ND Fans arguing over Big 10

[billybud]

The Exit fee is nothing...But it is three times the ACC's annual operating budget...about $70 some million today.


I think that, with the Notre Dame football games already scheduled with the ACC through 2036...A binding GOR with a network looming, a contract in place regarding a five game a year football participation and a clause regarding joining the ACC if football joins a conference (also recently extended through 2036), that it would be fairly expensive to litigate as well a big gamble on court ordered damages ...

If Notre Dame had an inkling to go to another conference...I can't fathom them signing a long extension binding for the next 20 years.

... add all that to the Irish penchant for football independence....& I think that talk of them going to another conference is just more internet day dreaming.

And, like always, that internet daydreaming will be as perennial as roadside weeds..

 

[HuskyHawk]

I

I think they want to stay independent in football. If they join any conference, they'll lose a lot of their 50 state recruiting power, as well as the Notre Dame mystique.

It's already gone. They aren't getting any recruiting benefit from being independent now. It's probably hurting them. HS kids just don't see that as important, but do care about conference championship games. I think they are pretending that the past is the present, to their detriment.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The Exit fee is nothing...But it is three times the ACC's annual operating budget...about $70 some million today.


I think that, with the Notre Dame football games already scheduled with the ACC through 2036...A binding GOR with a network looming, a contract in place regarding a five game a year football participation and a clause regarding joining the ACC if football joins a conference (also recently extended through 2036), that it would be fairly expensive to litigate as well a big gamble on court ordered damages ...

If Notre Dame had an inkling to go to another conference...I can't fathom them signing a long extension binding for the next 20 years.

... add all that to the Irish penchant for football independence....& I think that talk of them going to another conference is just more internet day dreaming.

And, like always, that internet daydreaming will be as perennial as roadside weeds..

I think you are probably right. We haven't seen a GOR challenged yet. It will be interesting to see what happens when that happens. I suspect that these discussions are happening because the B1G money is now so significant, that it makes it viable that ND would join with no decrease in overall income. Meanwhile, if ND opened it's checkbook, and threatened to challenge the GOR, would the ACC blink? The ACC can't afford to have that GOR weakened by a court decision. They could buy their way out, it would just be expensive.

That said, I think they'll ride out this situation a little longer. But I'm convinced that ND Independence is ending sooner rather than later. I think it is hurting them, diminishing status rather than inflating it. The P5 has pumped itself up to such a degree, that it's the benchmark now. Independent may be better than being in the AAC, but it's less prestigious than being in the B1G or ACC. I think Notre Dame is realizing that.

 

[TerryD]

It's already gone. They aren't getting any recruiting benefit from being independent now. It's probably hurting them. HS kids just don't see that as important, but do care about conference championship games. I think they are pretending that the past is the present, to their detriment.

The current roster has kids from something like 27 states, plus British Columbia (my quick count), so.......

Official Football Roster :: Notre Dame Football :: UND.COM :: The Official Site of Notre Dame Athletics

ND is happy with the status quo (including football independence) and happy that its baseball, basketball, etc...is in the ACC versus the Big Ten. ND basketball currently is #3 in the recruiting rankings and had two Elite 8 finishes in a row in 2015 and 2016.

Talk about ND challenging the ACC GOR and thinking about joining the Big Ten is all sports is just message board fantasy, not real life.

 

[don356]

Challenges to a GOR is probably in the offing when these tv contracts are close to expiration, and a particular conference will not get near what they had before. If schools get a better offer, there likely is some material adverse change clause that they would try to invoke that the big loss of revenue will nullify it.

 

[HoopsFan21]

When was the last time ND won anything in a major sport M/W hoops or football? Not sure how they expect to maintain their lofty rep with the new generation that has never seen them win anything and views them as another small school in the Midwest that never wins anything.

 

[huskyrob1]

When was the last time ND won anything in a major sport M/W hoops or football?

16 years ago

 

[SubZero]

Most college sports fans would not consider women's basketball a major sport.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Most college sports fans would not consider women's basketball a major sport.

Probably not, but it is still basketball and gets national coverage. I mean if you were to rank college sports in order of importance based on amount of media coverage it's pretty clearly football, men's basketball, and then women's basketball.

 

[huskyrob1]

Most college sports fans would not consider women's basketball a major sport.

What about the millions of college sports fans that turned off ESPN'S channels broadcasting men's college basketball and MSG broadcasting the Knicks, and NHL hockey? All in favor of the Uconn Women in a ho-hum game at Temple last Feb.

 

[huskyrob1]

What about the millions of college sports fans that turned off ESPN'S channels broadcasting men's college basketball and MSG broadcasting the Knicks, and NHL hockey? All in favor of the UConn Women in a ho-hum game at Temple last Feb.

http://www.westhartfordnews.com/blo...cle_2635eac2-62cf-5f06-b3db-c010d9af632e.html

 

[CL82]

It is in everyone's best interest to treat GoRs as inviolate until it isn't. When the stakes are right, someone will challenge one.

 

[billybud]

I'd wonder how that translates nationally. Very good local/regional ratings, though, for UConn Women.

The big Miss State upset over UConn women in the Final Four drew a national 1.9 (the largest Women's Final Four draw in five years).

UConn-UCLA scored a 1.0 in the Elite Eight.

I would suspect that most regular season games would be a fraction of that...


Saying that, I suspect that a regional performance becomes valuable when you are attempting to sell a network. A NY TV Market rating of 5.0 would be 5% of the 7.4 million households in New York or 370,000 households.

The Nets ratings dropped in NY 28% last year to .33 (1/3 of 1% of New York's 7.4 million households). The women would outpull several men's basketball teams, I think.

 

[JeepCSC]

Not if the pods rotated every two years. As of right now, there can only be a conference final, no semi's. I highly doubt the ACC would facilitate the move by placating the Big10. By combining two of the pods, they become one division. Rotating the divisions every two years gives each team a chance to play each other more often.

Swofford has been begging to give conferences the chances to do pods forever. The B10 is the one saying no.

 

[Pat125]

Swofford has been begging to give conferences the chances to do pods forever. The B10 is the one saying no.

The pods, as described, would form two divisions, that are rotated. So each year, there are always two divisions, just the composition changes. As long as there is a round robin within the divisions, and the division winners play each other, this is allowed.

What is not allowed is having three or more divisions with semifinals, or even just a conference final (say between the top two division winners). Also not permitted is one division, non-round robin with a championship game. It wasn't just the Big Ten that was opposed. The other P5 conferences were opposed as well. Only two models for conference championship games were allowed.

Swofford will simply have to convince two other conferences next time around to allow arbitrary championship models, or better yet. propose the model he is seeking in addition to the current models allowed.

 

[JeepCSC]

I guess the ACC (and B12) were pushing to deregulate how conferences schedule. Which could mean pods, or it could mean something else. That didn't benefit the B10, and Delaney has been the most vocal about keeping things status quo. Theoretically, you could simply have divisions which rotate every year, but honestly pods probably won't be viable until we get 16-team conferences and allow semifinals.

Mostly it was just weird to hear a B10 fan complain that Swofford was behind playing politics by trying to keep the system in place as it exists. The opposite has been the issue.

 

[Ldandy]

I guess the ACC (and B12) were pushing to deregulate how conferences schedule. Which could mean pods, or it could mean something else. That didn't benefit the B10, and Delaney has been the most vocal about keeping things status quo. Theoretically, you could simply have divisions which rotate every year, but honestly pods probably won't be viable until we get 16-team conferences and allow semifinals.

Mostly it was just weird to hear a B10 fan complain that Swofford was behind playing politics by trying to keep the system in place as it exists. The opposite has been the issue.

I think Delany's Reservation on The ACC's Proposal, or any similar proposal for that matter, was that it could have potentially opened the door for conferences to try to rig the system even more than it already is. With the playoff being such an enormous revenue generator the temptation to play with conference title match ups in order to produce or protect potential playoff spots would be very high. JMO but this didn't appeal to him or the conferences currently running a fixed divisional format who could be an upset in the conference title game away from being shutout of the playoff. I don't see an issue with those suggesting pods that rotate but form divisions. This seems like a good solution for larger conferences whose members complain about playing each other less.

 

[Hoophound]

I thought Delaney was against pods because it could encourage the ACC to expand a little more and he wants things to stay status quo until he is ready for more expansion.

 

[billybud]

The CCG's are sometimes not between the best teams in a conference..maybe even often.

Example:

In the Big Ten, # 6 Wisconsin met #7 Penn State while, maybe the two best teams, #2 Ohio State and #5 Michigan stayed home after playing a terrific double overtime game.

This with Wisconsin losing to both Ohio State and Michigan and Penn State losing by 39 points to Michigan while edging Ohio State on a blocked FG touchdown return.

But, I don't think that fans generally like a rematch...we'll see in the Big 12 how that works out.

I know that we didn't love, as #2 FSU, beating #1 Florida the last game of the season...only to have have a rematch in post season between #1 FSU and #2 Florida....the record ended up being split 12-1 both teams with a loss to each other. Florida was awarded the NC.

 

[SubZero]

I thought Delaney was against pods because it could encourage the ACC to expand a little more and he wants things to stay status quo until he is ready for more expansion.

If that's the case then we need to focus our entire budget on lobbying for pods.

 

[Seaa Blue]

I thought Delaney was against pods because it could encourage the ACC to expand a little more and he wants things to stay status quo until he is ready for more expansion.

Swofford was worried about match-ups like

2016 #3 Clemson 42–35 #19 Virginia Tech

Historically the ACC, probably more than most, ran the risk of not showing many quality wins and losing out to an otherwise closely matched competitor for a playoff spot. I think that was in their heads because they seemed to whine about the system more than most.

Now that the ACC is on a roll, with a better image and all, I don't think he has to worry about losing a 3 or 4 spot in the playoffs on the last weekend even when his best team wins.

 

[Seaa Blue]

On the other hand, the Big Ten places teams that lose their CCG, so maybe he's justified with wanting to game the system a bit.

 

[billybud]

The ACC wanted the two highest ranked teams to meet rather than division winners from a sometimes unbalanced division.

I think that you are wrong about the motivation.

Swofford and others concede the awkwardness of the present structure -- playing six of the seven teams from the opposite division once every six years. Such infrequency, the antithesis of a conference concept, is underscored by the ACC’s arrangement with Notre Dame, by which the Fighting Irish play every league team, on average, once every three years.

 

[billybud]

On the other hand, the Big Ten places teams that lose, so maybe he's justified with wanting to game the system a bit.

But they don't place the conference champion.

 

[billybud]

Delaney was rueful about his conference champ not being in the CFP while another conference team was selected....something he campaigned against in the past. The higher ranked team was selected instead.

INDIANAPOLIS — A Big Ten team will make the College Football Playoff. It probably won’t be the Big Ten champion. Penn State beat Wisconsin 38-31 Saturday night in a game that was thrilling and classic and anointed a nominal league titleist but in reality featured the third- and fourth-best teams in the conference, a scenario that earns them rings and a lifetime of debating semantics with sneering graduates of other schools. Arguments can and will be made that the all-consuming specter of the playoff significantly diminished the proceedings at Lucas Oil Stadium, that the Nittany Lions sifted through the streamers and confetti for a consolation prize. And all this after the commissioner of the league went on television earlier in the day and conceded he had to be O.K. with a non-champion representing his league in the playoff, when he campaigned against that very thing when the playoff was first built.