"ND tired of being overshadowed by UConn

[meyers7]

I don't know about next year. Why is everyone so confident? I mean we're losing two All-Americans in Dolson and Hartley. Do we really think the team is going to be better off next year swapping out Dolson and Hartley for Stokes and Chong/Tuck/Banks (assuming Tuck is even available at the start of next season)? Dolson is probably the most versatile center we've ever had, and Hartley is in statistical categories with Moore and Taurasi. That's not going to be easy to replace.

Don't know if we'll be "better", but most likely good enough, barring injuries and such. Loosing Dolson and Hartley will be very hard to replace. Really we won't. However, having Stewart and Jefferson as Juniors, getting a healthy AA KML back, that trifecta right there will make it difficult for anyone to beat us. Add in, hopefully, Tuck, and then you only need a couple of the rest, Stokes, Chong, Banks, Williams, Ekmark, Nurse, Edwards, to be decent/serviceable, and we have a real good shot at another NC.

 

[meyers7]

They would, but Connecticut dumped them. I know this to be true because I heard it from their coach, and she couldn't say it on TV ESPN if it weren't true.

No you're confused, it's the Internet where it has to be true.

 

[Paul1969]

Notre Dame has a lot more pressure to win a NC than we do!

 

[HoopsFan21]

I agree with your basic premise but when you stated that "Hartley is in statistical categories with Moore and Taurasi" in the same sentence, almost as if they were equals, well, that's silly! Hartley has had an exceptional senior season after a pretty disastrous one last year and I and many others couldn't be happier but she is no where near the player that Diana and Maya are, if that's what you're suggesting.

I wasn't equating Hartley with those other two legends, no one may ever reach that lofty status, however, it would be silly to deny how good she has been during her career and to think Jefferson et al will just easily pick up the slack next year. I think she's top 10 all-time for scoring, and there are a couple of statistical categories (i.e. XXX number of points, XXX rebounds, and XXX assists for example) of which only Hartley, Moore, and Taurasi are a part that you always hear about during UConn telecasts. That was all I was saying.

 

[msf22b]

Don't know if we'll be "better", but most likely good enough, barring injuries and such. Loosing Dolson and Hartley will be very hard to replace. Really we won't. However, having Stewart and Jefferson as Juniors, getting a healthy AA KML back, that trifecta right there will make it difficult for anyone to beat us. Add in, hopefully, Tuck, and then you only need a couple of the rest, Stokes, Chong, Banks, Williams, Ekmark, Nurse, Edwards, to be decent/serviceable, and we have a real good shot at another NC.

I'm more optimistic than you Meyers.
I think next year we're going to be a juggernaut.

 

[hoopfan515]

I would love nothing more than both UCONN and Notre Dame make it to the title game. I predict a nail biter. As long as we can avoid any injuries or foul trouble, I believe any team other than Notre Dame is a sure thing for UCONN to win their 9th Championship. I still want to see Notre Dame, because I think it'll be a great game and good for WCB.
I am not sure what effect the crowd if any might have? Since the game is in TENN, I am sure the majority of the crowd will root for Notre Dame.

 

[meyers7]

I'm more optimistic than you Meyers.
I think next year we're going to be a juggernaut.

We're pretty juggernauty this year. I don't know if we'll be quite as good next year. Hard to lose 2 AA's and be better. But I am more than willing to be wrong.

 

[msf22b]

Next year (all things being equal)
A majority of the returnees will have won a National championship in every year they've competed.
Kaleena will be in full bloom
Morgan may very well be completely back
Hand-Grenade Kiah will be much improved
And the talent of the four recruits is frightening, even if one red-shirts.
I suggest that the team will be as much a defensive juggernaut as this season
And actually may exceed this year's group on offense.

 

[PacoSwede]

I would love nothing more than both UCONN and Notre Dame make it to the title game. I predict a nail biter. ... I think it'll be a great game and good for WCB.

Fine if it's a nail-biter, but what if such a NC matchup (which is not a given) is another blowout by the Huskies (as I and TonyC, at least, expect)? What effect would that have on WCG, do you think?

 

[bballnut90]

Duke-Carolina rivalry goes way beyond the winning percentage against the other. You cant compare UCONN-ND or UCONN-TN to it at all. Maybe if you dont live or never lived in this state, you wouldnt understand how deep it is. Just look at my avatar... and maybe you can get an idea.

Ask the ND fans who were at the ACC Tourney. they got to witness the rivalry at its best up close. Ask the same ND fans whose fans were behind them in full force during the title game.

I am aware of the magnitude of Duke-UNC and am not at all insinuating Duke-UNC any less of a rivalry because it has been in Duke's favor the last 15 years. I was making the point that if you're going to use those numbers for Connecticut-Notre Dame to claim it isn't a rivalry, then you can also use similar numbers to claim that Duke-UNC isn't one either which is completely ridiculous (just like how it's ridiculous to state than UCONN-Notre Dame isn't a rivalry.)

 

[semper]

If we play ND in the final, it will be a game, I think...not an utter blowout.

I just hope all our guys stay HEALTHY!!!

 

[AndyCT]

No one is claiming that it's a foregone conclusion that Notre Dame will win if UConn and Notre Dame play in the NC game this year.

Thanks for conceding that much – over here many of us hope that Connecticut would have at least a little chance of winning.

Notre Dame may be challanging Connecticut of late, but two competitive seasons do not make a rivalry. There are many things that go into becoming rivals; usually one is a history of many games – a tradition; and within that, a history of some close games – not necessarily by score but by competitiveness. In football, Army-Navy is a rivalry, while Navy – Notre Dame is just a painful tradition. In basketball, Duke – UNC is the rivalry, but Notre Dame – Connecticut is not, at least not yet.

Except for the last two seasons – well actually two of the last three seasons, since Connecticut ducked Notre Dame this year, Notre Dame has only occasionally been competitive. Looking back over the ten years prior to that, Notre Dame won just three of nineteen games, with all but one loss by double digits, so Notre Dame was far less competitive with Connecticut than say Rutgers (five wins), a team that usually is (or was?) considered a rival, or even North Carolina (three wins over only nine games). Even going back another year to the “Bird at the Buzzer” season, over eleven years and twenty-two games, Notre Dame only has five victories – better than most, but hardly competitive.

It’s only in the two seasons 2011-2013 that Notre Dame starts to enjoy “multiyear success”, but not as much as it might appear. In those two seasons, Notre Dame won six of eight – but those wins aren’t as clear cut as they seem. For example, three of those wins were in overtime – in other words, ties at the end of regulation. Of course, basketball doesn’t allow for ties and they play on until somebody does win, but for evaluation purposes, they were essentially ties and that would make the two-year record more like 3-2-3 instead of 6-2-0, if we’re evaluating competiveness or dominance. The two non-OT Notre Dame victories last year were by the slimmest of margins – a one point win with eight seconds left, when the best three point shooter in the country missed a three point shot; and a steal for a layup with 1.8 seconds left. Three points and less than ten seconds may have separated Connecticut from two wins instead of two losses.

But like “musical chairs” when the music stops, in basketball when the clock finally runs out there is a winner, and Notre dame does have six legitimate wins to Connecticut’s two; still for evaluation, it’s more like one clear win, two clear losses, and five essentially even games. It is certainly not a case of Notre Dame dominating Connecticut.

And since you asked, that’s one of the reasons we’re getting tired of Muffet’s shtick. When she says that Notre Dame has gotten pretty good at beating Connecticut, that’s not really true. When she says that Connecticut ducked Notre Dame this year, everyone knows that’s just plain not true. And when she says something like Kayla McBride is the best player in the country*, you just have to throw your arms up and walk away from the nonsense. Pretty much it’s reached the point that when she speaks I hold my left arm up to keep my wrist watch out of the rising b.s. level.

It's going to take more than two "competitive" seasons for Notre Dame to become a true rival; for now, they're just another big game.

• Love Kayla's game, the one player Kelly Faris could not shut down last year, one of the best players (plural) in the country, but certainly not the best player (singular).

 

[AndyCT]

Don't know if we'll be "better", but most likely good enough, barring injuries and such. Loosing Dolson and Hartley will be very hard to replace. Really we won't. However, having Stewart and Jefferson as Juniors, getting a healthy AA KML back, that trifecta right there will make it difficult for anyone to beat us. Add in, hopefully, Tuck, and then you only need a couple of the rest, Stokes, Chong, Banks, Williams, Ekmark, Nurse, Edwards, to be decent/serviceable, and we have a real good shot at another NC.

Dolson and Hartley are a big deal - Stefanie especially so because I can't see so much of the offense running through Kiah even if she does become more of a scorer. That puts more of a load on the guards and with Bria's reemergence, losing her is also going to hurt, in spite of Moriah's growth this year. That's a lot of the control and direction of the offense that UConn will have to replace; there's not going to be a lot of experience in running the offense next year, at least at the beginning.

Still as you said, with Moriah and Breanna, and a hopefully healthy Morgan and Kaleena, they should have a strong core to carry the team while the new players work their way in. The incoming players look to be really good, and every team has to go through this; they have done better than I expected in making up for the loss of the "basketball Swiss Army knife" this year and they will do fine next year in making up for the loss of a point guard and the "point center".

 

[baggerbob]

Dolson and Hartley are a big deal - Stefanie especially so because I can't see so much of the offense running through Kiah even if she does become more of a scorer. That puts more of a load on the guards and with Bria's reemergence, losing her is also going to hurt, in spite of Moriah's growth this year. That's a lot of the control and direction of the offense that UConn will have to replace; there's not going to be a lot of experience in running the offense next year, at least at the beginning.

Still as you said, with Moriah and Breanna, and a hopefully healthy Morgan and Kaleena, they should have a strong core to carry the team while the new players work their way in. The incoming players look to be really good, and every team has to go through this; they have done better than I expected in making up for the loss of the "basketball Swiss Army knife" this year and they will do fine next year in making up for the loss of a point guard and the "point center".

Next years offense runs through Moriah, and Stewie, which will cause many openings for the best shooter in the game KML. Stewie has almost as many assists as Stef with a few less turnovers, so you would expect Stewie in the high post , with Kiah down low. Stewie at the high post presents nightmares for opposing coaches, a true triple threat. The ability to knock down the jump shot, drive to the rim, or make a bounce pass to a cutter, or open shooter. Stewie also sets a good screen for Moriah, and her driving layups.

 

[doggydaddy]

I am aware of the magnitude of Duke-UNC and am not at all insinuating Duke-UNC any less of a rivalry because it has been in Duke's favor the last 15 years. I was making the point that if you're going to use those numbers for Connecticut-Notre Dame to claim it isn't a rivalry, then you can also use similar numbers to claim that Duke-UNC isn't one either which is completely ridiculous (just like how it's ridiculous to state than UCONN-Notre Dame isn't a rivalry.)

Well, I've been thinking about this.

ND-UConn WAS a rivalry. Now that they are not in the same conference, it's just a game between two really good teams. It's not the same when you don't play 2-3 times a season.

If UNC went to the Big Ten for example, the rivalry with Duke would not be the same either.

 

[doggydaddy]

Notre Dame has won the last 4 games vs. Tennessee, but that was after losing the first 20 games in the series. The last 4 games

2011: 73-59 @Dayton to advance to the FF to face UConn
2012: 72-44 @Notre Dame
2013: 77-67 @Tennessee
2014: 86-70 @Tennessee

No one is claiming that it's a foregone conclusion that Notre Dame will win if UConn and Notre Dame play in the NC game this year. Obviously past performance (regardless of the time period utilized) is not a predictor of future success. I think what bballnut is claiming is that it's not crazy to think the ND could beat UConn, as the Irish are one the few teams to ever have this kind of multiyear success against the Huskies. If you were to go back to the first UConn/ND game last season (2012-13 season), there were many of UConn fans predicting 20-point blowouts over the Irish in Storrs, as ND graduated 3 starters (Peters, Novosel, and Mallory) from the previous year. Yet Notre Dame won in a very close contest.

Muffet is one of the few coaches that seems to give Geno trouble. While it's true that UConn has completely dominated the series over its lifetime, Muffet has only recently been getting recruits near UConn's level. She had been trying to compete despite a significant recruiting disadvantage (which certainly fueled UConn's dominance), but now she is starting to reel in top 5 recruits, so she will soon be on a somewhat equal footing with Geno. I think it's reasonable to assume that UConn/Notre Dame is a rivalry now. Just reading some of these threads indicates a fairly large amount of hostility directed towards Notre Dame despite the fact that Notre Dame's WBB team has really done nothing to invoke this wrath.

One word. Diggins.

We will see this year if it was close to equal talent or just a player with extreme confidence and cockiness that allowed them to get into Geno and the players heads enough to pull out several close wins.

 

[connboy77]

I would love nothing more than both UCONN and Notre Dame make it to the title game. I predict a nail biter. As long as we can avoid any injuries or foul trouble, I believe any team other than Notre Dame is a sure thing for UCONN to win their 9th Championship. I still want to see Notre Dame, because I think it'll be a great game and good for WCB.
I am not sure what effect the crowd if any might have? Since the game is in TENN, I am sure the majority of the crowd will root for Notre Dame.

Unless Tennessee makes it to the final four I don't expect to many vol fans in the building.

 

[msf22b]

One word. Diggins.

Doggy:

I think it's more than one player.

I still think we win, perhaps big, but I can't ignore the sophomore leap of Loyd; perhaps next to Stewart, the most dangerous player in WCBB.

The continued excellence of McBride, who regularly tormented us, the fine play of Achonwa (even if slightly limited from a UConn perspective),

And the improvement in the bench, especially Mabrey, who i had liked in USA ball the summer before, but then struggled in her Freshman year (not unknown, even at UConn).

But predominately it is the ability of their big-mouth coach to find a way to get the most from her players.
Surely, virtually an equal to Geno's amazing season this year.

And, they will not be afraid.

 

[mhshuskies]

During that unhappy 7 losses in 8 games streak, the only evidence of "choking" I saw came from the Huskies, not ND. At the very least, two of those losses never should have occurred. I'd be more concerned about that than about how the Irish are dealing with being in UConn's shadow.

FWIW, I don't think it's at all surprising that they resent being in UConn's shadow. I was ticked in the early days when LV was getting all the media accolades and love. What's wrong with feeling that way?

And regarding the McBride quote: She was giving UConn credit. Pretty classy, I thought, and very far from 'whining.'

But Muppet was incorrect on one thing. They have not learned how to beat UCONN. They won some close games that could have gone either way with one different bounce of the ball. In the most recent game UCONN BEAT nd by being able to elevate their game. nd has never shown the ability to do that.

 

[doggydaddy]

Doggy:

I think it's more than one player.

I still think we win, perhaps big, but I can't ignore the sophomore leap of Loyd; perhaps next to Stewart, the most dangerous player in WCBB.

The continued excellence of McBride, who regularly tormented us, the fine play of Achonwa (even if slightly limited from a UConn perspective),

And the improvement in the bench, especially Mabrey, who i had liked in USA ball the summer before, but then struggled in her Freshman year (not unknown, even at UConn).

But predominately it is the ability of their big-mouth coach to find a way to get the most from her players.
Surely, virtually an equal to Geno's amazing season this year.

And, they will not be afraid.

If Uconn wins big, it makes my point.

We shall see.

 

[bballnut90]

But Muppet was incorrect on one thing. They have not learned how to beat UCONN. They won some close games that could have gone either way with one different bounce of the ball. In the most recent game UCONN BEAT nd by being able to elevate their game. nd has never shown the ability to do that.

That's just wrong.

In 2011, Notre Dame elevated their game and upset Connecticut despite Moore pouring in 36 points. They executed (52% Fg), controlled the glass (39-27 rebound advantage) and ended up winning by 9. UCONN didn't choke, Notre Dame outplayed them.

In 2012, Notre Dame won by 13 in Connecticut. Again, UCONN didn't choke, they were outplayed by Notre Dame.

Same thing in the national semifinals. UCONN didn't choke, Notre Dame made big plays down the stretch and in OT to win the game. No choking, UCONN was simply beat.

All 3 wins were close last year, but they did make the big plays down the stretch. Notre Dame executed well down the stretch in all 3 games and made huge plays in order to get the win. UCONN certainly gave Notre Dame opportunities to capitalize on, but the fact is, Notre Dame did execute and outplayed UCONN down the stretch.

 

[UConnCat]

UConn was actually the favorite according to the Vegas line. I believe it was around 3-4 points.

WCBB teams and coaches don't pay attention to the Vegas line. ND was the higher seed and most of the WCBB experts picked ND to win. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[baggerbob]

That's just wrong.

In 2011, Notre Dame elevated their game and upset Connecticut despite Moore pouring in 36 points. They executed (52% Fg), controlled the glass (39-27 rebound advantage) and ended up winning by 9. UCONN didn't choke, Notre Dame outplayed them.

In 2012, Notre Dame won by 13 in Connecticut. Again, UCONN didn't choke, they were outplayed by Notre Dame.

Same thing in the national semifinals. UCONN didn't choke, Notre Dame made big plays down the stretch and in OT to win the game. No choking, UCONN was simply beat.

All 3 wins were close last year, but they did make the big plays down the stretch. Notre Dame executed well down the stretch in all 3 games and made huge plays in order to get the win. UCONN certainly gave Notre Dame opportunities to capitalize on, but the fact is, Notre Dame did execute and outplayed UCONN down the stretch.

Yes in those first 3 games Notre Dame made the plays, the UConn players also missed opportunities in the closing stages to win. That was pre Stewie becoming herself, and having the confidence to be the go to player. Up until that semi-final game Stewie deferred to the other players on the team, Stef, Kelly, KML, Bria, to make the big plays. Kelly said it best after the final game talking about Stewie, she was asked how much the change in Stewie was a catalyst for the championship run. " That changed us a ton. I don't think people understand how much we needed her to get to this point. If we didn't have her, we wouldn't be here. And we all know that, and I hope she knows that." Notre Dame doesn't want to see this UConn team, with the defense they have, regardless of the other Notre Dame players, Stewie is still the best player on the floor, and they do remember how many layups, Stef, and Stewie either blocked or changed.

 

[Icebear]

ND is a full member of the ACC regarding voting on all conference matters. It gets a special arrangement in football, and cannot play for the ACC championship, but shares some bowl games.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Pastahusky98]

In my opinion, Notre Dame did, and still does, have a bit of an attitude problem. Last year in the final four, Stewie dominated on defense, and Notre Dame didn't get the calls that they wanted. What did they do? They pouted and lost the game by a hefty margin. This also showed when they had to play against a gritty Alyssa Thomas, and squeaked one out by 4 earlier this year. I've watched a few ND home games on TV, and the officiating can be very one sided at times. So, what's gonna happen when they may have to play Stewie again? I think more of the same.