NBA Playoffs | Page 15 | The Boneyard

NBA Playoffs

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Lol yeah let’s go back to a single game in 2010 for precedent

Now is LeBron averaging the most points all-time in game 7s with those 45? MJ was at 33.7, LeBron 33.2

Well, 2010 is the last time (save for the 2015 finals) he had as little help as he does now. It's not some slight on LeBron to think he'd be reluctant to play 40+ minutes at this stage of his career. The fact that he seemed ready to play the full 48 before the cramps goes to show what a freak he is.
 
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Indiana is thin outside of Oladipo. The fact that they won only 42 games last year without him (but with Paul George) is telling. It's not like they're Philly where you look at the roster and see a bunch of building blocks. It's Oladipo and then some young big men who might develop into something or might not. Nobody is looking at that team as a threat long-term.

Even more telling, Indiana's over/under this year was 30.5.
 
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What are you disagreeing with? Cleveland was a +6 in the five minutes LeBron didn't play and won by four (granted the garbage time three is defended differently with a lesser margin) - it's a pretty non-controversial point to say they lost the game there.

Indiana is thin outside of Oladipo. The fact that they won only 42 games last year without him (but with Paul George) is telling. It's not like they're Philly where you look at the roster and see a bunch of building blocks. It's Oladipo and then some young big men who might develop into something or might not. Nobody is looking at that team as a threat long-term.

Doubling down on the horrific takes, huh? Wow.


I can say with a high amount of confidence that LeBron having the game that he did contributed much more to the end result of the game than literally anything that could have happened in the 5 minutes that Bron sat.

I can also say that it's legitimately baffling that you can double down on what you've said about Indy, and yet still think they should have won.
 
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Well, 2010 is the last time (save for the 2015 finals) he had as little help as he does now. It's not some slight on LeBron to think he'd be reluctant to play 40+ minutes at this stage of his career. The fact that he seemed ready to play the full 48 before the cramps goes to show what a freak he is.

You're surprised that a guy wanted to try and win a playoff game 7? Did you really think it was more likely that he'd simply phone it in?
 
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Even more telling, Indiana's over/under this year was 30.5.

That wasn't the part I disagreed with. Saying that Indy should have won the series in spite of all that is the spit take statement being made there.
 
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Well, 2010 is the last time (save for the 2015 finals) he had as little help as he does now. It's not some slight on LeBron to think he'd be reluctant to play 40+ minutes at this stage of his career. The fact that he seemed ready to play the full 48 before the cramps goes to show what a freak he is.
You've been posting some really strange stuff lately.
 
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You're surprised that a guy wanted to try and win a playoff game 7? Did you really think it was more likely that he'd simply phone it in?

Obviously he wanted to win the game. There have been a lot of players who have wanted to win games and not all of them were willing to play balls to the wall for 48 minutes on both ends at the age of 33, having gone to the finals seven straight years and understanding that realistically he had no shot at winning this season. The wear and tear of this many seasons under the microscope has to be exhausting. They'll tell you to a man that it's mentally and physically draining. Taking care of your body, compartmentalizing the anxiety of being a performer, constantly confronting scrutiny on and off the court...it drains you of every pore in your body. He would have had every right to go out there, play 40 minutes, put up his 30 points, hoard some rebounds and call it a season. He didn't and that's what makes him LeBron.

Jeff Van Gundy said himself that Indiana was the better team. They were. They outscored the Cavs by 38 points in the series. You don't have to stretch that hard to come to the conclusion that they would have won with slightly better focus and execution. Everyone saw it. Look, it was a great series, all you can ask for as a fan of the game. But there's a difference between gaining respect and actually having someone's attention. The opportunity was there for that Pacers team and they just came up a little short.
 
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Some thoughts on Boston/Philly part one:

- The Celtics are just deeper and better than I gave them credit for. Forget Hayward, forget Kyrie, this team might be better than they were last year assuming Jaylen Brown returns. Rozier is a real player. Morris is a great depth piece. Smart coming back was huge for that team.

- Tatum's game is far more complete than people realize and his athleticism in general strikes me as smoother and more explosive than it was billed as being coming out of Duke. If he had played for any other college coach we'd be killing him for not getting more out of him while he was in school. The Pierce comparisons actually look pretty reasonable right now. I remember I questioned the pick and placed his ceiling at around Jabari Parker level. That was a whiff.

- Horford has been an odd guy to evaluate. The advanced numbers love him, the tape loves him, all the smart basketball guys around the league love him. But those are also the type of players who are underrated for so long that they eventually wind up being overrated, and while counting stats are far from everything, 13 and 7 is still 13 and 7. I've joked that while he may be one of the best couple dozen players in the league, he is also the furthest away from being the best. He doesn't look the part and he does nothing to swing the freak of nature battle against LeBron, Giannis, Embiid, and Durant. He's almost the exact prototype that pops to mind when you think about the lack of parity in the NBA. He's the rest stop LeBron wipes his boots and charges his phone at on his way to the finals every year.

But the guy just knows how to play basketball. He's a great defender, an elite team defender, a phenomenal passer, and an extremely valuable shooter. There are only a handful of players in the NBA who offer as diverse an array of skills.

- Stevens might be the best coach in the NBA, and I never thought I'd say that with Pop around. From a scouting and gameplanning perspective, I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone as good. His ability to micro-manage assets and condense them into repeatable schemes on both ends is really something. However, don't underestimate the value of organizational stability. From ownership to Ainge to the scouting department, all the way down to video coordinator sorts, there's a homogenous mentality within the building that makes them really hard to outleverage on matters of player personnel and development. There is a shared vision.

- I still think Philly wins this series, probably in 6, but adjustments will have to be made on the part of the Philadelphia coaching staff. As I expected, Boston is content to pack the paint, cut off one read releases to the three point line, and force Embiid and Simmons into awkward faceups at the low reward areas of the floor. At some point, people will have to confront the limitations of a Simmons/Embiid led attack, especially when only Redick qualifies as a true marksmen (and even he has worked more off screens than as a pure spot-up guy). The others - Covington, Saric, Belinelli, Ilyasova - mostly hover around "good enough" territory on a lower volume of attempts, making it easy for smart defenders (Boston has a lot) to time their closeouts and gamble for steals. For as advanced as Simmons and Embiid are from a skills standpoint, they are still absurdly large human beings trying to dribble the ball through tight windows.

- All of this can be fine for Philadelphia, as long as they exchange two for two. Simmons and Embiid are freaks of nature who should comfortably endure the test of natural selection even if they are resigned to a diet of cluttered mid-range opportunities. Sometimes basketball is simple and if Philadelphia has the option they will hit a higher percentage of two point field goals because of the fact that they have bigger people. Embiid and Simmons - Embiid especially - generate shots for themselves with motions so effortless that it is truly frightening. I remember one play in the second half where Embiid caught the ball on left wing against Baynes, pivoted middle, took one crab dribble and was already in the paint (he lost the ball on that possession, but it seemed to be the ultimate example of Embiid being the only player capable of slowing him down - over time, that maneuver will be problematic for the basketball world). It's an especially worthwhile instrument to have in the bag in today's NBA where defenses are going to push you out of your area. While Simmons and Embiid lack the refinement to be truly great post players at this stage in their careers, they demonstrate a patience and composure with the ball that is difficult to contend with when leveraged with their sheer force.

- If Philadelphia continues to guard like they did tonight, Boston will win the series, because although it is unlikely that Boston will repeat their shooting performance, their looks were good enough that the Sixers will need to make some schematic adjustments defensively to shrink the floor and give their length a chance to work in their favor. The Horford pick and pop, especially, posed problems for Embiid, who was content to sag back as if he were still playing Hassan Whiteside. Philadelphia could counter this by switching - their big men are capable of guarding the perimeter and it would in theory limit Boston's three point game even if it were to cost them some rim protection. Stevens is smart, though, and if he manages to invert Philly's defense, he could respond by pounding smaller guys like Covington and Redick in the post with the likes of Tatum and Horford. The Sixers really have nowhere to stash Embiid when Baynes is on the bench (incidentally, Baynes was a -1 in 29 minutes tonight - look for Horford at center more) because all five guys can shoot. That makes this a very different challenge for them than the last round when Embiid pretty much single handedly ruined Miami's offense.

Regardless of the changes that are made, Philly will have to come to game two with much better focus. They're the more talented team, but their margin for error is also very low because of how they shoot the three and how well Boston defends. The way to win this series for them is to deliver a string of dialed-in defensive performances that turn the game into a matter of who can get more ugly baskets.
 
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Some thoughts on Boston/Philly part one:. . . more ugly baskets.
Yeah dude, I didn't read it, but I gave you a "like" to commend your effort and to say thank you for your regular contributions to this website - when I have time and when your post relates to something about which I am interested, I generally read and enjoy your posts. Thank you!
 
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Some thoughts on Boston/Philly part one:
Regardless of the changes that are made, Philly will have to come to game two with much better focus. They're the more talented team, but their margin for error is also very low because of how they shoot the three and how well Boston defends. The way to win this series for them is to deliver a string of dialed-in defensive performances that turn the game into a matter of who can get more ugly baskets.
I didn't read the middle parts of your post, but we need to re-assess the consensus that Philly is more talented. Yes Embid and Simmons are the two best players in the series, but Horford, Tatum, Brown, Rozier & Smart might be next 3-7 best and definitely most impactful. I liked Kenny Smith's analysis last night - Celtics are wayyyy more athletic than the rest of the Sixers lineup. Reddick, Saric, Belinelli & Ilysova looked really effective in the Heat series but were exposed on defense last night. Celtics are more athletic than all those guys and maybe the Bucks poor coaching/cohesion led us to underestimate their team athleticism. Boston has the better D by far in this series and the Sixers early playoff success definitely had them sucking on their own popsicles effecting their game 1 performance. Game 2 will be really interesting cuz Sixers HAVE to bring it, and the Celtics benefit via rest and Brown coming back. I thought it was 60-40 Sixers going in after inhaling too much Sixers smoke, now I'm vaping the Brad Stevens flavor and my mind is learning that if he takes Simmons & 3pters away Philly's plan C is classically too European = slow & poor defensively.
 

QDOG5

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Biggest move in the NBA this year was the one that didn't happen. When Houston was trying to get Melo before the season and failed to do so, they saved their season without even realizing it.
I always thought the potential Houston/Carmelo deal was a head scratcher. D'antoni already knew CA wasn't a fit for his system. He already had two ball dominant players in CP and JH. I'm guessing it was the theory that you can never have enough good players. I'm not a fan of Carmelo's play during his Knicks tenure but when he plays for Team USA he has consistently been one of the best players. Maybe D'Antoni felt CA's relationship with CP and JH was worth the risk. I'm with you @traitor71 in believing the Rockets are thanking their lucky stars that deal didn't go through.
 
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Brad Stevens repeatedly proves that coaching is immensely important in the NBA. So many fans think it's only about the players. Their team defense, effort and unselfishness as a unit is unbelievable. Everyone talks about how bright Philly's future is but I'll take Boston's eight days a week. Down three of their four best players and they smoke Philly at home. As I expected, they did a good job on Simmons, (18/7/7 is still a great stat line) he wasn't doing whatever he wanted last night as he did vs Miami.

The series will come down to who can win a game on the road. I don't see Boston winning a game in Philly given how poorly they looked in MIL and how great Philly is at home. Can Philly win one in Boston? I think it's more likely than not - I'm saying Philly in six still.
 
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I didn't read the middle parts of your post, but we need to re-assess the consensus that Philly is more talented. Yes Embid and Simmons are the two best players in the series, but Horford, Tatum, Brown, Rozier & Smart might be next 3-7 best and definitely most impactful. I liked Kenny Smith's analysis last night - Celtics are wayyyy more athletic than the rest of the Sixers lineup. Reddick, Saric, Belinelli & Ilysova looked really effective in the Heat series but were exposed on defense last night. Celtics are more athletic than all those guys and maybe the Bucks poor coaching/cohesion led us to underestimate their team athleticism. Boston has the better D by far in this series and the Sixers early playoff success definitely had them sucking on their own popsicles effecting their game 1 performance. Game 2 will be really interesting cuz Sixers HAVE to bring it, and the Celtics benefit via rest and Brown coming back. I thought it was 60-40 Sixers going in after inhaling too much Sixers smoke, now I'm vaping the Brad Stevens flavor and my mind is learning that if he takes Simmons & 3pters away Philly's plan C is classically too European = slow & poor defensively.

Redick's a damn good player, I think you're underrating him. I'd take him over Rozier and Smart for sure, maybe Tatum. Covington is definitely better than Smart - he's an all-NBA defender who shoots the three at a solid 37% clip. Saric is a 6'10 dude averaging 15 a game on 39% from three.

Embiid is the best player in the series, I'm less sure that Simmons is the second best. Either way, I'm surprised anybody is arguing that the Celtics, minus Irving and Hayward, have more talent than the Sixers.

I can see how coming off the Milwaukee series it might seem like a breath of fresh air to play Philly. I had the same thought. Redick, Belinelli, Ilysova, and Saric definitely don't match up well athletically against Boston and that was exposed last night when the Celtics pulled Embiid away from the rim and attacked off the bounce. But Embiid is too good for them not to figure it out. He's among the handful of players in the league capable of hiding multiple liabilities on the perimeter with his ability to protect the rim and contain ball-handlers. The Philly team you saw last night is not the team we've seen over the last two months.

(Non-related, it will be interesting to see if the Sixers dust off Fultz at any point).
 
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After the top group (Simmons, Embiid, Brown, Horford) the nod of the supporting casts is close but I give the nod to Philly. Horford has been great, I love Tatum and thought he should have been the top pick in the draft. Ainge got that one right. Rozier and Smart are so inconsistent. For as great as Rozier is at home, he just shot 27% in the MIL series on the road. I think some fans are getting a little carried away with him, even heard some non-Boston sports talk radio call him the NBA's newest star.

Redick doesn't create his own offense but he's still an underrated player by most folks. Belinelli has been great. Elyasova, Saric and RoCo are perfect players to surround Simmons with. Size, solid defenders, shooting but as people have mentioned, they aren't overly athletic. The big thing with Philly is that Simmons is much more important to their offense than any one piece on Boston (obviously, since they're down friggin Kyrie and Hayward). If Boston defends the three-point line well throughout the series this is gonna be a war for Philly.
 

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Redick's a damn good player, I think you're underrating him. I'd take him over Rozier and Smart for sure, maybe Tatum.

Smart OK, but definitely not Tatum. And it seems like Rozier has taken himself to another level. I keep waiting for some regress, but it's almost like he's getting better.
 

intlzncster

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After the top group (Simmons, Embiid, Brown, Horford) the nod of the supporting casts is close but I give the nod to Philly. Horford has been great, I love Tatum and thought he should have been the top pick in the draft. Ainge got that one right. Rozier and Smart are so inconsistent. For as great as Rozier is at home, he just shot 27% in the MIL series on the road. I think some fans are getting a little carried away with him, even heard some non-Boston sports talk radio call him the NBA's newest star.

Redick doesn't create his own offense but he's still an underrated player by most folks. Belinelli has been great. Elyasova, Saric and RoCo are perfect players to surround Simmons with. Size, solid defenders, shooting but as people have mentioned, they aren't overly athletic. The big thing with Philly is that Simmons is much more important to their offense than any one piece on Boston (obviously, since they're down friggin Kyrie and Hayward). If Boston defends the three-point line well throughout the series this is gonna be a war for Philly.

Ainge nailed the last two drafts with Tatum and Brown. Also picked up Rozier in 2015 which wasn't bad at that spot.
 
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Smart OK, but definitely not Tatum. And it seems like Rozier has taken himself to another level. I keep waiting for some regress, but it's almost like he's getting better.
I am actually shocked at how much I like JJ Reddick as both an NBA player and even more as a media personality*, BUT his defense is at best 'energetic when overmatched' and he cannot guard anyone other than Rozier & aforementioned Smart without getting pecked to death (Tatum took all of Reddick's May lunch money, he won't guard him again in this series). Good offensive player and great shooter, but Philly has defensive and athleticism issues. Likewise Belinelli is a defensive disaster and really does little besides shoot.
I forgot about Covington, fine he's as good as Smart in a similar offensive trick or treat (averaging whopping 8.3ppg in playoffs) but defensive constant with size. But I don't see him making the intangible plays the way Smart often does. I haven't seen enough of Covington to truly compare, but Smart does a ton that doesn't make a boxscore.
Saric, Bellinelli, Ilyasova each average < 1 steal/game, <0.17 blocks. Ily can rebound but all of those guys and Reddick and TJ McConnell are lesser defensive players than their Boston comparables.
I think the fact that Sixers weren't ready last night shows the experience gap and playoff hardening is missing. Yes via pure offensive talent you can see Philly more likely to get a road win, but equally via experience & savvy I see Boston stealing a game that it should have lost.

*Listen to his interview of Ray Allen, its really good and Reddick tells an anecdote highlighting the personal regard he has for Ray.
 
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He looks like he's going to turn into a steal at 16.

And at the time everyone said it was a reach. (Reach talks about draft order value, so fair enough, but still. Get your guy).

Ainge + Brad Stevens development = best GM in the league.

Daryl Morey thinks so at least.
 
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And at the time everyone said it was a reach. (Reach talks about draft order value, so fair enough, but still. Get your guy).

Ainge + Brad Stevens development = best GM in the league.

Daryl Morey thinks so at least.
The Fultz heist is currently so good that they won't even let the kid play in Boston. That trade down drew a knowing nod from Bill Belichick. He won't see a minute on the parquet or they risk his fragile psyche for another lost year.
 
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Obviously he wanted to win the game. There have been a lot of players who have wanted to win games and not all of them were willing to play balls to the wall for 48 minutes on both ends at the age of 33, having gone to the finals seven straight years and understanding that realistically he had no shot at winning this season. The wear and tear of this many seasons under the microscope has to be exhausting. They'll tell you to a man that it's mentally and physically draining. Taking care of your body, compartmentalizing the anxiety of being a performer, constantly confronting scrutiny on and off the court...it drains you of every pore in your body. He would have had every right to go out there, play 40 minutes, put up his 30 points, hoard some rebounds and call it a season. He didn't and that's what makes him LeBron.

Jeff Van Gundy said himself that Indiana was the better team. They were. They outscored the Cavs by 38 points in the series. You don't have to stretch that hard to come to the conclusion that they would have won with slightly better focus and execution. Everyone saw it. Look, it was a great series, all you can ask for as a fan of the game. But there's a difference between gaining respect and actually having someone's attention. The opportunity was there for that Pacers team and they just came up a little short.

In the interest of keeping this brief, how does it take you this many words to repeat the same points you've already said?

Also, even if you ignore the fact that JVG is kind of a caricature at this point, you're simply taking one person's opinion and then proceeding to state it as fact. No thanks to any of that.
 
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Ainge + Brad Stevens development = best GM in the league.

I'm starting to believe this. I think Stevens is that much of a wizard and the role players are the biggest beneficiaries. Jaylen Brown was very raw coming out of Cal, it's unreal the strides he's made in two seasons. Rozier went from not being a rotation piece to one of the better backup PGs in the league. Tatum was a polished prospect but Stevens is getting the most out of him.

This is going to turn into a Patriots situations where you don't want anything to do with FAs (or trade offers) who are leaving the Celtics. Already happened with Avery Bradley and IT. If they let Smart go and I'm in the GM of another team I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. Stevens gets the most out of a majority of the roster, guys who will not produce similar results in another organization.
 
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The Fultz heist is currently so good that they won't even let the kid play in Boston. That trade down drew a knowing nod from Bill Belichick. He won't see a minute on the parquet or they risk his fragile psyche for another lost year.

Good call....that crowd would destroy him....
 

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