NCAA exploring Big 5 conference autonomy

[Stinger92860]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...sident-mark-emmert-governance-reform/3987363/

Obviously Hatch doesn't root for Uconn or Cincy, otherwise he would see a huge change as a fan.

 

[upstater]

The stipend thing is going to bite them in the butt eventually. Especially the no power-5 schools. It will result in getting rid of as many men's sports as possible. Either that or somehow funding these without student fees given to the AD. Students are pretty savvy and they realize their money is going to fund the athletic department, but now they're going to realize that their money is funding $5k in cash for all the athletes on campus, not just the revenue sports. Looking at this, the P5 are better off breaking and creating a unique corporation in which the players really are employees, and they get the full cost of an education in cash, then they're allowed to pay the school to go to classes if they want. The P5 want to keep the appearance of sports being related to academics, but really this has become a huge farce and they should just admit it and get on with training players to be professionals, like the rest of the world does.

 

[Stinger92860]

After viewing this thread, I am at a loss to see a scenario where we remain solvent and able to compete at a p5 level. Why would any conference, other than the b12 expand and the b12 wont take us. I think we are screwed.

 

[HawkHusky]

After viewing this thread, I am at a loss to see a scenario where we remain solvent and able to compete at a p5 level. Why would any conference, other than the b12 expand and the b12 wont take us. I think we are screwed.

It depends if the Big 12 wants 2 to get to the minimum for a Championship Game or 4 to get to 14 like the ACC, SEC, and B1G. The only real targets available are UCF, USF, Cincinnati, BYU, and UCONN. I really think they'd have too many issues with BYU to add them. The Big 12 is probably the only relatively soon P5 expansion to take place (unless the race to 16 is suddenly put into play).

UCONN may be a longshot, but I don't think it's all that far-fetched given the few options that the Big 12 has.

 

[metsfan2323]

After viewing this thread, I am at a loss to see a scenario where we remain solvent and able to compete at a p5 level. Why would any conference, other than the b12 expand and the b12 wont take us. I think we are screwed.

The stipend would probably cost no more than 1 Million per year, UCONN athletics will not be torpedoed by that nor will any team in the AAC. People are forgetting about the exit fee money the AAC is sitting on. Longer term, the next TV contract is unlikely to be as bad but more likely we end up in one of the P5 conferences.

Houston and Tulane are opening up new stadiums in 2014, there is no way they will be playing FCS football in those stadiums.

 

[metsfan2323]

It depends if the Big 12 wants 2 to get to the minimum for a Championship Game or 4 to get to 14 like the ACC, SEC, and B1G. The only real targets available are UCF, USF, Cincinnati, BYU, and UCONN. I really think they'd have too many issues with BYU to add them. The Big 12 is probably the only relatively soon P5 expansion to take place (unless the race to 16 is suddenly put into play).

UCONN may be a longshot, but I don't think it's all that far-fetched given the few options that the Big 12 has.

This is true, if the B12 decided to expand by 4 tomorrow I would think UCONN would be a lock. You can't find 4 better options than UCONN and I am not sure you can even find two. UCONN is unique in that they can also make Women's Basketball a money maker for any conference that picks them up.

 

[uconndogs]

The stipend thing is going to bite them in the butt eventually. Especially the no power-5 schools. It will result in getting rid of as many men's sports as possible. Either that or somehow funding these without student fees given to the AD. Students are pretty savvy and they realize their money is going to fund the athletic department, but now they're going to realize that their money is funding $5k in cash for all the athletes on campus, not just the revenue sports. Looking at this, the P5 are better off breaking and creating a unique corporation in which the players really are employees, and they get the full cost of an education in cash, then they're allowed to pay the school to go to classes if they want. The P5 want to keep the appearance of sports being related to academics, but really this has become a huge farce and they should just admit it and get on with training players to be professionals, like the rest of the world does.

I agree with this entirely. And I would take it one step farther. This is going to whittle down the elite of college athletics to something like 30-40 programs and it will be exactly what it is - NFL and NBA light. All that differentiates college athletics will be pretty much gone. Texas, Alabama, UNC, UCLA, Michigan will all have much larger shares of a shrinking pie. We could very well be watching the ruin of college athletics at its highest levels.

Also, I shutter to think what these athletic programs will do to kids that don't pan out athletically under these types of new rules. Honor their "scholarships"? I don't think so.....

 

[metsfan2323]

I agree with this entirely. And I would take it one step farther. This is going to whittle down the elite of college athletics to something like 30-40 programs and it will be exactly what it is - NFL and NBA light. All that differentiates college athletics will be pretty much gone. Texas, Alabama, UNC, UCLA, Michigan will all have much larger shares of a shrinking pie. We could very well be watching the ruin of college athletics at its highest levels.

Also, I shutter to think what these athletic programs will do to kids that don't pan out athletically under these types of new rules. Honor their "scholarships"? I don't think so.....

If the P5 decide to turn "pro" it will be the P4 because the B1G wants no part of it. It's not happening.

 

[uconndogs]

If the P5 decide to turn "pro" it will be the P4 because the B1G wants no part of it. It's not happening.

This will be the beginning of a gradual slide and the BiG will have no choice but to go along. I just don't see this being good for the smaller members of the P5. A school like Texas will go down this road a million miles an hour and there is now way a Baylor can even begin to keep up. If they expand the scholarship max, forget about it. All the talent will end up at about 15-20 schools.

 

[HawkHusky]

This will be the beginning of a gradual slide and the BiG will have no choice but to go along. I just don't see this being good for the smaller members of the P5. A school like Texas will go down this road a million miles an hour and there is now way a Baylor can even begin to keep up. If they expand the scholarship max, forget about it. All the talent will end up at about 15-20 schools.

You have to think though that a lot of these good young gun players will realize when they get to a school like Texas and are barely getting out on the field, something's gotta change. Schools like Texas may originally get all the talent, but I also see a lot of transferring taking place when those star kids realize they'll be sitting on the bench more often than not.

In times like these, it's going to be very important to have a coaching staff that can recruit and convince transfers to come aboard. I'm glad UCONN seems to have that in place.

 

[itgoeslike]

We'll see how it all pans out, but it has the potential to rewrite history. For instance, it may prove that the 1980's SMU football program was simply ahead of their time with regard to their pursuit of "autonomy". . .

 

[CL82]

The second-worst case scenario is being permitted to offer those same benefits while having to exist on an American Conference revenue stream. It's like running the Indy 500 with 1/15th of the gasoline that the other cars have. Eventually, we'd crack.

This has been my big fear. Offering more benefits is just another way to distinguish between the have and have nots. Autonomy is, in many ways, a smoke screen. I can see the non P5 saying, well we can't keep up so let them leave (either outright or by a new sub-division) and we'll compete in own division that maintains the integrity of the amateur athletics. Sound familiar? It's how the Ivies became, for the most part, irrelevant in sports.

For the most part I ignore it and focus on the games, but we are watching the emasculating of UConn athletics. It is happening right before our eyes and there is not a damn thing that we can do about it.

 

[noeynox]

This has been my big fear. Offering more benefits is just another way to distinguish between the have and have nots. Autonomy is, in many ways, a smoke screen. I can see the non P5 saying, well we can't keep up so let them leave (either outright or by a new sub-division) and we'll compete in own division that maintains the integrity of the amateur athletics. Sound familiar? It's how the Ivies became, for the most, part irrelevant in sports.

For the most part, I ignore it and focus on the games, but we are watching the emasculating of UConn athletics. It is happening right before our eyes and there is not a damn thing that we can do about it.

This has been my fear since the Louisville to the ACC debacle. We are seriously going to have to consider going independent with a regional network like SNY (they were willing to pay as much for our women's BB as the entire AAC payout from TV). There is no way, barring a huge increase to the AAC in TV contract money, to keep up with the changes. Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong, this is why I'm rooting for Ed O'bannon or is that over?

 

[upstater]

This has been my fear since the Louisville to the ACC debacle. We are seriously going to have to consider going independent with a regional network like SNY (they were willing to pay as much for our women's BB as the entire AAC payout from TV). There is no way, barring a huge increase to the AAC in TV contract money, to keep up with the changes. Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong, this is why I'm rooting for Ed O'bannon or is that over?

O'Bannon never had a chance. This whole thing opens up a can of worms for universities when it comes to students and work-study and assistantships. This is why Emmert is emphasizing they are not employees. But then other students who may be considered employees are actually getting the same forms of recompense (in most cases, a lot less) than the athletes. I can't see how the school distinguishes between athletes, students with TAs or even work-study. AND, an even bigger concern comes when the money they want to give is $5k. Well, the DOE passed a law that says all schools have to list incidentals above fees and tuition (ie. entire cost of attendance) on their websites. In other words, this is a figure that is federally regulated. You can't just list a low number (as most schools do now) and then give the athletes $5k. The stipend for athletes has to correlate to the additional expenses listed. So Uconn is right now listing $850 for additional expenses, with the grand total for in-state students being $23,744 (includes tuition, fees, room & board) while out of state is $42,692.

These schools are going to jack up their estimated cost of attendance (and potentially scare off students) even though the school doesn't actually receive any of the revenue from the "additional costs" category.

I totally get that students will spend extra money on clothes, furniture, blankets, extra meals, travel, transportation on campus, etc., but these are likely costs that students would have also incurred at home as well. Whether you're in college or not, you need transport, food, utilities, a roof over your head, clothes. Only books seem to me an extra expense.

 

[noeynox]

We just gave Bob Diaco, a nice competitive contract for a first year HC. The market is already being reset where what we gave him, will look pretty pedestrian by industry standards in a few years. Dabo Swinney maded 2.2 million last year and is getting bumped up to 3.4 million. No way we can keep up going forward given our current predicament. It was nice for Warde to throw i a barb in there about revenue being added to the core value slide, but the truth is we are so fugged from an athletic department standpoint.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...bo-swinney-receives-a-new-eight-year-contract

 

[noeynox]

Thanks for that simple explanation. I'll admit I have a hard time keeping up with what all this full cost of attendance means. I paid for college with cash and credit cards. Rolled the credit card debt into the first house I bought.

 

[uconnric]

The mothership has weighed in as well.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/s...mull-giving-power-5-conferences-more-autonomy

That's not the mothership, that was Emmert's press release.

 

[kobe]

The ACC is going to need a network if they want to compete with the SEC, B1G and PAC12. They will need to expand into new markets to make that happen. That is the only hope UC and UConn have. I guess there is also an outside shot of Big 12 expansion but I do not see it.

 

[pj]

The stipend thing is going to bite them in the butt eventually. Especially the no power-5 schools. It will result in getting rid of as many men's sports as possible. Either that or somehow funding these without student fees given to the AD. Students are pretty savvy and they realize their money is going to fund the athletic department, but now they're going to realize that their money is funding $5k in cash for all the athletes on campus, not just the revenue sports. Looking at this, the P5 are better off breaking and creating a unique corporation in which the players really are employees, and they get the full cost of an education in cash, then they're allowed to pay the school to go to classes if they want. The P5 want to keep the appearance of sports being related to academics, but really this has become a huge farce and they should just admit it and get on with training players to be professionals, like the rest of the world does.

I like it. This would make the relationship of the universities to their football teams similar to that of Joe's Autobody to a Little League team. It's only defect is that it's an honest system.

 

[upstater]

I like it. This would make the relationship of the universities to their football teams similar to that of Joe's Autobody to a Little League team. It's only defect is that it's an honest system.

Precisely. At this point, this is how it should be. Then you avoid the Title9 questions, and you pay players what the market will bear.

 

[bobbyinaz]

This is true, if the B12 decided to expand by 4 tomorrow I would think UCONN would be a lock. You can't find 4 better options than UCONN and I am not sure you can even find two. UCONN is unique in that they can also make Women's Basketball a money maker for any conference that picks them up.

Unless they add UCF, USF, Cinn & BYU.

My guess is if they do expand it will only be to 12. If that happens it will be one of the Fla schools & Cinn or BYU. We get ducked again

 

[bobbyinaz]

The stipend would probably cost no more than 1 Million per year, UCONN athletics will not be torpedoed by that nor will any team in the AAC. People are forgetting about the exit fee money the AAC is sitting on. Longer term, the next TV contract is unlikely to be as bad but more likely we end up in one of the P5 conferences.

Houston and Tulane are opening up new stadiums in 2014, there is no way they will be playing FCS football in those stadiums.

Even if the AAC does pay the stipend it doesn't guarantee the conference a seat at the playoff table. All it does is give the winner of the conference a "chance" if they are ranked high enough.

Plus the number is probably closer to $2MM. $5000 stipend X 400 athletes. that means that our entire tv contract would go to paying stipends to athletes. Regardless of the exit fee money we can't survive very long trying to play in that world

 

[upstater]

Even if the AAC does pay the stipend it doesn't guarantee the conference a seat at the playoff table. All it does is give the winner of the conference a "chance" if they are ranked high enough.

Plus the number is probably closer to $2MM. $5000 stipend X 400 athletes. that means that our entire tv contract would go to paying stipends to athletes. Regardless of the exit fee money we can't survive very long trying to play in that world

I'm not sure if most P5 universities are going to be able to keep up. Some of the regular students are going to notice what is happening. And yeah, tough for them, but maybe they won't come to the games if they develop an attitude against the sports teams. Then what?

 

[Fishy]

I'm not sure if most P5 universities are going to be able to keep up. Some of the regular students are going to notice what is happening. And yeah, tough for them, but maybe they won't come to the games if they develop an attitude against the sports teams. Then what?

I don't - we'd be long dead in that scenario.

The kicker is that with costs going up, conferences are going to be less willing to split their pie with new additions.

 

[upstater]

I don't - we'd be long dead in that scenario.

The kicker is that with costs going up, conferences are going to be less willing to split their pie with new additions.

Or their older additions. Revenue flows to the top. Some schools are still in position to make some well placed threats (i.e. Florida St., Texas, etc.)