NCAA exploring Big 5 conference autonomy

[Husky25]

Show me net numbers that the NCAA makes on football.

No.

I'm not doing your research for you. I will post this, however:
Each year, about 60 percent of all NCAA revenue is returned directly to the Division I conferences and member institutions. For the 2011-12 fiscal year, that figure was $503 million (62 percent).

$503,000,000 / 62% = $811,290,322.58 total NCAA revenue for 2011/2012.

They aren't making well over $3/4 Billion on Women's Softball and the Penn Relays, I assure you. Division 1 NCAA Football contributes a positive, non-zero amount.

 

[Marty Jackson]

I think exit 4, kind of nails it. The p5, doesn't like gnats like Boise showing up in big bowl games and upsetting the likes of Oklahoma. So to deal with that, create a system where over time it becomes an impossibility for it to happen. Step one, anoint yourself as something better than all the rest. Lets call ourselves the POWER 5. Lets draw a clear line of demarcation between ourselves and everybody else in the eyes of the media and recruits.

Schools with Resources is the new term.

CT with it's second multi-$B infusion I guess doesn't count?

 

[noeynox]

Plus hypothetically, if the P5 decided to have their own hoops tournament the NCAA would no longer be getting a billion dollars from CBS, TNT et al. The majority of TV dollars would go to whatever tournament the P5 stage and the remaining NCAA conferences would essentially be participating in the NIT

Dont agree. A huge part of the ncaa is the cinderella runs. Withouf those the tournament is much less compelling. Its clear the p5, dont want a total split, otherwise they would just do it.

 

[UConn Dan]

No.

I'm not doing your research for you. I will post this, however:
Each year, about 60 percent of all NCAA revenue is returned directly to the Division I conferences and member institutions. For the 2011-12 fiscal year, that figure was $503 million (62 percent).

$503,000,000 / 62% = $811,290,322.58 total NCAA revenue for 2011/2012.

They aren't making well over $3/4 Billion on Women's Softball and the Penn Relays, I assure you. Division 1 NCAA Football contributes a positive, non-zero amount.

Nice try, the NCAA nets 4% and everything goes back to the schools. Seems you need to look up the definitions of revenue vs. net take. The NCAA will will downsize their football compliance department accordingly. I suppose NCAA member schools will take a hit on their distribution -- now if you want to talk about the membership not liking it, that's another story.


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6756472/following-ncaa-money
The NCAA says 96 percent of its annual revenue is returned to its member schools either in direct payments or in programs and services.

[+] Enlarge
Al Bello/Getty Images Nearly 60 percent of NCAA president Mark Emmert's 2010-11 operating budget revenue will be distributed directly to its Division I members.
According to the NCAA, it spends $30.6 million -- about 4 percent of its entire budget -- on administrative expenses and staff salaries.

 

[frankthetank]

Plus hypothetically, if the P5 decided to have their own hoops tournament the NCAA would no longer be getting a billion dollars from CBS, TNT et al. The majority of TV dollars would go to whatever tournament the P5 stage and the remaining NCAA conferences would essentially be participating in the NIT

Yes, it's still a MUCH bigger threat for the P5 to leave than the other way around. Sure, the P5-only basketball tournament wouldn't receive as much in total as the NCAA Tournament, but as I've said many times with respect to the football playoff discussions, TOTAL DOLLARS DON'T MATTER. What matters is how the money is SPLIT. The majority of the NCAA Tournament money first goes toward the NCAA for administration costs and then every Division I conference gets a cut. The P5's perspective (whether you agree with it or not) is that it's a raw deal for them financially - they'll argue that the only reason why the Cinderella aspect of the NCAA Tournament has any value is that the P5 is providing the Goliaths that David can attempt to slay. I'd go so far as to say that the P5's experience with NCAA Tournament revenue sharing is exactly why they do NOT want anything to do with something similar for football and, even more than short-term money, must have complete control over the postseason football system above all else. If the P5 could get a basketball tournament where they'd receive 100% of the revenue, then they don't give a crap if they still end up with larger shares compared to the more egalitarian NCAA Tournament (and furthermore if it indirectly increases the value of their own regular season basketball TV packages compared to now).

 

[Husky25]

Plus hypothetically, if the P5 decided to have their own hoops tournament the NCAA would no longer be getting a billion dollars from CBS, TNT et al. The majority of TV dollars would go to whatever tournament the P5 stage and the remaining NCAA conferences would essentially be participating in the NIT

The NCAA would have to agree to renegotiate unless there is a buyout option or a clause for renegotiation specifically referring to certain terms. (I assume there is. The NCAA might be publicly thought of as inept bumbling idiots, but their lawyer's aren't and niether are CBS's...but still). Otherwise CBS is bound to fulfill their obligation. The NCAA could argue that they are a 1,000 member school organization and the 65 that left do not materially affect that population. CBS would have their arguments as well and it would get tied up in court for years, if not decades.

 

[bobbyinaz]

Dont agree. A huge part of the ncaa is the cinderella runs. Withouf those the tournament is much less compelling. Its clear the p5, dont want a total split, otherwise they would just do it.

I agree that the Cinderella runs is what makes the tournament so special but if you think CBS is paying a billion dollars to the NCAA for a tournament that doesn't include Kentucky, Kansas, Carolina, Duke etc. you are crazy.

The P5 don't want a split because what they are asking for is the best of all worlds for them. They get to make their own rules, they get to keep all the money from the football playoffs & they get to participate in all the other NCAA tournaments.

If they don't get their way a split could happen. Everyone says they could never get away with it because they aren't giving everyone a fair shot but the reality is that instead of calling anything a National Championship all they have to do is call it the "P5 Championship" and then there are no exclusion issues. If you are not a member of the P5, you are not eligible to participate in their championship

 

[Carl Spackler]

Schools with Resources is the new term.

CT with it's second multi-$B infusion I guess doesn't count?

Forgot the word 'television'. "Schools with TELEVISION resources." And more specifically, it should be "Schools with TELEVISED FOOTBALL resources."

THe Power 5 terminology is a media thing, that the NCAA has adopted. Television media around football........

 

[Exit 4]

I think the autonomy is really about the Power 5 wanting to remove roadblocks so that they can do what they want to do as opposed to preventing other conferences from taking the same measures. If the AAC or MWC actually wanted to adopt the same exact measures as the Power 5, then I believe that you're right that the Power 5 can't stop them from doing it. However, the point is that the AAC and MWC will not have any voice in *blocking* the Power 5 on those issues as they do now. In an extreme example, if the Power 5 want to start paying players six-figure salaries and call it "cost of attendance", they don't want the AAC or MWC to have any say in preventing them from doing so. However, if the AAC and MWC decide on their own that they want to start paying the same salaries, they can go ahead and do it.

In my opinion, it is as much about creating permanent separation to avoid future Boise States than it is about issues "unique to the P5 athlete." Creating a cash stipend and a separate P5 administered policing authority will certainly add more bricks to the wall and that's the idea.

 

[Husky25]

Nice try, the NCAA nets 4% and everything goes back to the schools. Seems you need to look up the definitions of revenue vs. net take. The NCAA will will downsize their football compliance department accordingly. I suppose NCAA member schools will take a hit on their distribution -- now if you want to talk about the membership not liking it, that's another story.


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6756472/following-ncaa-money
The NCAA says 96 percent of its annual revenue is returned to its member schools either in direct payments or in programs and services.

[+] Enlarge
Al Bello/Getty Images Nearly 60 percent of NCAA president Mark Emmert's 2010-11 operating budget revenue will be distributed directly to its Division I members.
According to the NCAA, it spends $30.6 million -- about 4 percent of its entire budget -- on administrative expenses and staff salaries.

Nice try, what?

Funny. My link goes right to the NCAA.org website. Yours references ESPN and person who most people don't trust as far as they can throw him. Be that as it may: $30,600,000 / 4% = $765,000,000. And technically, a not-for-profit organization makes exactly $0.00. By law, it must pay out or restrict for future use all proceeds over expense. They do this by contributing to Internal Funds. So by posting the NCAA's Administration fund is 4% of their budgeted revenue does really move the needle for me.

BTW I don't know exactly how much the Football Compliance department makes as a whole, but I'm guessing it isn't that much in comparison to $30 Million/year. The NCAA will lose 10s of $millions more in revenue than they save in compliance salary expense.

 

[ZooCougar]

Honestly, I don't see how all of the schools in P5 are going to be able to afford what the so called group of 10-15 schools want to do. I am not sure that the math is there in terms of increased TV revenue making that happen.

This move will only expose the next level of fissures among the P5.

 

[UConn Dan]

Nice try, what?

Funny. My link goes right to the NCAA.org website. Yours references ESPN and person who most people don't trust as far as they can throw him. Be that as it may: $30,600,000 / 4% = $765,000,000. And technically, a not-for-profit organization makes exactly $0.00. By law, it must pay out or restrict for future use all proceeds over expense. They do this by contributing to Internal Funds. So by posting the NCAA's Administration fund is 4% of their budgeted revenue does really move the needle for me.

BTW I don't know exactly how much the Football Compliance department makes as a whole, but I'm guessing it isn't that much in comparison to $30 Million/year. The NCAA will lose 10s of $millions more in revenue than they save in compliance salary expense.

You bring up that the NCAA makes money on football, but you aren't providing any evidence other than saying that you take 1 billion football tickets x $25 per ticket goes to the NCAA and they make billions of dollars (exaggeration is intentional). The NCAA makes most of its money from the NCAA tournament TV contract - it can survive without "sanctioning" the football regular season.

 

[bobbyinaz]

Honestly, I don't see how all of the schools in P5 are going to be able to afford what the so called group of 10-15 schools want to do. I am not sure that the math is there in terms of increased TV revenue making that happen.

This move will only expose the next level of fissures among the P5.

The tv contract for the playoff is nearly $500MM per year with virtually all of it going to the P5 conferences. That means that every P5 school will make an additional $3-4MM per year just from the playoff payout. This is before they collect their $20+MM from the conference contract

If a P5 school averages 400 student athletes & pays a "stipend" of $5000 they pay out $2MM in "stipends". The $2MM they would have to pay out in order to ensure separation is a smart business move for them

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ollege-playoff-for-470m-per-year-through-2025

 

[ZooCougar]

The tv contract for the playoff is nearly $500MM per year with virtually all of it going to the P5 conferences. That means that every P5 school will make an additional $3-4MM per year just from the playoff payout. This is before they collect their $20+MM from the conference contract

If a P5 school averages 400 student athletes & pays a "stipend" of $5000 they pay out $2MM in "stipends". The $2MM they would have to pay out in order to ensure separation is a smart business move for them

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ollege-playoff-for-470m-per-year-through-2025

If you are a P5 school that is already operating at a loss then when this all shakes out they will still be operating at a loss.

 

[huskymedic]

Stefanie Loh‏@StefanieLoh
58% supports autonomy for the Big 5 conferences at NCAA Convention #d1talk pic.twitter.com/TnWAujxdKr

 

[Exit 4]

Stefanie Loh‏@StefanieLoh
58% supports autonomy for the Big 5 conferences at NCAA Convention #d1talk pic.twitter.com/TnWAujxdKr

View attachment 4788

Well, that nearly sinks the AAC battleship. Time to see if we can take harbor with the MWC & BYU.

 

[Penfield]

I'm definitely going to find Mark Emmert's house and poop in his cheerios

 

[bobbyinaz]

If you are a P5 school that is already operating at a loss then when this all shakes out they will still be operating at a loss.

The majority of schools are already losing money. That is not going to change

This article says the ACC paid out $16.9MM for 2011-2012. http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2013/05/acc-schools-averaged-169m-payout.html

The new ESPN contract will pay out $20MM plus the playoff money will be another $3-4MM = $23-24MM

So again, the question is are you willing to pay an extra $2MM to make an extra $7MM?

What is a school like Wake Forest going to do? Say no, we would rather leave the ACC & join the ACC so we can make $2MM per year.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I want to see the survey question results for the following question - 'Mark Emmert is egotistical fool that only cares about his own PR image and will throw anyone under the bus to save that image and to avoid taking responsibility for his actions and should be fired.’

 

[Carl Spackler]

There isn't enough info in that tweet. Come on. What is question 8 and how did they get that answer? Who answered? When?

The classic rule of government, is that if you can't get something passed through a legislature - change the rules.

The 5 chosen tribes of Bristol, are simply trying to change the rules. The rest of the tribes of the world, need to be constantly on watch and aware.

 

[huskymedic]

There isn't enough info in that tweet. Come on. What is question 8 and how did they get that answer? Who answered? When? .

Today...

slmandel1:49pm via TweetDeck
Correction: 58 percent of the room voted they "strongly support" or "support" autonomy for the Big 5.#NCAAConv

 

[Husky25]

You bring up that the NCAA makes money on football, but you aren't providing any evidence other than saying that you take 1 billion football tickets x $25 per ticket goes to the NCAA and they make billions of dollars (exaggeration is intentional). The NCAA makes most of its money from the NCAA tournament TV contract - it can survive without "sanctioning" the football regular season.

The net number doesn't appear to publicly exist on its own and I'm not looking any deeper. That is why I'm trying to back into it. As I said, I have neither the time nor inclination to do your research. I will buy your TV contract point only because it is reasonable on its face according to the math ($10.8 Billion / 14 = $771,000/yr). That said, and Football being the only other revenue generating sport, Football contributes in the neighborhood of $40 Million/year. But the NCAA's revenue streams do not exist in a vacuum either.

Now that you bring up the TV Contract, there is a specific clause that says the NCAA will not amend its rules in any of a series of ways "to the extent such amendment causes a material adverse effect on Broadcaster." "...and, in a phrasing that is not completed because of omitted pages, "the creation of another postseason Division I men's basketball tournament that materially diminishes the status" ... I think the P5 breaking off from the NCAA in a manner that member schools may no longer be in the Tournament adversely affects the Broadcaster.

Hypothetically, say the p5 segregates itself in football only. How does the NCAA allows them back under the umbrella for other sports including basketball? The NCAA becomes a paper tiger slaving to the whim of the P5. It is a slippery slope from there to other institutions outright ignoring their "governing body" because there are 2 different explicitly stated sets of rules for these 65 arbitrarily thrown together teams vs. the other 1100 universities (Oh yeah, we're still talking about not-for-profit institutions of higher learning, no?).

So there goes that $40 Million plus a severely negative renegotiation to the Basketball Tournament contract.

If anything truly significant is to happen, I foresee a bevy of anti-trust suits coming to pass. It's a bad time for College sports, regardless if UConn is invited to the Big Ten or ACC).

 

[metsfan2323]

Nobody should confuse "autonomy" with "breaking away". Autonomy just means the P5 are going to have the power to make rules free from interference from other leagues.

The AAC will pay the stipend to their athletes and continue to compete at the highest level. I think the big question is will the MAC conference drop down to FCS. If they do it just means less recruiting competition for the AAC.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Today...

slmandel1:49pm via TweetDeck
Correction: 58 percent of the room voted they "strongly support" or "support" autonomy for the Big 5.#NCAAConv

Nope. Not good enough. This is how this garbage internet info ends up spreading like wildfire and turning into garbage information. Where did mandel get his info from to tweet? Was it the same photo/tweet?

I still don't know what the question was, and who answered. That the question was asked today? Misinformation. Where is Mandel's info from? What is he correcting anyway? I looked at his twitter page - can't figure it out.

 

[huskymedic]

Nope. Not good enough. This is how this garbage internet info ends up spreading like wildfire and turning into garbage information. Where did mandel get his info from to tweet? Was it the same photo/tweet?

I still don't know what the question was, and who answered. That the question was asked today? Misinformation. Where is Mandel's info from?

Okay - ignore it. I made it up.

He was in the room! Keep up. Go look for other sources. Geez!