Naismith Late Season 20

[DefenseBB]

John R. Wooden Award Presented By Wendy's Announces 2018-19 Women's Late Season Top 20 Watch List

AAC

• Collier, KLS, CD

B12

• Brown, Cox
• Carleton

ACC

• Arike, Shepard
• Durr
• Mangakahia

PAC

• Ionescu, Hebard
• A Smith
• Anigwe
• Slocum

SEC

• C Carter
• Cunningham
• McCowan

B10

• Gustafson
• K Charles

Removing 9 seems very straight forward to me:
CD, Cox, Carleton, Hebard, Slocum, Mangakahia Anigwe, Cunningham, Charles.

The 10th player is between Shepard or Carter and I would remove Carter.

 

[bbballfan23]

Removing 9 seems very straight forward to me:
CD, Cox, Carleton, Hebard, Slocum, Mangakahia Anigwe, Cunningham, Charles.

The 10th player is between Shepard or Carter and I would remove Carter.

I wouldn’t remove Anigwe, or are you talking about the top 10 WBCA team?? Still then, I think she might be on that.

 

[nwhoopfan]

is the rebounding leader among guards in the Pac-12

She is probably the rebounding leader among guards nationally. Who is grabbing more than her? Currently 8.9/game. That number is just silly. She's what, 5-10 or 5-11?

 

[LoTrader]

If I had to choose between Slocum and Pivec, I would take Pivec. She is the glue player on Oregon State's team, even though Slocum makes more headlines because of her higher scoring average, more assists (as a point guard should have) and great speed/quickness. Pivec is a better defender than Slocum, is the rebounding leader among guards in the Pac-12, and shoots at a higher percentage overall and from the 3 pt arch compared to Slocum. Pivec can and does play positions 1, 2, 3 and 4, while Slocum plays 1 and 2 (aka Pivec is more versatile than Slocum). Pivec has more blocks, more steals, and fewer turnovers than Slocum. Slocum shoots free throws better than Pivec (only because Pivec was having an unusual bit of slump for a while shooting free throws). Pivec knows OSU's system and knows what to do, while Slocum is still learning and adjusting. Pivec effectively and regularly drives to the rim and scores, just not with the speed and flare of Slocum. Slocum can get a bit wild at times while Pivec is a steadier player and stays on script more. Now, if I had any say, I too would drop Hebert, add Pivec and keep Slocum on the list.

For comparison stats between the two:

Oregon St. - Season Statistics

Pivec's overall shooting %age is 55.5% for a guard/wing, and 48.7% from 3-point land. Pretty awesome stats overall if you factor in her rebounding at 8.9 rebounds/game. Not only that, Pivec (and Katie McWilliams) trade-off guarding the best player on the opposing team. Pivec has a motor that never quits.

 

[jonson]

Removing 9 seems very straight forward to me:
CD, Cox, Carleton, Hebard, Slocum, Mangakahia Anigwe, Cunningham, Charles.

The 10th player is between Shepard or Carter and I would remove Carter.

This seems right to me, although I would remove Shepard as well in order to add Jackie Young. It's my understanding that the Wooden All-American team includes only 5 players. If so, some very good players will necessarily not be realistic contenders.

 

[Vowelguy]

Ah, thanks! I thought it might be related to additions to the list or something.

Ok. 12 seniors, 6 juniors, and 2 sophs.

Unbelievable turnover in this list next year. At least 12 new names!

 

[bbballfan23]

This seems right to me, although I would remove Shepard as well in order to add Jackie Young. It's my understanding that the Wooden All-American team includes only 5 players. If so, some very good players will necessarily not be realistic contenders.

The question is, who would the 5 be? My guess would be...
Ionescu, Durr, Arike, Collier, Gustafson

 

[bballnut90]

Not sure CD or Cox deserve to be on here. Especially over the likes or Young or Anriel Howard (among others)

 

[Fightin Choke]

The question is, who would the 5 be? My guess would be...
Ionescu, Durr, Arike, Collier, Gustafson

You may be correct on the names of the 5-person All-Star team as far as the selection process goes. But I believe I could create a better team choosing amongst the unselected scraps. And my team would play defense and rebound as well!

Teaira McCowan
Alannah Smith
Jackie Young
Mikayla Pivec
???

 

[mbr33ct]

#justiceforjackie

For what it's worth:
Arike: 26.2 pts/40, 45.8 FG%, 55.2 TS%, 49.9 eFG%, 6.1 reb/40, 4.9 ast/40, 3.2 to/40
Jackie: 18.7 pts/40, 55.3 FG%, 61.8 TS%, 56.7 eFG%, 8.5 reb/40, 6.0 ast/40, 2.3 to/40

Well, there you have it....Jackie Young for Arike.

 

[Vowelguy]

The question is, who would the 5 be? My guess would be...
Ionescu, Durr, Arike, Collier, Gustafson

My money is on Brown over Collier.

 

[bballnut90]

The question is, who would the 5 be? My guess would be...
Ionescu, Durr, Arike, Collier, Gustafson

Not sure Collier is having a 1st team caliber year. I'd put McCowan on there over both her and Gustafson.

 

[Orangutan]

Well, there you have it....Jackie Young for Arike.

That was the point I was trying to get across, yes. If you're going to pick two from ND, I would pick Young and Shepard.

 

[bbballfan23]

My money is on Brown over Collier.

Collier averaging more points, rebounds, assists, steals & by a wide margin. But makes sense.

 

[Vowelguy]

Collier averaging more points, rebounds, assists, steals & by a wide margin. But makes sense.

(1) Stats aren't everything.
(2) I suspect voters will reward the best player on the #1 team, rather than someone who will probably lose some votes to her teammate, on the #5 team.

 

[bbballfan23]

Not sure Collier is having a 1st team caliber year. I'd put McCowan on there over both her and Gustafson.

Tina Charles POY stats: 18.2ppg, 9.5reb, 1.5ast, 1.6blks, 2.2stls, 61%FG, 0/1 3’s, 68% FT.

Pheesa: 18.8ppg, 10reb, 3.6ast, 1.4blks, 1.4stls, 58%FG, 22% 3s (27 attempts), 69% FT

I get Tina was on an undefeated team but to say Pheesa hasn’t had a 1st team caliber year is obsurd. Where would UConn be without her?? UConn is still top 5 & my guess will end up 3-4 ranked at the end of the conference tournaments.

 

[bbballfan23]

(1) Stats aren't everything.
(2) I suspect voters will reward the best player on the #1 team, rather than someone who will probably lose some votes to her teammate, on the #5 team.

This isn’t like years past where there is a clear cut best team. Let’s face it, the only real road test Baylor faced resulted in a loss. Everyone agrees the top 6-7 are pretty interchangeable.

 

[LoTrader]

You may be correct on the names of the 5-person All-Star team as far as the selection process goes. But I believe I could create a better team choosing amongst the unselected scraps. And my team would play defense and rebound as well!

Teaira McCowan
Alannah Smith
Jackie Young
Mikayla Pivec
???

Add Megan Huff and this team would stand-up to any other 5 players on the Wooden list

 

[biobioprof]

A. Howard over C. Carter
M. Pivec over someone (Hebard?)

nope.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Not sure who else to bump but Aari McDonald is another that deserves some consideration.

 

[biobioprof]

You may be correct on the names of the 5-person All-Star team as far as the selection process goes. But I believe I could create a better team choosing amongst the unselected scraps. And my team would play defense and rebound as well!

Teaira McCowan
Alannah Smith
Jackie Young
Mikayla Pivec
???

I must have missed something. How do McCowan and Smith count as unselected scraps?

 

[Plebe]

Pivec's overall shooting %age is 55.5% for a guard/wing, and 48.7% from 3-point land. Pretty awesome stats overall if you factor in her rebounding at 8.9 rebounds/game. Not only that, Pivec (and Katie McWilliams) trade-off guarding the best player on the opposing team. Pivec has a motor that never quits.

It may not be fair, but Pivec is stuck in a bit of a no-woman's land in the national awards landscape. Her scoring isn't enough to propel her into the national consciousness, and having great rebounding numbers or a high shooting percentage "for a guard" isn't enough of a headline-grabber either. Slocum, because of her history as NFOY at Maryland, is already in the national consciousness, which in combination with her (slightly) higher scoring average is just enough to put her ahead of Pivec in the watchlist pecking order.

 

[bballnut90]

Tina Charles POY stats: 18.2ppg, 9.5reb, 1.5ast, 1.6blks, 2.2stls, 61%FG, 0/1 3’s, 68% FT.

Pheesa: 18.8ppg, 10reb, 3.6ast, 1.4blks, 1.4stls, 58%FG, 22% 3s (27 attempts), 69% FT

I get Tina was on an undefeated team but to say Pheesa hasn’t had a 1st team caliber year is obsurd. Where would UConn be without her?? UConn is still top 5 & my guess will end up 3-4 ranked at the end of the conference tournaments.

Not a valid comparison at all.

 

[maccca3232]

The changes from the previous Top 25 Mid-Season list are:

Additions:
None

Subtractions:
Kenisha Bell (Minnesota, Big Ten)
Rennia Davis (Tennessee, SEC)
Rhyne Howard (Kentucky, SEC)
Aari McDonald (Arizona, Pac 12)
Jackie Young (Notre Dame, AAC)

 

[Plebe]

Notable omission: Jackie Young

Before I saw this list I would've had her as 2nd team AA.

Is their necessarily a direct correlation between Wooden watch list inclusion and AP All-American selection?

 

[Vowelguy]

Is their necessarily a direct correlation between Wooden watch list inclusion and AP All-American selection?

No idea. Surely not. But they're clearly loosely correlated. Someone who is not on the Wooden 20 is highly unlikely to, say, make an 5-person first team.

 

[ochoopsfan]

The changes from the previous Top 25 Mid-Season list are:

Additions:
None

Subtractions:
Kenisha Bell (Minnesota, Big Ten)
Rennia Davis (Tennessee, SEC)
Rhyne Howard (Kentucky, SEC)
Aari McDonald (Arizona, Pac 12)
Jackie Young (Notre Dame, AAC)

Geez, since the Wooden Top 25 poll, posted above, Aari McDonald of Arizona has averaged 25ppg, 3.5 assists per game and 6.5 rebounds per game. What did she do wrong in the next 7 games to drop off the list?
By the way, 4 of those 7 games were vs Stanford, UO, OSU and ASU.

 

[maccca3232]

Destiny Solcum's performances in Tier 1 games is sub par to say the least.
In 7 games she is averaging 13.6 PPG and 4.4 APG but on 38.4 FG% and 27.6 3FG% (i.e. 43.0 eFG%).

Chennedy Carter's performances in Tier 1 games, while not as bad, are still underwhelming.
In 5 games she is averaging 22.4 PPG but with 4.6 TO on 36.7 FG%, 38.9 3FG% (i.e. 43.9 eFG%).

They would be my first two out and I can only assume they are included as they are the 2 best underclassman.

Also agree I would include Jackie Young over Crystal Dangerfield.

 

[mbr33ct]

So quick to swap out Crystal Dangerfied for Jackie Young. Looking at their cumulative stats (YTD) (see attached) frankly neither one stands head and shoulders above from one other (too close to call as they say).

What are we talking about, 14.6 ppg vs 13.4 ppg? Jackie has a definite advantage over Crystal in Rebounds and Total FG%. Crystal is more of a 3-point shooter than Jackie, comparing only the 2-point% of each, .554 (Crystal) to .571 (Jackie)...if anything these tired eyes say, either both are mentioned in this Naismith 20 or both stay off this list. I don't buy the argument " I would include Jackie over Dangerfiel" theory.

 

[TheFarmFan]

TBH, I feel like the reason why CD is on this list over JY is because CD's teammates facilitate her better, and vice versa; they want her to help facilitate their shots, and that makes her "look the part" of a top PG much more. I often feel like all Arike and Mabrey want from JY is to hand off the ball to them let them take it from there.

For example, CD averages almost 20% more assists per game notwithstanding the fact that ND has made more than 100 more FGs than UConn (1470 vs. 1330) - so 9% of UConn's FGs come off a CD assist, while only 7% of ND's come from a JY assist.

I also think it's hard to have guard who rarely takes shots from outside, which JY rarely does (17 attempts and 6 makes across 22 games). Finally, JY is the fourth leading scorer for ND, which from an optics perspective makes it hard to elevate her to the top 20 in the country.

All that said, I think she's the most underrated part of their team (see how much they collapsed vs. UNC without her), she is substantially underutilized by ND, and I definitely think she's more talented than all but about 10 of the players on this list. I would be really shocked if any of the current ND players has a more successful WNBA career than JY. I simply don't think she's a great fit for her current team, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if she went pro this year, given how much they will lose next season and the fact that she's a consensus top 10 draft pick. You UConn fans may rightfully fret about what next seasons holds for you, but your roster will be no where near as decimated as ND's. MM will be in serious rebuilding mode for the next few seasons.