"ND tired of being overshadowed by UConn

[bballnut90]

They've played each other for 20 years. ND has done well in two of those years and has been smacked around in the other 18. Sorry, that's not really a rivalry to me, especially when the two teams going forward will be lucky to play once a year. Duke-Carolina, that's a basketball rivalry. UConn-ND is a big game the same way 'Bama vs. any good team in CFB is a big game.

If Notre Dame-UCONN isn't a rivalry then there isn't a rivalry in women's basketball.

Also, about your example of Duke-UNC...since 1999, Duke is 25-12 against UNC. 15 year span, so a decent amount of time, and that's a .676 winning percentage in Duke's favor. Close to .725. Looking at those numbers, would you say Duke-UNC isn't a basketball rivalry because in the last 15 years Duke has won consistently?

 

[msf22b]

My guess is that Muffet will be dead before Notre Dame ever has the upper hand in the rivalry (if you can even call such a one-sided series a rivalry).

Notre Dame will be a formidable opponent, if we meet this season
They are the only team in recent years to defeat us often if not decisively.
I find talk such as the quote above silly and gratuitous.

 

[doggydaddy]

If you do that, then Tennessee and UCONN are equal in their rivalry:
UCONN's winning seasons against UT:
1995
2000
2002
2003
2004

Tennessee's winning seasons:
1998
1999
2005
2006
2007

Using this logic, you can even argue that Tennessee has been superior to UCONN since they won the NCAA tournament games in 1996 and 1997 which were more important than the regular season game they lost each year.

Tennessee has nothing to do with it. But since you brought them up, Uconn would have won the last 6 games if they played once a year.

Would have made it 19-9 in favor of Uconn.

Pat knew what was coming.

 

[Suebird10fan]

I don't know about next year. Why is everyone so confident? I mean we're losing two All-Americans in Dolson and Hartley. Do we really think the team is going to be better off next year swapping out Dolson and Hartley for Stokes and Chong/Tuck/Banks (assuming Tuck is even available at the start of next season)? Dolson is probably the most versatile center we've ever had, and Hartley is in statistical categories with Moore and Taurasi. That's not going to be easy to replace.

Well ... we'll have hands down the best player in the country. Add to that the best PG and, if KML returns to soph form, the best 3 in the country. And I expect three of the four freshmen to be in the rotation, so we should be deep. Call me crazy but that sounds really good to me.

 

[Suebird10fan]

Why confident next year? Because we will arguably have the best 1 in the nation, the best 3 in the nation, and the best 4 in the nation. If (and it's a big if) Tuck is anything like her potential, she's one of the top players in her class. Stokes is the best defensive 5 in the nation, and our starting 2 should be either Nurse or Chong. Our bench will be crazy deep and a far cry from the 6 deep we went this year in big games...

I totally agree with you about losing 2 AA's, but the rest of the team returning will be even more improved, and we add one of the very best recruiting classes in the nation, and possibly the best class of guards UCONN has ever recruited.

Guess I shd have read this before I replied!

 

[HoopsFan21]

If Notre Dame-UCONN isn't a rivalry then there isn't a rivalry in women's basketball.

Also, about your example of Duke-UNC...since 1999, Duke is 25-12 against UNC. 15 year span, so a decent amount of time, and that's a .676 winning percentage in Duke's favor. Close to .725. Looking at those numbers, would you say Duke-UNC isn't a basketball rivalry because in the last 15 years Duke has won consistently?

Duke and UNC have been playing each other since World War I, and the series overall is pretty close to even, maybe 20 wins either direction over the course of hundreds of games. That's why it's a great rivalry because both sides over the long haul have had equal chances of winning, not to mention their proximity to one another. UConn and ND are not even in the same time zone as each other, the series overall is pretty lopsided, never mind the fact that they don't even play in the same conference. I'm thinking long and hard about women's basketball "rivalries" and you're right, I'd have to say there really aren't any. There is no Duke-Carolina or Ohio State-Michigan type rivalries. Then again the sport has only been taken seriously for about 25 years, so perhaps one day we'll see real rivalries develop. With respect to UConn; who is their rival? Maybe Tennessee who has the same number of trophies in their case, but you can't really be a rival if the games between the two teams are the better part of a decade apart, though I'll admit for a decade or so there it had the makings of a pretty good rivalry.

 

[ThisJustIn]

Sometimes wins and losses don't make a rival - look at RU.

I appreciate the effort to split hairs so some UConn fans can ignore the wins ND earned.

But that doesn't make those loses any more painful.

But, eventually, UConn won the "big" one and ND didn't. The fact that ND didn't eases the sting for some.

Yet they still claim it's not a rivalry. OIy.

 

[Alydar]

Notre Dame has also lost 7 of their last 9 against Tenn so if they make it to the FF can we just forget about playing the Irish in the NC game? I mean if it's such a relevant statistic it must apply universally, right?

 

[Fightin Choke]

Notre Dame has also lost 7 of their last 9 against Tenn so if they make it to the FF can we just forget about playing the Irish in the NC game? I mean if it's such a relevant statistic it must apply universally, right?

Notre Dame has won the last 4 games vs. Tennessee, but that was after losing the first 20 games in the series. The last 4 games

2011: 73-59 @Dayton to advance to the FF to face UConn
2012: 72-44 @Notre Dame
2013: 77-67 @Tennessee
2014: 86-70 @Tennessee

No one is claiming that it's a foregone conclusion that Notre Dame will win if UConn and Notre Dame play in the NC game this year. Obviously past performance (regardless of the time period utilized) is not a predictor of future success. I think what bballnut is claiming is that it's not crazy to think the ND could beat UConn, as the Irish are one the few teams to ever have this kind of multiyear success against the Huskies. If you were to go back to the first UConn/ND game last season (2012-13 season), there were many of UConn fans predicting 20-point blowouts over the Irish in Storrs, as ND graduated 3 starters (Peters, Novosel, and Mallory) from the previous year. Yet Notre Dame won in a very close contest.

Muffet is one of the few coaches that seems to give Geno trouble. While it's true that UConn has completely dominated the series over its lifetime, Muffet has only recently been getting recruits near UConn's level. She had been trying to compete despite a significant recruiting disadvantage (which certainly fueled UConn's dominance), but now she is starting to reel in top 5 recruits, so she will soon be on a somewhat equal footing with Geno. I think it's reasonable to assume that UConn/Notre Dame is a rivalry now. Just reading some of these threads indicates a fairly large amount of hostility directed towards Notre Dame despite the fact that Notre Dame's WBB team has really done nothing to invoke this wrath.

 

[Fightin Choke]

'I think we're always going to be the underdog when it comes to Connecticut. They're such a great powerhouse and have such a great program over there,'' guard Kayla McBride said. ''But I think it's just a bit of extra motivation.''

Which team was considered the underdog in last year's Final Four game?

UConn was actually the favorite according to the Vegas line. I believe it was around 3-4 points.

 

[calpedaler]

UConn was actually the favorite according to the Vegas line. I believe it was around 3-4 points.

But I seriously doubt that the ND players felt that they were the underdogs in the semis last year.

 

[triaddukefan]

If Notre Dame-UCONN isn't a rivalry then there isn't a rivalry in women's basketball.

Also, about your example of Duke-UNC...since 1999, Duke is 25-12 against UNC. 15 year span, so a decent amount of time, and that's a .676 winning percentage in Duke's favor. Close to .725. Looking at those numbers, would you say Duke-UNC isn't a basketball rivalry because in the last 15 years Duke has won consistently?

Duke-Carolina rivalry goes way beyond the winning percentage against the other. You cant compare UCONN-ND or UCONN-TN to it at all. Maybe if you dont live or never lived in this state, you wouldnt understand how deep it is. Just look at my avatar... and maybe you can get an idea.

Ask the ND fans who were at the ACC Tourney...... they got to witness the rivalry at its best up close. Ask the same ND fans whose fans were behind them in full force during the title game.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Guess we better hope to head to the B1G because I don't think ND will be voting for us to join the ACC.

I'm curious, does Notre Dame have a vote in that sort of thing since they're only a part-time ACC member. I think you have to be in all sports in order to have the opportunity to vote in any of those type things. I suppose that even if they didn't get a vote, they could try and use their influence to sway other presidents to nix the Huskies joining the ACC!

 

[Buzzyboy]

Duke-Carolina rivalry goes way beyond the winning percentage against the other. You cant compare UCONN-ND or UCONN-TN to it at all. Maybe if you dont live or never lived in this state, you wouldnt understand how deep it is. Just look at my avatar... and maybe you can get an idea.

Ask the ND fans who were at the ACC Tourney. they got to witness the rivalry at its best up close. Ask the same ND fans whose fans were behind them in full force during the title game.

I don't think there's anything in Duke, North Carolina that comes close to Ohio State vs. Michigan in football. There is so much more interest in college football than there is in college basketball that it's not even on the same planet. Every human being that I've ever met from Ohio or Michigan is so entrenched in the rivalry that I was shocked. I've met a number of people from North Carolina that are very ho hum about either Duke or North Carolina in ANY sport. They have absolutely no interest. Unless I've met the only human beings from North Carolina that don't know or care about those universities, I don't think your case is that compelling. I do know there is a big interest but as I said, it isn't comparable to that of either the Ohio crowd or Michigan crowd. In talking of fan interest across the country though, if it pertains to women's basketball, they would be much more inclined to watch UConn/Notre Dame or UConn/Tennessee than a Duke/ North Carolina game. The interest in your rivalry is between your borders and nothing close to the national event of the aforementioned games.

 

[Alydar]

Notre Dame has won the last 4 games vs. Tennessee, but that was after losing the first 20 games in the series. The last 4 games

2011: 73-59 @Dayton to advance to the FF to face UConn
2012: 72-44 @Notre Dame
2013: 77-67 @Tennessee
2014: 86-70 @Tennessee

No one is claiming that it's a foregone conclusion that Notre Dame will win if UConn and Notre Dame play in the NC game this year. Obviously past performance (regardless of the time period utilized) is not a predictor of future success. I think what bballnut is claiming is that it's not crazy to think the ND could beat UConn, as the Irish are one the few teams to ever have this kind of multiyear success against the Huskies. If you were to go back to the first UConn/ND game last season (2012-13 season), there were many of UConn fans predicting 20-point blowouts over the Irish in Storrs, as ND graduated 3 starters (Peters, Novosel, and Mallory) from the previous year. Yet Notre Dame won in a very close contest.

Muffet is one of the few coaches that seems to give Geno trouble. While it's true that UConn has completely dominated the series over its lifetime, Muffet has only recently been getting recruits near UConn's level. She had been trying to compete despite a significant recruiting disadvantage (which certainly fueled UConn's dominance), but now she is starting to reel in top 5 recruits, so she will soon be on a somewhat equal footing with Geno. I think it's reasonable to assume that UConn/Notre Dame is a rivalry now. Just reading some of these threads indicates a fairly large amount of hostility directed towards Notre Dame despite the fact that Notre Dame's WBB team has really done nothing to invoke this wrath.

Sorry I got the record wrong. Could swear that I heard that last year was Notre Dame's 1st win against the LV's. Maybe it's reg season games. Or at TBA.

I agree that Notre Dame can win. But like you, I also deal with Irish fans that think that the committee cheated by not sending UConn to Louisville while thinking that letting Notre Dame play at home gives them no advantage and is fair and just.

But the Irish are far from the first team to have success against CT. From 96-98 Tenn had UConn's number and also beat us with Parker. In the mid 2000's Rutgers beat UConn. And Stanford has done UConn in more than once in a big game. They all had their day but after a few years they all slid back. Now it's Notre Dame. I think they will continue to be strong. MM must have found a recruiting secret. Great! I thought the games last year were the best wcbb games I saw in years.

In fact, let UConn in the ACC, tell the NCAA to keep their tournament and have an ACC playoff like the NBA. Best of 5 quarters and semis then 7 game finals. UConn, Notre Dame, Louisville, Duke, UNC and a couple of others would be better than what we have now.

 

[Buzzyboy]

When you have a lineup like UConn does this season and next season its very hard for me to see them losing. Everything that could go wrong this season has with injuries and sickness and even a little foul trouble and no team can compete with UConn let alone beat them. It aint even close. ND is the best of the rest but if they face UConn it will be a humiliating embarrassment. You wont see the flops if we play ND this season. So long as UConn is healthy UConn will beat everyteam including ND by 20+.

The big build up will be ND UConn in the final or Tenn UConn in the Final or Louisville UConn in another rematch in the Final but in the end it will be UConn winning number 9 in Nashville Tenn and it doesnt get any better then that.

Tony, I love you and of course, your enthusiasm but I do want you to reconsider beating "every team including ND by 20+), considering that we played a few teams this year that we beat by less than 20 points. Maybe not much less, but less and we even had an 11 point win against Baylor so your boast is maybe a little over the top. I can't think of any scenario where we don't win but I, myself, wouldn't guarantee 20+ wins as we advance.

 

[Buzzyboy]

However irksome Muffet's comments may be to some of us, she is merely echoing the motivational tools that Geno used back in the day when UConn was very good but frustrated by the vast attention then showered on Tennessee by a seemingly worshipful media.

Muffet is playing the "underdog card" for all it is worth to motivate her team and stimulate their fans to salivate over the propect of becoming victorious David vs. those big meanies, the UConn Goliath.

Meanwhile, Geno not only has his own well honed motivational techniques, he applies them [now quoting Mark Twain] "with the serene confidence which a Christian feels in four aces."

Maybe Notre Dame would have had even more attention showered on them if when they had gotten past the Huskies and played in the title game, they managed to win. Their issues are with themselves, not with the Huskies. That old expression, you can't win the BIG ONE! The only national championship that they have is the one where they played an injury depleted UConn team(losing two All-Americans) that blew a big half time lead to get them to the title game and then managed to win that one. In the years following that, Notre Dame acts like they weren't getting any talent! I can't imagine too many universities more highly respected educationally and they can't get talented women's basketball players to attend their university???? That's bull! They just weren't good enough to get over the hump. Geno had much more serious issues for the first how many years at UConn when first and foremost, the facilities sucked. Secondly they hadn't had a winning season in forever and thirdly, UConn was considered a regional school, not a national one. Geno sucked it up and gradually (okay, maybe not so gradually) got them to become a national power. Someone wrote that poor Muffett couldn't get top players to come to Notre Dame until recently and so that's why she hasn't been able to compete before with the Huskies. What bullc**p! She's had tools from the get go that Geno would have died for when he first came to Storrs and yet we hear that whining about "no one wants to come play for me" crap?????? Shameful!

 

[HoopsFan21]

Notre Dame has played 8 great games against UConn during two seasons from 2011-2013. Sorry, but that does not constitute a rivalry. A lot of the animosity towards ND has very little to do with their women's basketball program, and certainly is not unique to UConn fans. I don't feel any differently about ND than I do about say Louisville or Duke or Stanford. It's just another strong opponent on the schedule that you may see multiple times in one season. If ND fans want to make it into a rivalry, have at it, but ND is tradition rich, and most of their fans realize what a real rivalry is and that it is not created overnight.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I don't know about next year. Why is everyone so confident? I mean we're losing two All-Americans in Dolson and Hartley. Do we really think the team is going to be better off next year swapping out Dolson and Hartley for Stokes and Chong/Tuck/Banks (assuming Tuck is even available at the start of next season)? Dolson is probably the most versatile center we've ever had, and Hartley is in statistical categories with Moore and Taurasi. That's not going to be easy to replace.

I agree with your basic premise but when you stated that "Hartley is in statistical categories with Moore and Taurasi" in the same sentence, almost as if they were equals, well, that's silly! Hartley has had an exceptional senior season after a pretty disastrous one last year and I and many others couldn't be happier but she is no where near the player that Diana and Maya are, if that's what you're suggesting. I agree the loss of Stef Dolson, in particular, is going to be very difficult to overcome next year but they are getting a really good recruiting class. As for our team, I think Morgan will be back better than ever and KML will be healthy and Kia is only going to get better. That leaves Breanna and unless there's some sort of health issue, she's going to be a monster. She's going to be stronger and even better, which is hard to believe. I'm confident that with the excellent recruiting class (which may even include A'ja)the depth of talent will come in handy too, at least early on. It sounds as if Kia Nurse is going to come in ready to contribute right away with all the experience she's getting on the Canadian nation team and that she's phenomenal. Later in the season, based on who's playing well, Geno will probably cut back to using seven, maybe eight players. I'm inclined to think that just about all the better teams are going to lose talent as well with the possible exception of North Carolina who should be pretty formidable. Again, having Breanna makes a massive difference. Remember how Diana elevated the play of everyone else in her junior and senior years to give the Huskies titles??? I'm pretty confident we can expect Breanna to do likewise, with a much better supporting cast than Diana had.

 

[Buzzyboy]

You include that win because it further supports the fact that Notre Dame had the upperhand for 2 full years in the series. They had won 7 of their last 8, including 3 wins in Connecticut and two in the Final Four. Furthermore, Notre Dame DID have UCONNs number (which you stated: I grew so tired of the proclamations that ND had won seven of the last eight against us and thus had our number.)

Saying Notre Dame didn't have UCONN's number is like saying UCONN didn't have Tennessee's number in the early 2000s when UCONN went 8-1 over a 9 game stretch against Tennessee. Can it change? Absolutely. Again, look at UCONN-Tennessee..after Tennessee went 1-8, they went on to win the next three games and gain the upper hand. Just because Notre Dame did have UCONN's number doesn't mean UCONN can't gain the upper hand in the rivalry going forward.

You are actually distorting reality a little bit because when you compare the UConn-Tennessee mark to the recent history of UConn-Notre Dame, it's not a fair comparison. The UConn-Tennessee mark was over a number of years, 5 or possible 6 while 6 of the 7 Notre Dame wins were in two seasons. UConn "dominated" Tennessee over a far longer time with both teams having an ever changing lineup while the core of the Notre Dame team that dominated UConn was Skylar Duggins and their two senior stars from this year. Not nearly as impressive and even then, Notre Dame couldn't win the big win. That wasn't the case in the years of UConn's dominance of Tennessee.

 

[bballnut90]

Notre Dame has played 8 great games against UConn during two seasons from 2011-2013. Sorry, but that does not constitute a rivalry. A lot of the animosity towards ND has very little to do with their women's basketball program, and certainly is not unique to UConn fans. I don't feel any differently about ND than I do about say Louisville or Duke or Stanford. It's just another strong opponent on the schedule that you may see multiple times in one season. If ND fans want to make it into a rivalry, have at it, but ND is tradition rich, and most of their fans realize what a real rivalry is and that it is not created overnight.

Can you give me a couple examples of rivalries in women's basketball?

 

[triaddukefan]

I don't think there's anything in Duke, North Carolina that comes close to Ohio State vs. Michigan in football. There is so much more interest in college football than there is in college basketball that it's not even on the same planet.

Depends on the state...... there is much more interest in college basketball in North Carolina than there is in college football. Plus (in my opinion), the best and most intense rivalries are those in-state ones. (Bama-Auburn @ the top of the list) How often do you Connecticut residents cross paths with a Notre Dame or Tennessee WCBB fan ? The insults, and jabs are cyber battles.... fought over the internet... not face to face at the local Exxon. On the average day, what are the odds of a person living in Dayton, or Kalamazoo running into a Michigan or a Ohio State FB fan at the grocery store, or in Walmart... or in church ?

Every human being that I've ever met from Ohio or Michigan is so entrenched in the rivalry that I was shocked. I've met a number of people from North Carolina that are very ho hum about either Duke or North Carolina in ANY sport. They have absolutely no interest. Unless I've met the only human beings from North Carolina that don't know or care about those universities, I don't think your case is that compelling.
I do know there is a big interest but as I said, it isn't comparable to that of either the Ohio crowd or Michigan crowd

I think you need a bigger sample size

In talking of fan interest across the country though, if it pertains to women's basketball, they would be much more inclined to watch UConn/Notre Dame or UConn/Tennessee than a Duke/ North Carolina game. The interest in your rivalry is between your borders and nothing close to the national event of the aforementioned games.

Not sure I would call those games national events.... but yes... there would definitely be a greater audience for a UCONN/ND or UCONN/TN game than any other combination. Actually if it happens to be UCONN vs anyone else.... or Notre Dame vs anyone else..... it would be highly unlikely that I would make an effort to watch. Although I call myself a WCBB fan....... I've only watched 2 championship games in the past 15 years (2006 and 2011). I would definitely watch either of those two possible matchups...... I just wished that UCONN and TN were on the same side of the bracket.

 

[Sonny44]

What matters in all this is what is good for the game. In the next couple of years, both are going to be very very strong, and so the rivalry will continue, and that's just great for WCBB.

Good point semper. We should cherish the Notre Dame girls, for they are the only team that can validate UCONN's greatness. Beating the cxxp out of all the other pretenders means nothing.

 

[Icebear]

I'm curious, does Notre Dame have a vote in that sort of thing since they're only a part-time ACC member. I think you have to be in all sports in order to have the opportunity to vote in any of those type things. I suppose that even if they didn't get a vote, they could try and use their influence to sway other presidents to nix the Huskies joining the ACC!

Hadn't thought of that and honestly do not know the answer to that.

 

[TRest]

Hadn't thought of that and honestly do not know the answer to that.

ND is a full member of the ACC regarding voting on all conference matters. It gets a special arrangement in football, and cannot play for the ACC championship, but shares some bowl games.