NBA Draft

[methodology]

OK so I don't really have a horse in the race as I don't closely follow the NBA. However, I do check in and a close friend of mine is a Knicks fan.

If you're the Knicks and either of the following deals were presented to you would you do either of them? Both? Neither?

Trade Scenario 1:

Knicks get: Brandon Knight, Alex Len, PJ Tucker, Archie Goodwin, and the No. 4 and No. 13 picks
Cavs get: Carmelo Anthony, Robin Lopez, Eric Bledsoe
Suns get: Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Mo Williams, and Sasha Kaun

Trade Scenario 2:
Knicks get: Georgui Deng, Nikola Pekovic, Shabazz Muhammad, No. 5 pick.
Cavs get: Carmelo Anthony, Tyus Jones
Timberwolves get: Kevin Love

I think if I'm the Knicks I would do either deal. I think getting rid of Anthony now while he still has value is paramount. However if both were offered at the same time, I'd go with package from the Suns. Brandon Knight can be a big PG for them since that's what Phil likes. Goodwin can score and Len has some potential. I also think getting the extra lottery pick would be huge for the Knicks. If they could get a guy like Jaylen Brown at 4 and then maybe a guy like Sabonis at 13 that'd be huge for them.

Trade 2 scenario is laughable from the Twolves perspective. They would never make that trade in 100 years. Coach Thibs is a defensive minded coach and they already have a decent front court in KAT and Deng. They need a knock down shooter/2 guard to make their lineup potent. They dont need or want Love.

Thibs said he chose the Twolves because they had the best young core in the league in his opinion with KAT, Wiggins and Levine. If Levine can tighten up his handle or continue to get better he will be more than just a freak athlete. Twolves are going to be scary in the coming years if they can keep that team together. Dunn, Hield, or Murray are great picks for them at #5.

Thibs also really wants to trade for Butler so who knows what will happen.

 

[EBonz30]

Trade 2 scenario is laughable from the Twolves perspective. They would never make that trade in 100 years. Coach Thibs is a defensive minded coach and they already have a decent front court in KAT and Deng. They need a knock down shooter/2 guard to make their lineup potent. They dont need or want Love.

Thibs said he chose the Twolves because they had the best young core in the league in his opinion with KAT, Wiggins and Levine. If Levine can tighten up his handle or continue to get better he will be more than just a freak athlete. Twolves are going to be scary in the coming years if they can keep that team together. Dunn, Hield, or Murray are great picks for them at #5.

Thibs also really wants to trade for Butler so who knows what will happen.

In reality unless your on the brink of a championship, no intelligent person wants Melo....

 

[KemBuckets21]

OK so I don't really have a horse in the race as I don't closely follow the NBA. However, I do check in and a close friend of mine is a Knicks fan.

If you're the Knicks and either of the following deals were presented to you would you do either of them? Both? Neither?

Trade Scenario 1:

Knicks get: Brandon Knight, Alex Len, PJ Tucker, Archie Goodwin, and the No. 4 and No. 13 picks
Cavs get: Carmelo Anthony, Robin Lopez, Eric Bledsoe
Suns get: Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Mo Williams, and Sasha Kaun

Trade Scenario 2:
Knicks get: Georgui Deng, Nikola Pekovic, Shabazz Muhammad, No. 5 pick.
Cavs get: Carmelo Anthony, Tyus Jones
Timberwolves get: Kevin Love

I think if I'm the Knicks I would do either deal. I think getting rid of Anthony now while he still has value is paramount. However if both were offered at the same time, I'd go with package from the Suns. Brandon Knight can be a big PG for them since that's what Phil likes. Goodwin can score and Len has some potential. I also think getting the extra lottery pick would be huge for the Knicks. If they could get a guy like Jaylen Brown at 4 and then maybe a guy like Sabonis at 13 that'd be huge for them.

Trade 2 is abysmal for the wolves and I say that without really knowing how this deal would affect their money situation, but that would have to be one of the major considerations. K love's value has dropped precipitously and he doesn't really do anything to move improve their long term prospects.

I live in NY and want to see the knicks regain some of their early 90's form atop the east. Trade one would go a ways towards accomplishing that. Cavs aren't trading kyrie after their win and i'm sure K love is still on the table.

 

[KemBuckets21]

Trade 2 scenario is laughable from the Twolves perspective. They would never make that trade in 100 years. Coach Thibs is a defensive minded coach and they already have a decent front court in KAT and Deng. They need a knock down shooter/2 guard to make their lineup potent. They dont need or want Love.

Thibs said he chose the Twolves because they had the best young core in the league in his opinion with KAT, Wiggins and Levine. If Levine can tighten up his handle or continue to get better he will be more than just a freak athlete. Twolves are going to be scary in the coming years if they can keep that team together. Dunn, Hield, or Murray are great picks for them at #5.

Thibs also really wants to trade for Butler so who knows what will happen.

I think KAT is going to be a top 10 player by his third year in the league, he doesn't seem to have any weaknesses. When I do drafts in NBA 2k16 (video game) he is taken between 10th and 15th already.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I agree to an extent with Simmons but I think we're looking at a kid who knew he was a lock for a top 3 pick since his days at monteverde so he wasn't putting the pedal to the metal the way a guy like dunn had to, in order to prove his worth and spot in the lottery. Simmons looks like a more athletic Odom to me with better passing instincts. I wouldn't be shocked if simmons averaged 16 pts, 8 boards and 5 assists on close to 50% shooting and low to mid 70's from the stripe. His upside is pretty hight, esp if he develops that shot.

I agree on Ingram to an extent as well. The KD comps were easy, but people forget KD was 215 coming out of UT at 6'9 and he looked skinny at that weight. Ingram is like 20 pounds lighter and looks borderline emaciated. Ingram will struggle with the physicality of the nba. Others have said he looks similar to Giannis, but imo he is far more versatile than ingram.

DraftExpress: Pre Draft Measurements

Yeah, I hear you on Simmons - I can see the versatility in his game and the Odom comparison is a good one. I'd absolutely take him over Ingram, but that's no shocker. The worry is the motor, competitiveness etc... I'd be asking a lot of questions about the LSU situation and if the coaching was truly awful, then I'd be more encouraged. Otherwise I'd shop the pick.

To me the Ingram comp is Tayshaun Prince, Ingram a better version but similar roles at least. Kevin Durant was unbelievable to watch in college and as close to unquestioned superstar as you can get, Ingram at least to this point not in that ballpark.

Best case scenario for the Celtics is someone picking 4,5 or 6 wants the #3 and the Celtics feel good about whomever they want dropping. I don't see either the Lakers or Sixers trading down for the #3 and anything the Celtics have on the roster. And I wouldn't trade #3 for Okafor or Noel or Embid.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't love this draft, Simmons didn't impress me with his college play and Ingram while a very nice scorer is way too slight for the NBA right now. After those two its a total mosh-pit of guys projected 3-7 or 8 all with flaws that make them more likely average NBA players then stars.

SIXERS - If you agree neither Simmons or Ingram is a franchise changing star (at lease not in their rookie year) then the Sixers are screwed again, more penance for purposefully throwing games for 3 years. They really need to make a trade, but everyone knows that Okafor and Noel are halves, too bad you can't have them tag at half court. I think the 76ers should showcase that Embid is healthy in training camp and then trade him to balance out their roster.

LA - Yawn, they are years away and neither Ingram nor Simmons is going to accelerate that. They might get a free agent though, Walton was a great hire and will help them lure players.

CELTICS - Given all that and the trade market, if I'm the Celtics I take one of the upside gamble guys and see if they can develop him. This likely means a full-step back and the team is no more competitive next year and is relying on a 2017 draft or draft-pick-trade to get to the upper echelon in the eastern conference.
So I'd pick Dragan Bender (while knowing 0 about him, questioning why he can't even start in Israel etc..) or Jaylen Brown (I haven't seen him play either).

I like Dunn, Hield, Sabonis & Valentine as best bets to be starters and contribute right away.

Sleepers: Brice Johnson (skinny but keeps improving), Thon Maker, Bembry (poor man's DrJ), Perry Ellis, Selden (TAllen type), Cat Barber (on right team he'd be Nate W type)

Busts: Poetl (Sabonis ate his lunch), Skal, Diamond Stone (went to wrong college for his devel), Tyler Ulis (150lbs, really?!).

Can't argue most of this. I think there may be a star or two here. I don't think anyone knows who that is, so people are drafting based on which guys are most likely to be that guy. It probably is Simmons. But he's more likely to be a dud than Ingram or Dunn, or Jamal Murray. Bender and Brown have upside, but also could be complete duds. Further down there are some solid guys, so it is a decent draft for good teams, a weak one for poor teams.

 

[gtcam]

Before the usuals jump all over me, let me state this first - Kris Dunn is a very good guard
That being said, I am not quite as optimistic about him as many - injuries and suspect outside shot
I would be disappointed if the Celts chose him as well as don't think Buddy is the answer.
Celts need a K Durant type player.
To be frank, I rather liked the team they had this year but need that sharp shooting 4.
This draft is one of the weakest in years
Figures its the one that the Cs have a stockpile.
It will be interesting

 

[KemBuckets21]

Before the usuals jump all over me, let me state this first - Kris Dunn is a very good guard
That being said, I am not quite as optimistic about him as many - injuries and suspect outside shot
I would be disappointed if the Celts chose him as well as don't think Buddy is the answer.
Celts need a K Durant type player.
To be frank, I rather liked the team they had this year but need that sharp shooting 4.
This draft is one of the weakest in years
Figures its the one that the Cs have a stockpile.
It will be interesting

Who doesn't need a k durant type player? Top 3-5 players don't grow on trees.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Who doesn't need a k durant type player? Top 3-5 players don't grow on trees.

I think (hope) he just means a good small forward/wing type player. It is the greatest need for the C's and the reason I was bummed that they didn't get the 1-2 pick. Not so much that those two guys are great, but they are both at a need position.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I think (hope) he just means a good small forward/wing type player. It is the greatest need for the C's and the reason I was bummed that they didn't get the 1-2 pick. Not so much that those two guys are great, but they are both at a need position.

I honestly don't know what the greatest positional need is for the Celtics. I'd be most inclined to say Center because at the 5-spot their roster is below average. After that I'd say PF, then PG 3rd since they have guys that can play there even if they are more scoring guards. But they have both weak players and a lack of players that are 6'8" or taller.

PG - Maybe they don't have one, or maybe Isaiah or MSmart is a hybrid PG
SG- They've got at least 1 above average in Avery Bradley, Smart and Isaiah also above average if playing the 2. Rozier should be serviceable in 16-17 albeit too similar to Bradley (making Bradley their most trade-able player if they believe in Rozier)
SF* - Crowder is very good at this spot and can play 4 as well. Turner was very good in his role last year & Jeberko is hit or miss, if they can get Turner cost effectively I'd welcome him back.
PF - Amir Johnson, Sullinger (not under contract, I'd pass GET IN SHAPE?!)- a weakness and shortage
C - Zeller (not under contract), Olynyk - a weakness & shortage

Given the weakness in the frontcourt combined with need for a superstar I reiterate that they have to gamble a bit and draft either Bender or JBrown (if he's a SF then Crowder moves to PF). If you don't like either of these guys trade down and draft either Marquese Chriss or Sabonis.

Their other problem is the 3-4 guys (Smart, Isaiah, Bradley, Crowder) that are attractive to other teams via trade are ALL needed to build a competitive roster around a star. I.e. if you trade Marcus Smart (and to me Smart is the most un-touchable guy they have) & #3 for Butler you have upgraded, but you still only have 3-4 playoff team type guys. Ditto if they trade Crowder + something for Love. IF you draft right you can end up with 4-5 .

*Bummer that James Young hasn't panned out. His best basketball consists entirely of the jumpers he hit vs us in the NCAA finals. A long time ago. Not sure what his deal/problem is. This story and accompanying stats are brutal. Cap fodder in a trade most likely.
Is it time for the Celtics to say goodbye to James Young?

 

[mauconnfan]

Celts have been talking to Portland about Khris Middleton some say. Not sure if it was mentioned above and i missed it - wondering what C fans think of that as I haven't really seen him play?

 

[BearJWS]

Celts have been talking to Portland about Khris Middleton some say. Not sure if it was mentioned above and i missed it - wondering what C fans think of that as I haven't really seen him play?

You probably haven't seen him play, because he plays for Milwaukee. He's a good shooter though. Decent rotation guy.

 

[James]

Last years thread of predictions was interesting. I like wade Baldwin and Deandre bembry a lot in the late lotto to 25 range. 100% not into ulis, I understand the IT comparisons but I don't think he's a good enough scorer for his size to play.

 

[HuskyFich]

Simmons and Ingram will both be STUDS. Don't kid yourselves. They're only viewed in a negative light because they didn't move up or down the rankings. Have stayed 1 and 2 since the preseason. Ingram might end up being better than Simmons based off the direction the NBA game is going.

After those two, it's a crapshoot. I don't truly like anyone but Jamal Murray. The celts should do anything they can to get Butler because dividends will pay off 3 years faster than drafting a Dunn or Hield

 

[James]

I think KAT is going to be a top 10 player by his third year in the league, he doesn't seem to have any weaknesses. When I do drafts in NBA 2k16 (video game) he is taken between 10th and 15th already.

Third year? By some metrics he is right there as a top15ish player. I would take him over dre and whiteside. Honestly there's nothing more exciting than new britain native thibs taking control of that minny team

 

[Huskyforlife]

Derrick rose just got traded to the Knicks. Cause the Knicks needed another overpaid scorer.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Simmons and Ingram will both be STUDS. Don't kid yourselves. They're only viewed in a negative light because they didn't move up or down the rankings. Have stayed 1 and 2 since the preseason. Ingram might end up being better than Simmons based off the direction the NBA game is going.

After those two, it's a crapshoot. I don't truly like anyone but Jamal Murray. The celts should do anything they can to get Butler because dividends will pay off 3 years faster than drafting a Dunn or Hield

A. What does studs even mean? All NBA? All Stars? I'd take the field vs Ben+Ingram for ROY.
B. Read this profile on Simmons. Lots of red flags (didn't got to class at LSU, scored 'high' on an EQ test so he doesn't have to worry about school, his entire family is involved in his 'brand', upset at the criticism, buying a bunch of jewelry, NOW he's taking working out seriously & added the requisite 15lbs of muscle* - honestly for a puff how great is he piece I didn't see one actual encouraging thing in there).
Ben Simmons thinks he has it all planned out

* MUSCLEWATCH « NBA.com | All Ball Blog with Lang Whitaker

 

[Dogdeacon]

Derrick rose just got traded to the Knicks. Cause the Knicks needed another overpaid scorer.

Just talking about this yesterday with Knick fan & other NBA fans, all agreed hoping it wouldn't happen b/c it would likely mean that DRose as a viable NBA player was doomed.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Celtics are rumored to be leaning towards Dunn
Phoenix Criss
Minnesota wants Dunn but it looks like he won't be there.

Celtics and sixers are working harder on a trade for the third pick.

Thon maker may not be 19

 

[Jerry1714]

You probably haven't seen him play, because he plays for Milwaukee. He's a good shooter though. Decent rotation guy.

Middleton is more than a decent rotation guy, hes a 6'8 scorer, he is only 24 and he is signed through 2019. If the Celts can get him for the 3rd pick they should do it in a second.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Middleton is more than a decent rotation guy, hes a 6'8 scorer, he is only 24 and he is signed through 2019. If the Celts can get him for the 3rd pick they should do it in a second.

He's very underrated, I'd much rather have him than the third pick this year.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Celtics are rumored to be leaning towards Dunn
Phoenix Criss
Minnesota wants Dunn but it looks like he won't be there.

Celtics and sixers are working harder on a trade for the third pick.

Anyone have an opinion on Noel? I've assiduously avoided watching the 76ers during the tanking exercise.
I might do Noel and #25 for the #3 IF I liked Noel.
Looking at his stats*, um no. 8.1 boards, 1.5 blocks and 11pts. I thought his big skill was shot-blocking?!
Sullinger has better overall numbers (PERs 16.8-Sully, 16.3-NOEL).
But maybe if Ainge thinks he could swap #25 + #23 & #16 for something higher or also get next year's #1 pick from a crappy team, like Philly!
I do think the Celtics rumors about Dunn are specifically designed to entice Philly to trade.

Would you ask for Embid instead of Noel if you were Danny Ainge or is that like using $1M to buy powerball tickets?

* FiveThirtyEight's CARMELO NBA Projections: Nerlens Noel
comps include Kwame Brown, Stromile Swift, Benoit Benjamin its a potpourri of former under-achievers.

 

[Jerry1714]

Anyone have an opinion on Noel? I've assiduously avoided watching the 76ers during the tanking exercise.
I might do Noel and #25 for the #3 IF I liked Noel.
Looking at his stats*, um no. 8.1 boards, 1.5 blocks and 11pts. I thought his big skill was shot-blocking?!
Sullinger has better overall numbers (PERs 16.8-Sully, 16.3-NOEL).
But maybe if Ainge thinks he could swap #25 + #23 & #16 for something higher or also get next year's #1 pick from a crappy team, like Philly!
I do think the Celtics rumors about Dunn are specifically designed to entice Philly to trade.

Would you ask for Embid instead of Noel if you were Danny Ainge or is that like using $1M to buy powerball tickets?

* FiveThirtyEight's CARMELO NBA Projections: Nerlens Noel
comps include Kwame Brown, Stromile Swift, Benoit Benjamin its a potpourri of former under-achievers.

I do not think the Celtics have any interest in Noel, if they make a deal with Philly it will be for Jahill

 

[KemBuckets21]

really? I thought they didn't want jahlil because A) he's a sieve on d and B) he slows down the offense and that's not the team coach brad wants to build.

 

[EBonz30]

3 players I really like in the lottery......

Jaylen Brown (been talking about him since January)
Kris Dunn
Domantas Sabonis

Love all 3.

 

[KemBuckets21]

3 players I really like in the lottery.

Jaylen Brown (been talking about him since January)
Kris Dunn
Domantas Sabonis

Love all 3.

The celtics could conceivably get 2/3 guys. I hope Domantas, Ellenson, poeltl or Valentine are there at 16.

 

[James]

Charlotte just traded a FIRST ROUNDER for Marco belinelli! What a horrible trade, not even thinking about how they already have lamb on the roster who is better.

 

[mauconnfan]

Would have liked the C's to get Ellenson, think the kid is going to be very good. This French dude is a monster who can shoot it from 3 - raw it would seem but never know. Danny boy better get a couple guys who can play. Jaylen Brown is 19, not sure he's ready, but could be a stud down the road? Interesting draft not a great one though by any means.

 

[caw]

Charlotte just traded a FIRST ROUNDER for Marco belinelli! What a horrible trade, not even thinking about how they already have lamb on the roster who is better.

Yeah especially because the pick was Richardson. He may not be a known quantity but he has potential to be much better than freaking Bellinelli.

 

[Tommyboy]

Charlotte just traded a FIRST ROUNDER for Marco belinelli! What a horrible trade, not even thinking about how they already have lamb on the roster who is better.

Watching the draft last night it just seemed like not too many teams actually value first rounders outside the lottery. Like they aren't worth it compared to someone already in the league. No matter how average they may be. They seem to trade away first rounders like they are peanuts. Bellinelli? C'mon.