Muffet McGraw stepping down (merged threads)

[Biff]

How good a shooter is she from 3-pt?

She has an absolutely super outside shot. With unlimited range. (and you should see her "floater")

 

[domerduck]

It remains to be seen if Niele comes close to having the coaching acumen that Muffet did...

To be clear I agree with this statement. We don't know. My point earlier that she had a better record than Muffet against UConn in her roles as an ND player & assistant coach was just as I mentioned "an interesting observation". I do know that back in the beginning of the year when I was posting more on McGraw's Bench than here I posted there in January in response to the "depth of the fall" the following:

"I have to say this year it's coaching. Muffet's frustration has been obvious and the loss of Ivey has to be considered as mentioned by jon. My feeling is not only is Niele a great coach, but I think she related better to this generation of players given her age. She is old enough to be their mothers, but still played bball within 15 years. Neither Beth nor Carol are that young and Michaela is like an older sister. Still it all starts with Muffet and I think her attitude has affected things. She always relied on particular player's leadership which she developed which has been clearly missing this year, especially with the injuries and a lack of stable set of players."

My belief Muffet's decision two days ago was best for ND and for her given where she was personally. She had a bad year last year after two exceptional years. She was mature enough to know that this was a good time to retire even though I have no doubt she would have brought ND back to winning. Still I think with Niele we have a chance to be even better and we have a chance to keep the excellent staff that Muffet put together. I also totally disagree with Steelerone's post that ND "pretty much recruits itself". Niele was critical to their recruiting (especially at a school like ND) and everyone knew that. I know some think this could be like Pat handing off the reigns to Holly, but my hope this transition will be like Bob Stoops handing it off to Lincoln Riley...we may not win it all but we will be better for it. I think the Niele hire was the obvious choice.

 

[VA Huskie]

I have a thought on why Muffet may have stepped down. I had a long and relatively successful career. Often worked in very high pressure situations. Loved it. I also worked with a lot of personal emotion and passion. I knew that someday, the passion might die. And that if that day came, I’d be pretty worthless. Well, that day came following a particularly challenging corporate project that I managed for a couple of years. I stayed on for about a year afterwards, hoping the passion would return. It didn’t. I was lucky enough to be able to retire... and I did.

I wonder if Muffet went thru something of that nature? She indicated that she thought about stepping down after the 2018-19 season. Stayed another year and then left. Maybe she was just burned out... and ready to do something else. I wish her well.

 

[CPD016]

Just an observation - While at a ND - DePaul game a few years back I took notice of the fact that during time outs MM would confer with Niele (at length) before addressing the troops. Don't know if that was the norm

 

[eebmg]

She has an absolutely super outside shot. With unlimited range. (and you should see her "floater")

but travels alot.

 

[eebmg]

She has an absolutely super outside shot. With unlimited range. (and you should see her "floater")

@Biff . So guessing a manipulation with Paige in a super girl outfit is in the works?

 

[Alydar]

It wasn’t Muffet or Niele that engineered ND’s victories against UConn, it was Skylar Diggins. She had UConn’s number and UConn couldn’t stop her, for the most part. Why do you think so many UConn fans are so nasty towards her? It took a player as great as Stewie to put the final nail in Skylar’s national championship hopes.

Watching some of her games against UConn now I am amazed at how good she was. She owned Hartley and must have stolen a dozen Dolson inbounds passes, many in late game situations.
But whoever convinced her to stay home has to get some credit too. A lot of UConn's wins were due to players more than coaches. Geno has said as much.

 

[Alydar]

@Biff . So guessing a manipulation with Paige in a super girl outfit is in the works?

Wonder Woman,

 

[eebmg]

Wonder Woman,

I would not recomment WW's costume for a teenager

 

[Alydar]

To be clear I agree with this statement. We don't know. My point earlier that she had a better record than Muffet against UConn in her roles as an ND player & assistant coach was just as I mentioned "an interesting observation". I do know that back in the beginning of the year when I was posting more on McGraw's Bench than here I posted there in January in response to the "depth of the fall" the following:

"I have to say this year it's coaching. Muffet's frustration has been obvious and the loss of Ivey has to be considered as mentioned by jon. My feeling is not only is Niele a great coach, but I think she related better to this generation of players given her age. She is old enough to be their mothers, but still played bball within 15 years. Neither Beth nor Carol are that young and Michaela is like an older sister. Still it all starts with Muffet and I think her attitude has affected things. She always relied on particular player's leadership which she developed which has been clearly missing this year, especially with the injuries and a lack of stable set of players."

My belief Muffet's decision two days ago was best for ND and for her given where she was personally. She had a bad year last year after two exceptional years. She was mature enough to know that this was a good time to retire even though I have no doubt she would have brought ND back to winning. Still I think with Niele we have a chance to be even better and we have a chance to keep the excellent staff that Muffet put together. I also totally disagree with Steelerone's post that ND "pretty much recruits itself". Niele was critical to their recruiting (especially at a school like ND) and everyone knew that. I know some think this could be like Pat handing off the reigns to Holly, but my hope this transition will be like Bob Stoops handing it off to Lincoln Riley...we may not win it all but we will be better for it. I think the Niele hire was the obvious choice.

Comparing an assistant's record to a HC's is like comparing an acorn to an oak.
We can say that N Dame won at a better rate with both MM & NI on the bench than with just MM. We are about to find out how well NI can do without MM on the bench.

 

[uconnfan68]

Brunelle signed when Niele was still recruiting coordinator although it was Beth Cunningham who joined Muffet on the home visit. I can't think of any other exceptions.

If you recruit those three areas well, though, there is ample opportunity to succeed.

The dismaying thing for me is that Louisville and Oregon are increasingly able to recruit nationally like previously only UConn, Stanford, and maybe Tennessee had.

So there is more competition even for the elite recruits in ND's typical geographic reach.

ND’s typical reach is worldwide. No one should feel sorry for them. Ivey has been a top recruiter, and will continue to be. Whether some of the rest of the staff stays would be my question... Cunningham has been there for a while. Will they keep continuity or not?

 

[Carnac]

I look forward to games between UConn and ND going forward. It has become a good and healthy rivalry for both programs. It will be nice to know that there will be no "sniping" being the coaches. No "sniper" fire coming from the ND camp. Can't say I'll miss Muffet. I too became ill of the years of her churlish behavior. I agree with RockyMTblue2 that her envy of Geno translated into spiteful, boorish and snide attacks.

I expect Ivey to exhibit the same type of class and aplomb as that of legendary coaches such as Tara VanDerveer, Barbara Stevens, Jody Conradt, and the late Kay Yow. I wish Ivey the best of luck.

 

[SugarHillGang]

Not gonna lie. I won’t miss seeing the Irish Jig.

 

[domerduck]

There are generally three main reasons to leave coaching: 1) You get fired. 2) You have a health problem. 3) It’s no longer fun. In MM’s case it certainly appears to be #3.

I think there could be a 4th choice: You want what's best for the program, and you feel you many not be up to what it takes in the long run and your prodigy could do a better job. I think this had a lot to do with Muffet's decision. I think she realized there is more to life than coaching and the Covid-19 break helped cement it. I am sure her job with ND will still be rewarding, and more so if ND keeps winning.

You might be right it's #3, but Muffet is pretty wise so I am thinking there is more to it than just "it's no longer fun". I know she loves ND and she built it to where it has become one of the top 10 programs in the country. She wants it to stay that way and this way she can help from a different role with someone she trusts as the head coach. Also her assistants will probably be able to keep their job during the transition. This way she leaves the coaching role on her terms.

 

[gophers1995]

Fighting Irish' moniker found offensive

An open letter to Dr. Myles Brand and the Executive Committee of the NCAA -

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[Orangutan]

ND’s typical reach is worldwide. No one should feel sorry for them. Ivey has been a top recruiter, and will continue to be. Whether some of the rest of the staff stays would be my question... Cunningham has been there for a while. Will they keep continuity or not?

I don't know if this was mentioned yet or not but Ivey gave a definite non-answer when local media asked if she would retain her the current assistant coaches.

Basically said that she would worry about catching up on recruiting for a couple weeks before getting to the issue of her staff but that she was "looking forward to building" her staff.

I can't imagine her terminating any of the assistants but it sounds like it's not 100% certain whether Cunningham and Owens are coming back (I can't imagine Mabrey1 voluntarily going anywhere).

 

[Orangutan]

I have a thought on why Muffet may have stepped down. I had a long and relatively successful career. Often worked in very high pressure situations. Loved it. I also worked with a lot of personal emotion and passion. I knew that someday, the passion might die. And that if that day came, I’d be pretty worthless. Well, that day came following a particularly challenging corporate project that I managed for a couple of years. I stayed on for about a year afterwards, hoping the passion would return. It didn’t. I was lucky enough to be able to retire... and I did.

I wonder if Muffet went thru something of that nature? She indicated that she thought about stepping down after the 2018-19 season. Stayed another year and then left. Maybe she was just burned out... and ready to do something else. I wish her well.

I think this is basically it. I also think that winning a second national championship was the last major hill for her to climb professionally. Once that nucleus graduated and it was clear ND was far from title contention, I think she had no appetite for a rebuild at her age. Also, her speech at the Final Four going viral showed her that she had a platform and people were interested in what she had to say on non-basketball topics.

She has always said that she didn't see herself coaching at 70. It was really the perfect time to get out. She still has her health and can go out and fully explore things like speaking engagements, community activism, and teaching.

Meanwhile, her handpicked, long-groomed successor is more than ready for the opportunity. Ivey has the energy to dive into this rebuild and the talent to make it succeed. I also think that Muffet has an old-school approach and was finding it increasingly hard to sign and retain top recruits. The game of basketball hadn't passed Muffet by but the recruiting game was starting to. Niele's more overtly positive approach may resonate a little bit more with teenagers these days.

 

[Orangutan]

I probably should have been more clear. Niele was at ND for 12 years or so, 4 years as the Assoc. HC - basically Chris Dailey's position. She was probably more responsible for recruiting than Muffet, but I'll leave that for the ND fans to clarify if I'm off base.

Point is, my understanding was that recruiting was largely the purview of Ivey. Of course Muffet was the closer, but my point was that I think Ivey will recruit for ND just as well as when Muffet was the HC. Heck, just look at Tennessee - Warlick continued to reel in top 10-15, and even top 3 recruits on a consistent bases after Pat left. It's just that she did not get kids who worked well together, and her coaching left something to be desired as well.

It remains to be seen if Niele comes close to having the coaching acumen that Muffet did...

Among Niele's titles was "Recruiting Coordinator". Your understanding matches mine. Niele was doing most of the legwork in recruiting while Muffet was the closer. Muffet even said in the video introducing Ivey as Head Coach that Niele was the "face of the program in recruiting".

I think Coach McGraw herself was a draw to some recruits. However, I think her disciplinarian tendencies might have turned some kids off. Brianna Turner noted how one of the hardest practices she had in college was after a blowout win because Muffet thought ND should have won by 35 instead of 20. I'm sure that people like Kelly Graves or Jeff Walz seem like a lot more fun to play for when you are on the recruiting trail.

I'm sure she can be tough when she needs to but Niele is generally a ball of positive energy and warmth. ND might lose some kids that wanted to play for a Hall of Fame coach and they may gain some who are drawn to Ivey's personality.

 

[oldude]

I think there could be a 4th choice: You want what's best for the program, and you feel you many not be up to what it takes in the long run and your prodigy could do a better job. I think this had a lot to do with Muffet's decision. I think she realized there is more to life than coaching and the Covid-19 break helped cement it. I am sure her job with ND will still be rewarding, and more so if ND keeps winning.

You might be right it's #3, but Muffet is pretty wise so I am thinking there is more to it than just "it's no longer fun". I know she loves ND and she built it to where it has become one of the top 10 programs in the country. She wants it to stay that way and this way she can help from a different role with someone she trusts as the head coach. Also her assistants will probably be able to keep their job during the transition. This way she leaves the coaching role on her terms.

All that may be true. But do you really believe MM would have stepped down from her HC job at ND this year if she hadn’t experienced the disappointment of this past season? If the Irish had won 30+ games, another ACC title along with a deep run in the Big Dance I strongly suspect that this entire thread, now 372 posts long, would cease to exist.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Carl Adamec has an article out. It is write protected against nonsubscribers like me, but it is a worthwhile read. One of the things she'll miss, the UConn rivalry.

Journal Inquirer

The latest news from Manchester, Connecticut, as well as coverage of Enfield, Vernon, South Windsor, East Hartford and beyond.

www.journalinquirer.com

McGraw's record laid out in the article is certainly a record of a coaching great. Yes, she was less than gracious about Coach Geno. We might recall that when Pat Summitt retired, Coach McGraw said that "the class has gone out of the game," an indirect slap at Coach Geno. But you don't have to be nice or classy to be great. I just watched a documentary about Ted Williams. He was the greatest hitter who ever lived, but he could be a nasty guy. And that's OK.

I think the key datapoint highlighted in Adamec's article is the one pointing out that Muffet McGraw won more games against Coach Auriemma's Connecticut teams than any other coach in the country.

It's OK to salute a tremendous and worthy competitor. And that is what Muffet McGraw was.

 

[CocoHusky]

McGraw's record laid out in the article is certainly a record of a coaching great. Yes, she was less than gracious about Coach Geno. We might recall that when Pat Summitt retired, Coach McGraw said that "the class has gone out of the game," an indirect slap at Coach Geno. But you don't have to be nice or classy to be great. I just watched a documentary about Ted Williams. He was the greatest hitter who ever lived, but he could be a nasty guy. And that's OK.

I think the key datapoint highlighted in Adamec's article is the one pointing out that Muffet McGraw won more games against Coach Auriemma's Connecticut teams than any other coach in the country.

It's OK to salute a tremendous and worthy competitor. And that is what Muffet McGraw was.

It is never OK for any coach (Geno and MM included) to not display class. Part of the responsibility of any NCAA head coach is the development of young women & men. The HC position demands it.

 

[HopJim]

I don't know if this was mentioned yet or not but Ivey gave a definite non-answer when local media asked if she would retain her the current assistant coaches.

Basically said that she would worry about catching up on recruiting for a couple weeks before getting to the issue of her staff but that she was "looking forward to building" her staff.

I can't imagine her terminating any of the assistants but it sounds like it's not 100% certain whether Cunningham and Owens are coming back (I can't imagine Mabrey1 voluntarily going anywhere).

Without a vote of confidence, ND assistants would be well served to consider other options.

 

[Dillon77]

Let's explore this growing urban legend of Niele Ivey the great closer recruiter for a second. Closer for who and when? Maybe @Dillon77 can refresh my memory about the recruita palooza even that was organized by Niele. Who was in attendance? Who has ND signed from the players that weree there?

Interestingly, I saw this just as I was sitting down Thursday night to watch the NY Giants (my pro team to root for, btw) make their first-round draft selection and was going to answer afterwards. Then, my brother (also a Giant fan) called and 1/2 hour late...pfff!

Then, the next day the gun for the Mile(s) Race went off and away we all went.

However, I'd like to get back to this with a look at "Nielefest" and "Recruitapalooza," that unofficial play day held during an ND football game a few years back that brought in prospects from 2019, 2020 (mostly) and a few from 2021. Besides lots of posts on both the Boneyard and McGraw's Bench, how did that work out when most of it is said and done?

- The home team did pretty well, with four players/incoming frosh who attended:
---2019: Anaya Peoples had already committed, but she came, stuck with it and had a solid frosh season before bowing out with a shoulder injury. And that seemed to set in motion the courtship that resulted in Sam Brunelle turning Irish. Sam seemed to find her footing once Mik Vaughn returned to the lineup and expect her to improve on that. Outside of that, she's beyond an A+ teammate and ND student.

---2020: The Irish corralled Pa. and Philly Belle sharpshooter Alli Campbell, who was the first of the ND 2020 commits. Interestingy, she became very tight with Post/Forward Nat Marshall, who came aboard last spring.

Interestingly, ND didn't get a point guard out of that, considering both Paige Bueckers and Caitlin Clark were there. PB was visited by Archangel Geno of St. Storrs so often, she took the early ticket to hoops heaven.
And Clark, who seemed like a good fix tempermentally for both ND and Muffet McGraw, decided "meh, not so much" and decided to stay in Iowa (stay tuned).

---2020, Oregon version: Coach Graves did pretty well when she showed up dressed up as an ND football usher in garrish yellow coats and dropped business cards to Kylee Watson and Sydney Parrish, both of whom went Ducky. In actuality, the Irish and Parrish went a little "meh" on each other. Parrish was a bit of a tweener (guard? wing?) and ND took Campbell at the guard and a very familiar name at wing, Maddy Westbeld. Watson was up and down on the rankings at the time and seemed to be a good match for the Irish. I wonder if Graves and co. just went harder or if Watson wanted the left coast?

---2021: The jury is still out on Matyson Wilkie...stay with a Wisconsin school or head to one of the Dakotas?

As for that other kid, Azzi Fudd, well, both boards could sell Dickens-length series on the amount written about her, the relationships she has with Paige and/or Sam, her trips (or not) to UConn or South Bend, Brenda lurking at the edges and "Where's Jeff" sightings.
Stay tuned.

As for "Niele the closer":
- Early career notable: Skylar Diggins. Niele wasn't formally in charge of ND recruiting then (Jonathan Tsipis was), but her assignment was to reach for -- and get a signature from -- Sky.
- Some very good classes: My favorite was 2014, which brought in Arike Ogunbowale, Ali Patberg and Marina Mabrey. All three have had fine NCAA careers. Wish Patberg had stayed, but everyone is still a fan. And Arike-Mabrey, for better or for worse (for anti-Domers) became the STP of ND's high-octane offense.
--- And some misses: The triple whiff on Megan W.-Evina-Maya Dodson was one-two-three strikes you're out. And UConn wasn't the only school that had their face hit the dirt in pursuit of Aliyah Boston: ND let several other posts with some degree of mutual interest end up elsewhere in a singular, fated pursuit.
- Late Assitant Get: Was very impressed with her doggedness in going after Nat Marshall. Many flights into LaGuardia and drives to Christ-the-King and/or Forest Hills, where the Marshall's live. Stanford was a real option for the Marshalls. Good get.
- What has she done for us lately? My one set-up. As explained earlier, Niele was pursuing Miles before she left for the Grizzlies and really came back to help seal the deal or confirm the deal, depending on your theory of the day. In any case, she was a part of it, along with MM and Beth Cunningham. Also factor in the entire relationship with the Philly Belles.

Next? Irish could use a forward (in 2021, then really in 2022) and a create-your-own shot guard in 2021.
Hmmm. Back to Nielefest: wonder if Matyson knows another 2021 prospect?

 

[uconnfan68]

I don't know if this was mentioned yet or not but Ivey gave a definite non-answer when local media asked if she would retain her the current assistant coaches.

Basically said that she would worry about catching up on recruiting for a couple weeks before getting to the issue of her staff but that she was "looking forward to building" her staff.

I can't imagine her terminating any of the assistants but it sounds like it's not 100% certain whether Cunningham and Owens are coming back (I can't imagine Mabrey1 voluntarily going anywhere).

I’ll take that as a “yes” to cleaning house.

 

[Dillon77]

I don't know if this was mentioned yet or not but Ivey gave a definite non-answer when local media asked if she would retain her the current assistant coaches.

Basically said that she would worry about catching up on recruiting for a couple weeks before getting to the issue of her staff but that she was "looking forward to building" her staff.

I can't imagine her terminating any of the assistants but it sounds like it's not 100% certain whether Cunningham and Owens are coming back (I can't imagine Mabrey1 voluntarily going anywhere).

Without a vote of confidence, ND assistants would be well served to consider other options.

I wrote about this over on "the Bench," but I was a tad surprised at that answer:

- ND AD Jack Swarbrick has said this process this has been discussed for a few years and got kicked into play for a month. You'd think that determing whom your staff is -- or at least determining who won't be -- would be addressed, particularly since Post Coach Carol Owens and Wings Coach/Irish great Beth Morgan Cunningham have been with Muffet for a very long time. As Orangutan alluded, Mabrey1 will have to be dragged out there (MM and Niele laughed that they had Mike leading practices as a senior)...however, I think Michaela (Mike) is a solid, smart junior coach who can relate well to team members and prospects and would be worth keeping for at least one year to see how it works out between them.

- Still Niele should be accorded the opportunity to determine whom she wants on her staff going forward.
hat said, I'd hope -- and I'm sure the returning team -- would like to see some members back.

- But, if you need extra time, get the public answer out in a succinct manner: "I've loved working with and/or coaching Carole, Beth and Michaela over the years and we'll have discussions on what works going forward." However, don't say they take second priority after recruiting. Yikes! I don't think she meant it to sound as caustic as I took it, but chalk this up to "lessons learned" on the job. Niele's too smart (and nice) to not learn from even that slip up.

- Per HopJim's post, if Niele is not considering any/all of them, I think it would be good to advise much sooner rather than later: given the circmstances, it's not a usual job market out there. I hope Swarbrick keeps that in mind.

Stay tuned.