NBA November Thread | Page 4 | The Boneyard

NBA November Thread

Deepster said:
I'm not even sure he's going to be great in the low post. I always felt he was at his best running screen and rolls, passing into back cuts, getting lobs. More in motion stuff rather than back to the basket or posting up. Then again, I'm a short fat fiftysomething.
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All of this. It'll just be helpful if a defense does a good job of keeping him from getting a dunk on those rolls and he can still do a baby hook over them anyways because he's 7’3.
 
It would be nice if DC had a low post game but it's not a requirement for him to be successful on offense. As good as he is on the offensive glass DC could walk into 8 points just off of cleaning up there but he's so soft around the rim that he basically negates an advantage he should have there.
 
aceboon said:
It would be nice if DC had a low post game but it's not a requirement for him to be successful on offense. As good as he is on the offensive glass DC could walk into 8 points just off of cleaning up there but he's so soft around the rim that he basically negates an advantage he should have there.
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To clarify, by post game I don't mean he needs to be Jokic or Joel. Just simple things like a drop step and hook shot.

Jalen Duren dropped a career high 33 about a week ago doing simple stuff… half of it was just constantly being available around the rim. Not hovering the 3 point line hoping he gets a chance to chuck one up.

Only one move in this highlight was an actual post up and it was a simple drop step. This is not some hard, complicated, impossible to learn stuff.

 
There's more actual post work in the Zubac highlights. But still, most of this stuff is just being around the rim and having a hook shot floater. This stuff is not complicated or hard to learn. I hope whoever is in DCs circle can get his head right this summer on what he should focus on and not end up like Drummond who has to tell kids to avoid having his mindset stories.

This kind of hook shot would be perfect with his lack of aggression at the rim. Especially for someone who is 7’3 with a 7’7 wingspan.

 
HW611 said:
To clarify, by post game I don't mean he needs to be Jokic or Joel. Just simple things like a drop step and hook shot.

Jalen Duren dropped a career high 33 about a week ago doing simple stuff… half of it was just constantly being available around the rim. Not hovering the 3 point line hoping he gets a chance to chuck one up.

Only one move in this highlight was an actual post up and it was a simple drop step. This is not some hard, complicated, impossible to learn stuff.

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I agree with you
 
Just moved to second in Vegas MVP odds and third on Kia MVP tracker, what an absolute joke. He's by far the best player in the world. At this point he could be #1 in every category and they still won't give him another MVP.


 
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superjohn said:
Just moved to second in Vegas MVP odds and third on Kia MVP tracker, what an absolute joke. He's by far the best player in the world. At this point he could be #1 in every category and they still won't give him another MVP.


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It’s ~10 games in, don’t get too worried about lists and odds.
 
superjohn said:
Just moved to second in Vegas MVP odds and third on Kia MVP tracker, what an absolute joke. He's by far the best player in the world. At this point he could be #1 in every category and they still won't give him another MVP.


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Joker's skill level is the best the NBA has ever had.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
It’s ~10 games in, don’t get too worried about lists and odds.
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I was just going to post something similar but more snarky. He’s panicking over Vegas odds 2 weeks into the season haha
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
It’s ~10 games in, don’t get too worried about lists and odds.
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I'm worried about it because of what we've seen in the past. He had the best offensive season we've ever seen last season and didn't win. He's going to up it this season like he always does and I still don't think it will be enough for voters.
 
superjohn said:
I'm worried about it because of what we've seen in the past. He had the best offensive season we've ever seen last season and didn't win. He's going to up it this season like he always does and I still don't think it will be enough for voters.
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He was unreal last year, but so was SGA and his team was incredible. That’s how it always goes, that’s the guy who wins MVP historically.

It’s not as clearly insane or 1-sided as you’re making it sound.
 
Deepster said:
I'm not even sure he's going to be great in the low post. I always felt he was at his best running screen and rolls, passing into back cuts, getting lobs. More in motion stuff rather than back to the basket or posting up. Then again, I'm a short fat fiftysomething.
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That’s always been my feeling too. He plays really big on defense in the post and really small on offense. He’s not fluid and just doesn’t have that natural scorer’s body control, so smaller guys can defend him. It’s almost like he has T-Rex arms on offense and then he’s a pterodactyl on defense.

When he was here, i never really thought we needed to get him more paint touches - if we could find him on a lob or with someone sealed in the deep post like he was doing to Illinois, sure. But he wasn’t someone I wanted to see making post moves.
 
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Gurleyman said:
That’s always been my feeling too. He plays really big on defense in the post and really small on offense. He’s not fluid and just doesn’t have that natural scorer’s body control, so smaller guys can defend him. It’s almost like he has T-Rex arms on offense and then he’s a pterodactyl on defense.

When he was here, i never really thought we needed to get him more paint touches - if we could find him on a lob or with someone sealed in the deep post like he was doing to Illinois, sure. But he wasn’t someone I wanted to see making post moves.
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Yes, he’s never been fluid and always been a bit clunky. Not that you can’t improve, but generally those guys don’t become master technicians.

He needs to get stronger and be able to make 1-2 little finishing moves. I’m with HW611 on that part, not necessarily that he shouldn’t shoot 3s but he DOES have to improve his finishing package around the rim.
 
Mr. French said:
He was unreal last year, but so was SGA and his team was incredible. That’s how it always goes, that’s the guy who wins MVP historically.

It’s not as clearly insane or 1-sided as you’re making it sound.
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The Thunder were much better than the Nuggets last season but Jokic was much better than SGA last season.

Giving the award to the best player on the best team over someone who is clearly better and who had a season like we've never seen before is not how the NBA MVP award is always awarded, it's how it was awarded last season.
 
superjohn said:
The Thunder were much better than the Nuggets last season but Jokic was much better than SGA last season.

Giving the award to the best player on the best team over someone who is clearly better and who had a season like we've never seen before is not how the NBA MVP award is always awarded, it's how it was awarded last season.
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Again like French said, the difference wasn’t as big as you think. Much better is an exaggeration. You look at the advanced numbers, Shai is slightly better in Win Shares, Defensive Win Shares, WS/48. Jokic is slightly better in PER, Box +/-, VORP, Offensive Box +/-. They are very close, I agree overall Jokic is definitely the better player, but team success factored in matters. It’s not the gulf you speak of.
 
husky429 said:
Joker's skill level is the best the NBA has ever had.
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His greatness is being taken for granted and sports media personalities are largely to blame.

Screenshot_20251113_123307_Chrome.jpg
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superjohn said:
The Thunder were much better than the Nuggets last season but Jokic was much better than SGA last season.

Giving the award to the best player on the best team over someone who is clearly better and who had a season like we've never seen before is not how the NBA MVP award is always awarded, it's how it was awarded last season.
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Historically just not correct.

They’ve done this since at least Jordan, Shaq, Lebron…those guys were the best players many years where they didn’t win MVP.

Someone like Barkley, Nash, Rose led teams to an incredible record and while no one said “__ is better than Jordan/Shaq/Lebron” they were in fact given MVPs. They were deemed most valuable.

SGA led the league in scoring and his team was clearly the best in the league without another star. That guy usually wins MVP.
 
Mr. French said:
Historically just not correct.

They’ve done this since at least Jordan, Shaq, Lebron…those guys were the best players many years where they didn’t win MVP.

Someone like Barkley, Nash, Rose led teams to an incredible record and while no one said “__ is better than Jordan/Shaq/Lebron” they were in fact given MVPs. They were deemed most valuable.

SGA led the league in scoring and his team was clearly the best in the league without another star. That guy usually wins MVP.
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Now you're changing it from "always" to "usually."

Nobody is debating SGA has the best team, they're loaded. Jalen Williams was an All-NBA and an All-Defense player last season.

Westbrook got the MVP when his team finished 6th.
 
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superjohn said:
Now you're changing it from "always" to "usually."

Nobody is debating SGA has the best team, they're loaded. Jalen Williams was an All-NBA and an All-Defense player last season.

Westbrook got the MVP when his team finished 6th.
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Jokic also won the MVP award with his team finishing 6th.

After SGA won the title last year, if he wins another scoring title while his team is #1 in the NBA he's going to win another.

There's an argument for Murray and Gordon being just as good, if not better, than J Dub and Chet.

The only reason J Dub was an All Star/All-NBA was because of the success of the Thunder.
 
superjohn said:
Now you're changing it from "always" to "usually."

Nobody is debating SGA has the best team, they're loaded. Jalen Williams was an All-NBA and an All-Defense player last season.

Westbrook got the MVP when his team finished 6th.
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Lolz (to steal your term) You acted as though it was a travesty and I said it’s always how it goes.

Most people in a human conversation recognize that doesn’t mean every case in history. But more like “it’s always been that way, it’s not new” then I gave multiple obvious examples.

I suspect you know all of this but just can’t acknowledge it’s not as big a travesty as you’re claiming.
 
Mr. French said:
Lolz (to steal your term) You acted as though it was a travesty and I said it’s always how it goes.

Most people in a human conversation recognize that doesn’t mean every case in history. But more like “it’s always been that way, it’s not new” then I gave multiple obvious examples.

I suspect you know all of this but just can’t acknowledge it’s not as big a travesty as you’re claiming.
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Usually is the word you were looking for.
 
HW611 said:
The only reason J Dub was an All Star/All-NBA was because of the success of the Thunder.
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And Shai won MVP because of that same team success even though there was a much better player than him who had a season we've never seen before. He also had voter fatigue going for him.
 
superjohn said:
And Shai won MVP because of that same team success even though there was a much better player than him who had a season we've never seen before. He also had voter fatigue going for him.
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Well as you can currently see. J Dub wasn't necessarily a huge reason for the success. They're the best team in the NBA and he hasn't played a game.
 
superjohn said:
Usually is the word you were looking for.
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Again you're wrong!

I meant always, I just meant it's always been this way. This is nothing new. It doesn't ALWAYS happen, but it's ALWAYS how it's been. I specifically said "that's always how it goes" so most people that don't love arguing badly for sport would absolutely understand that.
 
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Mr. French said:
Again you're wrong!

I meant always, I just meant it's always been this way. This is nothing new. It doesn't ALWAYS happen, but it's ALWAYS how it's been. I specifically said "that's always how it goes" so most people that don't love arguing badly for sport would absolutely understand that.
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It's happened about 60% of the time since Jordan, I don't have the historical record on the MVP winner coming from the team with the best record.
 
Crazy watching Dyson Daniels be Andre Jackson except he can make layups.
 
Knicks offense looking much better under Brown, and he actually uses his bench. Shamet has a career night with 36 pts, 30 in 2nd half. Brunson I'm guessing misses 2 weeks, OG comes out of the game with a hamstring injury of course so won't see him for about a month at least, guy is made of glass. Kolek still isn't seeing any minutes in year 2 even last night with no Brunson and they traded up for him smdh.
 
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