ND/TENN - Who Do You Want To Win?

[Phil]

Also note:
Jan 16: Tenn 67 Miss St 63
Jan 19: Tx A&M 73 Miss St 35

Exactly. I watched the first game, and wondered if I was underestimating Miss St. Guess not.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Simmons was named POG and her coach said she played a "magnificent" game and she had 7 turnovers! Simmons can be a streaky shooter but she kills offense; in her 4th year still undisciplined ball hog and her coach is good with it.

 

[msf22b]

I disagree that the Tennessee zone was the cause of ND's offensive woes in the first half. It was the Irish running up the court like their pants were on fire and driving into the paint willy-willy, sometimes into three defenders, that caused their problems. No patience, no tempo, just a streetball game. It was uncharacteristic of ND and even Pam Ward saw that the Irish needed to slow down and run some offense.

And while ND definitely played better in the second half both offensively and defensively, the LVs went into some sort of funk all by themselves starting at the end of the first half. They heaved up the craziest shots, most of which had no prayer of going in. The LV "offense" in the first half looked better because their one-on-one shots went in (yes, I saw the nice pass by Simmons. I almost fell off the couch when I saw Tennessee actually get an assist) but, really, they don't play offense. Honestly, it looked like an AAU game and that's just sad for a program with Tennessee's pedigree.

Didn't Tennessee have a ton of assists in the first half?
I remember the announcers saying that.

 

[pap49cba]

Didn't Tennessee have a ton of assists in the first half?
I remember the announcers saying that.

14 assists on 19 hoops

 

[meyers7]

What in the world is the matter with 27% of you people? TN? Really? That's disgusting.

 

[DobbsRover2]

What in the world is the matter with 27% of you people? TN? Really? That's disgusting.

Do be respectful, meyers, you know that there are a number of BY posters who have tenn or vol in their names and don't necessarily share your views. Frankly, I myself prefer Hebrew Nationals.

 

[meyers7]

Would love to see an undefeated UConn pummel an undefeated ND like a killer whale tenderizing a seal meal.

 

[meyers7]

Do be respectful, meyers, you know that there are a number of BY posters who have tenn or vol in their names and don't necessarily share your views. Frankly, I myself prefer Hebrew Nationals.

Can't respect anyone who would want TN to win. I suppose they would cheer for Hitler and Idi Amin too.

 

[Kevin G]

Simmons was named POG and her coach said she played a "magnificent" game and she had 7 turnovers! Simmons can be a streaky shooter but she kills offense; in her 4th year still undisciplined ball hog and her coach is good with it.

Agree. She is so streaky and very hard to determine if she will be a positive or negative player on the floor. When ND started to make their run, Simmons was a disaster. I would have put in Carter. I thought she gave them some real good energy and love the way she plays. Much more disciplined then Simmons.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Agree. She is so streaky and very hard to determine if she will be a positive or negative player on the floor. When ND started to make their run, Simmons was a disaster. I would have put in Carter. I thought she gave them some real good energy and love the way she plays. Much more disciplined then Simmons.

A crashing tsunami wave is more disciplined than Simmons. Unfortunately she is that most dreaded of players, the frenetic type that can take an opponent by surprise and score a bunch of points very quickly, but once they adjust and she tires you get nothing but diva dingers off the backboard that often turn into baskets at the other end, and it's hard to sit her because of that early burst of fiery success.

 

[VAMike23]

A crashing tsunami wave is more disciplined than Simmons. Unfortunately she is that most dreaded of players, the frenetic type that can take an opponent by surprise and score a bunch of points very quickly, but once they adjust and she tires you get nothing but diva dingers off the backboard that often turn into baskets at the other end, and it's hard to sit her because of that early burst of fiery success.

classic!

[however last night she was 10-14 and her season FG % is creeping up to 42%. I still love the 'diva dingers' tho....]

 

[Phil]

Can't respect anyone who would want TN to win. I suppose they would cheer for Hitler and Idi Amin too.

Even in jest, I think this is too far.

 

[RadyLady]

I made a point of watching Russell. She cannot get up and down the court. UConn would run her into next month.

She is a freshman and a post. we all know that it takes a year, maybe more for posts to develop to the level of college play. Unfortunately for Mercedes, she picked Tennessee who appears to not develop players, they just throw them into games to use their talent to get the job done. We rarely see any development or expansion of their game, and that also includes conditioning. I feel bad for her...

 

[VAMike23]

Even in jest, I think this is too far.

I agree.......after all, this isn't Auburn/Alabama or OSU/Michigan in football. In those cases, many fans might actually think it isn't 'far enough.'

 

[meyers7]

also nice to see Niele Ivey

That's always nice.

 

[meyers7]

Even in jest, I think this is too far.

I could have gone with Satan and Bieber.

 

[Icebear]

She is a freshman and a post. we all know that it takes a year, maybe more for posts to develop to the level of college play. Unfortunately for Mercedes, she picked Tennessee who appears to not develop players, they just throw them into games to use their talent to get the job done. We rarely see any development or expansion of their game, and that also includes conditioning. I feel bad for her...

We know that the denizens of the Summitt don't. She was to be the latest savior. They really believe in magic over there.

 

[DobbsRover2]

And it looks like over on Volnation they want the coach to make UTenn play a more uptempo game. At least that's what I think they mean by the "Time for holly to go" post.

I also think Holly needs to unloose Simmons and give her free rein to strike terror into the Vol opponents.

 

[msf22b]

A most interesting, intelligent post on VolNation together with the equally interesting reply might be appropriate for consideration:

The threads originator expresses dismay at the calls for Warlick's head in the light of a seemingly very fine record of 14 and 4 together with last season's conference win.

The principle reply (also thoughtful) is that the team is descending towards mediocrity.
And that once firmly there, it will be very difficult to resurrect the culture of esteem and excellence previously attained
(see LA Tech).
.

 

[VAMike23]

And it looks like over on Volnation they want the coach to make UTenn play a more uptempo game. At least that's what I think they mean by the "Time for holly to go" post.

I also think Holly needs to unloose Simmons and give her free rein to strike terror into the Vol opponents.

It's not time for Holly & Co. to go just yet. She needs to stay in place a little longer so that the formerly feared brand of Lady Vols bball can fade even further into the rearview mirror before the next coach takes over.

 

[RadyLady]

We know that the denizens of the Summitt don't. She was to be the latest savior. They really believe in magic over there.

They are foolish and irresponsible, to ask so much of a young player.

 

[EricSD]

She is a freshman and a post. we all know that it takes a year, maybe more for posts to develop to the level of college play. Unfortunately for Mercedes, she picked Tennessee who appears to not develop players, they just throw them into games to use their talent to get the job done. We rarely see any development or expansion of their game, and that also includes conditioning. I feel bad for her...

Far be it for me to ever defend Tennessee, but even I can acknowledge that Izzy Harrison has turned into a terrific post player. Or at least I should say she puts up terrific numbers as I've not watched a Tennessee game yet this year. But she certainly was not a highly rated recruit coming out of HS - more Stef Dolson like. Maybe even lower than Stef. Having said that, I don't disagree that players who go through that program generally don't see the improvements that they do at other programs. Cierra Burdick - perfect example. Top 5 kid - about equivalent to Tuck. But they can't seem to figure out if they want her to be a forward or wing. And she's a non factor in most games.

One thing I didn't see mentioned after UCONN played RU is that RU put up 64 points on UCONN - the most by any team not named Oregon this season. More than Duke, more than Baylor. If Stringer can completely revamp her offense, then it seems possible that you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. No reason why the Tennessee staff can't do the same. It's not like all their asst coaches came from the Pat Summitt school of "defense first, O-boards 2nd, and defense third". Law was a HC herself. Klzy was an asst at Kansas and Kentucky before coming back to Tenn. Lockwood was an asst on the men's team before stints at Central Michigan and Saginaw State. So it's not like these people have never seen offense before...

 

[DobbsRover2]

There's a lot of interesting sides to the Holly question. Her team does have a decent record, she's only in her second official year of head-coaching, and the Vols did win the SEC championship last year and were briefly favored to get to the FF.

But clearly a lot has changed from Pat's day, and even if the SEC does still somehow manage to get high rankings and many selections for the NCAA tourney, it is mediocre level strength and UTenn is fading back as a mediocre team in the midst of mediocrity. Someone who spent so many years being the yes-woman to Pat doesn't have the steely guts and the social commonsense to deal with her players or deal with the press in any kind of adequate way. It's easy to let players drift along in a mess when the Vols are winning just enough games to keep things respectable enough for the AD. But the direction is gone there, and when the AA's stop thinking that UTenn is an okay place to play, it will be time for the Summitt to change its name to the Pit.

And I also wonder if Pat really wants a successful coach following her or whether she'd prefer to have everyone just posting, "It's not like when Pat was in charge."

 

[msf22b]

The new-style Rutgers offense may very well be predicated on the strengths and affinities of its two outstanding young guards
rather than any pronounced coaching alteration.

 

[Icebear]

I am not sure Pat is capable of such reflections.

 

[Phil]

One thing I didn't see mentioned after UCONN played RU is that RU put up 64 points on UCONN - the most by any team not named Oregon this season. More than Duke, more than Baylor. I

I guarantee that RU fans know this, they were discussing it in the stands after the game.

Frankly, I was in the camp of those expecting that this would be C. Viv's swan song year, but I'm reassessing my thoughts. She is doing a better job of designing a game plan to match the available talent than I had expected. I had pegged her as a "I have a vision on how the game should be played, and you will attempt to execute that plan, whether you have the skills to do so or not". I think that assessment was wrong. Despite a 30 point margin, the team played well.

I didn't see the Memphis game, so maybe I'm jumping to the wrong conclusion based upon a single observation, but this team has potential.

 

[Phil]

I am not sure Pat is capable of such reflections.

I didn't see this until after I posted, but a couple days ago, I would have agreed whole-heartedly. Now I'm not so sure.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I guarantee that RU fans know this, they were discussing it in the stands after the game.

Frankly, I was in the camp of those expecting that this would be C. Viv's swan song year, but I'm reassessing my thoughts. She is doing a better job of designing a game plan to match the available talent than I had expected. I had pegged her as a "I have a vision on how the game should be played, and you will attempt to execute that plan, whether you have the skills to do so or not". I think that assessment was wrong. Despite a 30 point margin, the team played well.

I didn't see the Memphis game, so maybe I'm jumping to the wrong conclusion based upon a single observation, but this team has potential.

I like watching the new Rutgers better than the old one, but clearly there's some issues when you team gives up 90+ points at home for the first time in three decades. Substituting a nice uptick on offense for a big deficit on defense is problematic. On the good side, maybe with a young team the defensive toughness can be taught while preserving most of the more high-powered offense.

 

[UcMiami]

On the Rutgers question - when playing a running style offense and giving up fast break after fast break it increases the number of possessions so the score is likely to rise. Oregon is the classic example - yes they shot quickly, but they also seldom put up much defense so the other team doesn't have to work hard to get lay ups at the other end. Against Rutgers, the first 10 minutes of the game Uconn got about 10 fast break opportunities even after made baskets so our time of possession per shot attempt was probably about 7 seconds - that in turn gives both teams more offensive possessions in the game.
As for Rutgers running a different offense ... didn't really see that. What I saw was two good players creating their own shots. I agree that Cviv is letting those players play at their pace and that hasn't always been the case but as I remember it seems similar to what she allowed Carson, Ajevon, and CP to do. The surprising thing was the porous defense.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Man has this thread gone off course.

But while we're on the subject of Rutgers, this year's team is averaging 7-12 points better than any of their teams in the last 6 years going back even to EP, while the defensive scoring level is pretty close to those teams. The caveat is that this year's team's stats are incomplete and their first half SOS is not at the same level as many of those past teams. We'll just have to wait and see how it all turns out for the Knights. It does seem to me that the passing is a little better this year than in recent times.