NBA Playoffs

[auror]

Embid was at 33.9%! That's who LeBron (31.6%) doesn't fit with LeBron should aspire to a point-forward ala Larry Bird and needs to be paired with shooters. Just can't see those 3 on the court together AND more importantly I think both Simmons and Embid don't want LeBron because they'd have to sublimate their games more than LeBron would. Lastly the other parts everyone thinks is necessary for this to work change Philly's outlook from team building to win now = hasn't been their plan and shouldn't be LeBron's.

There's no question they will be good. Really good. But I do wonder if they will be as good an offense as even LeBron's current Cavs team. The shooting threats of Korver, JR, Hill, and Love all at once is pretty debilitating. It allows driving lanes for LeBron and keeps people from helping out mismatches.

Say Covington's shooting regression continues and Fultz doesn't regain his form. You have to lose Redick to sign LeBron. Your shooting threat when LeBron has the ball is literally just Saric? Simmons can't shoot at all, Embiid was like 30% last year.

Maybe that starting 5 is just so massive it won't matter and they can just rotate any mismatch into the post. But the paint will be packed and driving lanes will be tough to come by.

From a modern basketball experiment, it would at least be interesting to watch. It's like an experiment to test how much spacing actually matters.

 

[Rocktheworld]

There's no question they will be good. Really good. But I do wonder if they will be as good an offense as even LeBron's current Cavs team. The shooting threats of Korver, JR, Hill, and Love all at once is pretty debilitating. It allows driving lanes for LeBron and keeps people from helping out mismatches.

Say Covington's shooting regression continues and Fultz doesn't regain his form. You have to lose Redick to sign LeBron. Your shooting threat when LeBron has the ball is literally just Saric? Simmons can't shoot at all, Embiid was like 30% last year.

Maybe that starting 5 is just so massive it won't matter and they can just rotate any mismatch into the post. But the paint will be packed and driving lanes will be tough to come by.

From a modern basketball experiment, it would at least be interesting to watch. It's like an experiment to test how much spacing actually matters.

Meh if you can’t figure out how to score with Simmons, LBJ, and Embiid on the floor, you shouldn’t be an NBA coach

 

[Dogdeacon]

You guys make a lot of assumptions about what LeBron wants and what Philly wants which all marry perfectly into a strict 3-year timeline that no one has mentioned. I simply say Philly is far from the most likely LeBron destination. Philly hasn't done anything yet to give up assets for the now and is unlikely to start so they'd have to acquire LeBron has a free agent - not sign & trade. LeBron hasn't said a thing about his next move, but bought a 25MM house in Brentwood.
Assess or give the odds of where LeBron plays next year? Bonus points for any supporting facts.
49% Cleveland - pay him the most, from Cleveland, loyalty
25% LA - house in LA, production company, rumors
10% Philly - spec
10% Houston- spec
6% The field - spec

 

[auror]

Meh if you can’t figure out how to score with Simmons, LBJ, and Embiid on the floor, you shouldn’t be an NBA coach

Definitely speculating more about the marginal difference vs. current CLE and say in the ECF against Boston or Finals against GSW. Cleveland was already a top 5 offense.

 

[champs99and04]

People saying Lebron wouldn't be a good fit for Philly are nuts, that team would absolutely dominate.

LeBron anywhere is obviously a good fit. But it isn't Durant going to Golden State where it's as if God created a player perfectly tailored to their offense. While there is reason to think LeBron could become a lethal spot-up shooter, he hasn't worked in that capacity very much in his career. Even in Miami, it was a lot of timed cuts towards the rim off Wade drives. Playing in Philly would require him to evolve. Floor spacing could be tricky, especially if they lose Redick.

But at some point brute force and talent matter more than anything else. Neither the Wade/LeBron Heat teams nor the Durant/Westbrook OKC teams were optimal from a fit standpoint, and yet they did a lot of winning. Hell, LeBron/Kyrie wasn't an ideal match, either. You'll gladly welcome some overlap in skill set for the sorts of things that are a lot harder to find - length, positional versatility, and athleticism.

People have scoffed before at the suggestion of putting Simmons on the trade block, but with the amount of talent available this summer and LeBron's window being what it is, anything has to be in play. If you can get Kawhi - secretly only five years older than Simmons - out of it, you're acquiring somebody who is a better player and a better fit. The real quandary concerns Fultz - he's a wrecking ball who may be better served toiling away on a lottery team for a couple years. Philly's problem is that everyone else knows that.

 

[champs99and04]

You guys make a lot of assumptions about what LeBron wants and what Philly wants which all marry perfectly into a strict 3-year timeline that no one has mentioned. I simply say Philly is far from the most likely LeBron destination. Philly hasn't done anything yet to give up assets for the now and is unlikely to start so they'd have to acquire LeBron has a free agent - not sign & trade. LeBron hasn't said a thing about his next move, but bought a 25MM house in Brentwood.
Assess or give the odds of where LeBron plays next year? Bonus points for any supporting facts.
49% Cleveland - pay him the most, from Cleveland, loyalty
25% LA - house in LA, production company, rumors
10% Philly - spec
10% Houston- spec
6% The field - spec

I just don't see the LA thing. It would contradict everything he's historically valued during this process. It's possible he's content enough with the three championships to want to retire in Cleveland, but there's no conceivable path for them to beat Boston going forward, much less Golden State. Unless somebody like Trae Young becomes the next Donovan Mitchell, it's not an outlook that promises championships or, more importantly, even a realistic shot at one. LeBron seems to treasure the television drama series he has to himself every May and June more than anything else - pairing up with a guy like Embiid to try to dethrone Golden State and stick it to Boston a little more won't be a hard sell.

 

[intlzncster]

Boston is good enough without him.

I don't think they can run with GS. Boston doesn't have a transcendent player in Durant, an all timer. Only one of Boston's starters would be able to start for Golden State. Just one. And that's simply due to the 'hole' in GS's lineup.

 

[tzznandrew]

I don't think they can run with GS. Boston doesn't have a transcendent player in Durant, an all timer. Only one of Boston's starters would be able to start for Golden State. Just one. And that's simply due to the 'hole' in GS's lineup.

Boston has given Golden State trouble for a few years now. I think a lineup of Irving-Brown-Haywood-Tatum-Horford can give them trouble enough to pick off a few games. And if the Kings pick hits with a 2-3 next year? And then the Memphis pick?

 

[auror]

I just don't see the LA thing. It would contradict everything he's historically valued during this process. It's possible he's content enough with the three championships to want to retire in Cleveland, but there's no conceivable path for them to beat Boston going forward, much less Golden State. Unless somebody like Trae Young becomes the next Donovan Mitchell, it's not an outlook that promises championships or, more importantly, even a realistic shot at one. LeBron seems to treasure the television drama series he has to himself every May and June more than anything else - pairing up with a guy like Embiid to try to dethrone Golden State and stick it to Boston a little more won't be a hard sell.

If you view his career more as acts of a play, you can see going to LA as the last act.

ACT 1 - Cleveland - Young and strong, but hits adversity he can't currently deal with.
ACT 2 - Miami - Hero leaves to train and assemble a team.
ACT 3 - Cleveland - Returns to free his home.
ACT 4 - LA - Hero sets off for the sunset and more adventures and becomes a Knight Errant (warning TV Tropes).

 

[superjohn]

LeBron anywhere is obviously a good fit. But it isn't Durant going to Golden State where it's as if God created a player perfectly tailored to their offense. While there is reason to think LeBron could become a lethal spot-up shooter, he hasn't worked in that capacity very much in his career. Even in Miami, it was a lot of timed cuts towards the rim off Wade drives. Playing in Philly would require him to evolve. Floor spacing could be tricky, especially if they lose Redick.

But at some point brute force and talent matter more than anything else. Neither the Wade/LeBron Heat teams nor the Durant/Westbrook OKC teams were optimal from a fit standpoint, and yet they did a lot of winning. Hell, LeBron/Kyrie wasn't an ideal match, either. You'll gladly welcome some overlap in skill set for the sorts of things that are a lot harder to find - length, positional versatility, and athleticism.

People have scoffed before at the suggestion of putting Simmons on the trade block, but with the amount of talent available this summer and LeBron's window being what it is, anything has to be in play. If you can get Kawhi - secretly only five years older than Simmons - out of it, you're acquiring somebody who is a better player and a better fit. The real quandary concerns Fultz - he's a wrecking ball who may be better served toiling away on a lottery team for a couple years. Philly's problem is that everyone else knows that.

The best player in the league joining forces with the best center in the league and a 6'10 basketball savant. It's not about fit when you are bigger and better than everyone else, they would be awesome.

Not even delving into the Redick stuff or entertaining your trade Simmons talk.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I just don't see the LA thing. It would contradict everything he's historically valued during this process. It's possible he's content enough with the three championships to want to retire in Cleveland, but there's no conceivable path for them to beat Boston going forward, much less Golden State. Unless somebody like Trae Young becomes the next Donovan Mitchell, it's not an outlook that promises championships or, more importantly, even a realistic shot at one. LeBron seems to treasure the television drama series he has to himself every May and June more than anything else - pairing up with a guy like Embiid to try to dethrone Golden State and stick it to Boston a little more won't be a hard sell.

What?! LeBron made his two decisions based on combo in this order of: 1) places, 2) control and 3) teammates.
Places: He literally and famously said "I'm taking my talents to South Beach." (taxes, atmosphere v Cleveland), next "I'm coming home" (see attached story notably "always thought I'd end my career in Cleveland..."
Control: Orchestrated Wiggins/Love swap, opted for Miami in concert with Bosh & arranged via Wade
Teammates: Wade & Bosh, Cleveland's lottery pick bounty - first mentions were Kyrie (arguably emerging Wade) & TristanT (no Bosh, enter KLove).
If we are ignoring Places & Control for Philly and just looking at teammates, then Utah is actually the better fit with very similar type of teammates, namely a high quality big and emerging guard scorer. Of course he's not going to Utah.

Of course currently most of the speculation is based on LeBron's tacit admission of chasing Jordan, so everyone thinks he needs 3 more championships and in order to achieve that he's obviously got little time to waste. But again, I think that's about not one, not two but three (sorry and therefore building a dynasty and choosing a team based on longer horizon than next year's favorite. LA is a place LeBron can and will recruit whomever he wants to join him (so they choose it too, unlike Philly) and try to win in the final 5 years of his career 20-24.

SI exclusive: LeBron James explains his return to Cleveland Cavaliers

 

[Dogdeacon]

The best player in the league joining forces with the best center in the league and a 6'10 basketball savant. It's not about fit when you are bigger and better than everyone else, they would be awesome.

Not even delving into the Redick stuff or entertaining your trade Simmons talk.

Boogie and Anthony Davis offer rebuttal to both your best center in league crazy talk and bigger & better triumphs over all.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I can't believe the Rockets won 65 games. They are frauds.

No, they are the result of a coach like Mike "there's no D in" D'Antoni. This team is the apex of his system. A fun team to watch who is dominant in the regular season. However, he doesn't know playing defense is legal and he makes very few in-game adjustments. Sadly for him, the playoffs are all about defense and adjustments. I guess no one ever told him.

 

[intlzncster]

Boston has given Golden State trouble for a few years now. I think a lineup of Irving-Brown-Haywood-Tatum-Horford can give them trouble enough to pick off a few games. And if the Kings pick hits with a 2-3 next year? And then the Memphis pick?

Definitely wasn't counting on any of the future picks. That certainly changes the calculus depending on what happens with those.

RE their past success, I just think it's a different game in the playoffs. The Warriors dial it up when they want or need to.

I'm sure they could take a couple games, but I just don't see them outlasting the Warriors over 7 games. I mean, this Warriors team just took out one of the best teams in the NBA by 30.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Definitely wasn't counting on any of the future picks. That certainly changes the calculus depending on what happens with those.

RE their past success, I just think it's a different game in the playoffs. The Warriors dial it up when they want or need to.

I'm sure they could take a couple games, but I just don't see them outlasting the Warriors over 7 games. I mean, this Warriors team just took out one of the best teams in the NBA by 30.

This is why so many casual observers want the Celtics to trade away the future picks for Kawhi or even trade Kyrie or Hayward right now for the perfect fitting big. Everyone can see the Celtics are one all-star big man away from contending with the Warriors and because "I want it now" and b/c the Warriors are such a juggernaut people are impatient. But it doesn't make sense for Boston to give up what portends to be a decade of dominance to beat a team that will be together for another year tops AND likely still have a better 1-6 than Boston for that 1 year (at least more experienced & cohesive).

Its the same thing in essence with Philly, even if you add LeBron to Embid + Simmons there is no guarantee of anything left on the roster that can shoot & defend well enough to trump what the Warriors have right now. But everyone wants to play fantasy GM, does so with a 1-year horizon and assembles imaginary teams to theoretically beat the Warriors because they are unbeatable.

 

[Yardigan]

Say what you want about KD's ring path (could actually see him as a tall Gollum?)....to me, the best parts of the NBA are... guards that dunk on a regular basis and guys that are 6'10"+ that can handle and shoot 3's.... why Dirk and AI are two of my all-time favorites...

 

[superjohn]

These playoffs have been a horrible showcase for the league. Almost every game is a blowout and now you have the two best teams in the league finally playing in a close one and it was just terrible basketball. So much ISO, players not valuing the ball, and just so many ill-advised shots. This series has disappointed.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

These playoffs have been a horrible showcase for the league. Almost every game is a blowout and now you have the two best teams in the league finally playing in a close one and it was just terrible basketball. So much ISO, players not valuing the ball, and just so many ill-advised shots. This series has disappointed.

C’mon, that was a great game, exciting to watch each team make runs and it going down to the wire. From a neutral standpoint that was very fun to watch. Both series tied 2-2, what more could you really ask for?

 

[superjohn]

C’mon, that was a great game, exciting to watch eaxh team make runs and it going down to the wire. From a neutral standpoint that was very fun to watch. Both series tied 2-2, what more could you really ask for?

You're so starved for a close game that you thought that was good basketball. I can ask for better basketball, I haven't enjoyed either series at all.

 

[superjohn]

I also can't remember seeing so many missed layups and dunks. A bunch the past two games and there was a game earlier in the playoffs (Philly) maybe where I lost count on missed layups at around 10.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

You're so starved for a close game that you thought that was good basketball. I can ask for better basketball, I haven't enjoyed either series at all.

Nah i’m just a fan and happy that both conference finals are being tightly contested. Didn’t think that would be the case beforehand, so i’m pleasantly surprised.

 

[intlzncster]

This is why so many casual observers want the Celtics to trade away the future picks for Kawhi or even trade Kyrie or Hayward right now for the perfect fitting big. Everyone can see the Celtics are one all-star big man away from contending with the Warriors and because "I want it now" and b/c the Warriors are such a juggernaut people are impatient. But it doesn't make sense for Boston to give up what portends to be a decade of dominance to beat a team that will be together for another year tops AND likely still have a better 1-6 than Boston for that 1 year (at least more experienced & cohesive).

Its the same thing in essence with Philly, even if you add LeBron to Embid + Simmons there is no guarantee of anything left on the roster that can shoot & defend well enough to trump what the Warriors have right now. But everyone wants to play fantasy GM, does so with a 1-year horizon and assembles imaginary teams to theoretically beat the Warriors because they are unbeatable.

Also, if people have been really paying attention, the idea of getting rid of Kyrie, with a guy like Rozier in the fold, is completely and utterly laughable.

 

[champs99and04]

These playoffs have been a horrible showcase for the league. Almost every game is a blowout and now you have the two best teams in the league finally playing in a close one and it was just terrible basketball. So much ISO, players not valuing the ball, and just so many ill-advised shots. This series has disappointed.

We must have watched a different game. The ISO ball was a product of how amazing both teams are defensively. It was similar to Cavs-Warriors game 7 in 2016 and Celtics-Lakers game 7 in 2010. It's not always going to be pretty when both teams empty the tank like that.

Granted, I was disappointed by Golden State's execution late in the game, and Houston wasn't much better. But that's what typically happens on this stage because they're still human.

 

[intlzncster]

I also can't remember seeing so many missed layups and dunks. A bunch the past two games and there was a game earlier in the playoffs (Philly) maybe where I lost count on missed layups at around 10.

The Celtics missed 15 dunks or layups last game lol

 

[superjohn]

We must have watched a different game. The ISO ball was a product of how amazing both teams are defensively. It was similar to Cavs-Warriors game 7 in 2016 and Celtics-Lakers game 7 in 2010. It's not always going to be pretty when both teams empty the tank like that.

Granted, I was disappointed by Golden State's execution late in the game, and Houston wasn't much better. But that's what typically happens on this stage because they're still human.

Guys were getting deed-up because there was no ball movement. It was a ton of iso from Harden and on the other end it was all iso with Curry dribbling around the three point line shot hunting. I thought Paul played really well and smart and hit several shots to stop Warriors runs. He was the reason Houston won. I like the Warriors team more but was happy the Rockets won, they certainly deserved that one more than GS did.