NBA Playoffs

[Yardigan]

Missing these dunks are a killer.

And the trying to force shots when triple-covered is a bit of a drag on success as well....

 

[champs99and04]

Even after the Celtics went up 2-0, I didn't expect them to win in Cleveland. But you'd hope for a better showing than this. Assuming things continue this way, these are two textbook wire-to-wire beatdowns in a row. Let's see what they have in the second half.

 

[tzznandrew]

 

[champs99and04]

I don't want to immediately jump on the officiating any time there are a lot of fouls, because sometimes it's the players, but in any case this third quarter has been a slosh.

 

[champs99and04]

Durant ruined the NBA for a few years. No doubt.

And he made a fake twitter account to defend himself. Snowflake city.

By next season, I think it will be unruined. Philly and Boston will be good enough that the ECF won't feel like a bronze metal game.

 

[intlzncster]

By next season, I think it will be unruined. Philly and Boston will be good enough that the ECF won't feel like a bronze metal game.

If one of them gets LeBron

 

[champs99and04]

If one of them gets LeBron

Boston is good enough without him.

 

[Dogdeacon]

LeBron isn't going to Philly. Unless he radically changes his game to play PF or sit on wing and let Simmons handle the ball and Embid roam the paint, LeBron's game is not going to work with a PG that can't shoot and a dominant big man. Likewise Houston has two primary ballhandlers. LeBron is going to LA.

Kawhi is likely the interesting & widely available piece that teams that are close, Philly, Boston, Houston & LA will compete for. Who can or will make the best offer (and if its Boston it cannot include either of injured guys)?

I fear Cleveland is beating the Celtics in 6 or 7 unless LeBron runs out of gas. Right now he's energized their defense and they are going to have a chance in 4thQ tomorrow night. Game 6 is almost a guaranteed victory in Cleveland. So to win the series the Celtics likely will need to out-execute the Cavs in games 5 and 7 PLUS hope that LeBron doesn't do something extraordinary at the end. Even though the Cavs benefitted from pushing the pace the last two games, if I'm Stevens I try to push it even more at home and get LeBron cramping & sucking air. Its all about beating LeBron in the 4th Q's now.

 

[the Q]

LeBron isn't going to Philly. Unless he radically changes his game to play PF or sit on wing and let Simmons handle the ball and Embid roam the paint, LeBron's game is not going to work with a PG that can't shoot and a dominant big man. Likewise Houston has two primary ballhandlers. LeBron is going to LA.

Kawhi is likely the interesting & widely available piece that teams that are close, Philly, Boston, Houston & LA will compete for. Who can or will make the best offer (and if its Boston it cannot include either of injured guys)?

I fear Cleveland is beating the Celtics in 6 or 7 unless LeBron runs out of gas. Right now he's energized their defense and they are going to have a chance in 4thQ tomorrow night. Game 6 is almost a guaranteed victory in Cleveland. So to win the series the Celtics likely will need to out-execute the Cavs in games 5 and 7 PLUS hope that LeBron doesn't do something extraordinary at the end. Even though the Cavs benefitted from pushing the pace the last two games, if I'm Stevens I try to push it even more at home and get LeBron cramping & sucking air. Its all about beating LeBron in the 4th Q's now.

The question for Bron in LA is....who goes with him? LBJ and PG13 isn't enough.

Now if they could also make a S&T for Cousins......maybe they get interesting. But even then.....is it enough? Doubtful.

 

[tzznandrew]

The question for Bron in LA is....who goes with him? LBJ and PG13 isn't enough.

Now if they could also make a S&T for Cousins.maybe they get interesting. But even then.....is it enough? Doubtful.

There's nowhere but Houston, Boston, Philly, or San Antonio (with Kawhi staying) that gets him over the hump. Maybe New Orleans.

 

[HuskyHawk]

LeBron isn't going to Philly. Unless he radically changes his game to play PF or sit on wing and let Simmons handle the ball and Embid roam the paint, LeBron's game is not going to work with a PG that can't shoot and a dominant big man. Likewise Houston has two primary ballhandlers. LeBron is going to LA.

Kawhi is likely the interesting & widely available piece that teams that are close, Philly, Boston, Houston & LA will compete for. Who can or will make the best offer (and if its Boston it cannot include either of injured guys)?

I fear Cleveland is beating the Celtics in 6 or 7 unless LeBron runs out of gas. Right now he's energized their defense and they are going to have a chance in 4thQ tomorrow night. Game 6 is almost a guaranteed victory in Cleveland. So to win the series the Celtics likely will need to out-execute the Cavs in games 5 and 7 PLUS hope that LeBron doesn't do something extraordinary at the end. Even though the Cavs benefitted from pushing the pace the last two games, if I'm Stevens I try to push it even more at home and get LeBron cramping & sucking air. Its all about beating LeBron in the 4th Q's now.

That's a fair assessment. The Celtics did that in game 2. Lebron had a triple double, but the Cavs ran out of gas and the C's hit shots. Last night, the C's had all the chances in the world, kept getting it to 8, and simply didn't hit open looks or make the stops. Had they tied it up late, the Cavs might have unraveled a bit.

 

[the Q]

There's nowhere but Houston, Boston, Philly, or San Antonio (with Kawhi staying) that gets him over the hump. Maybe New Orleans.

NO is impossible due to cap.

Houston would require some cap gymnastics and finding someone to take both Gordon and Anderson.

Philly isn't a great fit stylistically, but interesting. (Philly could alos get Bron and then use simmons to trump all kawhi offers....not saying they will or should, just throwing it out there).

I know the answer...






...Golden State.

 

[tzznandrew]

NO is impossible due to cap.

Houston would require some cap gymnastics and finding someone to take both Gordon and Anderson.

Philly isn't a great fit stylistically, but interesting. (Philly could alos get Bron and then use simmons to trump all kawhi offers....not saying they will or should, just throwing it out there).

I know the answer...






...Golden State.

Exactly right on NO, and Philly, too. I was just imagining teams that, currently constructed or with the addition of LeBron and maybe PG could compete. I just don't see, say, LeBron-George-Ball-Ingram getting past a healthy GS. They might not get past Houston.

 

[the Q]

Exactly right on NO, and Philly, too. I was just imagining teams that, currently constructed or with the addition of LeBron and maybe PG could compete. I just don't see, say, LeBron-George-Ball-Ingram getting past a healthy GS. They might not get past Houston.

Oh I got you.

And agreed on LAL. they need Cousins in that mix. But it would have to be a S&T. And i don't know if they could even pull that off.

I think he somehow ends up in houston.

But don't ask me how they get it done, or how much money Chris Paul has to sacrifice to make it happen.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Oh I got you.

And agreed on LAL. they need Cousins in that mix. But it would have to be a S&T. And i don't know if they could even pull that off.

I think he somehow ends up in houston.

But don't ask me how they get it done, or how much money Chris Paul has to sacrifice to make it happen.

Until the draft it's hard to see what happens. But I wouldn't rule out a team doing what Ainge did when he brought in Garnett and Allen. Could a team like the Lakers sign Lebron and swing a trade for Leonard?

 

[the Q]

Until the draft it's hard to see what happens. But I wouldn't rule out a team doing what Ainge did when he brought in Garnett and Allen. Could a team like the Lakers sign Lebron and swing a trade for Leonard?

The problem with S&Ts now is the rules are more strict.

Whcih ironically has just hurt the teams losing the star players more than before.

Detroit won a title because they were able to S&T grant hill (and Danny Ainge did them a favor facilitating a deal for Rasheed).

 

[Dogdeacon]

At some point LeBron has to either be willing to 'only' be amongst the top-8 ish teams in contention and not a finals favorite OR do one-year mercenary contracts and team hop to an unprecedented, possibly legacy spoiling degree. He truly doesn't need the money (although he wants to build a massive empire, so I guess he does) so there is a world where he goes to Houston for just 18-19 because he wants to topple the Warriors whilst their current roster is intact, then 19-20 maybe tries to win one with Anthony Davis and then joins whoever he likes or fits with better between Philly & Boston etc...

But I don't think that's the case/plan due to image, $ and empire building. LeBron needs to resign himself to see the big picture and embrace a long-term approach of 3-5 years of contention. So he goes to LA with PG13 accepting they probably can't win immediately but over the next few years they use LA to recruit & amass a roster of young and old guys that can contend with Philly-Boston in 2020-23 as the final chapter of his career. The West is wide open after the Warriors become unable to pay all 4 in 19-20, so just skip next year although still have a contending roster. The big picture is LeBron and his teams CANNOT keep making decisions based only on THIS year of contention because that isn't sustainable and it ultimately leaves a dumpster fire like Cleveland Part 1 & soon to be Part II that he has to flee.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I could absolutely see LeBron in Philly.

The big argument against Philly is LeBron’s role in the offense. Apparently he is very interested in playing more off-ball. We assume that LeBron prefers to dominate the ball but in reality he has done that out of necessity more than anything his whole career.

Simmons is clearly the point for Philly but he isn’t a ball-dominant guard through whom the entire offense runs like with Russ, or Harden before this summer’s acquisitions, or Kyrie, or LeBron right now. He’s a ball mover and a facilitator who just gets the offense going. I think LeBron with his elite court vision, basketball IQ, general knowledge of how his movement affects the defense’s shifting and rotation in relation to the ball, and passing ability would make him deadly coming off the wing from a kick-out or swing pass; competent 3-point shooter, can cut or drive and finish, can make that second or third or even fourth pass. Not to mention his mere presence on the wing will keep a defender out, opening passing/driving lanes for Simmons and Embiid. He would still be the best and most important player, but he will do it in a different way without having to dominate the ball. Then on the defensive end he will have more energy as well.

And then Simmons gets to develop with that kind of offensive weapon.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I could absolutely see LeBron in Philly.

The big argument against Philly is LeBron’s role in the offense. Apparently he is very interested in playing more off-ball. We assume that LeBron prefers to dominate the ball but in reality he has done that out of necessity more than anything his whole career.

Simmons is clearly the point for Philly but he isn’t a ball-dominant guard through whom the entire offense runs like with Russ, or Harden before this summer’s acquisitions, or Kyrie, or LeBron right now. He’s a ball mover and a facilitator who just gets the offense going. I think LeBron with his elite court vision, basketball IQ, general knowledge of how his movement affects the defense’s shifting and rotation in relation to the ball, and passing ability would make him deadly coming off the wing from a kick-out or swing pass; competent 3-point shooter, can cut or drive and finish, can make that second or third or even fourth pass. Not to mention his mere presence on the wing will keep a defender out, opening passing/driving lanes for Simmons and Embiid. He would still be the best and most important player, but he will do it in a different way without having to dominate the ball. Then on the defensive end he will have more energy as well.

And then Simmons gets to develop with that kind of offensive weapon.

You are right that last 2yrs crazy high usage rates of Harden (36.1%, 34.1%) & Russ (33.2%, 40.8%) aren't comparable to Simmons (22.2%) because he does move the ball. But guess who is #2 in the league for 17-18 right between those two guys?
Embid was at 33.9%! That's who LeBron (31.6%) doesn't fit with LeBron should aspire to a point-forward ala Larry Bird and needs to be paired with shooters. Just can't see those 3 on the court together AND more importantly I think both Simmons and Embid don't want LeBron because they'd have to sublimate their games more than LeBron would. Lastly the other parts everyone thinks is necessary for this to work change Philly's outlook from team building to win now = hasn't been their plan and shouldn't be LeBron's.

 

[superjohn]

People saying Lebron wouldn't be a good fit for Philly are nuts, that team would absolutely dominate.

 

[Rocktheworld]

You are right that last 2yrs crazy high usage rates of Harden (36.1%, 34.1%) & Russ (33.2%, 40.8%) aren't comparable to Simmons (22.2%) because he does move the ball. But guess who is #2 in the league for 17-18 right between those two guys?
Embid was at 33.9%! That's who LeBron (31.6%) doesn't fit with LeBron should aspire to a point-forward ala Larry Bird and needs to be paired with shooters. Just can't see those 3 on the court together AND more importantly I think both Simmons and Embid don't want LeBron because they'd have to sublimate their games more than LeBron would. Lastly the other parts everyone thinks is necessary for this to work change Philly's outlook from team building to win now = hasn't been their plan and shouldn't be LeBron's.

Honestly with Embiid’s injury history and still-developing NBA skills, his usage shouldn’t be that high and should come down. He’s not ready to be the centerpiece of an offense. Maybe in 3-5 years as LeBron starts fading...

And regardless, without LeBron or a serious free agent like Kawhi or PG13 (who on his own may not be enough), Philly won’t be ready for another 3 years. Going down 4-1 and the manner in which it happened, to that depleted Celtics team, proves that. LeBron would be the perfect buffer to get them competing and learning to win at the highest level in the post-season. Then when Embiid hits his prime and Simmons hits his mid-20s, LeBron eases off on his role. That actually won’t happen if a Kawhi or PG13 come

 

[Dogdeacon]

Honestly with Embiid’s injury history and still-developing NBA skills, his usage shouldn’t be that high and should come down.

"We love you Joel, you are now the most loved player in Philly and we want to build our team around you! Your skills are just emerging and this year we achieved our goal of making the playoffs & then surpassed it by winning round 1 handily and a competitive series vs Boston! Most agreed that as your game/stamina progresses we will be favorites in the east."

"But the Celtics are getting better so we would like you to become our #2-3 option and we will build the team around LeBron. This will mean less attention for you, fewer endorsements but we gotta hedge because of your injury history. We know you aspire to be the best player in the NBA, but instead how about being the 2nd best player on your own...errr LeBron's team? You are locked into your contract for 5 years so nothing you can really do about it."

 

[MadDogRevival]

I could absolutely see LeBron in Philly.
. . . And then Simmons gets to develop with that kind of offensive weapon.

Great post.

 

[Rocktheworld]

"But the Celtics are getting better

The Celtics haven’t just gotten better. Without their two all-star players, they took that series 4-1 and Philly straight up gave up a couple games. Boston is clearly farther ahead of the curve than Philly right now.

so we would like you to become our #2-3 option

I wouldn’t think of it as “options” given what LeBron can do coming off the ball. Embiid in a given set could be option 1 depending on how Philly wants to use LeBron to force the defense to shift and react to him to open Embiid up.

and we will build the team around LeBron.

The team is essentially built and team building is the opposite of what LeBron is interested in at this stage of his career.

This will mean less attention for you, fewer endorsements

Lol yeah right. And getting to multiple consecutive Finals (and then more once LeBron fades) won’t counteract anything.

but we gotta hedge because of your injury history. We know you aspire to be the best player in the NBA, but instead how about being the 2nd best player on your own...errr LeBron's team? You are locked into your contract for 5 years so nothing you can really do about it."

Trust the process

Maybe when he can make it through a full season, and if he isn’t dancing around on stage while out for injury, he will have more power to dictate things like this

 

[MadDogRevival]

"We love you Joel, you are now the most loved player in Philly . . . You are locked into your contract for 5 years so nothing you can really do about it."

Well, I hear your argument, and time will tell, to be sure.
I agree with Rocktheworld on this one. I think LeBron is a perfect fit in Philly, and I think LeBron on Philly is the only team that can challenge GS. Hat tip to the Celtics for their pluck and grit, but with Irving and the other injured guy, they still get dominated by GS.
LeBron on Philly is a perfect fit for a lot of reasons, many of which were listed by Rock.
Regarding personality conflict - please. The already-favored Warriors got on their knees and begged Durant to come to Oakland. Curry and Thompson and the rest knew that Durant would shade them, which he has. Thompson's HOF (and maybe Green's) legacy is made more difficult by him being there, and they didn't even need him.
LeBron's timeline is short. If you're Embiid or Simmons or any of the others, are you more happy to bring this guy on for 2 or 3 years of dominance during which you can compete for titles? Or are you more concerned with image and rank? Most guys would want LBJ in a nanosecond.
I also think LBJ would be a phenomenal teacher and leader for that group, and I think Fulz would do a lot better with a guy like LeBron working with him.
Frankly, LeBron to Philly is the only thing that can happen between now and October that gets me to keep watching the NBA for the next few years - if that move doesn't happen, nobody even pushes the Warriors for at least 3-5 years.