ND Fans arguing over Big 10

[dayooper]

Over at Rocks House (ND Fan Forum), there was a discussion on the Big10 and several fans were arguing that it was in their best interest!

Link

Give it read. Some seem to hate being in the ACC and being UNC's and Dukes "doormat" and they would rather play the Purdue's and Illinois' than the Wake's of the ACC.



Cue TerryD in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1

 

[dayooper]

I know it's not happening, but it's still fun to play around with. Using the 20 team pod system with ND, UConn, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and some other western school. It might look like this:

A: PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, ND, UConn
B: Michigan, OSU, MSU, Indiana, Purdue
C: Illinois, NW, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa
D: Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, ISU

Or Two teams (ND and UConn):

A: PSU, Maryland, UConn, Rutgers
B: OSU, Michigan, MSU, Indiana
C: Purdue, ND, Illinois, NW
D: Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska

 

[Adios]

ND would win their pod in the 2 team add every year.

 

[dayooper]

ND would win their pod in the 2 team add every year.

Not if the pods rotated every two years. As of right now, there can only be a conference final, no semi's. I highly doubt the ACC would facilitate the move by placating the Big10. By combining two of the pods, they become one division. Rotating the divisions every two years gives each team a chance to play each other more often.

Year 1 and 2

D1: Michigan, OSU, MSU, Indiana, PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, UConn
D2: ND, Purdue, Illinois, NW, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska

Year 3 and 4

D1: Michigan, OSU, MSU, Indiana, ND, Purdue, NW, Illinois
D2: PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, UConn, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska

Year 5 and 6

D1: Michigan, OSU, MSU, Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska
D2: PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, UConn, ND, Purdue, NW, Illinois

Again, none of this is happening, but it's fun to speculate.

 

[buddy]

Every school except UConn is P5 in your list. So, for UConn fans, who remain on the outside looking in, it is not fun to speculate. And you are right, none of this is happening,

 

[huskyrob1]

Not if the pods rotated every two years. As of right now, there can only be a conference final, no semi's. I highly doubt the ACC would facilitate the move by placating the Big10. By combining two of the pods, they become one division. Rotating the divisions every two years gives each team a chance to play each other more often.

Year 1 and 2

D1: Michigan, OSU, MSU, Indiana, PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, UConn
D2: ND, Purdue, Illinois, NW, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska

Year 3 and 4

D1: Michigan, OSU, MSU, Indiana, ND, Purdue, NW, Illinois
D2: PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, UConn, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska

Year 5 and 6

D1: Michigan, OSU, MSU, Indiana, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska
D2: PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, UConn, ND, Purdue, NW, Illinois

Again, none of this is happening, but it's fun to speculate.

You're right it wouldn't happen, because what it would do is force the the ACC's hand first. Swofford is no dumbell, they would invite Uconn and ND in all sports first before the Big Ten had a chance to act.

 

[nd73]

To be honest , as a poster on Rock House it surprises me who is advocating for the Big 10; and with vigor.
I missed that thread some how.

 

[dayooper]

To be honest , as a poster on Rock House it surprises me who is advocating for the Big 10; and with vigor.
I missed that thread some how.

It took me by surprise when it was linked to the victors. Rocks Place is as hard core keeping ND tradition as it gets and that thought process was not what I expected. Wanting Big10 football over ACC basketball was something I never thought I'd see there.

What are your thoughts on the topic?

 

[nd73]

It took me by surprise when it was linked to the victors. Rocks Place is as hard core keeping ND tradition as it gets and that thought process was not what I expected. Wanting Big10 football over ACC basketball was something I never thought I'd see there.

What are your thoughts on the topic?

Biggest surprise that is a alumnus heavy board. Most in that thread are graduates I believe.
Really I don't care, we stink and I see through the facade of the independence then now. When a conference is dictating almost have your schedule it is hard to believe you are independent.

I do not hate the Big 10, I do not love them; they (Big 10) geographically make a heck of a lot more sense than the ACC.

long story short? indifferent really. I am not going to defend a marketing ploy by our admin(quasi-independence).

 

[billybud]

It's a mute point...for the rest of my lifetime....with 20 years to go on the contract.

 

[Seaa Blue]

It's a mute point...for the rest of my lifetime....with 20 years to go on the contract.

One more time... ND buys itself out of the ACC. Football deal is a moot point. I think.

 

[billybud]

Keep saying that as the years roll by.

I'll believe it when a GOR is busted....

 

[Seaa Blue]

Keep saying that as the years roll by.

I'll believe it when a GOR is busted....

I'll be here. ND had all the leverage. Not sure why they would have offered more than they had to. See Old Big East, Hockey East.

 

[billybud]

Yeah...yeah...but they did...they signed a GOR and a contract that binds them to joining the ACC if they ever join a conference...until 2036..

And I won't be here to see the next development...2036 is a bridge to far.

 

[billybud]

Notre Dame hasn't played a 5 game a year yearly football schedule within any conference either....

The Big East's administration did not negotiate well with ND....

The ACC tied them up enough while giving them the football independence they wanted...The Domers wanted that independence but wanted a home for other sports and a bowl tie in. The ACC was not without leverage.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Notre Dame hasn't played a 5 game a year yearly football schedule within any conference either....

The Big East's administration did not negotiate well with ND....

The ACC tied them up enough while giving them the football independence they wanted...The Domers wanted that independence but wanted a home for other sports and a bowl tie in. The ACC was not without leverage.

I don't think the ACC has a hand in the ND home-game rights-pie. So then you dive into the unknown territory of what happens with the 2/3 away games. If Notre Dame withdraws from the conference, those games don't get played (after a while anyway). I'm sure there are exit provisions unique to ND there, and I don't think we can assume much. Assuming that ND is locked down until 2036 is absolutely a bridge too far.

 

[pj]

You're right it wouldn't happen, because what it would do is force the the ACC's hand first. Swofford is no dumbell, they would invite UConn and ND in all sports first before the Big Ten had a chance to act.

Don't be silly, the ACC has already invited Notre Dame (with UConn as partner) and Notre Dame has not said yes. Nor would Notre Dame say yes without thoroughly exploring its alternatives. The Big Ten will have its chance.

 

[billybud]

nah! You won't see the Irish going anywhere...to assume that they will is a a reach. And that includes joining football in the ACC.

Swarbrick went on the record this spring saying they "love the ACC" and "love the relationship the way it is". That means indy for football.

They signed the same GOR as everyone else for their non football programs and an agreement to play five football games a year with the ACC through 2036. As well as an agreement that they would not join any conference other than the ACC during the contract period.

 

[ramses 2.0]

ND would have to negotiate several deals to leave the ACC. First is the exit fee(3 times the conference payout) Second is the GOR attached to their basketball/Olympic sports& Third is their football/bowl agreement. I'm not saying it can't be done but that seems like a lot of unnecessary expenses to incur

 

[Irishfan]

Very few ND fans that I know want to see a move to the Big Ten. Joining for hockey isn't in any way analogous to joining for football. While the Big Ten has some geographical advantages for non revenue sports, these same geographic limitations would hurt the recruiting efforts for football. Additionally, it's not like ND has a football history with many Big Ten teams. Outside of Purdue, Michigan State, and Michigan, it's pretty limited. Maybe Northwestern, but it's more important that ND keep SC, Stanford and Navy on the schedule, with occasional meetings with the Big Ten teams I just noted. This scheduling keeps ND in a position to recruit in California and Florida, as well as its home territory of the Midwest.

 

[huskyrob1]

I

Very few ND fans that I know want to see a move to the Big Ten. Joining for hockey isn't in any way analogous to joining for football. While the Big Ten has some geographical advantages for non revenue sports, these same geographic limitations would hurt the recruiting efforts for football. Additionally, it's not like ND has a football history with many Big Ten teams. Outside of Purdue, Michigan State, and Michigan, it's pretty limited. Maybe Northwestern, but it's more important that ND keep SC, Stanford and Navy on the schedule, with occasional meetings with the Big Ten teams I just noted. This scheduling keeps ND in a position to recruit in California and Florida, as well as its home territory of the Midwest.

I think they want to stay independent in football. If they join any conference, they'll lose a lot of their 50 state recruiting power, as well as the Notre Dame mystique.

 

[Seaa Blue]

ND would have to negotiate several deals to leave the ACC. First is the exit fee(3 times the conference payout) Second is the GOR attached to their basketball/Olympic sports& Third is their football/bowl agreement. I'm not saying it can't be done but that seems like a lot of unnecessary expenses to incur

If this is right, Notre Dame received 4.3 million last year.

4.3 million * 3 + parting gifts gets ND out of the ACC.

The parting gifts may well be millions of dollars. My point (that I'm sure everyone is tired of now) is that Notre Dame is not like the others (unless their lawyers were sleeping). Why would they pay the full exit fee when they're only reaping a fraction of the benefits?

Sure, there's the GoR thing. The conference exit fee is the primary mechanism for collecting the value of the GoR since no one really knows how well the GoR would stand up in court. At the 3x payout level there's plenty of room to write a nice check, and there's simply no way ND willingly surrendered their rights for the next 20 years.

 

[SubZero]

I know it's not happening, but it's still fun to play around with. Using the 20 team pod system with ND, UConn, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and some other western school. It might look like this:

A: PSU, Maryland, Rutgers, ND, UConn
B: Michigan, OSU, MSU, Indiana, Purdue
C: Illinois, NW, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa
D: Texas, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, ISU

Or Two teams (ND and UConn):

A: PSU, Maryland, UConn, Rutgers
B: OSU, Michigan, MSU, Indiana
C: Purdue, ND, Illinois, NW
D: Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska

Nothing more than another attempt to troll us.

 

[billybud]

If this is right, Notre Dame received 4.3 million last year.

4.3 million * 3 + parting gifts gets ND out of the ACC.

The parting gifts may well be millions of dollars. My point (that I'm sure everyone is tired of now) is that Notre Dame is not like the others (unless their lawyers were sleeping). Why would they pay the full exit fee when they're only reaping a fraction of the benefits?

Sure, there's the GoR thing. The conference exit fee is the primary mechanism for collecting the value of the GoR since no one really knows how well the GoR would stand up in court. At the 3x payout level there's plenty of room to write a nice check, and there's simply no way ND willingly surrendered their rights for the next 20 years.

Sigh!1

Along with The Dude...so many lawyer wannabees....

The GOR is a much more powerful agreement than the exit fee....and, like the Dude, you imagine facts..like "there is no way that Notre Dame willingly surrendered their rights for 20 years"....

The ACC has announced that Notre Dame is contractually obligated to join the ACC if they decide to give up independence..Reported everywhere.....Without refutation. Is there any thing to the contrary? No.

 

[Seaa Blue]

Sigh!1

Along with The Dude...so many lawyer wannabees....

The GOR is a much more powerful agreement than the exit fee....and, like the Dude, you imagine facts..like "there is no way that Notre Dame willingly surrendered their rights for 20 years"....

The ACC has announced that Notre Dame is contractually obligated to join the ACC if they decide to give up independence..Reported everywhere.....Without refutation. Is there any thing to the contrary? No.

Well at least you're not challenging me on the full exit fee.

Perhaps some progress has been made.

 

[billybud]

The Exit fee is nothing...But it is three times the ACC's annual operating budget...about $70 some million today.


I think that, with the Notre Dame football games already scheduled with the ACC through 2036...A binding GOR with a network looming, a contract in place regarding a five game a year football participation and a clause regarding joining the ACC if football joins a conference (also recently extended through 2036), that it would be fairly expensive to litigate as well a big gamble on court ordered damages ...

If Notre Dame had an inkling to go to another conference...I can't fathom them signing a long extension binding for the next 20 years.

... add all that to the Irish penchant for football independence....& I think that talk of them going to another conference is just more internet day dreaming.

And, like always, that internet daydreaming will be as perennial as roadside weeds..

 

[HuskyHawk]

I

I think they want to stay independent in football. If they join any conference, they'll lose a lot of their 50 state recruiting power, as well as the Notre Dame mystique.

It's already gone. They aren't getting any recruiting benefit from being independent now. It's probably hurting them. HS kids just don't see that as important, but do care about conference championship games. I think they are pretending that the past is the present, to their detriment.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The Exit fee is nothing...But it is three times the ACC's annual operating budget...about $70 some million today.


I think that, with the Notre Dame football games already scheduled with the ACC through 2036...A binding GOR with a network looming, a contract in place regarding a five game a year football participation and a clause regarding joining the ACC if football joins a conference (also recently extended through 2036), that it would be fairly expensive to litigate as well a big gamble on court ordered damages ...

If Notre Dame had an inkling to go to another conference...I can't fathom them signing a long extension binding for the next 20 years.

... add all that to the Irish penchant for football independence....& I think that talk of them going to another conference is just more internet day dreaming.

And, like always, that internet daydreaming will be as perennial as roadside weeds..

I think you are probably right. We haven't seen a GOR challenged yet. It will be interesting to see what happens when that happens. I suspect that these discussions are happening because the B1G money is now so significant, that it makes it viable that ND would join with no decrease in overall income. Meanwhile, if ND opened it's checkbook, and threatened to challenge the GOR, would the ACC blink? The ACC can't afford to have that GOR weakened by a court decision. They could buy their way out, it would just be expensive.

That said, I think they'll ride out this situation a little longer. But I'm convinced that ND Independence is ending sooner rather than later. I think it is hurting them, diminishing status rather than inflating it. The P5 has pumped itself up to such a degree, that it's the benchmark now. Independent may be better than being in the AAC, but it's less prestigious than being in the B1G or ACC. I think Notre Dame is realizing that.

 

[TerryD]

It's already gone. They aren't getting any recruiting benefit from being independent now. It's probably hurting them. HS kids just don't see that as important, but do care about conference championship games. I think they are pretending that the past is the present, to their detriment.

The current roster has kids from something like 27 states, plus British Columbia (my quick count), so.......

Official Football Roster :: Notre Dame Football :: UND.COM :: The Official Site of Notre Dame Athletics

ND is happy with the status quo (including football independence) and happy that its baseball, basketball, etc...is in the ACC versus the Big Ten. ND basketball currently is #3 in the recruiting rankings and had two Elite 8 finishes in a row in 2015 and 2016.

Talk about ND challenging the ACC GOR and thinking about joining the Big Ten is all sports is just message board fantasy, not real life.

 

[don356]

Challenges to a GOR is probably in the offing when these tv contracts are close to expiration, and a particular conference will not get near what they had before. If schools get a better offer, there likely is some material adverse change clause that they would try to invoke that the big loss of revenue will nullify it.