More fuel to the fire (re: Griner)

[UcMiami]

BYU has kicked players off football and basketball teams for drinking alcohol and having sex. The school has a code of conduct they take seriously. Some have even been expelled for having sex.

Makes me wonder what they will do with Mulkey for recruiting Griner.

According to an interesting article posted elsewhere re BYU they jave some serious issues about how they administer their honor code discipline.
http://deadspin.com/5791461/the-truth-about-race-religion-and-the-honor-code-at-byu
I find that quite troubling and not something to proud of.

 

[UcMiami]

Do you think all this DRAMA is a good way to promote one self and their career?

How awful could it have been for the four years she endured Kim Mulkey? Victim only goes so far 'til it becomes pathetic.

I am replying to your post specifically but there are a number of posts that question her 'sticking it out' for 4 years in one way or another. My response is ...
I guess you have never been close to or around a codependent or abused spouse. It can take years/decades for someone to break free and some only achieve it in death. BG would appear to be a prime candidate from an emotional and outside support perspective to suffer from at least some of the characteristics of 'codependency'. It is not pretty, certainly not heroic, but also not 'pathetic.'

 

[pinotbear]

I am not one to always assume that if person #1 holds position "A", and if person #2 holds position "B", then the truth must lie halfway in between. There is truth, and there is right & wrong, and sometimes one person's position is accurate and anothers' position is horse manure.

Having said that, I do think that the most accurate assessment of the whole BG/Kim/Baylor brou-ha-ha likely lies somewhere in between the viewpoint that BG was completely taken advantage of/borderline abused and the viewpoint that BG/mom & dad knew damn well what they were getting into, and could have ended it anytime they wanted.

I do not doubt that BG had a very uncomfortable adolescence, and that Baylor preferred that her sexuality be a non-issue. I do not doubt that Baylor took as much advantage as they could have of BG's basketball ability (whether or not KM developed it to its optimal potential is a whole 'nother series of threads.)

But, based on BG's actions on the court, tweeting at halftime, etc., I don't think BG was the easiest player to deal with from a coaching standpoint either. The teens and early twenties are a rebellious/defiant/experimental age for almost everyone - add in BG's life experience where physical intimidation was her most useful tool, and that her sexuality/size/appearance led her to be more defensive/combative within her family and without, well...KM & Baylor weren't exactly dealing with the stereotype "coach's kid" who is eminently coachable and almost instinctive about the game and teamwork.

And, let's not forget all the bagggage that comes with being the #1 high school prospect in the country, where almost nobody tells you anything but how good you are and how badly schools want you. That swells heads - player's, family, and friends. Then, add in the DFW coaching aspect..well, let's just say that nobody got completely screwed in BG's going to Baylor. Everybody got something - BG, KM, Baylor, the AAU coach, BG's folks - out of the deal.

Basicly, I think that nobody can claim too much of the moral high ground in this one - everyone involved accepted some degree of comprimise (sp?) to get something they wanted.

 

[meyers7]

Do you think all this DRAMA is a good way to promote one self and their career?

How awful could it have been for the four years she endured Kim Mulkey? Victim only goes so far 'til it becomes pathetic.

Yea it's not there yet, but I agree it could get there.

 

[easttexastrash]

then we would've never had you on the BY gloating about Baylor for the whole 12'-13' season

Hey, but I stayed around and took my lumps...

 

[meyers7]

I find it very believable that they could be that ignorant, especially considering the timeline. Griner committed to Baylor as a sophomore. Her father did not accept her as a lesbian until after she began attending Baylor. Why would he research Baylor's policies on homosexuality to any great degree? And I wouldn't expect them to have general knowledge about Baylor policies. In their perception Baylor was probably primarily a Texas school that played DI sports in the Big 12, not a religious institution.

If think her father's comments are reflective of a lot of families going through the recruiting process who are making decisions about colleges based on various limited information. These parents and family members never went to college themselves so they have nothing in their own experience to draw from. In many cases haven't traveled very far in their lives and have a more limited knowledge base from which to draw on. At least at this point the family members still don't have computers and internet access sitting at home to research. They have what the college coaches are telling them, what their high school and AAU coaches tell them, what some brochures tell them, and maybe a dog and pony show of a campus visit.

Ok probably more ignorant than stupid, same result though.

 

[easttexastrash]

I think a good point was made. BG's family was not too interested in talking about being gay so they buried their heads in the sand. However, if BG asked Mulkey if being gay was going to be an issue that Mulkey had an obligation to discuss the Code of Coundcut right then and there. There was no grey area for Mulkey and BG trusted that this would not be an issue.

And let's be clear, the issue started when BG sent a tweet to her girlfriend and was asked to delete the tweet. It wasn't as if she was asking to call a press conference to announce that she was gay, she sent a tweet. To say that she wanted to discuss her sexuality makes it sound like she was going to go into a press conference and talk about specific sexual acts and positions she enjoyed.

If a straight player sent a tweet to her boyfriend would she be discussing her "sexuality" by merely send a tweet?

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

For me, the buck stops with University Professors who are responsible for setting the tone and rule regarding University values...surely the isolation of any minority should be front and center for such attention...if not, the buildings of the place are a prison, not a safe harbor of education and acceptance. I can assure you that literally hundreds, indeed thousands, of Profs in our University systems proudly agree with me on this.

The situation at Baylor goes far beyond coaches and players.

 

[meyers7]

well, let's just say that nobody got completely screwed in BG's going to Baylor. Everybody got something - BG, KM, Baylor, the AAU coach, BG's folks - out of the deal.

Basicly, I think that nobody can claim too much of the moral high ground in this one - everyone involved accepted some degree of comprimise (sp?) to get something they wanted.

Very well put.

 

[CL82]

One person/booster is not a resolution of animus in a broader community context. I am, also, not going on a single article but the accumulation of comments and material over the past three weeks.

Ice, I've only read a couple of articles, so maybe I'm not privy to the incidents that you are referencing. From what I've seen, her teammates knew and accepted her sexuality, her coaches knew and accepted it, the boosters knew and accepted it. What else happened?

I fully agree that if Brittney asked if this was an issue, was told no not at all, and then was harassed about it, then there's an big issue here. I just haven't seen anything that indicates that that actually happened.

 

[CL82]

I think a good point was made. BG's family was not too interested in talking about being gay so they buried their heads in the sand. However, if BG asked Mulkey if being gay was going to be an issue that Mulkey had an obligation to discuss the Code of Coundcut right then and there. There was no grey area for Mulkey and BG trusted that this would not be an issue.

And let's be clear, the issue started when BG sent a tweet to her girlfriend and was asked to delete the tweet. It wasn't as if she was asking to call a press conference to announce that she was gay, she sent a tweet. To say that she wanted to discuss her sexuality makes it sound like she was going to go into a press conference and talk about specific sexual acts and positions she enjoyed.

If a straight player sent a tweet to her boyfriend would she be discussing her "sexuality" by merely send a tweet?

Depends on the content doesn't it? I believe UConn has social media rules, probably to avoid this kind of issue.

 

[reno tony]

According to an interesting article posted elsewhere re BYU they jave some serious issues about how they administer their honor code discipline.
http://deadspin.com/5791461/the-truth-about-race-religion-and-the-honor-code-at-byu
I find that quite troubling and not something to proud of.

BYU like other religion based schools have some difficult issues to deal with concerning their staff and students actions. Where they draw the line is a tough decision I'm glad I don't have to make. The Deadspin article, like so many of theirs, was all about racism and less about the honor code. It is unfortunate that the article wasn't by MSNNews or some less race oriented on-line magazine. When I read their articles, it seems to dull the effect because everything is about the white racists. It is unfortunate because when they do have a legitimate point, it blends in with all the other cry-wolf stories and carries less weight than it should. Thanks for the article, it did prompt me to read about five others.

 

[DobbsRover2]

The story is a swirl of many issues involving to a certain extent hypocrisy and accommodation as players, family and school staff all try to work their way through a tough situation bounded by old strictures and new realities.

After getting through some initial feelings of outrage, I still think that the Griner\Baylor story is still one of progress and at least some hope. Changes do not happen overnight (and in this case the far right is very glad of that), but over time there appears to be some good movement toward more openness and communication, even if part of that has to happen post graduation for the players. Battling through hidebound beliefs and old prejudices takes a lot of battles and small victories to get to a fairer and more just society. Long ago a very conservative Baylor developed a stringent set of moral codes for its students that puts homosexuality on the same basis as sex abuse and incest (and unless you are a moral twit please don't feed the crap about that it's okay to be gay unless you act gay), and the university is not going to immediately ditch that code though it appears to be taking very gradual steps to open up and distance itself a bit from the strictures. Some would hope for far faster changes by Baylor, but in the meantime the Bear's somewhat begrudgingly donning the helm as "America's new lesbian school for women's BB players" is a step in the right direction.

 

[RS9999X]

Griner was abused at Baylor?

How Pathetic.

When Griner says she was abused I'll believe it. I can imagine the ESPN article if one of you liking or claiming she was abused wrote it. BG's entire 4 years turned to torment and abuse and trauma. Griner's on court aggression is part of that trauma and entirely excusable, etc.

Yes she should sue for reparations and distress and trauma. Why don't some of you file a lawsuit on her behalf. Obviously the poor tormented loser is too dumb to do it on her own behalf.

For shame. Griner was able to handle her "tragic sexuality" like an adult. That's the real lesson here.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Griner was abused at Baylor?

For shame. Griner was able to handle her "tragic sexuality" like an adult. That's the real lesson here.

Wow, this appears to be your own reference to Griner's situation since it does not appear in any story, and the term is used more in relation to vampires or suicide cases.

That she was able to handle like an adult her gay life style under some pressure at Baylor is certainly something to congratulate her for, even if it involved a certain amount of "keeping things under cover" and playing along with hypocritical conduct and antiquated rules. What is not commendable is to have moral shills labeling gay conduct as "tragic" on sports forums, though I have to say the bile does gets spewed pretty frequently on them. If you don't approve of gay conduct, that's your choice, but tossing out the labels shows the void in your own soul.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I live with my void without being pathetic.

Ah yes, always the tough one. I'll call your deeply-held choices in life "tragic" and you're "pathetic" if you think there's anything wrong with that because I'm one of those proudly self-righteous voids that just knows best how slap on those public labels. Hey, if that works for you, that's all that matters, and there's a group with the initials W.B.C. that you might be interested in helping out at some demonstrations of those views.

 

[Waquoit]

Though I get the feeling that both Mulkey and Griner are pieces of work, I think this is mountian/molehill territory. My impression is that Mulkey's advice was wasn't so much asking Griner to live a lie as it was asking her to analyze the risk and return. Considering how well Griner's Baylor career turned out ( improvement and growth as a player, an NC, multiple FF's, #1 draft pick, nationwide recognition) I would say Mulkey was on the right track. Griner didn't need more on her plate in school. Now was the right time to come out publicly, when she has the time and freedom to deal with it. If she was that adament about coming out before, she could have just done so. Baylor wouldn't have done anything. It would have been another PR disaster for them.

 

[WestHartHusk]

I live with my void without being pathetic.

Re-read your posts in this thread, think about them for an hour, then come back and let us know if you still think you aren't pathetic.

 

[ThisJustIn]

I think there's plenty of sin in the United States -- hypocrisy, double standards, small mindedness, illogical thinking, denial of history and science. The list goes on.

I don't know how much BG "suffered" at Baylor a la Rene Portland hell. That being said, if Baylor folks really acted the way they believed, BG should not have been able to have a girlfriend. The mere existence of that relationship is evangelic. Her "sin" should have been throughly condemned. Except it wasn't in the interest of the University's growing sports program.

Baylor should also do a more careful reading of the Old Testament to see what else they're letting slide.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Without arguing the micro of Brittney and how she was treated and how the interplay went with the school and her coach, the overall issue is that a devoutly religious school had as its centerpiece athlete a person who wasn't in line with the school ethic, and the square peg was in the round hole..... no puns intended on either of those. It was not a relationship that was harmonious, but that was ignored because she could help the team in the win column.....

 

[ThisJustIn]

Keeping sexuality on the down low? Be serious. Business professionalism often requires suitable attire and sticking to the business at hand. No race, religion, or politics or office affairs or using the internet for . Teachers routinely get fired for working as bikini models etc.

RIGHT - there is no race or religion or politics or office affairs in professional business venues.

And name me the last man who was fired for working in a speedo?

Lordy, you DO live on the dark side of the moon.

 

[Zorro]

I mean...isn't Waco like THE most conservative place ever?

Damned close!

 

[CL82]

This thread has been interesting as the lack of specifics has become a canvas for posters to paint their own version of what happened. As the inevitable calling out of other posters has begun, it might be a good time to lock it.

 

[Zorro]

Hey, but I stayed around and took my lumps...

And did it with pretty good grace and humor, too. WElcome to Husky Nation. Gonna be a lot more fun over the next few years that "Got Mulk"!

 

[DobbsRover2]

Ah, yes, the old call for a lock-down plea. Before the arm is clicked shut, just wanted to pass along a link from the Kansas Scout forum on page 4 that has a thoughtful post by a Baylor frosh called Brischke that may add some more perspective about how to view Baylor and Waco. Does kind of sound like other schools out West, but with some strict guidelines that are kind of tucked in a closet but maybe to be used if some goes wild and open with their lifestyles. Again, the old don't ask and don't tell path

 

[RS9999X]

Don't proselytize or evangelize the sin. Its no deeper than that. Don't associate the university with the sin. Its a religious school. Religious schools accept sinners. They limit the opportunity to sin and forbid "selling the sin"

Its not deep at all.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Sadly, they also get to define what sin is...especially in others.

 

[Kait14]

Kate Fagan did an absolutely amazing job with this piece. I'm still baffled, as a gay woman, as to why she wouldn't transfer. If you're comfortable with who you are and you know who you are, why even endure all that BS when superior schools who recruited you don't care if you're gay?

 

[Bayareahusky]

The right thing to do would have been in 2009 (?) to say "Brittney, you are a great person, but I do not think you and Baylor are a good fit for each other"

 

[Kait14]

I think she said that it was no ones business. I would fully expect her to say the same if a heterosexual player was talking about her sexuality. I'm just not seeing it. They didn't try to change her. There was even private acceptance of it. They just suggested, not told her, that her sexuality didn't have to be in the public domain.

It always cracks me up when I see things like this. "You don't see heterosexual players talking about their sexuality." I was watching the softball super regionals on ESPN last weekend, and they would NOT stop showing a Nebraska player's fiance. That right there, is how female athletes' heterosexuality is dealt with. When a female athlete is walking down the street holding her boyfriend's/husband's hand, that is displaying their sexuality. So get out of here with that BS that it's nobody's business. It's paraded every day regardless of whether you realize it or not. And if you read the article, you'd see that it wasn't a suggestion. She wasn't allowed to at all. Baylor made her delete a tweet to an ex-girlfriend.