ND Fans arguing over Big 10

[billybud]

The problem with unbalanced division schedules is every much a Big Ten problem as an ACC problem...

As Land Grant Holyland put it...

This happened last year too, as an Iowa team that almost everybody suspected wasn’t actually as good as their record, advanced to the Big Ten championship game without ever playing Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State or Penn State. They lost a close game to a weakened Michigan State team in the final, and then got summarily blasted to the moon by Stanford in the Rose Bowl.

 

[huskyrob1]

Delaney was rueful about his conference champ not being in the CFP while another conference team was selected....something he campaigned against in the past. The higher ranked team was selected instead.

INDIANAPOLIS — A Big Ten team will make the College Football Playoff. It probably won’t be the Big Ten champion. Penn State beat Wisconsin 38-31 Saturday night in a game that was thrilling and classic and anointed a nominal league titleist but in reality featured the third- and fourth-best teams in the conference, a scenario that earns them rings and a lifetime of debating semantics with sneering graduates of other schools. Arguments can and will be made that the all-consuming specter of the playoff significantly diminished the proceedings at Lucas Oil Stadium, that the Nittany Lions sifted through the streamers and confetti for a consolation prize. And all this after the commissioner of the league went on television earlier in the day and conceded he had to be O.K. with a non-champion representing his league in the playoff, when he campaigned against that very thing when the playoff was first built.

The Big Ten would benefit more than any other conference at the CFP going to 8 teams. The top 5 or 6 in the BT, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, even throw in Iowa and Nebraska every few years, are capable of upsetting, on any given day, any team in the conference or the country. They may not have had the best team in the country last season but several were pretty dam close.

 

[JeepCSC]

The B12 would benefit the most with the CFP going to 8 teams.

 

[Pat125]

The ACC wanted the two highest ranked teams to meet rather than division winners from a sometimes unbalanced division.

I think that you are wrong about the motivation.

Swofford and others concede the awkwardness of the present structure -- playing six of the seven teams from the opposite division once every six years. Such infrequency, the antithesis of a conference concept, is underscored by the ACC’s arrangement with Notre Dame, by which the Fighting Irish play every league team, on average, once every three years.

Swofford knew what the rules were when the ACC expanded to 14 teams and when they added Notre Dame. If this was that big a problem, the conference should have waited until he was able to change the rules. But that didn't happen. Even so, there are still alternatives that have been discussed, such as divisions with pods, or at least adding another conference game. As for Notre Dame, that's too bad. Perhaps the ACC and Notre Dame can mutually agree to scrap the five game agreement that Swofford apparently sees as a problem. Then Notre Dame can be an independent in football again.

As for Delany's (no second "e," by the way) conundrum, too bad for him. I can't believe that he was naive enough to believe that scenario (a conference nonchampion could make the CFP) could not happen. He can try to persuade the other P5 conference to allow only conference champions to be eligible for the CFP. But then the Big Ten may have have no one in the CFP. I can't see how that would have been better for Delany.

 

[ivrytontusker]

When was the last time ND won anything in a major sport M/W hoops or football? Not sure how they expect to maintain their lofty rep with the new generation that has never seen them win anything and views them as another small school in the Midwest that never wins anything.

So in that respect ND is the same as every Big 10 school not located in Columbus, Ohio.

 

[billybud]

Swofford knew what the rules were when the ACC expanded to 14 teams and when they added Notre Dame. If this was that big a problem, the conference should have waited until he was able to change the rules. But that didn't happen. Even so, there are still alternatives that have been discussed, such as divisions with pods, or at least adding another conference game. As for Notre Dame, that's too bad. Perhaps the ACC and Notre Dame can mutually agree to scrap the five game agreement that Swofford apparently sees as a problem. Then Notre Dame can be an independent in football again.

As for Delany's (no second "e," by the way) conundrum, too bad for him. I can't believe that he was naive enough to believe that scenario (a conference nonchampion could make the CFP) could not happen. He can try to persuade the other P5 conference to allow only conference champions to be eligible for the CFP. But then the Big Ten may have have no one in the CFP. I can't see how that would have been better for Delany.

Who knows...Penn State might not have been sent to see Alice Kramer like Ohio State was by Clemson. On paper, the Buckeyes were the better team...head to head? They lost to PSU.

 

[JeepCSC]

You can't have pods with 14-teams, so it's just not workable at the moment, even if people were ok doing some convoluted rotating pods and only a championship game. Pods will come with 16-team leagues and semifinals.

 

[billybud]

Actually...I guess, now that I think about it, one could actually blame the ACC for Penn State's not going to the CFP.

That loss to Pitt gave them the second loss...to Ohio State's one loss.

 

[Pat125]

You can't have pods with 14-teams, so it's just not workable at the moment, even if people were ok doing some convoluted rotating pods and only a championship game. Pods will come with 16-team leagues and semifinals.

In the context I've been using, pods are possible. You can have two pods, A and B, with four teams, and two pods, C and D, with three teams. One year, you have divisions with pods A and C, and pods B and D. The next year, you have divisions with pods A and D, and pods B and C. So, for example, teams in Pod A would play every team in their own pod every year, and teams in Pods C and D. Even with an eight game schedule that would leave two more games to play teams in Pod B, so they would play those teams every other year as well. My guess is this was discussed, and there was no agreement on the composition of the pods. Or there was no attempt, and Swofford chose to whine instead of improving the situation.

If Swofford is looking to have just one division with the goal of teams playing each other at least once every two years, they will have to devise some scheduling which will be similar to the pod scheduling above anyway.

 

[billybud]

Don't be obtuse...Swofford didn't whine at all...he proposed a rule change., that is all.....and said..I don't know that we actually want to do anything...we just think that conferences should be able to decide how they derive their champions.

That is the sum of it.

It is Big Ten fans that constantly harp on pods....

 

[Seaa Blue]

Don't be obtuse...Swofford didn't whine at all...he proposed a rule change., that is all.....and said..I don't know that we actually want to do anything...we just think that conferences should be able to decide how they derive their champions.

Your honor, the defense rests.

 

[billybud]

Schedules will always be awkward...like Iowa not playing Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, nor Penn State on the way to the championship game...

Or VT not playing Louisville, FSU, or Clemson on their way to the championship game.

This year's Ohio State basketball team...who found out that they were in a bad place for a bubble team....needed schedule help according to Eleven Warriors.

The Big Ten currently has eight RPI top-100 teams, which is tied for fewest among the five major conferences. The Big 12 is the only other Power 5 league in the country with eight, but remember there are only 10 teams in the Big 12 whereas the Big Ten has 14. Ten of the ACC’s 15 teams are in the RPI’s top-100; the SEC has nine; and the Pac-12 has 11 of its 12 teams in the top-100.

The unbalanced schedule in the Big Ten meant Ohio State played nine of its 18 conference games against those teams outside the RPI top-100. That’s 50 percent. Indiana is the only other team in the conference with that type of unbalance. So yes, the Buckeyes only had two quality wins in the league, but they also had fewer opportunities than the rest of the teams in the top half of the Big Ten.


I think that we will always have artifacts of scheduling...perfect schedules just aren't likely.

 

[billybud]

Your honor, the defense rests.

Oh that is exactly what the ACC proposed, all righta...and, you know what? Swofford has never said that he was disappointed in the outcome. He said it probably wouldn't have been acted upon, it was just a philosophy.

Maybe he was trying to help the Big 12 out...

 

[Pat125]

Don't be obtuse...Swofford didn't whine at all...he proposed a rule change., that is all.....and said..I don't know that we actually want to do anything...we just think that conferences should be able to decide how they derive their champions.

That is the sum of it.

It is Big Ten fans that constantly harp on pods....

Actually, I didn't realize Swofford whined about any of this until you provided the quotes and links. Except for Indiana and Purdue, Big Ten teams play each other three times every seven years, so there isn't a need for pods at this point. When Swofford figures out what his conference wants, he can propose it. In the meantime, he can continue to whine about his current deplorable scheduling model and do nothing about it.

 

[billybud]

oh Gawd...I know you don't like the ACC...and it is OK.

But...it is you and Big Ten fans that constantly bring up pods....

It just isn't happening...

You can espouse pod plans until the cows come home....The ACC won't expand to 15....

 

[ScottVib]

Independence influence on National Recruiting is over-stated. TV + success will let you recruit nationally. Really it's about NBC and the brand strength of Notre Dame.. winning is the key to the latter component.

Case in point, Bama has something like 23 states represented on its roster; Ohio State had 22; even Florida State in a recruiting hotbed has 17

 

[JeepCSC]

In the context I've been using, pods are possible. You can have two pods, A and B, with four teams, and two pods, C and D, with three teams. One year, you have divisions with pods A and C, and pods B and D. The next year, you have divisions with pods A and D, and pods B and C. So, for example, teams in Pod A would play every team in their own pod every year, and teams in Pods C and D. Even with an eight game schedule that would leave two more games to play teams in Pod B, so they would play those teams every other year as well. My guess is this was discussed, and there was no agreement on the composition of the pods. Or there was no attempt, and Swofford chose to whine instead of improving the situation.

If Swofford is looking to have just one division with the goal of teams playing each other at least once every two years, they will have to devise some scheduling which will be similar to the pod scheduling above anyway.

Two four-team pods and two three-team pods? Egads, that sounds awful. Like cheer sheet awful.

 

[billybud]

It is awful...

 

[huskyrob1]

You can't have pods with 14-teams, so it's just not workable at the moment, even if people were ok doing some convoluted rotating pods and only a championship game. Pods will come with 16-team leagues and semifinals.

If they go to 16 team leagues, does Uconn end up in the ACC or the Big Ten? Does Texas end up in the PAC 12, the SEC or the Big Ten?

 

[Pat125]

Two four-team pods and two three-team pods? Egads, that sounds awful. Like cheer sheet awful.

I think you are missing the point. There are still two divisions with a championship game. It is simply a mechanism to change up the divisions every year so that teams can play each other at least every other year. There are other ways this can be done. If you don't want to change the divisions and prefer to keep things as they are, fine by me. Anyway, I don't want to overstay my welcome here, if I haven't already, so I will leave it at that.

 

[JeepCSC]

I get the point. But uneven pods doesn't sound manageable, particularly if nested inside the concept of divisions. It's too clever by half.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Schedules will always be awkward...like Iowa not playing Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, nor Penn State on the way to the championship game...

Or VT not playing Louisville, FSU, or Clemson on their way to the championship game.

This year's Ohio State basketball team...who found out that they were in a bad place for a bubble team....needed schedule help according to Eleven Warriors.

The Big Ten currently has eight RPI top-100 teams, which is tied for fewest among the five major conferences. The Big 12 is the only other Power 5 league in the country with eight, but remember there are only 10 teams in the Big 12 whereas the Big Ten has 14. Ten of the ACC’s 15 teams are in the RPI’s top-100; the SEC has nine; and the Pac-12 has 11 of its 12 teams in the top-100.

The unbalanced schedule in the Big Ten meant Ohio State played nine of its 18 conference games against those teams outside the RPI top-100. That’s 50 percent. Indiana is the only other team in the conference with that type of unbalance. So yes, the Buckeyes only had two quality wins in the league, but they also had fewer opportunities than the rest of the teams in the top half of the Big Ten.


I think that we will always have artifacts of scheduling...perfect schedules just aren't likely.

Sounds like the Big Ten could use some help on the basketball side.

 

[buddy]

Sounds like the Big Ten could use some help on the basketball side.

Seems to me that Cinci and SMU are usually the top two in the AAC. Now add Wichita, which will likely be the new front runner. Gotta stop living in the past. Can only hope that this season UConn can start clawing its way back to respectability.

 

[huskyrob1]

Seems to me that Cinci and SMU are usually the top two in the AAC. Now add Wichita, which will likely be the new front runner. Gotta stop living in the past. Can only hope that this season UConn can start clawing its way back to respectability.

Seems to me Cincinnati, SMU or WS would play 500 ball this season if they had the amount of injuries UCONN had last season.

 

[buddy]

res ipsa loquitur