NBA Playoffs

[Mr. French]

I don't know why you keep posting fake playoff career averages for Chris Paul and Isiah Thomas. Paul's playoff averages- 21.5 ppg, 9 assists, and 4.9 rebs. Isiah Thomas playoff averages. 20.4 ppg, 8.9, assists, and 4.7 rebs.

No matter how you slice it, Chris Paul just isn't going to stack up to Zeke as a playoff performer. Isiah was going through yearly playoff wars against Bird and Jordan. I watched him score 16 points in 90 seconds at the end of the playpff game against the Knicks. I watched him drop 25 in the third quarter in the NBA finals against the Lakers on one ankle. I can't stand Isiah but he was a beast. Heart and Soul of the Pistons and brought them 2 championships.

I'll just assume you are a teenager and never watched Isiah. This really shouldn't be a hill you choose to die on.

I think I’m with you here.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Do people still think the warriors would sweep the Celtics winning every game by 20?

 

[husky429]

Do people still think the warriors would sweep the Celtics winning every game by 20?

I do. Warriors aren't going to cave like the Cavs do. Too much firepower

Edit: Let me clarify. I think it will be Warriors in 5, assuming the Cs close against the Cavs. I think the Cs have options to nullify Steph and Klay, but I don't see us having a way to stop Durant from going off when he chooses to. Horford is fantastic, but that's a tough job for anyone.

That being said, I believe the series will be incredibly enjoyable to watch. Unlike these Cavs, I guarantee the Cs will be diving after loose balls and playing hard for 48 minutes.

Also, Smart and Green may tear each other's heads off. Two most intense players in the NBA on one floor will be exciting to watch. Though Smart is significantly less of a jabroni on the floor with the zebras.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I do. Warriors aren't going to cave like the Cavs do. Too much firepower

Sweep though? Nah. The Celtics aren't going to be as soft as anybody the Warriors face in the west either. Not as talented as Houston with this roster, but they move the ball better, play harder and play better team and individual defense.

 

[whosurdaddy2720]

Do people still think the warriors would sweep the Celtics winning every game by 20?

Yes.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Smart isn’t gonna bend over for Curry like the rest of the league does.

 

[MadDogRevival]

Assuming you are going to get a top asset in return, I agree trading Kyrie is the way to go.

Irving is a great player - no doubt.
Guy is hurt a lot, and he's not getting any younger.
I'm always leery about putting a lot of eggs in an injury prone basket.

 

[UConn990411]

Irving is a great player - no doubt.
Guy is hurt a lot, and he's not getting any younger.
I'm always leery about putting a lot of eggs in an injury prone basket.

The injury concerns are legit, but I think people forget he’s still only 25.

In theory, he should be entering his prime in the upcoming seasons.

 

[Guapo]

I do. Warriors aren't going to cave like the Cavs do. Too much firepower

Edit: Let me clarify. I think it will be Warriors in 5, assuming the Cs close against the Cavs. I think the Cs have options to nullify Steph and Klay, but I don't see us having a way to stop Durant from going off when he chooses to. Horford is fantastic, but that's a tough job for anyone.

That being said, I believe the series will be incredibly enjoyable to watch. Unlike these Cavs, I guarantee the Cs will be diving after loose balls and playing hard for 48 minutes.

Also, Smart and Green may tear each other's heads off. Two most intense players in the NBA on one floor will be exciting to watch. Though Smart is significantly less of a jabroni on the floor with the zebras.

If nothing else, I'd be fascinated to watch what Stevens comes up with to try and stop Golden State.

 

[champs99and04]

Smart isn’t gonna bend over for Curry like the rest of the league does.

Chris Paul isn't a guy who bends over, either. Curry has actually been held in check this postseason, relatively speaking. Aside from the obvious fact that they have great players, what makes Golden State so difficult to defend is everything they do away from the ball. Any friendly fire navigating their screens and cuts can be fatal.

I'm not ready to declare either series over, but assuming we do get that match-up, I think what makes the Warriors better equipped to solve the Boston riddle is their versatility defensively. I mean, they have four defenders who can pretty much guard any offensive player Boston has. Add a couple other players like Smart and Baynes who Golden State can hide guys on, and I just don't see how they score enough points. Horford, Brown, and Tatum can create enough offense to maybe win a game or two, but the Celtics have droughts and those droughts kill you against the Warriors.

 

[champs99and04]

The injury concerns are legit, but I think people forget he’s still only 25.

In theory, he should be entering his prime in the upcoming seasons.

It's pretty crazy to think that he's only two years older than Embiid. Either way, I think this budding Celtics dynasty might turn out to be the best thing to happen for the Warriors. They'll need something to fight off complacency as they age together - otherwise, I think things will eventually go stale and they'll fracture off.

 

[auror]

I don't know why you keep posting fake playoff career averages for Chris Paul and Isiah Thomas. Paul's playoff averages- 21.5 ppg, 9 assists, and 4.9 rebs. Isiah Thomas playoff averages. 20.4 ppg, 8.9, assists, and 4.7 rebs.

No matter how you slice it, Chris Paul just isn't going to stack up to Zeke as a playoff performer. Isiah was going through yearly playoff wars against Bird and Jordan. I watched him score 16 points in 90 seconds at the end of the playpff game against the Knicks. I watched him drop 25 in the third quarter in the NBA finals against the Lakers on one ankle. I can't stand Isiah but he was a beast. Heart and Soul of the Pistons and brought them 2 championships.

I'll just assume you are a teenager and never watched Isiah. This really shouldn't be a hill you choose to die on.

Paul's stats were from that article I linked. Stats you posted are current, thank you. Accidentally used the wrong line for Zeke, his last season instead of the average, up until the turnovers which that and after were right. 2am blunder.

Updated Paul playoff per game ranks among the absolute elite PGs in NBA history:
Tied for 5th most points, tied for 3rd most assists, tied for 3rd most rebounds, fewest turnovers, most steals, and 2nd best shooting %.

Thomas's ranks:
Tied for 6th in most points, tied for 3rd most assists, tied for 3rd most rebounds, 6th fewest turnovers, tied for 2nd most steals, tied for 7th best shooting %.

Paul is still top 5 in every category and notably he still outperforms Isiah in literally every. single. category. But Ringggzzzz. What a terrible playoff performer.

Paul doesn't have the Birds, Magics, and Jordans, specifically, but he did run into his own dynasties. His whole career has been in the supercharged West. He lost to the Spurs x2, Kobe's Lakers, Carmelo's best team, and James Harden's Houston. His other 3 losses are with him hurt or with Blake gone (and he was phenomenal in both of the series without Blake on the Clippers).

Isiah clearly came through in the playoffs, though, right? Especially in the clutch? His play on the injured ankle in '88 was truly incredible. Of course he missed the icing shot in that one. And then presumably still playing hurt put up 4/12 to lose the series. Obviously that's poor luck, but time has a way of making you forget that in the 2 years before they won, he shot 42% for the 2 full playoff series they lost including the aforementioned game 7 and a 2nd game 7 in '87 with 10/28 shooting. Or the clinching game 6 of the series before in '88 where they won despite him shooting 3/11. Or 2 years before when they were eliminated and he shot 12/28 in the clinching game with 5 turnovers. Or that he shot 40% for the full series they lost the year after their titles. Or that he shot 34% the year after that for the full series they lost to the KNICKS.

Paul has had some stinkers, too. But he did just have a 41 point (on only 22 shots), 10 assist, 7 rebound, 0 turnover game in a clinching game last round, which is better than any single Zeke game in the playoffs by game score. Nobody else has ever had over 40 points and 0 turnovers in playoff history.

Overall, he's been better than Zeke in the playoffs. If his Joe Dumars wasn't Austin Rivers, we might not be having this conversation.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Chris Paul isn't a guy who bends over, either. Curry has actually been held in check this postseason, relatively speaking. Aside from the obvious fact that they have great players, what makes Golden State so difficult to defend is everything they do away from the ball. Any friendly fire navigating their screens and cuts can be fatal.

I'm not ready to declare either series over, but assuming we do get that match-up, I think what makes the Warriors better equipped to solve the Boston riddle is their versatility defensively. I mean, they have four defenders who can pretty much guard any offensive player Boston has. Add a couple other players like Smart and Baynes who Golden State can hide guys on, and I just don't see how they score enough points. Horford, Brown, and Tatum can create enough offense to maybe win a game or two, but the Celtics have droughts and those droughts kill you against the Warriors.

Oh the Warriors are much better equipped to deal with the Boston defense, because they can score in some many more ways and get points from so many guys. I don't think the Celtics as constituted can beat them in a series. But I think they can win a game at home. Possibly two. I think the talk of a sweep exaggerates the reality. Boston poses problems for GS that several other teams don't. If Irving and Hayward were healthy, I'd say the series would be a toss up 7 game series.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Paul's stats were from that article I linked. Stats you posted are current, thank you. Accidentally used the wrong line for Zeke, his last season instead of the average, up until the turnovers which that and after were right. 2am blunder.

Updated Paul playoff per game ranks among the absolute elite PGs in NBA history:
Tied for 5th most points, tied for 3rd most assists, tied for 3rd most rebounds, fewest turnovers, most steals, and 2nd best shooting %.

Thomas's ranks:
Tied for 6th in most points, tied for 3rd most assists, tied for 3rd most rebounds, 6th fewest turnovers, tied for 2nd most steals, tied for 7th best shooting %.

Paul is still top 5 in every category and notably he still outperforms Isiah in literally every. single. category. But Ringggzzzz. What a terrible playoff performer.

Paul doesn't have the Birds, Magics, and Jordans, specifically, but he did run into his own dynasties. His whole career has been in the supercharged West. He lost to the Spurs x2, Kobe's Lakers, Carmelo's best team, and James Harden's Houston. His other 3 losses are with him hurt or with Blake gone (and he was phenomenal in both of the series without Blake on the Clippers).

Isiah clearly came through in the playoffs, though, right? Especially in the clutch? His play on the injured ankle in '88 was truly incredible. Of course he missed the icing shot in that one. And then presumably still playing hurt put up 4/12 to lose the series. Obviously that's poor luck, but time has a way of making you forget that in the 2 years before they won, he shot 42% for the 2 full playoff series they lost including the aforementioned game 7 and a 2nd game 7 in '87 with 10/28 shooting. Or the clinching game 6 of the series before in '88 where they won despite him shooting 3/11. Or 2 years before when they were eliminated and he shot 12/28 in the clinching game with 5 turnovers. Or that he shot 40% for the full series they lost the year after their titles. Or that he shot 34% the year after that for the full series they lost to the KNICKS.

Paul has had some stinkers, too. But he did just have a 41 point, 10 assist, 7 rebound, 0 turnover game in a clinching game last round, which is better than any single Zeke game in the playoffs by game score.

Overall, he's been better than Zeke in the playoffs. If his Joe Dumars wasn't Austin Rivers, we might not be having this conversation.

Why does anyone care? These arguments are pointless. Winning in the playoffs is a function of being a great player and being on a great team. Paul hasn't been on many great teams. On the other hand, individual overall stats can be padded much more easily playing on a team where you have to produce more of the offense. They are both very good players, and its far from obvious who is/was better.

 

[auror]

Why does anyone care? These arguments are pointless.

It's fun to argue sports on the Internet.

 

[intlzncster]

This Boston team is enjoyable to watch, good team basketball, but I don't even feel like the warriors are firing on all cylinders right now. Warriors will mow them down.

Boston can shut down two high end options, but the 3rd/4th will roll. KD will dominate that series.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Remember that time Chris Paul punched that dude in the dick?

 

[superjohn]

I think I’m with you here.

I find people who weren't old enough to watch or just didn't watch get so hung up on numbers (at least he finally posted the right numbers). It's pretty hard to believe anyone who watched them both during their careers and in big playoff games could come away saying Paul is the better player. The Clippers were routinely one of the favorites going into the season and all they ever managed was making the second round. They had one of the all-time playoff chokes blowing it to a nothing Rockets team. Paul's numbers may have been good I'm not even going to look it up because I know what I saw. Clippers were destroying them and had the series won before giving it all away, your job as a point guard is to not let that happen. Paul is a great player but there is no getting around that his teams didn't live up to expectations when the lights were the brightest, it's a team game but when you are the point guard and the best player a lot of the blame is going to fall at your feet, as it should. Since Auror loves stats so much, he should be touting Westbrook, Harden, and Tiny Archibald over Paul and Thomas.

 

[intlzncster]

I find people who weren't old enough to watch or just didn't watch get so hung up on numbers (at least he finally posted the right numbers). It's pretty hard to believe anyone who watched them both during their careers and in big playoff games could come away saying Paul is the better player. The Clippers were routinely one of the favorites going into the season and all they ever managed was making the second round. They had one of the all-time playoff chokes blowing it to a nothing Rockets team. Paul's numbers may have been good I'm not even going to look it up because I know what I saw. Clippers were destroying them and had the series won before giving it all away, your job as a point guard is to not let that happen. Paul is a great player but there is no getting around that his teams didn't live up to expectations when the lights were the brightest, it's a team game but when you are the point guard and the best player a lot of the blame is going to fall at your feet, as it should. Since Auror loves stats so much, he should be touting Westbrook, Harden, and Tiny Archibald over Paul and Thomas.

I'm in total agreement with you here.

Sounds stupid, but some guys just have that quality. Whatever it is, being a 'winner', being clutch, having an iron will, or simply just the 'it factor'. Whatever you want to call it, it is real. Whenever the lights are the brightest, they perform at their highest.

Not to derail, but it's one of the primary arguments why I take Brady over Manning 100 times out of 100.

 

[auror]

I'm in total agreement with you here.

Sounds stupid, but some guys just have that quality. Whatever it is, being a 'winner', being clutch, having an iron will, or simply just the 'it factor'. Whatever you want to call it, it is real. Whenever the lights are the brightest, they perform at their highest.

What about all the clinching games Thomas choked in I mentioned?

 

[UConnStats]

Statistically Zeke isn't even that close to Chris Paul. Nor is Westbrook (who I find to be one of the most overrated players ever, but that's a different subject).

 

[champs99and04]

Cleveland is -6 in game three.

I'm not going to be the fool that writes them a check, but at what point does Vegas blow up whatever model they're using for Boston? They've won, what, six of their last seven as underdogs? Outright. And a lot of them haven't been close. It's shades of the Eagles getting four points against Minnesota in the NFC Championship.

 

[Paesano]

The answer to the question of what it would look like if Geno coached elite men has been answered. It would look like Brad Stevens coaching the Celtics. And, really, we have already seen this. It was/is the Popavich coached Spurs. These guys can be great players with mediocre coaches but they are better when coached by someone that pays attention to the little things and the intangibles. It can and does make a difference no matter how athletic the players are.

 

[auror]

Cleveland is -6 in game three.

I'm not going to be the fool that writes them a check, but at what point does Vegas blow up whatever model they're using for Boston? They've won, what, six of their last seven as underdogs? Outright. And a lot of them haven't been close. It's shades of the Eagles getting four points against Minnesota in the NFC Championship.

That line will come down I'd guess, but Boston will still probably close as a dog. They're waiting for the public to bite on Boston. I think that finally happens now after that performance last night and all the "will breaking" talk.
Might actually be able to middle if you take Boston +6 then wait for line to drop and grab Cleveland -whatever it falls to.

 

[the Q]

The answer to the question of what it would look like if Geno coached elite men has been answered. It would look like Brad Stevens coaching the Celtics. And, really, we have already seen this. It was/is the Popavich coached Spurs. These guys can be great players with mediocre coaches but they are better when coached by someone that pays attention to the little things and the intangibles. It can and does make a difference no matter how athletic the players are.

I'd love to see Stevens land a generational talent.

But one isn't available right now, and because the pick is 1-1 protected next year, help won't come from the draft (likely) either.

Ironically to this thread, landing a Chris Paul is about what you can hope for with a 2-3. And that's still really really freaking good.