NBA Playoffs

[superjohn]

Massive choke by Warriors.

 

[nomar]

First team to 100 wins 93 percent of the time.

Lawler's Law Tracker - First to 100 wins!

 

[nomar]

CP looks like he's done for the series with that facial expression.

He needs some Mr. Miyagi magic on that hammy

 

[Scoe]

What a choke job that was by Green he had Curry looking right at the basket wouldve been a 30 footer but its Curry and Thompson in the corner, game had a Rockets feel to it the whole way, would really suck for CP3 to be out.

 

[Scoe]

Lawler's Law Tracker - First to 100 wins!

Its the law!!!!!

 

[superjohn]

I can't stand Harden but really hope Paul can play, they deserve to win the series. Warriors were too cool for school last game and didn't show up. You don't do that in the playoffs.

 

[auror]

 

[nomar]

Also, to win those games, they need to score more points then their opponents. And to do that they have to put the round orange thing through the circle. Thanks Gary!

 

[auror]

Also, to win those games, they need to score more points then their opponents. And to do that they have to put the round orange thing through the circle. Thanks Gary!

Ignore his dumb reportersplaining.

The fact that neither the Warriors and Cavs are currently favored to make the Finals is pretty remarkable.

 

[nomar]

Ignore his dumb reportersplaining.

The fact that neither the Warriors and Cavs are currently favored to make the Finals is pretty remarkable.

Hey, home court advantage is important!

 

[UCDaveD]

Ignore his dumb reportersplaining.

The fact that neither the Warriors and Cavs are currently favored to make the Finals is pretty remarkable.

GSW still favored to win the series at -115. Houston -105

 

[champs99and04]

I need to rant for a minute after that game.

- First, who decided it would be a good idea to ask about the Santa Fe shooting 30 seconds after a heart-pounding finish that may determine the champion? The guy can barely catch his breath and is charged with all the adrenaline in the world after arguably the most important game of his life. It's not that the broadcast is unworthy of that subplot, it's that you're trivializing the scope of the tragedy by trying to jam it into made-for-TV moment. Harden answered it a lot more gracefully than I would have, but TNT should still be embarrassed in my opinion.

- I knew the sport was heading this way but it's still staggering to see the best two teams in the league switching literally everything on every possession. "Solved basketball" is a good way to put it as @auror did - it's not always aesthetically pleasing, but I don't think we should confuse it for "bad basketball" or "sloppy basketball." It is sloppy basketball induced by a full-circle evolution in half-court defense. Four years ago, we watched the Spurs play some of the prettiest basketball of all-time by slicing up Miami's trapping schemes. Right now we are watching some of the ugliest basketball ever because all the math and all the rules have gone so far towards one extreme that it's brought us back to the playground. You'd rather let Chris Paul accost Kevin Durant in the mid-post than let Steph slip through a broken hedge and find Klay for an open three, even if everything you've ever been taught tells you that defending Kevin Durant with Chris Paul is stupid. The league is absolutely complicit in facilitating this transformation because of how much contact is allowed in the post compared to the perimeter. We may finally have reached the overcorrection that compels them to scale back on that initiative.

- I've been wrong about this series because I underestimated the shotmaking skills of Houston's guards (Harden is in a nasty slump, but Paul, Gordon, and Green shot 10 of 24 from three to keep them above water). They're not one-trick ponies who catch and shoot in rhythm - they're nailing step-back threes and contested threes at a rate that has surpassed Durant's contested twos.

- Speaking of, the Rockets have dared KD to beat them and he has not. Their entire strategy was to make him a one-dimensional player and they have mostly succeeded. He has ten assists in five games, six of which came in a blowout game three, and he has shot just 17 of 46 over the last two games. He did get to the line ten times tonight, but you get the strange feeling when watching that Golden State has reached a point of diminishing returns with their roster as currently constituted. When you're playing strictly iso ball, the whole "one ball" thing applies. Steph Curry isn't any more valuable than Eric Gordon if he's watching KD post up. That's why it has appalled me to see Houston beat Golden State at their own game - Curry is turning down the chance to do the things Paul and Harden are doing to win games even though he's arguably better than them at those things. That has to kill him.

- The Warriors still had a chance to win and they simply puked on themselves for the second straight game. Quinn Cook had the chance to hit one of the biggest shots maybe in NBA history and he couldn't even catch the pass cleanly. That's just nerves, that's just not being ready for that moment. One possession later, Curry had the chance to get Cook that exact shot but he took a tough banker because he didn't trust him. Then there was Draymond butchering the last sequence. The shot clock violation, though, is what I'll remember. I mean, I don't want to turn into a sports radio host, but 2:45 remaining, down three, four of the most skilled players in the world, and you can't...even...get...off...a shot. Bad.

- Golden State should be able to win without Iguodala, but man are they better with him. If you replace those West/Looney/Bell minutes with him, you're much better equipped to switch across the board. Bell, in particular, is a player I really like but who is targeted relentlessly by Houston on switches. He held up OK a couple times, and they hit tough shots, but he's a rookie who can't deal with savvy vets like Paul and Harden one on one. Which brings me to my final point...

- Steve Kerr needs to be better. Nobody is a bigger proponent of liberal switching schemes than me, but you don't need to do at it all five positions, especially when a lot of the time Houston's just going through the motions knowing what you're going to do. At least make them earn it. You're doing them a favor by retreating so quickly into a last resort alignment when they're not even coming with a hard screen. You're telling me you can't string out their action for a few seconds late in the shot clock while they try to lull you into the match-up they want? You can't make Capella or Ariza think in the middle of the floor with seven seconds on the clock? Lack of imagination from Golden State has hurt them in these situations.

If Chris Paul can't go game six or seven, maybe this is all moot. It isn't so much that they'd be losing Chris Paul - though that wouldn't help - as much as it is that they're dangerously short on depth as it is. Asking them to fend off a historic team with six or seven guys is a lot as it is; take Paul away and suddenly Harden basically has to play all 48 minutes and create everything. That's simply not viable.

 

[JustbrewitMan]

To some extent it is "solved" basketball, which makes any game a little boring.

Mid 2nd quarter and on this game has been fun.

This is one of the best descriptions of the current state of basketball and it essentially mirrors what happened to the game of poker (esp online poker) over the last ~15 years following the "Moneymaker boom" in 2003.

Use of advanced game theory principles and the ability to use stat-trackers and to display them in real-time (heads-up displays [HUDs]) allowed players with strong game theory and math backgrounds to essentially play exploitative poker versus bad players ("the fish") and to play optimal poker versus other good players ("the sharks"). Once the bad players bankrolls were busted (and if they weren't, they just stopped playing because game theory-based poker isn't really fun entertainment), the strong players are faced to battle each other in a game that's essentially break-even...except the casino rake slowly drains off the player's bankrolls.

Many online casinos/poker sites have banned HUDs, created anonymous tables, and enacted other rules to remove as much of the game-theory based edge as possible. The NBA (and NCAA) will probably have to consider implementing some significant rule adjustments to combat the "solved game" pitfalls that we're starting to see.

 

[the Q]

This is one of the best descriptions of the current state of basketball and it essentially mirrors what happened to the game of poker (esp online poker) over the last ~15 years following the "Moneymaker boom" in 2003.

Use of advanced game theory principles and the ability to use stat-trackers and to display them in real-time (heads-up displays [HUDs]) allowed players with strong game theory and math backgrounds to essentially play exploitative poker versus bad players ("the fish") and to play optimal poker versus other good players ("the sharks"). Once the bad players bankrolls were busted (and if they weren't, they just stopped playing because game theory-based poker isn't really fun entertainment), the strong players are faced to battle each other in a game that's essentially break-even...except the casino rake slowly drains off the player's bankrolls.

Many online casinos/poker sites have banned HUDs, created anonymous tables, and enacted other rules to remove as much of the game-theory based edge as possible. The NBA (and NCAA) will probably have to consider implementing some significant rule adjustments to combat the "solved game" pitfalls that we're starting to see.

That’s interesting because the rules already heavily favor the offense and they don’t even call travels and carries anywhere close to as much as they should.

 

[Lefty2one]

I can't recall an uglier game with so much offensive talent on the floor. How does GSW lose a game where Harden goes 5/21, 0/11 from deep, and six turnovers to four dimes? Good lord.

 

[Lefty2one]

That’s interesting because the rules already heavily favor the offense and they don’t even call travels and carries anywhere close to as much as they should.

Not to mention maybe 1 in 25 moving screens get called.

 

[the Q]

Not to mention maybe 1 in 25 moving screens get called.

I have watched 5 minutes of NBA basketball since the completely rigged game 7 in 2010.

The last 2 minutes of game 7 2016 (it would be historic no matter what), and Tim Duncan’s last game (wanted to make sure he was leaving, finally).

In that spurs game there was at least 8 moving screens in that final 3 minutes. It was absurd. And unsafe.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Responded to this tangentially above, but why are you assuming Durant is going to leave? I don't see it. I see him and Klay (who's rumored to be willing to take a pay cut) working together to keep that club together.

My point about starting was more about positions than anything. Nobody on the planet is starting over Durant, except LeBron if you had to. Nobody on the Celtics could start over Green, because as you say, he's unique. Jaylen is not starting over Klay, even though you clearly like him. He's not remotely the shooter, he's not a better defender at this point.

The controversial statement is that idk if Kyrie would start! You really gonna put him in over Curry? I wouldn't. And he doesn't add what Klay adds at the two.

Again, my point was about mixture and fit of players.

Big Al is the one guy who would start at one of the post positions.

jmo

Very Fair. I would start Kyrie over Curry. I think he does a lot more. Curry would be an undersized shooting guard on a team that didn't have Draymond Green taking most of the PG assist duties. I think on most teams it wouldn't even be close. I'll say it another way, Curry couldn't start over Kyrie for Boston (they'd probably play him at the 2 over Brown or Smart though).

But that's a great example of why I think GS is more than the sum of its parts. I think Boston is too. Both teams are constructed intelligently to maximize the value of their players. Could a Celtic start over Draymond Green for GS? No. But I'm not sure Green could start over Tatum/Hayward for a fully healthy Boston, given what they need at that spot. GS doesn't need the scoring there and Boston does.

I really hope they get to the finals together, because they are really good "teams", not just collections of players. Philly right now is a collection of players. They are worse than their talent as a result.

 

[HuskyHawk]

A note on GS vs. Houston. GS has scored 119 and 124 in wins. Anything less than that and they have lost (highest was 105).
I find that interesting.

 

[ihatepants]

No team has more "we get to play a team that isn't at full strength" luck than the Warriors.

 

[Yardigan]

Warriors have a 5 on 4 with Curry, Klay, Durant, and Draymond on the floor and Quinn Cook takes the shot. I don't care how open he is, it's Quinn freakin' Cook.

LOL...funny...I stepped away from the game for a bit and came back to see him take that shot and had to ask my son..."Who was THAT?" "Quinn Cook" "Why's he shooting??"

 

[intlzncster]

No team has more "we get to play a team that isn't at full strength" luck than the Warriors.

Yeah, Paul definitely out Game 6 and probably (imo) game 7. His face when they were winning at the end was stone cold dead. That's a killer blow. Harden didn't look remotely capable of carrying them against the Warriors D on his own. Thompson is going to be all over him.

To top it off, Iguodala very well could be back for Game 6 as well.

 

[Walker11]

I have watched 5 minutes of NBA basketball since the completely rigged game 7 in 2010.

The last 2 minutes of game 7 2016 (it would be historic no matter what), and Tim Duncan’s last game (wanted to make sure he was leaving, finally).

In that spurs game there was at least 8 moving screens in that final 3 minutes. It was absurd. And unsafe.

Is there something I am missing here?

 

[the Q]

Is there something I am missing here?

Illegal screens need to be called. They're unsafe.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Yeah, Paul definitely out Game 6 and probably (imo) game 7. His face when they were winning at the end was stone cold dead. That's a killer blow. Harden didn't look remotely capable of carrying them against the Warriors D on his own. Thompson is going to be all over him.

To top it off, Iguodala very well could be back for Game 6 as well.

Game 6 was a wash anyway, hopefully they are holding him out with a hope that miraculous rehab gives him a possibility of going in game 7. Rockets will just take a zillion 3's in game 6 with hope of puncher's chance to shoot the lights out, but mostly its just a punt and run back to Houston for game 7. Really hope Paul is able to play.

 

[superjohn]

Illegal screens need to be called. They're unsafe.

Agreed but don't really see it as a new problem, basically every screen I ever saw Garnett and Ewing set were illegal.

 

[the Q]

Agreed but don't really see it as a new problem, basically every screen I ever saw Garnett and Ewing set were illegal.

I could say the same thing about travels and carries.

Just means the NBA is either incompetent or they like superstars getting away with even more advantages.

 

[superjohn]

No team has more "we get to play a team that isn't at full strength" luck than the Warriors.

Yeah but Warriors haven't exactly ever been at full strength when they've lost.

 

[ihatepants]

Yeah but Warriors haven't exactly ever been at full strength when they've lost.

They lost once, two years ago, partly because Draymond Green missed one game because he’s either an idiot who can’t control his limbs enough to avoid kicking people in the junk or is just stupid for doing that on purpose when people are watching for it because it was brought up in a previous series. He was also back for the deciding game of the series, so you can’t exactly say they weren’t at full strength when they had a shot to win.

Edit: I forgot about Bogut, but he was like the 8th most important player on that 2016 team. He had 60 minutes played total in the 5 games he actually played in.

 

[Rocktheworld]

They lost once, two years ago, partly because Draymond Green missed one game because he’s either an idiot who can’t control his limbs enough to avoid kicking people in the junk or is just stupid for doing that on purpose when people are watching for it because it was brought up in a previous series. He was also back for the deciding game of the series, so you can’t exactly say they weren’t at full strength when they had a shot to win.

Edit: I forgot about Bogut, but he was like the 8th most important player on that 2016 team. He had 60 minutes played total in the 5 games he actually played in.

And who was hurt when they went down 3-1 to OKC?