Natalie Butler [merged thread]

[Kibitzer]

She wasn't National Freshman of the Year, she didn't bring four other top recruits with her, there are actually obvious factors (coaching changes) that make her transfer a bit less baffling. Diamond's transfer has been extremely controversial because it seemingly came out of nowhere.

Clearly, Natalie is considering a transfer to UConn. The ink was hardly dry on her release from Georgetown when she showed up in Storrs. The is not a guarantee that she will become a Husky, but it's a positive sign and gives us hope.

DeShields is an exceptional talent and much has been written about how and why she went to UNC. Still more has been written about why she left and where she may go. Diamond herself stated recently that she had not yet contacted any other schools and that comments about any "done deal" were untrue. I take her at her word.

I also don't rule out the possibility of her transferring to UConn. Geno would be wise to determine what motivated her to leave UNC and foolish to not give her a fair hearing. Exactly the approach he will likely take with Ms Butler.

Either or both would be sternly advised of two things: (1) Their next stop (after transfer) is surely their last one, so make a thoughtful choice; and (2) if they come to Storrs, they are subject to the rigorous UConn way of doing things -- plus the opportunities for development and championships.

With Geno calling the shots, I gotta like our chances. With both Diamond and Natalie.

 

[Husky1964]

Not to mention no nail polish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[winlots]

The only two things that Stef Dolson and Natalie Butler have in common is that both are 6'5 and both are white (just like Rigby, remember her -- a transfer TO UConn?).

The Uconn factor has not yet been established (but wouldn't that be nice!). Beyond those two physical characteristics, one is a graduating senior with two NC rings and a unique connection with President Obama and the other is a "rising sophomore" who was recruited by Brown, coached by Lewis, and may want to see a steady hand at the coaching helm for the rest of her college career. We know nothing of Natalie's dance moves.

Thus, the comparison (Stef v. Natalie) is inevitable but not really fair to either of them. Useful only to stimulate message board discussion, ultimately inconclusive.

Somebody else asked how Geno "missed" Butler. He didn't.

In high school, her development (then!) did not justify even a first look, let alone a UConn scholarship offer. Now that she has vastly exceeded all expectations as a Div I wcbb player (at 6'5" yet), I believe that Geno will consider making her a difficult-to-refuse offer.

To paraphrase Joe Adco ck (old MLB player, describing the impossibility of sneaking a cute pitch past Hank Aaron):

"Trying to slip a recruit past Geno is like trying to slip a sunrise past a rooster."​

And, yes, I like our chances with Ms Butler.

KIB: Adcock had a pretty good sight line on teammate "Hammerin' Hank" at the plate, so he knew whereof he spoke. And Joe could hammer it about as far as Henry could. Those two were two of the very few who homered into CF bleachers at the old Polo Grounds...not sure they were team mates at the time. Joe could pick it at first base....superb on defense as you likely recall. In any event, a clever make-over of that old line....got a chuckle here.

And if Butler commits as you seem to think, there'll be more than a chuckle.....you'll probably hear my whoop wherever you are....think she would be a HUGE addition for us. In fact, I think it means we would be in just terrific position to compete for more banners. I also think it makes great sense for Butler to come here, trying to look at it thru her eyes, based on the very little bit I've read about her thus far.

 

[Icebear]

fair question: so why is this possible transfer not as controversial as Diamond? both are unhappy and want change. seems funny to me that all is "normal" if a 6"5" center wants to play for UCONN.

for the record, I see nothing wrong with Butler going to UCONN or any other school. Just pointing at the obvious.

Because the recent history involving coaches a Georgetown makes the situation leading to a potential transfer far, far less surprising.

 

[HuskyNan]

I think the LV fan has a point. No one is questioning Natalie's morals or ethics here and no one has reached a conclusion about Natalie's willingness to work hard or to share the ball or passed judgement on her motives for transferring. And we're working with far less info about the Why for Natalie.

Should Diamond ever end up in a UConn uniform, people would conveniently develop amnesia regarding all the harsh things said about her here.

 

[JRRRJ]

Here is a video of her playing defense agains Xavier. She looks a little lost at times. Doesn't show any Georgetown offensive plays.

In fairness, it's an Xavier video and only shows their successful offensive series.

I didn't see what you saw on defense, especially considering Natalie came out to the 3-pt line repeatedly when another Hoya lost their assigned player. I like that determination and court awareness. She boxes out very consistently in the video, and is usually in a good position for a rebound.

 

[hjoerring]

I think the LV fan has a point. No one is questioning Natalie's morals or ethics here and no one has reached a conclusion about Natalie's willingness to work hard or to share the ball or passed judgement on her motives for transferring. And we're working with far less info about the Why for Natalie.

Should Diamond ever end up in a UConn uniform, people would conveniently develop amnesia regarding all the harsh things said about her here.

Arguably, Diamond has had a difficult time from many here- perhaps overkill, you might say. But the comparison bet her and Butler doesn't make a lot of sense, beyond the obvious. At some level (given what we read here about them) both have not stated precisely why they wanted out. In the ase of Butler it is alleged that it has to do with the unstable coaching situation; but here could be others. This is an acceptable expl for many. People are reacting to Diamond's because of the Fab5- a player openly recruiting others to join her in a class and making it a media event (of course players have recruited friends, etc. KLS is being actively recruited to ND by Reimer-- I have seen tweets). No one is saying, I don't think, that Diamond cannot leave UNC, but until we have an expl a cloud will hang, and people will unfortunately fill in the dots. This includes rumors that she wants to go to TN with her friend. Personally, I harbor some reservations. At the same time I respect her for the willingness to stepdown and out of the fame that she has achieved thus far, and the willingness to go somewhere else and build the whole thing up again.

 

[Vowelguy]

fair question: so why is this possible transfer not as controversial as Diamond?

I'd say Diamond's was more unique/shocking than controversial, though I guess there was some of the latter. All-Americans don't transfer often. And All-Americans on a team that is projected to be a NC contender even less so.

 

[Vowelguy]

Should Diamond ever end up in a UConn uniform, people would conveniently develop amnesia regarding all the harsh things said about her here.

I think I would enjoy watching that even more than watching her play for my team.

 

[Blue Huskie]

I think the LV fan has a point. No one is questioning Natalie's morals or ethics here and no one has reached a conclusion about Natalie's willingness to work hard or to share the ball or passed judgement on her motives for transferring. And we're working with far less info about the Why for Natalie.

Should Diamond ever end up in a UConn uniform, people would conveniently develop amnesia regarding all the harsh things said about her here.

You can only work with the information you've got (And seen) . I don't think it's going out on a limb to say the two transfer situations are miles apart (And not just geographically).
Natalie is leaving for a very common reason (Coaching change) , it's not very clear in the DD situation.

 

[reno tony]

In fairness, it's an Xavier video and only shows their successful offensive series.

I didn't see what you saw on defense, especially considering Natalie came out to the 3-pt line repeatedly when another Hoya lost their assigned player. I like that determination and court awareness. She boxes out very consistently in the video, and is usually in a good position for a rebound.

There were only about three videos I could find and they were highlight films from other BE teams. I guess Georgetown didn't have many highlights this year. She certainly hustled up the court a few times and moved okay under the basket. She just seemed lost at times, standing around under the basket. But you are definitely right about going out to the 3-point line to contest some shots. I liked that. She also stepped in and took an uncalled charge and then went for the blocked shot. She seems like she is a worker on the court. I bet she could set some Stef-like picks.

45 TO GO​

 

[Vowelguy]

Natalie is leaving for a very common reason (Coaching change)

Where did she say that?

 

[choochoo]

Well to this point no one has asked the really important question. Has Geno offered a scholarship to this seemingly gifted player? Maybe J. A. knows but I have yet to read it anywhere.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

There was some remarks about her not being another Stef because she wasn't the offensive player, didn't have the passing skills that Stef had. Well, I'm not going to say that players like Stef grow on trees but Stef, herself, wasn't nearly as good a passer or scorer in her freshman year at UConn as she developed into. If this kid comes here (hopefully) she will have the benefit of great coaching and the opportunity to play against some overtly talented players in practice that should help her develop herself. She definitely sounds like a girl who has a willingness to really work hard (ala Dolson) to become the best she can be and that sounds pretty exciting to me. Hope she becomes a Huskie!

buzzyboy- - You have some great points and everyone has to remember that Stef made over her whole lifestyle with a loss of about 40lbs. which changed her "game"! She became the best Center in the USA her senior year and a first round pick in the WNBA Draft! Never lose track of a person's "heart"/"desire"! If Natalie has 1/2 of Stef's desire to be the best she'll do quite well!

 

[EricSD]

Well to this point no one has asked the really important question. Has Geno offered a scholarship to this seemingly gifted player? Maybe J. A. knows but I have yet to read it anywhere.

Good point. If I had to guess, I'd say decisions would be made fairly quickly. UCONN is in the midst of finals (all the players are "complaining" on twitter ), so Natalie is probably close to being done as well. I'd think no matter where she wants to go, she would possibly want to be there for a summer session to get acclimated with the school and her future teammates.

Just a guess, but it would not surprise me to hear she's visiting UVA this coming weekend with a decision in the next few weeks...

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

The only two things that Stef Dolson and Natalie Butler have in common is that both are 6'5 and both are white (just like Rigby, remember her -- a transfer TO UConn?).

The Uconn factor has not yet been established (but wouldn't that be nice!). Beyond those two physical characteristics, one is a graduating senior with two NC rings and a unique connection with President Obama and the other is a "rising sophomore" who was recruited by Brown, coached by Lewis, and may want to see a steady hand at the coaching helm for the rest of her college career. We know nothing of Natalie's dance moves.

Thus, the comparison (Stef v. Natalie) is inevitable but not really fair to either of them. Useful only to stimulate message board discussion, ultimately inconclusive.

Somebody else asked how Geno "missed" Butler. He didn't.

In high school, her development (then!) did not justify even a first look, let alone a UConn scholarship offer. Now that she has vastly exceeded all expectations as a Div I wcbb player (at 6'5" yet), I believe that Geno will consider making her a difficult-to-refuse offer.

To paraphrase Joe Adco ck (old MLB player, describing the impossibility of sneaking a cute pitch past Hank Aaron):

"Trying to slip a recruit past Geno is like trying to slip a sunrise past a rooster."
​

And, yes, I like our chances with Ms Butler.

I recall Adcock's 4 homers in a single game.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Good point. If I had to guess, I'd say decisions would be made fairly quickly. UCONN is in the midst of finals (all the players are "complaining" on twitter ), so Natalie is probably close to being done as well. I'd think no matter where she wants to go, she would possibly want to be there for a summer session to get acclimated with the school and her future teammates.

Just a guess, but it would not surprise me to hear she's visiting UVA this coming weekend with a decision in the next few weeks...

I agree that Natalie will make a decision soon, probably this month. We know she's looking at UConn and UVa. Maybe she is reconsidering Georgetown too.

Geno at least agreed to welcome her for a visit. I wonder when he first learned of her interest--a few days ago or weeks ago? My guess is that he really likes her because of her work ethic, personality, and rapidly improving skills. We have not heard explicitly that she has an offer, but I think she has one or will get one soon. I bet Geno has talked to Doug and Harry about Natalie. And they've busted his chops about taking talent from their league.

 

[msf22b]

I recall Adcock's 4 homers in a single game.

i was at the game; Ebbets Field; hit a double too.

 

[Kibitzer]

Since this thread has veered toward Joe Adcock, I must mention his role as the spoiler of the greatest game ever pitched.

May 26, 1959. Harvey Haddix of the Pittsburgh Pirates pitched a perfect game for 12 innings (and nowadays it's a "quality start" if a starter goes 6 innings). The Milwaukee Braves sent 36 batters to the plate and Haddix got 36 outs. Unequaled in MLB history (but Don Larsen was perfect for nine innings in a World Series game).

The unlucky 13th was bizarre. The perfect game was ruined by an error; then a sacrifice; then an intentional walk; but still no hits!

Then Joe Adcock smacked a high slider out of the park. The first and only hit for the Braves. Three run-homer? No.

Somehow Adcock passed one of the players on base, so only one run was officially scored and Adcock got credit for one RBI and a double.

Final score, 1-0. Haddix had pitched the greatest game ever. But lost, because of that lone hit to Joe Adcock.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

i was at the game; Ebbets Field; hit a double too.

MSF...How neat that is and was.

 

[doggydaddy]

I think the LV fan has a point. No one is questioning Natalie's morals or ethics here and no one has reached a conclusion about Natalie's willingness to work hard or to share the ball or passed judgement on her motives for transferring. And we're working with far less info about the Why for Natalie.

Should Diamond ever end up in a UConn uniform, people would conveniently develop amnesia regarding all the harsh things said about her here.

They are both transferring. Other than that, no similarity.

One was a #1 recruit. One was barely ranked.
One won national POY and ACC POY. One won BE POY.
One publicly recruited 3 other top ranked players to join her. One didn't.
One led her team to the EE. One played for a 12 win team.
One everyone saw play. One no one saw play.
One had a coach that had no idea why she was leaving. One had a coach that left.

Why would anyone expect these two players to be discussed in the same light?

 

[robert]

1. Georgetown may have given her permission to talk to other schools but not yet signed off on a transfer. It is entirely possible that they won't do the latter until they have a new coach on board who gets a chance to "re-recruit" her. Hopefully that is not the case but it has happened before.

2. Given all the turmoil in the Georgetown program, with the coach who recruited her being fired for abusive conduct and GU likely having four different head coaches in less than four years, there is an outside chance the NCAA might let her play without sitting out a year. That has happened on a number of occasions in situations like this over the past five years. However it appears that a new rule will end that practice starting in 12 months. Technically a waiver could still be granted for 2014 - but I imagine the NCAA will be tougher on granting waivers this year.

3. She is the daughter of Navy's second best all-time player, Vernon Butler, who teamed up with David Robinson to give Navy perhaps its only nationally-ranked teams ever. He is still #2 in Navy history in scoring and rebounding.

this is a great news... i hope she will not be like the one from univ. of washington transfer then decide to transfer back home to new zealand...she can play and practice aginst kiah stokes this year then next year she can be the starting center with stewie and morgan.... our frontcourt is gonna be the big wall of the opponents...GO UCONN....

 

[robert]

If Natalie is interested in a pro career in the WNBA and/or overseas this could be a great move for her. She’ll get the same consistent coaching that molded Tina Charles and Stefanie Dolson and get to prove herself against top competition. The improvement in her physical skills since high school has been remarkable and her X’s and O’s development in her sit-out year in Storrs might allow her to be a first-round caliber player by graduation since she’s sure to have top players around her at UConn and get the media attention you need to be a top draft pick.

she gonna be a good basketball player once she's out of UCONN... you know the coaching staff are trying to get the best out on you...if she's willing to push and work hard to show her best....

 

[robert]

Natalie is raw, as Stef was. I'm not saying her footwork or hands are as good as Stef's, but they seem similar in some ways, including improving rapidly. Yes, the competition is less, but Natalie had a TON of rebounds last year. Her FT shooting, under 70%, is not as good as Stef's. I would expect that Natalie's offensive skills are the area that needs to improve most. Natalie did have the pressure of being the best player on her team, while Stef had an All-World teammate who got lots of attention from the opposition.

she can be as good as she wanna be.... remember when steff was just a freshman..she was not that good until after the stanford game and samarie walkers' transfer.... that's where steff trying to pick up her games....we can be patient with natalie and natalie has to do her job too... will work hard and follow what the coaches wanted her to do. thats one way to become a good basketball player like our graduates...

 

[baggerbob]

Since this thread has veered toward Joe Adcock, I must mention his role as the spoiler of the greatest game ever pitched.

May 26, 1959. Harvey Haddix of the Pittsburgh Pirates pitched a perfect game for 12 innings (and nowadays it's a "quality start" if a starter goes 6 innings). The Milwaukee Braves sent 36 batters to the plate and Haddix got 36 outs. Unequaled in MLB history (but Don Larsen was perfect for nine innings in a World Series game).

The unlucky 13th was bizarre. The perfect game was ruined by an error; then a sacrifice; then an intentional walk; but still no hits!

Then Joe Adcock smacked a high slider out of the park. The first and only hit for the Braves. Three run-homer? No.

Somehow Adcock passed one of the players on base, so only one run was officially scored and Adcock got credit for one RBI and a double.

Final score, 1-0. Haddix had pitched the greatest game ever. But lost, because of that lone hit to Joe Adcock.

I gave you a like , but he lost because of his own team's futility, they couldn't even score a run in 13 innings. I remember how astonished i was that a pitcher could pitch a game like that, and get no run support from his team. Back then baseball was a big thing.

 

[Kibitzer]

I gave you a like , but he lost because of his own team's futility, they couldn't even score a run in 13 innings. I remember how astonished i was that a pitcher could pitch a game like that, and get no run support from his team. Back then baseball was a big thing.

You have made your point persuasively and I do not dispute it. BUT. . .

Had the Pirates scored even a run (in first nine innings), game over and Haddix would have been just one of many (well, not too many) to pitch a nine-inning gem.

Give Lew Burdette credit for relying heavily on his spitball to scatter twelve singles and give no walks. Later, he joked that he was the world's greates pitcher cuz, after all, he beat the pitcher who pitched the greatest game.​

 

[HoopsFan21]

she can be as good as she wanna be.... remember when steff was just a freshman..she was not that good until after the stanford game and samarie walkers' transfer.... that's where steff trying to pick up her games....we can be patient with natalie and natalie has to do her job too... will work hard and follow what the coaches wanted her to do. thats one way to become a good basketball player like our graduates...

I disagree that Stef "was not that good" as a freshman. She was clearly good enough to garner interest and scholarship offers from other big time schools. If you're arguing that she was not as good as a freshman as she was as a senior, well of course, that's how it is supposed to work and could be said of Maya Moore and Diana Taurasi as well.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I disagree that Stef "was not that good" as a freshman. She was clearly good enough to garner interest and scholarship offers from other big time schools. If you're arguing that she was not as good as a freshman as she was as a senior, well of course, that's how it is supposed to work and could be said of Maya Moore and Diana Taurasi as well.

I think Stef improved a lot from December to February of her first year. CD had a heart-to-heart with her after the Stanford loss, and Stef began 2 workouts per day. By the end of the season, she and Maya were the primary offensive options. Though Maya was selected as the BE Tourney MOP, Stef was equally deserving. At the beginning of the season, Stef was not close to the same player.

Though UConn recruited Stef, a lot of schools passed, because they could not see her potential. She may have exceeded expectations at UConn as much as anyone. Credit to her, her family, teammates, and coaches.

Stef improved more over 4 years than most players. Of course, Maya and Diana improved over 4 years, but I think one can say that they were among the top players in the country, even as frosh. Maya was a consensus All-American for all 4 years.

 

[Suebird10fan]

They are both transferring. Other than that, no similarity.

One was a #1 recruit. One was barely ranked.
One won national POY and ACC POY. One won BE POY.
One publicly recruited 3 other top ranked players to join her. One didn't.
One led her team to the EE. One played for a 12 win team.
One everyone saw play. One no one saw play.
One had a coach that had no idea why she was leaving. One had a coach that left.

Why would anyone expect these two players to be discussed in the same light?

+1,000

 

[HuskyNan]

They are both transferring. Other than that, no similarity.

One was a #1 recruit. One was barely ranked.
One won national POY and ACC POY. One won BE POY.
One publicly recruited 3 other top ranked players to join her. One didn't.
One led her team to the EE. One played for a 12 win team.
One everyone saw play. One no one saw play.
One had a coach that had no idea why she was leaving. One had a coach that left.

Why would anyone expect these two players to be discussed in the same light?

You are deliberately misunderstanding what I said.

No one is drawing conclusions about Natalie based only on the fact that she's transferring. However, when it was learned Diamond was transferring, she was pilloried by several people and there were numerous derogatory posts about Diamond's character. It has nothing to do with the girls, their ranking or talent or anything else about them, it has to do with the posters here deciding a kid is transferring for X reason then proceed to either trash or embrace her based on whatever reason they made up. It's Summit-like and it's awful.