NBA Finals Thread - Celtics vs Mavericks

[nomar]

I'm a Celtics fan. What you said has no bearing on the statistical record in question.

I agree with what you're saying here but OTOH, Luka's getting his on offense and the Mavs are WAYYYY below their average PPG. I think it's fair to assume that the numbers would be a little different with Butler, Mitchell & Halliburton in the mix, but probably not dramatically so.

 

[superjohn]

It's similar to the knocks on UConn's titles: "UConn killed everybody, which means college basketball teams suck, which means UConn's titles aren't that impressive."

Yes, every team has injuries. (See Porzingis, Kristaps.) But we're now beating a team that whooped on the team that took the defending champion's (and MVP's) lunch money. Half the world picked the Mavs. The Celtics were facing "the greatest offensive back court in NBA history." But now that the Celtics are up 3-0, it's only because Luka's banged up?

All you can do is just blow by everybody, ignore the chirping, and enjoy the title. (One win away.)

Where are you guys seeing this narrative? I'm seeing people in the media and on the board tearing Luka apart for playing no defense and they aren't talking about all his injuries and his compromised movement.

The narrative I've seen is that the Celtics are winning this series because of their defense, because they are the better/deeper team, and because Luka's defense is putrid.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Cedric Maxwell won Finals MVP and nobody gave Bird any grief.

Bob Ryan pointed out the same thing yesterday.

 

[Waquoit]

Bob Ryan pointed out the same thing yesterday.

Great minds...

 

[willie99]

It's about the specific stat of "holding opponent to less than regular season scoring average", which specifically cares about the opponent. So when Jimmy Butler, Donovan Mitchell, and Tyrese Haliburton all miss multiple games or the whole series, the best offensive player for each team, that matters.

The C's had the best defense all year. It's not luck, it's as simple as that

They're the best, on both sides of the ball. Just going to have to deal with multiple championships on the horizon. Or stop watching the NBA. Excuses are rather amusing

 

[aceboon]

would love to get Marc Cuban's take on this stuff and Luka defensive lowlights since he always had so much to say about the "AAU kids"

 

[Matrim55]

The C's had the best defense all year. It's not luck, it's as simple as that

Second-best. Wolves had the best D by a mile all regular-season and through the first two rounds, but they weren't built with as much flexibility as this Celtics team. And frankly I don't think Finch is as good a coach as Mazzulla, who's both innovative & flexible.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I thought Luka got fouled a few times and there was some questionable stuff, but not that one. That was a block and it was dumb of him with 5 fouls. He was playing frustrated all game after the first.

He’s gotta grow in some areas. He’s probably never gonna be Kawhi, and he’s good defensively with his hands, but he needs to be better staying in front. Thats not debatable.

I saw a clip from him in the bubble, he’s quick and agile…he’s gotta shave 20 pounds and get healthy again.

I’m the biggest Luka fan, but he’s got to be better there.

It is interesting, Luka has been awfully effective in the post-season and his size really enables him to get to spots and score easily over anyone who can't match his girth. Yet at same time his below professional conditioning is 100% part of him being a liability on the defensive end. It is almost like he is playing as he might post-35yrs old with wily veteran skilled use of size, smarts and patience to bend defenses to his will. With his size he simply can't move quickly enough to defend great guards or wings.

He'd be a different player if 20-25lbs lighter, I think the answer is add 15lbs muscle and lose 10lb fat.
Luka could definitely go even lighter, get quicker and score & assist just as much, wouldn't dictate pace the way he does now though.

 

[auror]

The C's had the best defense all year. It's not luck, it's as simple as that

They're the best, on both sides of the ball. Just going to have to deal with multiple championships on the horizon. Or stop watching the NBA. Excuses are rather amusing

Winning the championship is not luck. Setting an all-time record based on the context of this playoff run would be fortunate.

 

[tzznandrew]

Where are you guys seeing this narrative? I'm seeing people in the media and on the board tearing Luka apart for playing no defense and they aren't talking about all his injuries and his compromised movement.

The narrative I've seen is that the Celtics are winning this series because of their defense, because they are the better/deeper team, and because Luka's defense is putrid.

The entire narrative going into the Finals was about the Celtics road to the Finals and how weak it was (deserved) and how much better the competition was that the Mavs faced (deserved).

Luka is getting killed now, but when Jaylen Brown or Jrue Holiday win the Finals MVP, Tatum is also going to get killed. Luka is compromised, but he's getting his points and I'm not at all convinced his defense would be much better. His 6th foul was just terrible decision making: Brown was going 1v3, and Luka was the front line. What in the world was he doing trying to draw a charge there?!

 

[Matrim55]

He'd be a different player if 20-25lbs lighter, I think the answer is add 15lbs muscle and lose 10lb fat.
Luka could definitely go even lighter, get quicker and score & assist just as much, wouldn't dictate pace the way he does now though.

He would tho. We've seen it:



This guy needs to drop 20 pounds. It's the same (valid) criticism that people were lobbing at Jokic four years ago.

 

[nomar]

Where are you guys seeing this narrative? I'm seeing people in the media and on the board tearing Luka apart for playing no defense and they aren't talking about all his injuries and his compromised movement.

The narrative I've seen is that the Celtics are winning this series because of their defense, because they are the better/deeper team, and because Luka's defense is putrid.

Besides this board, on RealGM

 

[CardiacAndre7]

He would tho. We've seen it:



This guy needs to drop 20 pounds. It's the same (valid) criticism that people were lobbing at Jokic four years ago.

To be fair he’s a better player right now than he was. He certainly looks slower than he did in the regular season, the injuries are definitely impacting.

With that being said, he does need to drop 15 or so.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It’s funny how the narrative went from “the Celtics aren’t going to be ready for the step up in competition” to “well Dallas is banged up so what do you expect?”

Meanwhile the Celtics are going to win 80 games this year.

Other than the Luka Lovers, did that many people think this series would be close?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Other than the Luka Lovers, did that many people think this series would be close?

Yes. Many people paid to be NBA experts on television picked the Mavs to win this series. I saw a hilarious list yesterday but I've got a 1:30 so I'm not going to dig it out now.

 

[Dogdeacon]

The entire narrative going into the Finals was about the Celtics road to the Finals and how weak it was (deserved) and how much better the competition was that the Mavs faced (deserved).

Luka is getting killed now, but when Jaylen Brown or Jrue Holiday win the Finals MVP, Tatum is also going to get killed. Luka is compromised, but he's getting his points and I'm not at all convinced his defense would be much better. His 6th foul was just terrible decision making: Brown was going 1v3, and Luka was the front line. What in the world was he doing trying to draw a charge there?!

Yep, Luka might have caught the commit stupid fouls virus from Karl Anthony Towns.

Luka can blame the officials all he wants, mostly to try and get future favorable calls. Luka is the only one believing his non-stop whining to his own detriment; he believes he should get away with fouls. Bottom line a basketball player at ANY level that is down to their last foul, should NEVER try to take a charge 35' from the rim, it was a ridiculously bad decision that is entirely on Luka.

 

[superjohn]

Besides this board, on RealGM

I haven't read through the entire thread I guess. I thought I was the only one saying Luka is a shell of himself because of the injuries. I've been saying he's messed up all playoffs from the injuries despite showing some of the "Luka magic" last series. I don't blame him being hurt for the Celtics winning the series. Celtics are the better and deeper team and they didn't have Kristaps last game.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Yep, Luka might have caught the commit stupid fouls virus from Karl Anthony Towns.

Luka can blame the officials all he wants, mostly to try and get future favorable calls. Luka is the only one believing his non-stop whining to his own detriment; he believes he should get away with fouls. Bottom line a basketball player at ANY level that is down to their last foul, should NEVER try to take a charge 35' from the rim, it was a ridiculously bad decision that is entirely on Luka.

He could have easily been done after he wiped out Brown on that lose ball at mid-court with 5 minutes left. I laughed out loud when that wasn't called. That one and the Tatum dunk where Marc Davis raised his arm to signal and and-one and then dropped it after Dallas inbounded the ball.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I haven't read through the entire thread I guess. I thought I was the only one saying Luka is a shell of himself because of the injuries. I've been saying he's messed up all playoffs from the injuries despite showing some of the "Luka magic" last series. I don't blame him being hurt for the Celtics winning the series. Celtics are the better and deeper team and they didn't have Kristaps last game.

I can't imagine he helps himself from an injury standpoint with his fitness level. It's really insane for a wing/guard to be in that kind of shape.

 

[tzznandrew]

 

[nomar]

Yes. Many people paid to be NBA experts on television picked the Mavs to win this series. I saw a hilarious list yesterday but I've got a 1:30 so I'm not going to dig it out now.

 

[HooperScooper]

I have a conundrum tomorrow night. Someone gave me a free ticket for game 5, if it's played. So I have to root for the Mavs to win game 4. Even though it's a low probability that the Mavs win 4 straight, you never want to let the other team win and let them back in the series. But there probably won't be many, if any, times in my life I'll be at a game that clinches the NBA Finals. So "Go Mavs" tomorrow.

I actually was at game 6 two years ago when the Warriors clinched the NBA Finals in Boston. I didn't even stay for the trophy presentation then because I figured who wants to see that on your home court.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I have a conundrum tomorrow night. Someone gave me a free ticket for game 5, if it's played. So I have to root for the Mavs to win game 4. Even though it's a low probability that the Mavs win 4 straight, you never want to let the other team win and let them back in the series. But there probably won't be many, if any, times in my life I'll be at a game that clinches the NBA Finals. So "Go Mavs" tomorrow.

I actually was at game 6 two years ago when the Warriors clinched the NBA Finals in Boston. I didn't even stay for the trophy presentation then because I figured who wants to see that on your home court.

Three separate Boston friends of mine have raised this conundrum in the last 24 hours.

 

[nomar]

I have a conundrum tomorrow night. Someone gave me a free ticket for game 5, if it's played. So I have to root for the Mavs to win game 4. Even though it's a low probability that the Mavs win 4 straight, you never want to let the other team win and let them back in the series. But there probably won't be many, if any, times in my life I'll be at a game that clinches the NBA Finals. So "Go Mavs" tomorrow.

I actually was at game 6 two years ago when the Warriors clinched the NBA Finals in Boston. I didn't even stay for the trophy presentation then because I figured who wants to see that on your home court.

1. Never root against your team. Bad karma. Would it have been better if the ‘04 Sox broke the Curse at home? Of course. Was I rooting like he.ll for them to win Game 4? You bet.

2. I’m leaving for a 1-week trip to Italy tomorrow. So putting aside (1), I want this baby wrapped up tonight!

 

[HooperScooper]

1. Never root against your team. Bad karma. Would it have been better if the ‘04 Sox broke the Curse at home? Of course. Was I rooting like he.ll for them to win Game 4? You bet.

Can't argue with that. I will not openly root for the Mavs. But I won't be upset if the Celtics lose.