NBA Playoffs

[intlzncster]

MJ was physical with other teammates as well.

MJ was a world class dick when it came to competitiveness. One of the big reasons he was so good at basketball.

 

[Mr. French]

MJ’s competiveness was second to none but being more competitive does not make you a better player.



Exactly. The Bulls wouldn’t stand a chance, which is why LeBron’s finals record shouldn’t be held against him.

Dude, just tell people you’re only 18, rather than letting them find out through nonsensical takes.

 

[champs99and04]

So numbers, awards, record, and winning titles doesn't matter in this debate.

I'm sorry but just saying Lebron is better because that's what I think is incredibly weak. It's the argument of a child.

Lol. Try reading what I wrote.

The shame of the Jordan cult is that there is actually a really good argument that he’s the best of all-time and I rarely hear anyone make it because they’re so busy playing to the lowest common denominator. His greatness deserves better than the regurgitation of superficial nonsense.

 

[champs99and04]

You're not going to give him credit for anything, because you hate him. Anything resembling "credit" that you give him is always couched in a back handed manner.

The difference between the pro-Jordan guys in this argument (Robertmain, TZAndrew, SuperDave) and the rest of us is . . .
We didn't and don't hate Jordan - I think he was a great competitor and the 2nd best player ever - a savior of the game, of sorts, who took over a recovering patient after Bird and Magic administered CPR and revived a dying sport.
You three hate LeBron, and that's not going to change. If the guy rattled off 3 titles in a row, you'd still be making the same arguments. The other 2 I don't know, but I've read a few of TZAndrew's cesspool posts to know that that's just how he's constructed - take a position, dig in, and defend it like you're a japanese soldier on Iwo Jima.

Not sure I’d go as far as to say they “hate” him but I do find it interesting how many perfectly objective Celtics fans we have weighing in. I admire them for not allowing the fact that he’s sent their team packing five times in the last eight years to influence their judgment.

 

[ihatepants]

This is something I really dislike about LeBron. First of all, you're an @ss for the mere fact of doing it (if it's even true). But then to bust out a wrap/sling on the podium after losing? That's soft. It's implicitly offering up an 'excuse' or doing the 'fighting through adversity' thing. So soft.

Lebron hasn’t blamed the hand injury, he even specifically mentions it in that interview. Something to the effect of "probably wouldn't have beat them even if I was fully healthy." It might be more manly to never reveal it, but after the adrenaline and painkiller/anti inflammatory injections wear off, you'd probably want the cast too. We don't have to live in a world of twitter hot takes.

If you don’t understand why you hide injuries from your opponents, it’s so they can’t exploit them. This is standard in every sport. Richard Sherman and Tom Brady are also examples of two guys who were also known to hide their injuries before taking the field, then talked about it/showed it after the games they played.

 

[selles]

Lol. Try reading what I wrote.

The shame of the Jordan cult is that there is actually a really good argument that he’s the best of all-time and I rarely hear anyone make it because they’re so busy playing to the lowest common denominator. His greatness deserves better than the regurgitation of superficial nonsense.

I think what younger folks may not fully grasp is that many, many members of the "Jordan cult" didn't root for Jordan and in fact rooted fervently for the Bulls to lose.

You have fans of the Celtics and Lakers who wanted to be able to argue that Magic/Bird and their 1980s squads were the best (hand raised). You have Pistons fans who wanted to argue their late 80s early 90s teams were the toughest. You have Knicks and Pacers and Western Conference fans who were trying to break through.

We desperately wanted Jordan NOT to be the best. But you can only root for a guy to fail and then watch him will his team to victory on the highest stage but so many times before you admit defeat.

The reason we're a cult is that Jordan flat beat any doubt of his supremacy out of us.

 

[Rocktheworld]

We desperately wanted Jordan NOT to be the best. But you can only root for a guy to fail and then watch him will his team to victory on the highest stage but so many times before you admit defeat.

That's why you have all these players high up in the media who played against him lauding him as far-and-away the GOAT. Couldn't beat him, so just say you couldn't overcome the GOAT and attach your feelings of inadequacy to such a claim.

Half-rhetorically speaking, do the pre-Jordan HOFers mark him as the unquestionable GOAT? This hearkens back to champs's point of taking players' opinions with a grain of salt. It's only guys from the late 80s to early 00s in the media continuing this narrative; and guys like Juanita to whom, as adolescent boys, Jordan was an infallible god.

 

[champs99and04]

I think what younger folks may not fully grasp is that many, many members of the "Jordan cult" didn't root for Jordan and in fact rooted fervently for the Bulls to lose.

You have fans of the Celtics and Lakers who wanted to be able to argue that Magic/Bird and their 1980s squads were the best (hand raised). You have Pistons fans who wanted to argue their late 80s early 90s teams were the toughest. You have Knicks and Pacers and Western Conference fans who were trying to break through.

We desperately wanted Jordan NOT to be the best. But you can only root for a guy to fail and then watch him will his team to victory on the highest stage but so many times before you admit defeat.

The reason we're a cult is that Jordan flat beat any doubt of his supremacy out of us.

No, I get it. I think it actually makes my point, if anything. Opinions tend to soften over time. Something is at its most threatening point when it's ongoing. Defeat gets progressively easier to swallow as you get further removed from that moment. Defensiveness leads to the formation of opinions and then those opinions lead to rooting interest. At least that's the way it is with me.

The opposite can sometimes be true as well. You establish such high expectations and then when they don't meet them you overcompensate because you're disappointed. In either case, it's basically impossible to separate the basic psychological element that Jordan came at an earlier point in time from the analysis.

To be clear, I'm not arguing for LeBron over Jordan (though game one of the finals was the most tempted I've been to sway that way). I just think it's worth defending LeBron on certain points.

 

[ihatepants]

And people are questioning why Durant has become so unlikeable since he left OKC? He used to be such a humble guy. Remember when he wanted he shoes to be affordable because he knew what it was like to not be able to afford Jordans as a kid, and then when Nike increased the price of his shoes to $150, he was quoted as saying “I'm not a $88 player. I'm an elite player in the league.”

 

[Rocktheworld]

And people are questioning why Durant has become so unlikeable since he left OKC? He used to be such a humble guy. Remember when he wanted he shoes to be affordable because he knew what it was like to not be able to afford Jordans as a kid, and then when Nike increased the price of his shoes to $150, he was quoted as saying “I'm not a $88 player. I'm an elite player in the league.”

Time to bump my “Kevin Durant is Becoming a Head Case” thread

Man I can’t wait to hear the takes on FS1 tomorrow

 

[MadDogRevival]

Did he really say that? Wow. Talk about seething envy of LeBron. What an absolute clown.
"I feel like it’s easy to be the best player when you don’t have good players around you. I feel like it’s harder to stand out when you have great players around you. I pride myself on standing out wherever I am."

 

[Adios]

Was LeBron's hand swollen, at all? Don't broken hands swell up?

I did break my hand punching the wall a while ago. Docs messed in setting the bone properly. Right pinky is little crooked now. When I think of it, I feel pain.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Was LeBron's hand swollen, at all? Don't broken hands swell up?

I did break my hand punching the wall a while ago. Docs messed in setting the bone properly. Right pinky is little crooked now. When I think of it, I feel pain.

Somewhat unrelated, I can’t believe how Bron’s Eye was still as red as it was in game 4. Man what a rake that must have been. And GSW fans booed him when he clutched his head in pain.

 

[tzznandrew]

Time to bump my “Kevin Durant is Becoming a Head Case” thread

Man I can’t wait to hear the takes on FS1 tomorrow

KD's take may be the the worst take ever...

 

[champs99and04]

I'm not really bothered by that so much. It sounds good to say you want your shoes to be affordable to lower-income people, but realistically that doesn't make a lot of sense. The more money the business makes, the more money you make, the more money you have a chance to direct to people who need it (and I'm aware it doesn't necessarily work like that on a macro level, but if I were in his shoes, no pun intended, that's how I'd look at it).

The cocky streak isn't new. I also don't think confidence and humility are always mutually exclusive. If he's not as grounded as he used to be, then that more than likely contributed to his move west. But we sort of made him that way.

I'm all for liking and disliking people for whatever reason you want, but I do find it fortunate that we live in an era where those reasons are largely superficial. The evolution the league has undergone from a PR standpoint in the last couple decades is truly impressive. They've gone from an optics nightmare - correct me if I'm exaggerating since I've only really read about it - to probably the most image conscious league in America. LeBron deserves a lot of credit, but the crop of superstars that bloomed in that same timeframe - Melo, D-Wade, CP3, Durant, Westbrook, Love, Curry, Cousins, etc. - have done everything the league could have asked for and more in terms of promoting the game on a global level, pushing social issues, and being ambassadors for the league in general.

Those guys made the league's jobs' a lot easier compared to the crew that preceded them, is what I'm saying. And I liked those guys, but man, it was one thing after another with the Kobe/Artest/Jermaine O'Neal/Iverson/Steve Francis/Arenas heyday. You know what forget everything I just said I want to go back to those days.

 

[MadDogRevival]

Was LeBron's hand swollen, at all? Don't broken hands swell up?

Yeah man, I thought that too. Not calling the guy out, but a "broken" hand is not something that you play through. Maybe hairline fracture, bruised bone, or something.

 

[ihatepants]

Was LeBron's hand swollen, at all? Don't broken hands swell up?

I did break my hand punching the wall a while ago. Docs messed in setting the bone properly. Right pinky is little crooked now. When I think of it, I feel pain.

This isn’t my photo, so I’m not quite sure which game it’s from, but it does indeed look like his right hand is swollen.

 

[Rocktheworld]

This isn’t my photo, so I’m not quite sure which game it’s from, but it does indeed look like his right hand is swollen.

If that’s not photoshopped it’s definitely broken

 

[Robertelamin]

Way to break your hand in the finals.

 

[LIuconn]

Jordan would never lose in the finals series or break his hand during one. Advantage MJ

 

[Adios]

That is definitely swollen. He played without painkillers? That ain't no hairline fracture.

 

[intlzncster]

I mean, it looks like his other hand. Don't know how you guys can tell anything from that. Here's another pic.

 

[champs99and04]

Hands look damn near identical in this shot. Have to believe the guy is trying to rationalize his poor shooting performances in games three and four. I would give you an example of Jordan taking a loss like a man but he never lost.

 

[ihatepants]

I think it looks very clearly swollen. You can no longer see the veins or tendons on his right hand, which are visible on his left.

 

[intlzncster]

Hands look damn near identical in this shot. Have to believe the guy is trying to rationalize his poor shooting performances in games three and four. I would give you an example of Jordan taking a loss like a man but he never lost.

Well, you got that part right.