NBA November Thread

[Mr. French]

I'm worried about it because of what we've seen in the past. He had the best offensive season we've ever seen last season and didn't win. He's going to up it this season like he always does and I still don't think it will be enough for voters.

He was unreal last year, but so was SGA and his team was incredible. That’s how it always goes, that’s the guy who wins MVP historically.

It’s not as clearly insane or 1-sided as you’re making it sound.

 

[Gurleyman]

I'm not even sure he's going to be great in the low post. I always felt he was at his best running screen and rolls, passing into back cuts, getting lobs. More in motion stuff rather than back to the basket or posting up. Then again, I'm a short fat fiftysomething.

That’s always been my feeling too. He plays really big on defense in the post and really small on offense. He’s not fluid and just doesn’t have that natural scorer’s body control, so smaller guys can defend him. It’s almost like he has T-Rex arms on offense and then he’s a pterodactyl on defense.

When he was here, i never really thought we needed to get him more paint touches - if we could find him on a lob or with someone sealed in the deep post like he was doing to Illinois, sure. But he wasn’t someone I wanted to see making post moves.

 

[Mr. French]

That’s always been my feeling too. He plays really big on defense in the post and really small on offense. He’s not fluid and just doesn’t have that natural scorer’s body control, so smaller guys can defend him. It’s almost like he has T-Rex arms on offense and then he’s a pterodactyl on defense.

When he was here, i never really thought we needed to get him more paint touches - if we could find him on a lob or with someone sealed in the deep post like he was doing to Illinois, sure. But he wasn’t someone I wanted to see making post moves.

Yes, he’s never been fluid and always been a bit clunky. Not that you can’t improve, but generally those guys don’t become master technicians.

He needs to get stronger and be able to make 1-2 little finishing moves. I’m with HW611 on that part, not necessarily that he shouldn’t shoot 3s but he DOES have to improve his finishing package around the rim.

 

[superjohn]

He was unreal last year, but so was SGA and his team was incredible. That’s how it always goes, that’s the guy who wins MVP historically.

It’s not as clearly insane or 1-sided as you’re making it sound.

The Thunder were much better than the Nuggets last season but Jokic was much better than SGA last season.

Giving the award to the best player on the best team over someone who is clearly better and who had a season like we've never seen before is not how the NBA MVP award is always awarded, it's how it was awarded last season.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

The Thunder were much better than the Nuggets last season but Jokic was much better than SGA last season.

Giving the award to the best player on the best team over someone who is clearly better and who had a season like we've never seen before is not how the NBA MVP award is always awarded, it's how it was awarded last season.

Again like French said, the difference wasn’t as big as you think. Much better is an exaggeration. You look at the advanced numbers, Shai is slightly better in Win Shares, Defensive Win Shares, WS/48. Jokic is slightly better in PER, Box +/-, VORP, Offensive Box +/-. They are very close, I agree overall Jokic is definitely the better player, but team success factored in matters. It’s not the gulf you speak of.

 

[superjohn]

Joker's skill level is the best the NBA has ever had.

His greatness is being taken for granted and sports media personalities are largely to blame.

 

[Mr. French]

The Thunder were much better than the Nuggets last season but Jokic was much better than SGA last season.

Giving the award to the best player on the best team over someone who is clearly better and who had a season like we've never seen before is not how the NBA MVP award is always awarded, it's how it was awarded last season.

Historically just not correct.

They’ve done this since at least Jordan, Shaq, Lebron…those guys were the best players many years where they didn’t win MVP.

Someone like Barkley, Nash, Rose led teams to an incredible record and while no one said “__ is better than Jordan/Shaq/Lebron” they were in fact given MVPs. They were deemed most valuable.

SGA led the league in scoring and his team was clearly the best in the league without another star. That guy usually wins MVP.

 

[superjohn]

Historically just not correct.

They’ve done this since at least Jordan, Shaq, Lebron…those guys were the best players many years where they didn’t win MVP.

Someone like Barkley, Nash, Rose led teams to an incredible record and while no one said “__ is better than Jordan/Shaq/Lebron” they were in fact given MVPs. They were deemed most valuable.

SGA led the league in scoring and his team was clearly the best in the league without another star. That guy usually wins MVP.

Now you're changing it from "always" to "usually."

Nobody is debating SGA has the best team, they're loaded. Jalen Williams was an All-NBA and an All-Defense player last season.

Westbrook got the MVP when his team finished 6th.

 

[HW611]

Now you're changing it from "always" to "usually."

Nobody is debating SGA has the best team, they're loaded. Jalen Williams was an All-NBA and an All-Defense player last season.

Westbrook got the MVP when his team finished 6th.

Jokic also won the MVP award with his team finishing 6th.

After SGA won the title last year, if he wins another scoring title while his team is #1 in the NBA he's going to win another.

There's an argument for Murray and Gordon being just as good, if not better, than J Dub and Chet.

The only reason J Dub was an All Star/All-NBA was because of the success of the Thunder.

 

[Mr. French]

Now you're changing it from "always" to "usually."

Nobody is debating SGA has the best team, they're loaded. Jalen Williams was an All-NBA and an All-Defense player last season.

Westbrook got the MVP when his team finished 6th.

Lolz (to steal your term) You acted as though it was a travesty and I said it’s always how it goes.

Most people in a human conversation recognize that doesn’t mean every case in history. But more like “it’s always been that way, it’s not new” then I gave multiple obvious examples.

I suspect you know all of this but just can’t acknowledge it’s not as big a travesty as you’re claiming.

 

[superjohn]

Lolz (to steal your term) You acted as though it was a travesty and I said it’s always how it goes.

Most people in a human conversation recognize that doesn’t mean every case in history. But more like “it’s always been that way, it’s not new” then I gave multiple obvious examples.

I suspect you know all of this but just can’t acknowledge it’s not as big a travesty as you’re claiming.

Usually is the word you were looking for.

 

[superjohn]

The only reason J Dub was an All Star/All-NBA was because of the success of the Thunder.

And Shai won MVP because of that same team success even though there was a much better player than him who had a season we've never seen before. He also had voter fatigue going for him.

 

[HW611]

And Shai won MVP because of that same team success even though there was a much better player than him who had a season we've never seen before. He also had voter fatigue going for him.

Well as you can currently see. J Dub wasn't necessarily a huge reason for the success. They're the best team in the NBA and he hasn't played a game.

 

[Mr. French]

Usually is the word you were looking for.

Again you're wrong!

I meant always, I just meant it's always been this way. This is nothing new. It doesn't ALWAYS happen, but it's ALWAYS how it's been. I specifically said "that's always how it goes" so most people that don't love arguing badly for sport would absolutely understand that.

 

[aceboon]

ESPN feature on Castle/Wemby

Welcome to Area 51: The Spurs duo putting the NBA on notice

Victor Wembanyama and Stephon Castle are taking San Antonio to new heights this season on both ends of the floor.

www.espn.com

 

[superjohn]

Again you're wrong!

I meant always, I just meant it's always been this way. This is nothing new. It doesn't ALWAYS happen, but it's ALWAYS how it's been. I specifically said "that's always how it goes" so most people that don't love arguing badly for sport would absolutely understand that.

It's happened about 60% of the time since Jordan, I don't have the historical record on the MVP winner coming from the team with the best record.

 

[HW611]

Crazy watching Dyson Daniels be Andre Jackson except he can make layups.

 

[aceboon]

Curry is still must see TV, back to back masterpieces in San Antonio. Spurs are bugging running these game closing plays for Fox over Wemby

 

[Scoe]

Knicks offense looking much better under Brown, and he actually uses his bench. Shamet has a career night with 36 pts, 30 in 2nd half. Brunson I'm guessing misses 2 weeks, OG comes out of the game with a hamstring injury of course so won't see him for about a month at least, guy is made of glass. Kolek still isn't seeing any minutes in year 2 even last night with no Brunson and they traded up for him smdh.

 

[Deepster]

The Wemby dunk on Draymond? Wow. How do you stop that?

 

[Mazhude]

The Wemby dunk on Draymond? Wow. How do you stop that?

I believe you stop that by deciding to run two straight plays for Fox to end the game... instead of just giving Wemby the ball.

 

[aceboon]

I checked the boxscores and saw Portland was down 20 nearing the 4th, I should have watched

 

[superjohn]

Big game for Clingan in a huge comeback against the Bulls and the Bulls win with another three at the buzzer. 17 points, 21 rebounds (10 offensive) 4 assists, 2 blocks

 

[Gurleyman]

Whoa - Clingan is 18-19 from the free throw line this year.