Mizzou - South Carolina

[j66kicker]

At the time there was quite a bit of discussion about the reasons behind VanDerveer's treatment of Lobo.

There sure was. And to this day I still always enjoy seeing Tara get beat, which I had the pleasure of doing in person in Tempe yesterday

 

[DefenseBB]

Let's get Tara out of the way, in the interest of fairness and clearing up foot notes. After getting trounced 87-60 by UConn in the 1995 Nat'l Semifinal Tara was classless enough a sore loser tom say "no way" UConn beats Tennessee. Dumb and classless.

Rocky/HuskyNan- if I may offer a diiferent perspective in varying memories of history:
On Rocky’s Tara retort-back in 1995 Tenn was UConn, the big bad juggernaut that lost a game to the upstart at the upstart. It had experience and the pre-eminent coach at the time so Tara, was not necessarily wrong in her perspective in that
1. She just lost to UConn and may have been slightly peeved;
2. As noted, Geno was/is rather brash to the establishment (which anyone trying to carve out their territory will irritate the aforementioned owners of the turf and at the time, Tara may have been more on Pats side as she was carving her own reputation (taking over the Olympics having got Pat’s blessing).
What do you think anyone said to MSU when they made it to the final four last year to play UConn? "Hey, go get em, you’ve got a real chance?" Or do you think the loser said"Hey congrats, now you will lose"...

On Lobo and the ‘96 Team- USA Hoop desperately wanted to capitalize on Lobo’s marketability to generate interest, which was sorely lacking and wanted Atlanta to showcase the sport and forced her onto the team like all the college players have been for “the next face”. Tara took the year off from Stanford to get the team ready with established pros who were better than our Ms. Lobo at the time. From a documentary I saw on that team, Rebecca came to camp out of shape, which considering what Tara gave up to coach the team, was highly irritating to her (and if really true, who could blame Tara). Think about last Olympics when Catchings was on the team but didn’t play. The Vol fans were livid, but she was a good teammate and they won the gold. Same as for Tara, she won the gold so who can really quibble how much Rebecca played? It’s 22 years now and Geno seems to have moved on and still plays Tara so if he has no problem, I have no problem.
While I have stated that I do think he and Pat mended their grievances, as evidenced in numerous actions by Geno, he still will not play Tenn in a series. Again, I am also ok with that perspective as well. We have moved on so my own suggestion is we also encourage any BYers with issues about Tara to move on. I mean we can be nice when we CRUSH them in games...

 

[vtcwbuff]

"USA Hoop desperately wanted to capitalize on Lobo’s marketability and forced her onto the team . . ."

Why would USA Basketball have to "force" Lobo onto the team? Aren't they the guys that pick the players?

Your comparison of Catchings in 2016 to Lobo in 1996 is just as ridiculous. In '96 Lobo was the next best thing in Women's bball while Catchings in 2016 was playing her swan song. Saying that Catchings "didn't play" is so wrong - she played in every game, averaging around 10 minutes.

I have never heard the comment that Lobo showed up for team USA "out of shape." Not saying that it couldn't have happened but it sounds as if that was something someone put out there to cover the real reason Lobo rode the bench.

 

[Woof 101]

If I had to narrow down a point of frustration -- and this is mine as much as Staley's -- it is that the officials allowed Missouri to play physical with USC's posts without whistling fouls and were quick on the whistle versus USC.

I don't really want Wilson to get special treatment and be immune from fouls, but if you are going to let the other team use physicality to negate her superiority as a player then it seems unfair to hold her to a higher standard on the other end.

However, I think physical play has been one way that teams have gotten to USC the last few years. Kentucky used to be able to do it and its no secret that is Missouri's calling card.

I give them credit for offsetting the talent differential and Cunningham is a good player. And it is on South Carolina not to lose its composure when you get played that way. But just my opinion, I think they let Missouri be too rough. I don't think that head butt on Wilson was entirely unintentional either. the girl just walked right through Wilson as part of their intimidation. This is the sort of thing they let the opponent do to the SEC POY and I think that is what was especially frustrating to Coach, who is not generally one to complain about officiating.

Anyway, I have no problems with Coach getting her team's back and perhaps the next times around that game will be called a little tighter on both ends.

No attack Gamecock, just a difference of opinion. Dawn comes off looking really not smart on this one. You say she does not normally complain about officials, my guess is you missed the fact she complained about the officials before the game was even played. Maybe they got word???
Then she goes on to say "a player of Wilson's caliber ought to get the benefit of the doubt. If you missed the earlier links.
Cunningham leads No. 15 Missouri to upset of No. 4 Gamecocks
We have to hope she will think about it before she texts or talks as our Olympic coach.

 

[j66kicker]

"USA Hoop desperately wanted to capitalize on Lobo’s marketability and forced her onto the team . . ."

Why would USA Basketball have to "force" Lobo onto the team? Aren't they the guys that pick the players?

Your comparison of Catchings in 2016 to Lobo in 1996 is just as ridiculous. In '96 Lobo was the next best thing in Women's bball while Catchings in 2016 was playing her swan song. Saying that Catchings "didn't play" is so wrong - she played in every game, averaging around 10 minutes.

I have never heard the comment that Lobo showed up for team USA "out of shape." Not saying that it couldn't have happened but it sounds as if that was something someone put out there to cover the real reason Lobo rode the bench.

Yes they are, and the committee put the NPOY on the team against Tara’s express wishes (this was way before Rebecca allegedly showed up “out of shape”). Unlike Pat, who agreed to play UConn - AT UConn - in ESPN’s inaugural MLK Day game that year ,“for the good of WBB,” Tara fought it - “for the good of Tara.”

I’m over it (well....), but I will never forget it. Regarding Geno, it is also insightful to remember that “vendetta” is an Italian word

 

[oldude]

Regarding Geno, it is also insightful to remember that “vendetta” is an Italian word

From the Latin "Vindicta" meaning vengeance.

 

[DefenseBB]

"USA Hoop desperately wanted to capitalize on Lobo’s marketability and forced her onto the team . . ."

Why would USA Basketball have to "force" Lobo onto the team? Aren't they the guys that pick the players?

Your comparison of Catchings in 2016 to Lobo in 1996 is just as ridiculous. In '96 Lobo was the next best thing in Women's bball while Catchings in 2016 was playing her swan song. Saying that Catchings "didn't play" is so wrong - she played in every game, averaging around 10 minutes.

I have never heard the comment that Lobo showed up for team USA "out of shape." Not saying that it couldn't have happened but it sounds as if that was something someone put out there to cover the real reason Lobo rode the bench.

Here's a link- 1995-96 USA Basketball Women's Senior National Team that will give you some perspective on who the real stars were. I stand by my comments on Lobo, at 22, not a seasoned enough player vs. the others but fresh off of a great college season (think Christian Laettner/Anthony Davis) with high market recognition vs. the better and more established players, was put on the team over some better players because she was well known. Yes, it's that simple and it happens. What I think most of this board knows, in 1996, she was not 1 of the 12 best and is why she also sort of road the bench. That's all I am saying. She did play as you noted and my rebuttal was to our HuskyNan who noted the BYers thought Rebecca should have played more (like the Vol fans with Catchings). That's my comparison, if it offends your sensibilities or my other UConn fans, I am sorry as my intent is to show a more objective perspective.

 

[ocoandasoc]

Acting? Wilson got head butted and came out of the game. You could see the redness on her nose in the telecast.

The Missouri player maybe didn't intend to head butt her, but you aren't going to convince me that she didn't deliberately walk through her. Really surprised there was no call there. Wilson left the game.

The Cunningham grab was appropriately officiated. I don't have a super big problem with it other than it was a foul. It wasn't a flagrant, but it was physical.

Those two plays are just illustrations of Missouri's intentional physicality. It's frustrating to see a team pull that on the team that you follow and I am sure more frustrating when it is the one you coach and you don't any help from officials.

But I'm not calling Missouri a plague on the game or anything. It's just a style of play you need to be able to handle if you want to win championships. Because some teams are going to play that way.

Watch the replay. It's still up on ESPN's web site. Porter and Wilson walked into each other. One of the replay angles shows that clearly. (Surprise, that's not the angle the SC media showed!) Porter's skull went into Wilson's teeth. Totally accidental. (And clarify for me how it could have been deliberate if Porter didn't intend to do it?) Get over it. Then review Wilson's five fouls and tell me which one was a bad call? BTW, in case you hadn't noticed, Wilson and her teammates play a physical game as well. Watch the SC fouls in the last 90 seconds of the game -- some are a lot rougher than required and could easily have been called intentional.

Dawn is a great coach, but she has a mouth like a sailor and is on the officials constantly. There are not that many officiating teams that are assigned to the big tv games, and Dawn has worn a bunch of them out. (And she knows it, which is why she tries to influence who gets assigned to her games.) So, yeah, these refs probably come in with a bit of a short fuse -- but whose fault is that? When she sat motionless on the bench after Wilson's fifth foul she was simply showing up the refs. They had had enough at that point, and made the exceedingly rare call of a technical for failure to substitute in a timely manner. She was very surprised that her little stunt back-fired. I thought it was overkill, myself. But they were sending her a message. Maybe she should listen.

The fouls were actually even until the last two minutes when SC started fouling on every play to try and overcome the double digit Mizzou lead. And more Missouri players fouled out than SC players. Sure, there were missed calls and poor calls along the way. But I think they broke about even.

I remember when Louisville upset Baylor by employing a sagging triple-team on Griner all the Baylor fans were upset and Mulkey wound up getting fined after a review of the game didn't bear out her charges of bad officiating. It seems whenever David beats Goliath someone is there to say "No fair, he used a sling!"

Yes, SC is the reigning National Champion. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee, but it won't -- and it shouldn't -- get your coach or star player preferential treatment by the refs.

 

[FanFromMaine]

I too just had a chance to watch the SC-Mizzou replay. Mizzou seemed to play better and SC seemed short-handed.

I'm not a big Dawn Staley fan but she doesn't deserve the vitriol expressed above. She's stilling relatively young and learning. I remember an NCAA playoff game in 2013 where a Maryland player lowered the boom on Kelly Faris just before the half; no foul was called. The announcers and the people in the stands were howling that Geno get a technical to "protect" his players. He did but at the beginning of the second half he said he regretted doing so as it resulted in a swing of 6 points. I know he has CD clinging to him but I can't remember another technical since then.

 

[SVCBeercats]

I have great respect for former and current members of our armed forces. I don’t know how my comments say otherwise. However, MSGT shouldn’t get a pass any more than A’ja Wilson should.

You said and asked:

• It's not FIBA.
• Why are you taking it so personally?

As a response I said: Master Sargent. As a Master Sargent he expected and received respect (at least to his face ). I also said respect authority. Per his military experience he probably expects authority figures to receive respect. On the court during a game the referees are authority figures ergo his displeasure and taking it personal. I should have been more explicit for you.

 

[Wbbfan1]

This is Dawn's 18th Year Coaching, sorry that's not young from a coaching perspective. Dawn in her press conference was playing a Victim Card, Woe is South Carolina my Players aren't treated properly and they need me to protect them. That especially applies to her NPOY Candidate.

I too just had a chance to watch the SC-Mizzou replay. Mizzou seemed to play better and SC seemed short-handed.

I'm not a big Dawn Staley fan but she doesn't deserve the vitriol expressed above. She's stilling relatively young and learning. I remember an NCAA playoff game in 2013 where a Maryland player lowered the boom on Kelly Faris just before the half; no foul was called. The announcers and the people in the stands were howling that Geno get a technical to "protect" his players. He did but at the beginning of the second half he said he regretted doing so as it resulted in a swing of 6 points. I know he has CD clinging to him but I can't remember another technical since then.

 

[HuskyNan]

Finally found the link to this article.

For Auriemma, It's Foul Trouble

 

[MSGRET]

It is 15 seconds, and they changed it a couple years ago, but only from 20 seconds to 15.

I was looking it up, because I thought it had been a minute relatively recently, but apparently not.

It looked like the refs gave her more than 15 seconds. Maybe it's the men's game that is a minute.

 

[cabbie191]

View attachment 27604
Now this is how one should make an exit!

I've always thought it was a good thing that Kim hurls her jackets and not her shoes. They could be lethal!

I can't remember the last time she had a temper tantrum like this. Maybe she's mellowed alongside Geno?

 

[mbr33ct]

I have already marked my calendar for the "Thrill-a in Columbia" rematch. Be there SUNDAY-SUNDAY-SUNDAY, January 28th, 6:00pm on ESPN2

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Watch the replay. It's still up on ESPN's web site. Porter and Wilson walked into each other. One of the replay angles shows that clearly. (Surprise, that's not the angle the SC media showed!) Porter's skull went into Wilson's teeth. Totally accidental. (And clarify for me how it could have been deliberate if Porter didn't intend to do it?) Get over it. Then review Wilson's five fouls and tell me which one was a bad call? BTW, in case you hadn't noticed, Wilson and her teammates play a physical game as well. Watch the SC fouls in the last 90 seconds of the game -- some are a lot rougher than required and could easily have been called intentional.

Dawn is a great coach, but she has a mouth like a sailor and is on the officials constantly. There are not that many officiating teams that are assigned to the big tv games, and Dawn has worn a bunch of them out. (And she knows it, which is why she tries to influence who gets assigned to her games.) So, yeah, these refs probably come in with a bit of a short fuse -- but whose fault is that? When she sat motionless on the bench after Wilson's fifth foul she was simply showing up the refs. They had had enough at that point, and made the exceedingly rare call of a technical for failure to substitute in a timely manner. She was very surprised that her little stunt back-fired. I thought it was overkill, myself. But they were sending her a message. Maybe she should listen.

The fouls were actually even until the last two minutes when SC started fouling on every play to try and overcome the double digit Mizzou lead. And more Missouri players fouled out than SC players. Sure, there were missed calls and poor calls along the way. But I think they broke about even.

I remember when Louisville upset Baylor by employing a sagging triple-team on Griner all the Baylor fans were upset and Mulkey wound up getting fined after a review of the game didn't bear out her charges of bad officiating. It seems whenever David beats Goliath someone is there to say "No fair, he used a sling!"

Yes, SC is the reigning National Champion. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee, but it won't -- and it shouldn't -- get your coach or star player preferential treatment by the refs.

South Carolina is the reigning national champion and that means we are the reigning national champion. Upsetting, I know, but true.

It has nothing to do with anything I was talking about. This team is the champion of nothing.

I don't have a problem with Missouri playing physically. I don't have a problem with Dawn complaining that Wilson fouled out for the second time in two years against the same physical bunch of Missouri players. I don't have a problem with her making a show for her players and making moves to affect future games. Coaches do that sometimes.

Missouri obviously outplayed USC. I'm disappointed that USC response to physicality was to lose composure and basically let Missouri dictate the tone of the game. I think USC backed down and that's disappointing.

I disagree with your interpretation of the collision. I think it was intentional. Not the head butt necessarily, but the collision. She was sending the message that she wasn't going to cede Wilson any space.

To my knowledge that's Staley's first ejection. I'm unaware of her particularly questioning officiating before. She definitely will question a lack of a respect or a characterization that she doesn't like, but I don't recall her being as outspoken about officiating before.

Wilson doesn't foul out much. It was an extraordinary situation all around.

Chalk it up as one loss in a basketball season and move on. Hopefully you respond better at home vs Missouri in the future.

 

[winlots]

Have you ever gone to Bruno's and have their Pizza?

MSG: MANY a time - the best. Was a regular there on Sunday nights; they didn't even have to ask what I wanted. Mushroom. Way back in my day, there was a young fella named Whitey tossing crusts-to-be in the front window of the place.

What brought you there and when???

 

[MSGRET]

MSG: MANY a time - the best. Was a regular there on Sunday nights; they didn't even have to ask what I wanted. Mushroom. Way back in my day, there was a young fella named Whitey tossing crusts-to-be in the front window of the place.

What brought you there and when???

My mom used to waitress there and at Orlando's across from the Fieldhouse. I also used to bus tables and eventually work the kitchen when I was growing up. Of course this is when it was the old Bruno's Swiss Inn at State St and State Road 43. I remember Whitey, he started out as a dishwasher and worked his way to the front line. Never did learn how to toss the pizza, always went through with my fist. The busiest day of the year was the Purdue - ND football game, we would have a line out the door waiting for up to 2 hours to get in and eat. Bruno Sr. passed away some years back just after they moved to the levee and Bruno Jr and Orlando own it now. I have gone there every time I go back. My favorite pizza was sausage, onion, and anchovies, and both still remember that.