"ND tired of being overshadowed by UConn | Page 4 | The Boneyard

"ND tired of being overshadowed by UConn

Status
Not open for further replies.
When you have a lineup like UConn does this season and next season its very hard for me to see them losing. Everything that could go wrong this season has with injuries and sickness and even a little foul trouble and no team can compete with UConn let alone beat them. It aint even close. ND is the best of the rest but if they face UConn it will be a humiliating embarrassment. You wont see the flops if we play ND this season. So long as UConn is healthy UConn will beat everyteam including ND by 20+.

The big build up will be ND UConn in the final or Tenn UConn in the Final or Louisville UConn in another rematch in the Final but in the end it will be UConn winning number 9 in Nashville Tenn and it doesnt get any better then that.
Tony, I love you and of course, your enthusiasm but I do want you to reconsider beating "every team including ND by 20+), considering that we played a few teams this year that we beat by less than 20 points. Maybe not much less, but less and we even had an 11 point win against Baylor so your boast is maybe a little over the top. I can't think of any scenario where we don't win but I, myself, wouldn't guarantee 20+ wins as we advance.
 
However irksome Muffet's comments may be to some of us, she is merely echoing the motivational tools that Geno used back in the day when UConn was very good but frustrated by the vast attention then showered on Tennessee by a seemingly worshipful media.

Muffet is playing the "underdog card" for all it is worth to motivate her team and stimulate their fans to salivate over the propect of becoming victorious David vs. those big meanies, the UConn Goliath.

Meanwhile, Geno not only has his own well honed motivational techniques, he applies them [now quoting Mark Twain] "with the serene confidence which a Christian feels in four aces."
Maybe Notre Dame would have had even more attention showered on them if when they had gotten past the Huskies and played in the title game, they managed to win. Their issues are with themselves, not with the Huskies. That old expression, you can't win the BIG ONE! The only national championship that they have is the one where they played an injury depleted UConn team(losing two All-Americans) that blew a big half time lead to get them to the title game and then managed to win that one. In the years following that, Notre Dame acts like they weren't getting any talent! I can't imagine too many universities more highly respected educationally and they can't get talented women's basketball players to attend their university???? That's bull! They just weren't good enough to get over the hump. Geno had much more serious issues for the first how many years at UConn when first and foremost, the facilities sucked. Secondly they hadn't had a winning season in forever and thirdly, UConn was considered a regional school, not a national one. Geno sucked it up and gradually (okay, maybe not so gradually) got them to become a national power. Someone wrote that poor Muffett couldn't get top players to come to Notre Dame until recently and so that's why she hasn't been able to compete before with the Huskies. What bullc**p! She's had tools from the get go that Geno would have died for when he first came to Storrs and yet we hear that whining about "no one wants to come play for me" crap?????? Shameful!
 
Notre Dame has played 8 great games against UConn during two seasons from 2011-2013. Sorry, but that does not constitute a rivalry. A lot of the animosity towards ND has very little to do with their women's basketball program, and certainly is not unique to UConn fans. I don't feel any differently about ND than I do about say Louisville or Duke or Stanford. It's just another strong opponent on the schedule that you may see multiple times in one season. If ND fans want to make it into a rivalry, have at it, but ND is tradition rich, and most of their fans realize what a real rivalry is and that it is not created overnight.
 
I don't know about next year. Why is everyone so confident? I mean we're losing two All-Americans in Dolson and Hartley. Do we really think the team is going to be better off next year swapping out Dolson and Hartley for Stokes and Chong/Tuck/Banks (assuming Tuck is even available at the start of next season)? Dolson is probably the most versatile center we've ever had, and Hartley is in statistical categories with Moore and Taurasi. That's not going to be easy to replace.
I agree with your basic premise but when you stated that "Hartley is in statistical categories with Moore and Taurasi" in the same sentence, almost as if they were equals, well, that's silly! Hartley has had an exceptional senior season after a pretty disastrous one last year and I and many others couldn't be happier but she is no where near the player that Diana and Maya are, if that's what you're suggesting. I agree the loss of Stef Dolson, in particular, is going to be very difficult to overcome next year but they are getting a really good recruiting class. As for our team, I think Morgan will be back better than ever and KML will be healthy and Kia is only going to get better. That leaves Breanna and unless there's some sort of health issue, she's going to be a monster. She's going to be stronger and even better, which is hard to believe. I'm confident that with the excellent recruiting class (which may even include A'ja)the depth of talent will come in handy too, at least early on. It sounds as if Kia Nurse is going to come in ready to contribute right away with all the experience she's getting on the Canadian nation team and that she's phenomenal. Later in the season, based on who's playing well, Geno will probably cut back to using seven, maybe eight players. I'm inclined to think that just about all the better teams are going to lose talent as well with the possible exception of North Carolina who should be pretty formidable. Again, having Breanna makes a massive difference. Remember how Diana elevated the play of everyone else in her junior and senior years to give the Huskies titles??? I'm pretty confident we can expect Breanna to do likewise, with a much better supporting cast than Diana had.
 
You include that win because it further supports the fact that Notre Dame had the upperhand for 2 full years in the series. They had won 7 of their last 8, including 3 wins in Connecticut and two in the Final Four. Furthermore, Notre Dame DID have UCONNs number (which you stated: I grew so tired of the proclamations that ND had won seven of the last eight against us and thus had our number.)

Saying Notre Dame didn't have UCONN's number is like saying UCONN didn't have Tennessee's number in the early 2000s when UCONN went 8-1 over a 9 game stretch against Tennessee. Can it change? Absolutely. Again, look at UCONN-Tennessee..after Tennessee went 1-8, they went on to win the next three games and gain the upper hand. Just because Notre Dame did have UCONN's number doesn't mean UCONN can't gain the upper hand in the rivalry going forward.
You are actually distorting reality a little bit because when you compare the UConn-Tennessee mark to the recent history of UConn-Notre Dame, it's not a fair comparison. The UConn-Tennessee mark was over a number of years, 5 or possible 6 while 6 of the 7 Notre Dame wins were in two seasons. UConn "dominated" Tennessee over a far longer time with both teams having an ever changing lineup while the core of the Notre Dame team that dominated UConn was Skylar Duggins and their two senior stars from this year. Not nearly as impressive and even then, Notre Dame couldn't win the big win. That wasn't the case in the years of UConn's dominance of Tennessee.
 
Notre Dame has played 8 great games against UConn during two seasons from 2011-2013. Sorry, but that does not constitute a rivalry. A lot of the animosity towards ND has very little to do with their women's basketball program, and certainly is not unique to UConn fans. I don't feel any differently about ND than I do about say Louisville or Duke or Stanford. It's just another strong opponent on the schedule that you may see multiple times in one season. If ND fans want to make it into a rivalry, have at it, but ND is tradition rich, and most of their fans realize what a real rivalry is and that it is not created overnight.


Can you give me a couple examples of rivalries in women's basketball?
 
.-.
I don't think there's anything in Duke, North Carolina that comes close to Ohio State vs. Michigan in football. There is so much more interest in college football than there is in college basketball that it's not even on the same planet.

Depends on the state...... there is much more interest in college basketball in North Carolina than there is in college football. Plus (in my opinion), the best and most intense rivalries are those in-state ones. (Bama-Auburn @ the top of the list) How often do you Connecticut residents cross paths with a Notre Dame or Tennessee WCBB fan ? The insults, and jabs are cyber battles.... fought over the internet... not face to face at the local Exxon. On the average day, what are the odds of a person living in Dayton, or Kalamazoo running into a Michigan or a Ohio State FB fan at the grocery store, or in Walmart... or in church ?

Every human being that I've ever met from Ohio or Michigan is so entrenched in the rivalry that I was shocked. I've met a number of people from North Carolina that are very ho hum about either Duke or North Carolina in ANY sport. They have absolutely no interest. Unless I've met the only human beings from North Carolina that don't know or care about those universities, I don't think your case is that compelling.
I do know there is a big interest but as I said, it isn't comparable to that of either the Ohio crowd or Michigan crowd


I think you need a bigger sample size ;)


In talking of fan interest across the country though, if it pertains to women's basketball, they would be much more inclined to watch UConn/Notre Dame or UConn/Tennessee than a Duke/ North Carolina game. The interest in your rivalry is between your borders and nothing close to the national event of the aforementioned games.

Not sure I would call those games national events.... but yes... there would definitely be a greater audience for a UCONN/ND or UCONN/TN game than any other combination. Actually if it happens to be UCONN vs anyone else.... or Notre Dame vs anyone else..... it would be highly unlikely that I would make an effort to watch. Although I call myself a WCBB fan....... I've only watched 2 championship games in the past 15 years (2006 and 2011). I would definitely watch either of those two possible matchups...... I just wished that UCONN and TN were on the same side of the bracket.
 
What matters in all this is what is good for the game. In the next couple of years, both are going to be very very strong, and so the rivalry will continue, and that's just great for WCBB.

Good point semper. We should cherish the Notre Dame girls, for they are the only team that can validate UCONN's greatness. Beating the cxxp out of all the other pretenders means nothing.
 
I'm curious, does Notre Dame have a vote in that sort of thing since they're only a part-time ACC member. I think you have to be in all sports in order to have the opportunity to vote in any of those type things. I suppose that even if they didn't get a vote, they could try and use their influence to sway other presidents to nix the Huskies joining the ACC!
Hadn't thought of that and honestly do not know the answer to that.
 
Hadn't thought of that and honestly do not know the answer to that.
ND is a full member of the ACC regarding voting on all conference matters. It gets a special arrangement in football, and cannot play for the ACC championship, but shares some bowl games.
 
I don't know about next year. Why is everyone so confident? I mean we're losing two All-Americans in Dolson and Hartley. Do we really think the team is going to be better off next year swapping out Dolson and Hartley for Stokes and Chong/Tuck/Banks (assuming Tuck is even available at the start of next season)? Dolson is probably the most versatile center we've ever had, and Hartley is in statistical categories with Moore and Taurasi. That's not going to be easy to replace.
Don't know if we'll be "better", but most likely good enough, barring injuries and such. Loosing Dolson and Hartley will be very hard to replace. Really we won't. However, having Stewart and Jefferson as Juniors, getting a healthy AA KML back, that trifecta right there will make it difficult for anyone to beat us. Add in, hopefully, Tuck, and then you only need a couple of the rest, Stokes, Chong, Banks, Williams, Ekmark, Nurse, Edwards, to be decent/serviceable, and we have a real good shot at another NC.
 
They would, but Connecticut dumped them. I know this to be true because I heard it from their coach, and she couldn't say it on TV ESPN if it weren't true.
No you're confused, it's the Internet where it has to be true. :cool:
 
.-.
I agree with your basic premise but when you stated that "Hartley is in statistical categories with Moore and Taurasi" in the same sentence, almost as if they were equals, well, that's silly! Hartley has had an exceptional senior season after a pretty disastrous one last year and I and many others couldn't be happier but she is no where near the player that Diana and Maya are, if that's what you're suggesting.
I wasn't equating Hartley with those other two legends, no one may ever reach that lofty status, however, it would be silly to deny how good she has been during her career and to think Jefferson et al will just easily pick up the slack next year. I think she's top 10 all-time for scoring, and there are a couple of statistical categories (i.e. XXX number of points, XXX rebounds, and XXX assists for example) of which only Hartley, Moore, and Taurasi are a part that you always hear about during UConn telecasts. That was all I was saying.
 
Don't know if we'll be "better", but most likely good enough, barring injuries and such. Loosing Dolson and Hartley will be very hard to replace. Really we won't. However, having Stewart and Jefferson as Juniors, getting a healthy AA KML back, that trifecta right there will make it difficult for anyone to beat us. Add in, hopefully, Tuck, and then you only need a couple of the rest, Stokes, Chong, Banks, Williams, Ekmark, Nurse, Edwards, to be decent/serviceable, and we have a real good shot at another NC.

I'm more optimistic than you Meyers.
I think next year we're going to be a juggernaut.
 
I would love nothing more than both UCONN and Notre Dame make it to the title game. I predict a nail biter. As long as we can avoid any injuries or foul trouble, I believe any team other than Notre Dame is a sure thing for UCONN to win their 9th Championship. I still want to see Notre Dame, because I think it'll be a great game and good for WCB.
I am not sure what effect the crowd if any might have? Since the game is in TENN, I am sure the majority of the crowd will root for Notre Dame.
 
I'm more optimistic than you Meyers.
I think next year we're going to be a juggernaut.
We're pretty juggernauty this year. I don't know if we'll be quite as good next year. Hard to lose 2 AA's and be better. But I am more than willing to be wrong.
 
Next year (all things being equal)
A majority of the returnees will have won a National championship in every year they've competed.
Kaleena will be in full bloom
Morgan may very well be completely back
Hand-Grenade Kiah will be much improved
And the talent of the four recruits is frightening, even if one red-shirts.
I suggest that the team will be as much a defensive juggernaut as this season
And actually may exceed this year's group on offense.
 
.-.
I would love nothing more than both UCONN and Notre Dame make it to the title game. I predict a nail biter. ... I think it'll be a great game and good for WCB.

Fine if it's a nail-biter, but what if such a NC matchup (which is not a given) is another blowout by the Huskies (as I and TonyC, at least, expect)? What effect would that have on WCG, do you think?
 
Duke-Carolina rivalry goes way beyond the winning percentage against the other. You cant compare UCONN-ND or UCONN-TN to it at all. Maybe if you dont live or never lived in this state, you wouldnt understand how deep it is. Just look at my avatar... and maybe you can get an idea. :D

Ask the ND fans who were at the ACC Tourney. they got to witness the rivalry at its best up close. Ask the same ND fans whose fans were behind them in full force during the title game.

I am aware of the magnitude of Duke-UNC and am not at all insinuating Duke-UNC any less of a rivalry because it has been in Duke's favor the last 15 years. I was making the point that if you're going to use those numbers for Connecticut-Notre Dame to claim it isn't a rivalry, then you can also use similar numbers to claim that Duke-UNC isn't one either which is completely ridiculous (just like how it's ridiculous to state than UCONN-Notre Dame isn't a rivalry.)
 
If we play ND in the final, it will be a game, I think...not an utter blowout.

I just hope all our guys stay HEALTHY!!!
 
No one is claiming that it's a foregone conclusion that Notre Dame will win if UConn and Notre Dame play in the NC game this year.
Thanks for conceding that much – over here many of us hope that Connecticut would have at least a little chance of winning.;)

Notre Dame may be challanging Connecticut of late, but two competitive seasons do not make a rivalry. There are many things that go into becoming rivals; usually one is a history of many games – a tradition; and within that, a history of some close games – not necessarily by score but by competitiveness. In football, Army-Navy is a rivalry, while Navy – Notre Dame is just a painful tradition. In basketball, Duke – UNC is the rivalry, but Notre Dame – Connecticut is not, at least not yet.

Except for the last two seasons – well actually two of the last three seasons, since Connecticut ducked Notre Dame this year, Notre Dame has only occasionally been competitive. Looking back over the ten years prior to that, Notre Dame won just three of nineteen games, with all but one loss by double digits, so Notre Dame was far less competitive with Connecticut than say Rutgers (five wins), a team that usually is (or was?) considered a rival, or even North Carolina (three wins over only nine games). Even going back another year to the “Bird at the Buzzer” season, over eleven years and twenty-two games, Notre Dame only has five victories – better than most, but hardly competitive.

It’s only in the two seasons 2011-2013 that Notre Dame starts to enjoy “multiyear success”, but not as much as it might appear. In those two seasons, Notre Dame won six of eight – but those wins aren’t as clear cut as they seem. For example, three of those wins were in overtime – in other words, ties at the end of regulation. Of course, basketball doesn’t allow for ties and they play on until somebody does win, but for evaluation purposes, they were essentially ties and that would make the two-year record more like 3-2-3 instead of 6-2-0, if we’re evaluating competiveness or dominance. The two non-OT Notre Dame victories last year were by the slimmest of margins – a one point win with eight seconds left, when the best three point shooter in the country missed a three point shot; and a steal for a layup with 1.8 seconds left. Three points and less than ten seconds may have separated Connecticut from two wins instead of two losses.

But like “musical chairs” when the music stops, in basketball when the clock finally runs out there is a winner, and Notre dame does have six legitimate wins to Connecticut’s two; still for evaluation, it’s more like one clear win, two clear losses, and five essentially even games. It is certainly not a case of Notre Dame dominating Connecticut.

And since you asked, that’s one of the reasons we’re getting tired of Muffet’s shtick. When she says that Notre Dame has gotten pretty good at beating Connecticut, that’s not really true. When she says that Connecticut ducked Notre Dame this year, everyone knows that’s just plain not true. And when she says something like Kayla McBride is the best player in the country*, you just have to throw your arms up and walk away from the nonsense. Pretty much it’s reached the point that when she speaks I hold my left arm up to keep my wrist watch out of the rising b.s. level.

It's going to take more than two "competitive" seasons for Notre Dame to become a true rival; for now, they're just another big game.


  • Love Kayla's game, the one player Kelly Faris could not shut down last year, one of the best players (plural) in the country, but certainly not the best player (singular).
 
Don't know if we'll be "better", but most likely good enough, barring injuries and such. Loosing Dolson and Hartley will be very hard to replace. Really we won't. However, having Stewart and Jefferson as Juniors, getting a healthy AA KML back, that trifecta right there will make it difficult for anyone to beat us. Add in, hopefully, Tuck, and then you only need a couple of the rest, Stokes, Chong, Banks, Williams, Ekmark, Nurse, Edwards, to be decent/serviceable, and we have a real good shot at another NC.

Dolson and Hartley are a big deal - Stefanie especially so because I can't see so much of the offense running through Kiah even if she does become more of a scorer. That puts more of a load on the guards and with Bria's reemergence, losing her is also going to hurt, in spite of Moriah's growth this year. That's a lot of the control and direction of the offense that UConn will have to replace; there's not going to be a lot of experience in running the offense next year, at least at the beginning.

Still as you said, with Moriah and Breanna, and a hopefully healthy Morgan and Kaleena, they should have a strong core to carry the team while the new players work their way in. The incoming players look to be really good, and every team has to go through this; they have done better than I expected in making up for the loss of the "basketball Swiss Army knife" this year and they will do fine next year in making up for the loss of a point guard and the "point center".
 
Dolson and Hartley are a big deal - Stefanie especially so because I can't see so much of the offense running through Kiah even if she does become more of a scorer. That puts more of a load on the guards and with Bria's reemergence, losing her is also going to hurt, in spite of Moriah's growth this year. That's a lot of the control and direction of the offense that UConn will have to replace; there's not going to be a lot of experience in running the offense next year, at least at the beginning.

Still as you said, with Moriah and Breanna, and a hopefully healthy Morgan and Kaleena, they should have a strong core to carry the team while the new players work their way in. The incoming players look to be really good, and every team has to go through this; they have done better than I expected in making up for the loss of the "basketball Swiss Army knife" this year and they will do fine next year in making up for the loss of a point guard and the "point center".
Next years offense runs through Moriah, and Stewie, which will cause many openings for the best shooter in the game KML. Stewie has almost as many assists as Stef with a few less turnovers, so you would expect Stewie in the high post , with Kiah down low. Stewie at the high post presents nightmares for opposing coaches, a true triple threat. The ability to knock down the jump shot, drive to the rim, or make a bounce pass to a cutter, or open shooter. Stewie also sets a good screen for Moriah, and her driving layups.
 
.-.
I am aware of the magnitude of Duke-UNC and am not at all insinuating Duke-UNC any less of a rivalry because it has been in Duke's favor the last 15 years. I was making the point that if you're going to use those numbers for Connecticut-Notre Dame to claim it isn't a rivalry, then you can also use similar numbers to claim that Duke-UNC isn't one either which is completely ridiculous (just like how it's ridiculous to state than UCONN-Notre Dame isn't a rivalry.)
Well, I've been thinking about this.

ND-UConn WAS a rivalry. Now that they are not in the same conference, it's just a game between two really good teams. It's not the same when you don't play 2-3 times a season.

If UNC went to the Big Ten for example, the rivalry with Duke would not be the same either.
 
Notre Dame has won the last 4 games vs. Tennessee, but that was after losing the first 20 games in the series. The last 4 games

2011: 73-59 @Dayton to advance to the FF to face UConn
2012: 72-44 @Notre Dame
2013: 77-67 @Tennessee
2014: 86-70 @Tennessee

No one is claiming that it's a foregone conclusion that Notre Dame will win if UConn and Notre Dame play in the NC game this year. Obviously past performance (regardless of the time period utilized) is not a predictor of future success. I think what bballnut is claiming is that it's not crazy to think the ND could beat UConn, as the Irish are one the few teams to ever have this kind of multiyear success against the Huskies. If you were to go back to the first UConn/ND game last season (2012-13 season), there were many of UConn fans predicting 20-point blowouts over the Irish in Storrs, as ND graduated 3 starters (Peters, Novosel, and Mallory) from the previous year. Yet Notre Dame won in a very close contest.

Muffet is one of the few coaches that seems to give Geno trouble. While it's true that UConn has completely dominated the series over its lifetime, Muffet has only recently been getting recruits near UConn's level. She had been trying to compete despite a significant recruiting disadvantage (which certainly fueled UConn's dominance), but now she is starting to reel in top 5 recruits, so she will soon be on a somewhat equal footing with Geno. I think it's reasonable to assume that UConn/Notre Dame is a rivalry now. Just reading some of these threads indicates a fairly large amount of hostility directed towards Notre Dame despite the fact that Notre Dame's WBB team has really done nothing to invoke this wrath.

One word. Diggins.

We will see this year if it was close to equal talent or just a player with extreme confidence and cockiness that allowed them to get into Geno and the players heads enough to pull out several close wins.
 
I would love nothing more than both UCONN and Notre Dame make it to the title game. I predict a nail biter. As long as we can avoid any injuries or foul trouble, I believe any team other than Notre Dame is a sure thing for UCONN to win their 9th Championship. I still want to see Notre Dame, because I think it'll be a great game and good for WCB.
I am not sure what effect the crowd if any might have? Since the game is in TENN, I am sure the majority of the crowd will root for Notre Dame.

Unless Tennessee makes it to the final four I don't expect to many vol fans in the building.
 
One word. Diggins.

Doggy:

I think it's more than one player.

I still think we win, perhaps big, but I can't ignore the sophomore leap of Loyd; perhaps next to Stewart, the most dangerous player in WCBB.

The continued excellence of McBride, who regularly tormented us, the fine play of Achonwa (even if slightly limited from a UConn perspective),

And the improvement in the bench, especially Mabrey, who i had liked in USA ball the summer before, but then struggled in her Freshman year (not unknown, even at UConn).

But predominately it is the ability of their big-mouth coach to find a way to get the most from her players.
Surely, virtually an equal to Geno's amazing season this year.

And, they will not be afraid.
 
During that unhappy 7 losses in 8 games streak, the only evidence of "choking" I saw came from the Huskies, not ND. At the very least, two of those losses never should have occurred. I'd be more concerned about that than about how the Irish are dealing with being in UConn's shadow.

FWIW, I don't think it's at all surprising that they resent being in UConn's shadow. I was ticked in the early days when LV was getting all the media accolades and love. What's wrong with feeling that way?

And regarding the McBride quote: She was giving UConn credit. Pretty classy, I thought, and very far from 'whining.'
But Muppet was incorrect on one thing. They have not learned how to beat UCONN. They won some close games that could have gone either way with one different bounce of the ball. In the most recent game UCONN BEAT nd by being able to elevate their game. nd has never shown the ability to do that.
 
Doggy:

I think it's more than one player.

I still think we win, perhaps big, but I can't ignore the sophomore leap of Loyd; perhaps next to Stewart, the most dangerous player in WCBB.

The continued excellence of McBride, who regularly tormented us, the fine play of Achonwa (even if slightly limited from a UConn perspective),

And the improvement in the bench, especially Mabrey, who i had liked in USA ball the summer before, but then struggled in her Freshman year (not unknown, even at UConn).

But predominately it is the ability of their big-mouth coach to find a way to get the most from her players.
Surely, virtually an equal to Geno's amazing season this year.

And, they will not be afraid.
If Uconn wins big, it makes my point.

We shall see.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
167,951
Messages
4,546,054
Members
10,428
Latest member
CarloPFF


Top Bottom