NBA Playoffs

[ihatepants]

The revisionist history on Jordan is kind of hilarious. Go back and actually read newspapers from the time and people were saying you couldn't win a title with Jordan as he was getting beaten every year in the east and in the finals. He also frequently blamed his teammates, even going as far as mentioning specific shots that teammates missed in the playoffs and stated his inability to carry the entire team by himself as various excuses for why he was never able to win until '91.

 

[Walker11]

Somewhat unrelated, I can’t believe how Bron’s Eye was still as red as it was in game 4. Man what a rake that must have been. And GSW fans booed him when he clutched his head in pain.

And Draymond called him the P word for overreacting.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

And Draymond called him the P word for overreacting.

Draymond is literally the most annoying, obnoxious player in sports.

 

[MadDogRevival]

Draymond is literally the most annoying, obnoxious player in sports.

I'm not convinced he's the most annoying, obnoxious player on the Warriors.

 

[Mr. French]

The revisionist history on Jordan is kind of hilarious. Go back and actually read newspapers from the time and people were saying you couldn't win a title with Jordan as he was getting beaten every year in the east and in the finals. He also frequently blamed his teammates, even going as far as mentioning specific shots that teammates missed in the playoffs and stated his inability to carry the entire team by himself as various excuses for why he was never able to win until '91.

That was when he was in his mid 20s.

Once he took over the league, when did any of that happen?

I’d argue it goes both ways: some only remember all of his greatness, some see LeBron and KD and their insane talent and forget how dang good Jordan and others were just 10-20 years ago.

 

[Mr. French]

And Draymond called him the P word for overreacting.

And jumped around complaining about the call for an hour.

Wait, I’m confusing that play with every single play of his career where he tackles guys.

 

[ihatepants]

That was when he was in his mid 20s.

Once he took over the league, when did any of that happen?

I’d argue it goes both ways: some only remember all of his greatness, some see LeBron and KD and their insane talent and forget how dang good Jordan and others were just 10-20 years ago.

I mean it’s obvious Jordan ruled the 90s. I also believe that he would have won at least one more if he never retired that first time. But to say that he “never lost” is something else entirely and forgets that Jordan was “human” for a long time before he started trusting his teammates, before Pippen turned into a superstar, and before the best coach of all time started coaching him and installed the triangle offense. He also made plenty of excuses and also looked like he couldn’t carry a team on his own at one point in his career. That perception did change, for the obvious, but a lot had to happen before it did.

 

[A10 fan]

The revisionist history on Jordan is kind of hilarious. Go back and actually read newspapers from the time and people were saying you couldn't win a title with Jordan as he was getting beaten every year in the east and in the finals. He also frequently blamed his teammates, even going as far as mentioning specific shots that teammates missed in the playoffs and stated his inability to carry the entire team by himself as various excuses for why he was never able to win until '91.

Jordan never lost in the Finals.

 

[ihatepants]

Jordan never lost in the Finals.

He lost individual games in the finals, just never a series. I was mainly referring to when they lost Game 1 in 1991, he was making excuses like paxson missed so and so shots and "i cant do it all myself"

 

[intlzncster]

The revisionist history on Jordan is kind of hilarious. Go back and actually read newspapers from the time and people were saying you couldn't win a title with Jordan as he was getting beaten every year in the east and in the finals. He also frequently blamed his teammates, even going as far as mentioning specific shots that teammates missed in the playoffs and stated his inability to carry the entire team by himself as various excuses for why he was never able to win until '91.

Nobody has claimed Jordan was a nice guy. He was a complete dick. He wanted to eat your soul, even if you were on his own team.

And as we've mentioned before, he was also going against other GOAT-conversation teams in his early years.

This article doesn't prove anything, but there's a few good quotes. Michael Jordan's Former Teammates on How MJ Would've Handled the Modern-Day NBA

But James is unfairly criticized, Perdue says, even when he makes the correct basketball play, because there are people unwilling to acknowledge him for fear of slighting Jordan.​

I think this is probably true. Therein lies one of the important differences between the two guys. Jordan's teammates actually feared him (as did his peers); he drove them to be great simply for fear of pissing him off. Keeping them on the edge focus-wise. I'm not saying it's a healthy leadership quality, but it is an effective one.

I don't get the same sense out of LeBron and his teammates. They respect his game, but I'm not so sure as a leader. See even little things like Kyrie and Curry making fun of his workout videos. jmo

The back of the plane was the fiercely competitive high rollers' room. That's where you'd most often find Jordan, of course—until he learned of the role players' $1 blackjack games up front.

Jordan wanted in. Will Perdue, the Bulls' 1988 first-rounder, swears by his memory of the following exchange between the Hall of Famer and John Paxson:

Paxson: Why are you even bothering to play with us?

Jordan: So I can say I have your money in my pocket.

Jordan's infamous competitive drive made him the GOAT then—and would do the same in today's LeBron James- and Steph Curry-dominated NBA.

"He would somehow find a way to beat you—somehow," Perdue says. "I'm not sure how. He's not sure how, but he would stay up weeks to figure it out."​

Jordan needed to beat you at every aspect of you life like he needed to breathe. Probably would steal your wife if you weren't careful.

The stories about MJ aren't fake. Honestly, he was pathological.

 

[superjohn]

Nobody has claimed Jordan was a nice guy. He was a complete dick. He wanted to eat your soul, even if you were on his own team.

And as we've mentioned before, he was also going against other GOAT-conversation teams in his early years.

This article doesn't prove anything, but there's a few good quotes. Michael Jordan's Former Teammates on How MJ Would've Handled the Modern-Day NBA

But James is unfairly criticized, Perdue says, even when he makes the correct basketball play, because there are people unwilling to acknowledge him for fear of slighting Jordan.​

I think this is probably true. Therein lies one of the important differences between the two guys. Jordan's teammates actually feared him (as did his peers); he drove them to be great simply for fear of pissing him off. Keeping them on the edge focus-wise. I'm not saying it's a healthy leadership quality, but it is an effective one.

I don't get the same sense out of LeBron and his teammates. They respect his game, but I'm not so sure as a leader. See even little things like Kyrie and Curry making fun of his workout videos. jmo

The back of the plane was the fiercely competitive high rollers' room. That's where you'd most often find Jordan, of course—until he learned of the role players' $1 blackjack games up front.

Jordan wanted in. Will Perdue, the Bulls' 1988 first-rounder, swears by his memory of the following exchange between the Hall of Famer and John Paxson:

Paxson: Why are you even bothering to play with us?

Jordan: So I can say I have your money in my pocket.

Jordan's infamous competitive drive made him the GOAT then—and would do the same in today's LeBron James- and Steph Curry-dominated NBA.

"He would somehow find a way to beat you—somehow," Perdue says. "I'm not sure how. He's not sure how, but he would stay up weeks to figure it out."​

Jordan needed to beat you at every aspect of you life like he needed to breathe. Probably would steal your wife if you weren't careful.

The stories about MJ aren't fake. Honestly, he was pathological.

He was insane in Barcelona. Would gamble and hit the clubs until morning, maybe catch an hour or 2 of sleep, play 36 holes of golf and then play a game. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Adios]

People who got to see LeBron but not Jordan are going to say LeBron is better because they didn't get to see Jordan. Oh well.

A lot of players are now going to be competing for this imaginary basketball "throne". It's gotten ridiculous. You don't see this in hockey.

This year's draft class is obviously insanely talented. It's not as if we're done seeing great players.

FWIW, LeBron wants to be a "nice guy".

 

[Rocktheworld]

FWIW, LeBron wants to be a "nice guy".

He wants to be a beloved king; MJ was fine being a dictator

 

[husky429]

I doubt anyone comes close to Lebron in the next 10 years. No one in the league right now is close IMO.

I put Lebron and MJ on the pedestal together. Yes, it's a cop-out. But the reason there is debate is because they're basically incomparable, and both freakishly talented.

 

[intlzncster]

He wants to be a beloved king; MJ was fine being a dictator

I think that's about right. Maybe a 'conqueror' is more apropos for MJ. He just wants to crush you. I mean, he's even sh it talking you in his HOF speech.

LeBron annoys me, and I think he's pretty dooshy, but he's a lot better person than MJ.

 

[intlzncster]

Bron's hand straight up killing him here tho

 

[intlzncster]

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

People who got to see LeBron but not Jordan are going to say LeBron is better because they didn't get to see Jordan. Oh well.

There are people who have seen both and just happen to think LeBron is better.

 

[superjohn]

Bron's hand straight up killing him here tho

I was gonna lay off this topic but it really rubs me the wrong way. Lebron took 3 shots in the second half, let Rodney Hood out shoot him for the game, played no defense, and then comes out for the press conference wearing a cast. "I basically played with a broken hand." This is what you call trying to protect your image. I'm sure he bruised his hand by punching the white board but putting the cast on for your 20 minute media session after you get stomped and calling it basically broken was all about overselling it and trying to protect his legacy. Guy was doing everything with his right hand in those games, to come out with a cast on and say you played with basically a broken hand is about as bush as it gets.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

LeBron is also one of, if not the most well spoken stars any sport has seen. He is a perfect role model, i’m not saying this has to factor into any GOAT argument, but since some feel like trashing him so much, might as well add this.

 

[tzznandrew]

There are people who have seen both and just happen to think LeBron is better.

Right. Reasonable minds can disagree.

 

[ihatepants]

LeBron is also one of, if not the most well spoken stars any sport has seen. He is a perfect role model, i’m not saying this has to factor into any GOAT argument, but since some feel like trashing him so much, might as well add this.

It’s kind of funny that the most controversial thing LeBron ever did and got so many people to hate him was raise over $3M dollars for charity.

 

[tzznandrew]

It’s kind of funny that the most controversial thing LeBron ever did and got so many people to hate him was raise over $3M dollars for charity.

I don't think it's the charity, so much, that made people hate him. Let's not kid ourselves there.

 

[ihatepants]

Bron's hand straight up killing him here tho

I was gonna lay off this topic but it really rubs me the wrong way. Lebron took 3 shots in the second half, let Rodney Hood out shoot him for the game, played no defense, and then comes out for the press conference wearing a cast. "I basically played with a broken hand." This is what you call trying to protect your image. I'm sure he bruised his hand by punching the white board but putting the cast on for your 20 minute media session after you get stomped and calling it basically broken was all about overselling it and trying to protect his legacy. Guy was doing everything with his right hand in those games, to come out with a cast on and say you played with basically a broken hand is about as bush as it gets.

I don't know why you guys are so insistent at claiming that his hand can't possibly be broken, but the photos show that his right hand was swelling in every game after the first. Windhorst also said in his report about his hand that LeBron wore a cast every day after game 1, just not with the media. If the contusion/fracture occurred close to or at the head of his metacarpals, it also would be completely possible to do pushups without much pain. Most of the pressure on pushups are going to be either on the lunate or hypothenar areas of the palm, with almost no pressure at the heads of the metacarpals, especially on the 5th metacarpal side (the most common location of a boxer's fracture).

Game 1:

(bah, I really can't put more than one image in a post?)

 

[ihatepants]

Game 1