Maya, DT, Sue, Tina, et al and regret! | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Maya, DT, Sue, Tina, et al and regret!

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malevocalist# said:
Theories are like clouds without water. Useless.

Facts are indisputable. So dispute on. I'm done.
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Right, facts like what the four other players produced while playing with D and Maya. Maya's four produced about 4 more ppg (40 vs 44), about the same rpg (about 21 rpg), and about 4 more apg (7.5 vs. 11.5). So, you know, roughly the same.
 
malevocalist# said:
Some people act as if Barbara Turner and Ann Strother were not good players. Mind you one was 5 star and the other a 4 star. And Moore and other girl were great rebounders. So D also had a good supporting cast as well.
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The operative word being GOOD. Not first team All Americans. Big difference.
 
Deadrody said:
The operative word being GOOD. Not first team All Americans. Big difference.
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No one was a first-team All-American when playing with Maya, either.
 
Wally East said:
Next four players for '03 after DT:
Jessica Moore, redshirt Soph, Parade High School All-American
Ann Strother, Fr, Naismith HS POY
Barbara Turner, Fr. WBCA HS All-American
Ashley Battle, Soph, WBCA HS All-American

Next four players for '11 Maya
Tiffany Hayes, Jr, Parade and WBCA HS All-American
Bria Hartley, Fr, Parade and WBCA HS All-American
Stefanie Dolson, Fr, McDonald's and Parade HS All-American
Kelly Faris, So, McDonald's HS All-American

Both groups were made up of four HS All-Americans (I'm sure I have missed some players making different AA teams). The only difference in experience is that Jessica Moore sat on the bench for a year as a redshirt but practiced with Swin, Tamika, and Ashja her first year at UConn.

Production:

'03 next four:
39.0 ppg, 21.7 rpg, 7.5 apg

'11 next four:
44.1 ppg, 21.0 rpg, 11.9 apg

A bit of difference in production but not much (except for assists, which kind of makes sense).

I think we can put to rest any idea that D played with a bunch of toddlers and kittens while Maya played with the Lebron, Jordan, Bird, and Magic at their peaks :)
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You know you're making the point for the other side, right ? Which of those players won a title with that surrounding cast (not just once, but twice) and which one did not ?
 
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Wally East said:
No one was a first-team All-American when playing with Maya, either.
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Yes, and they didn't win a title, either. I'm not even sure how Maya's group is even part of this discussion. Diana did something - TWICE - that no other player at UConn has done.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that you can't pick either Diana or Stewie as #1 vs. #2. Stewie won 4, but with multiple other first team all americans on the team. Diana had no such luck and carried her teams to 2 unexpected titles. I would have put Diana on top, but Stewie carried her team as a freshman in the final four and Diana was a major factor in the loss to ND as a freshman.
 
Deadrody said:
You know you're making the point for the other side, right ? Which of those players won a title with that surrounding cast (not just once, but twice) and which one did not ?
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It has nothing to do with "sides." Just putting up the facts and trying to correct the impression that people have that D won with four people who were barely awake let alone able to contribute.

As for Stewie vs. D? That's no contest.
 
Deadrody said:
Yes, and they didn't win a title, either. I'm not even sure how Maya's group is even part of this discussion. Diana did something - TWICE - that no other player at UConn has done.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that you can't pick either Diana or Stewie as #1 vs. #2. Stewie won 4, but with multiple other first team all americans on the team. Diana had no such luck and carried her teams to 2 unexpected titles. I would have put Diana on top, but Stewie carried her team as a freshman in the final four and Diana was a major factor in the loss to ND as a freshman.
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Doesn't matter to me what D did anymore and yet it does because that record has been shattered by Stewie, Mo, Tuck and the rest of their supporting players.

Her record had been shattered. You can let it go now. You all can.

I respect 100% what D did. And Maya.

Sue had a better class than the Stewie....Thus adding D. That class to me should have win 5 in a row.

But why even debate to stroke a few egos here. They were all part of one great family. They love each other. They respect each other. Much as I can say for some fans.
 
CocoHusky said:
Pure Urban legend! Skylar did not own UCONN in her senior year. To Skylar's credit she beat UCONN three times by getting to the foul line and making enough plays to win
In those 4 games against UCONN Skylar shot miserably! Going 4:15, 11:31, 5:15, 3:15 Mostly because Kelly Faris was right there in her grill!
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Ok, Skylar averaged 25 pts against us in ND's final 4 victories. Who was guarding her then?
 
SHAHusky said:
No, Moriah did not. Kelly did. Moriah was a freshmen then and was not yet developed into the point guard we know now and love. You made one point and are now making other points. Coco, i'm on your side. Moriah is a great player, but she had a little impact in the Notre Dame semi final in 2013. Kelly Faris shut down Skylar Diggins in 2013. Moriah was called for two fouls that she committed on Diggins, and helped Diggins more than shut her down.
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I only watched the first half, so far. Mo played 7 minutes. She guarded SD. Kelis Fisher guarded KM. In those 7 minutes, SD did not score or have an assist. I remember one play, after MJ went out, where Kelis Fisher was guarding SD. SD shook Kelis Fisher, made an easy pass under the basket for an assist. SD was totally off her game that first half.
I will watch the second half.
 
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Phillyconn said:
Ok, Skylar averaged 25 pts against us in ND's final 4 victories. Who was guarding her then?
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Here you go again! Skylar score 28 and 19 points in two victories against UCONN in loses @FF. That would be 23.5 NOT the 25 you are claiming. In those FF she was defended by a combination of Kelly Faris , Bria Hartley & Tiffany Hayes, Caroline Doty & Lorin Dixon. Again you keep straying away from the main disagreement. Must I do all your fact checking for you?
 
Phillyconn said:
I only watched the first half, so far. Mo played 7 minutes. She guarded SD. Kelis Fisher guarded KM. In those 7 minutes, SD did not score or have an assist. I remember one play, after MJ went out, where Kelis Fisher was guarding SD. SD shook Kelis Fisher, made an easy pass under the basket for an assist. SD was totally off her game that first half.
I will watch the second half.
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Good Lordy!
15:14 SUB IN : Jefferson, Moriah
ASSIST by DIGGINS, Skylar 08:22
07:51 SUB OUT: Jefferson, Moriah
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2012-2013/040713.html#GAME.PLY
 
CocoHusky said:
Here you go again! Skylar score 28 and 19 points in two victories against UCONN in loses @FF. That would be 23.5 NOT the 25 you are claiming. In those FF she was defended by a combination of Kelly Faris , Bria Hartley & Tiffany Hayes, Caroline Doty & Lorin Dixon. Again you keep straying away from the main disagreement. Must I do all your fact checking for you?
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It was 23.5, I thought it said 25, but close enough! A mere 1.5 doesn't make that big of a difference. Why all the combinations? Should have been just Kelis Fisher, right? MJ, needs no help.
 
Phillyconn said:
It was 23.5, I thought it said 25, but close enough! A mere 1.5 doesn't make that big of a difference. Why all the combinations? Should have been just Kelis Fisher, right? MJ, needs no help.
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You are killing me and not Reppin Philly very well.
In those FF games Skylar and Kelly were Sophomores and Juniors. Although they were both starters neither was THE WOMAN! Novasel & Mallory of ND drew much concern as did someone else hopefully you
have heard off-Maya Moore?
 
CocoHusky said:
You are killing me and not Reppin Philly very well.
In those FF games Skylar and Kelly were Sophomores and Juniors. Although they were both starters neither was THE WOMAN! Novasel & Mallory of ND drew much concern as did someone else hopefully you
have heard off-Maya Moore?
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Skylar and Kelly as Sophomores and Juniors were damn good players, so, I don't see your point. I think scoring 28 points in the FF, as a SOPHOMORE, means you ARE THE woman. See BS in video replay you so graciously posted. Kelis Fisher, played a much better game than MJ but MJ's defense on SD was better, regardless of the amount of minutes. Kelly couldn't stop SD from getting by her. MJ's man to man defense, on SD, in this game was better, imho. Kelis Fisher played a much better game. She blocked shots, rebounded the ball, got steals and was totally disruptive, OK. Leave the reppin to the children. Besides, I watch all major sports, except the NBA and MLB, unless Philly is in the playoffs. Which is rare these days. Plus, until now I've spent a lot of time out of the country. Now that I am retired, from one of my jobs, I'll spend more time watching UCONN games, I will even try to attend a few.
 
Phillyconn said:
Stewie had the ultimate supporting cast. Without Mo and Tuck, we don't win 4.
I remember Mo's defense of Diggins in the tournament, took her completely out of the game. Mo also put the clamps on Jewel, when it counted. Morgan, with her steady play, was invaluable to our success. Stewie is the Greatest but she also had the GREATEST supporting cast in NCAA history.
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Ding - Ding - Ding - Ding!!! Bingo! you hit the nail on the head. As great as Stewie is, she could not have done it alone. Stewie had not 1, but 2 All-Americans backing her play.

That's why Their USA team got beat last summer. The other girls on the team deferred to Mo and her, but they couldn't pull it off. All of the greats down through the years had a Robin/Tonto: Michael had Scottie, Magic had Kareem, Russell had K.C. Jones and Sam Jones, Bird had Robert Parish and Kevin McHale and Kobi had Shaq, or Shaq had Kobi depending on which one of them is talking. In her 4 years at UConn, as great as she was, I never saw Stewie pass to herself.
 
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Carnac said:
Ding - Ding - Ding - Ding!!! Bingo! you hit the nail on the head. As great as Stewie is, she could not have done it alone. Stewie had not 1, but 2 All-Americans backing her play.

That's why Their USA team got beat last summer. The other girls on the team deferred to Mo and her, but they couldn't pull it off. All of the greats down through the years had a Robin/Tonto: Michael had Scottie, Magic had Kareem, Russell had K.C. Jones and Sam Jones, Bird had Robert Parish and Kevin McHale and Kobi had Shaq, or Shaq had Kobi depending on which one of them is talking. In her 4 years at UConn, as great as she was, I never saw Stewie pass to herself.
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Stewie, MJ and MT are the greatest trio in NCAA history, throw in KLS and KN and you have the greatest team of all time!
 
malevocalist# said:
Some people act as if Barbara Turner and Ann Strother were not good players. Mind you one was 5 star and the other a 4 star. And Moore and other girl were great rebounders. So D also had a good supporting cast as well. Greater than Maya had in her senior year.

Please get it right and stop belittling the others or the players who were just considered role models with D. They were better than many are alleging.

Ann S. was a great sharp shooter from the 3. Jessica Moore bang the boards like a beast. And the rest Etc. And that's all DT needed. She did the rest. But she didn't do it alone.

Maya had 5 freahmans. Hayes was lost in space.

Stewie came in with great players...Good for her because winning 4 in a row took just that.
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Weren't Strother, Barb Turner and Jessica Moore mostly Freshmen and Sophomores? When D led them to two championships? I still say those two years were one of the most remarkable feats in history. You normally need at least two superstars to win a championship, and at minimum a veteran team with a mega star. And I also think Maya, faced the toughest task, with freshmen /soph p Gd and post. Steph wasn't close to being Steph yet. No depth and Lorin Dixon off the bench as our only option. Maya had to defend the paint on defense when Steph was in foul trouble or needed rest during games. Tif did comme and go in spurts. And it's tougher for Maya as a Non guard, to control and guarantee a win on both ends of the court. Especially on offense with out the ball in her hands. She wasn't the best at totally creating her own shot all the time either. But her talent and determination and work ethic could not be out done. Stewie just has even more physical gifts than Maya- size length, wingspan. She Really does totally dominate on both ends of the court . Calm & cool in the biggest situations- starting w freshmen year NCAA Tmt. But let's face it, she walked into a juggernaut of a team that just needed her to improve and mature by the end of her freshmen year. No one had the full four years of all the pieces of a great team each year- more than this graduating class. That doesn't diminish their accomplishments- just a fact. They certainly made the most of it!!!
 
Geno-ista - Jessica came in with Diana, but red-shirted one year (true red-shirt, no injury or illness.) Barb (7 starts), Ann, Willnett, and Nicole were all freshman in 2003 but only Nicole and Ann started, and Nicole tore her ACL in the tenth game, and was replaced by Maria another classmate of DTs. The other starter spot went between Ashley Battle, another player who arrived for the 2000-01 season, but was injured in the seventh game that year (shoulder/arm I believe) and red-shirted, and Morgan Valley yet another classmate of DTs.

DT's 2000 recruiting class was Diana (37), Jessica (38), Maria (29), Morgan (18), and Ashley (13) - 2003 starts in () as third year players in the program - two of whom were red-shirts and graduated in 2005 not 2004 - there were no seniors as the 2000 recruit Kennitra Johnson had transferred out. It was an academic junior dominated team with a strong freshman class and two sophomores (Ashley Valley and Stacey Marron a walk on.) And of course the following year it was 4th year players and sophomores.

We all talk about TASSK and the Moriah/Morgan/Stewart classes as being the 'greatest' recruiting classes in Uconn history, but maybe we should also recognize that 2000 recruiting class of 5 as pretty darned special! Combined they won 15 NCs with seven starts in NC games. And Moore (10) and Battle (6) had pretty long WNBA careers to complement DT's - Morgan's career was derailed with injuries and she is now coaching, and Maria was a great college PG who got training camp looks in the WNBA but professionally could not hide her physical limitations - we could nickname it JAMMD
 
Geno-ista said:
Weren't Strother, Barb Turner and Jessica Moore mostly Freshmen and Sophomores? When D led them to two championships? I still say those two years were one of the most remarkable feats in history. You normally need at least two superstars to win a championship, and at minimum a veteran team with a mega star. And I also think Maya, faced the toughest task, with freshmen /soph p Gd and post. Steph wasn't close to being Steph yet. No depth and Lorin Dixon off the bench as our only option. Maya had to defend the paint on defense when Steph was in foul trouble or needed rest during games. Tif did comme and go in spurts. And it's tougher for Maya as a Non guard, to control and guarantee a win on both ends of the court. Especially on offense with out the ball in her hands. She wasn't the best at totally creating her own shot all the time either. But her talent and determination and work ethic could not be out done. Stewie just has even more physical gifts than Maya- size length, wingspan. She Really does totally dominate on both ends of the court . Calm & cool in the biggest situations- starting w freshmen year NCAA Tmt. But let's face it, she walked into a juggernaut of a team that just needed her to improve and mature by the end of her freshmen year. No one had the full four years of all the pieces of a great team each year- more than this graduating class. That doesn't diminish their accomplishments- just a fact. They certainly made the most of it!!!
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If I am correct I COULD OF SWORN Turner and Ann S. were both sophomores that year. Someone said Jessica was a freshman But I don't think so. I need to see the facts to be sure though....Does anyone have those facts?

Yea Maya had 5 freshmans who were up and down. And only two of them started. Hayes was the only other solid player offensively. And sometimes she took vacations at the vital moments as she did in that final 4 game.

And yet they made it to the Final 4. Moore had 37 points that game. She did all she could do with no help from Hayes. Bria did her best to help. Dolson well, she was freshman, She tried. They all tried. But the offense wasn't there collectively.
 
2003-04 Women's Basketball Roster


NO. NAME YR. POSITION HT HOMETOWN/HIGH SCHOOL
2 Ashley Valley Jr. G 5-9 Colchester, VT/Rice Memorial
3 Diana Taurasi Sr. G/F 6-0 Chino, CA/Don Lugo
5 Maria Conlon Sr. G 5-9 Derby, CT/Seymour
12 Stacey Marron Jr. G 5-9 Albuquerque, NM/La Cueva
20 Morgan Valley Sr. G 6-0 Colchester, VT/Rice Memorial
21 Nicole Wolff So. G 6-0 Walpole, MA/Walpole
22 Ashley Battle^ Jr. F 6-0 Pittsburgh, PA/The Linsly School
23 Willnett Crockett So. F/C 6-2 Harbor City, CA/Narbonne
31 Jessica Moore^ Jr. C 6-3 Palmer, AK/Colony
33 Barbara Turner So. F/G 6-0 Cleveland, OH/East Technical
43 Ann Strother So. G 6-2 Castle Rock, CO/Highlands Ranch
 
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Barbare Turner and Ann S. Both were there from 2002-2006. Both were sophomores when D was a senior. D came in from 2000-2004 with Maria Colon who was also a senior with Morgan Valley.

Colon also was a decent shooter.

Jessica Moore 2000-2005, redshirt or not she was a great rebounder and good player on the boards and scored during D's senior year along with another good rebounder Ashely Battles, a Junior.
 
2000-01 recruits: DT. Ashley Battle (medical red shirt after 7 games), Jessica Moore (red-shirt), Morgan Valley, Maria Conlon
2001-02 recruits: Ashley Valley, Stacey Marron (walk-on)
2002-03 recruits: Ann Strother, Nicole Wolff, Barbara Turner, Willnett Crockett
2003-04 recruits: Liz Sherwood, Kiana Robinson - both left the program before the start of the next season.

For the 2002-03 season both Battle and Moore were listed as RSo because eligibility wise they were both in their 2nd year though they had been with the program for 2 full years already. (Same as Morgan Tuck being listed this year as an RJr though she is a senior academically.)

TASSK arrived for the 1998-1999 season - the following year there was only one recruit - Kennitra Johnson who left the team after two years (prior to the 2001-02 season)

RAMMD arrived for 2000-01 season - the following year there was only one recruit Ashley Valley and one walk-on Stacey Marron

Following the blockbuster class of BWAN for the 2002-03 season (and I believe they were the #1 rated class that year) there were only two recruits - Kiana Robinson and a very late signing of Liz Sherwood ( a signing that I believe Geno deeply regretted and taught him not to sign players in desperation when first choices committed elsewhere.)

The pattern of very small classes signing following block buster classes has continued
2009-10 - Faris following a class of Doty, Hayes, Buck, EDD, McCormack (Transfer) (JTECH)
20013-14 - Chong following a class of Jefferson, Tuck, and Stewart (MBM)

Interestingly - 2016-17 is not a small class following Samuelson, Collier, and Boykin - though it consists of only one very highly rated player.
 
Phillyconn said:
Stewie, MJ and MT are the greatest trio in NCAA history, throw in KLS and KN and you have the greatest team of all time!
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Renee, Maya, and Tina may be the best trio. Maya and Tina may be the best in the world at their respective positions.
 
HuskyNan said:
Renee, Maya, and Tina may be the best trio. Maya and Tina may be the best in the world at their respective positions.
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IMHO, Mo is better than Renee. I hate to say it, but Stewie is better than Maya as a college player. Stewie can do more than Maya, she can post you up, she has a deadly mid range jumper that is practically unblockable. She shoots the 3, at a very high percentage. She can drive by you, shoot over you. She passes very well. She can hurt you on the defensive end also. She is the all time blocked shots leader in UCONN history. You can't teach height. 6'4", with a 7'1" wingspan. Highly mobile. Morgan versus Tina is a tough one. Morgan is a better passer by far, she has more range on her jumper. I'll give Tina the edge on defense. Give me Morgan based on the fact that when she's on the floor the offense is just a thing of beauty, her movement without the ball, her passing ability, the way she sets screens then pops out for a three. I think this year was the best looking offensive flow that I have ever seen, including last year.
 
HuskyNan said:
Renee, Maya, and Tina may be the best trio. Maya and Tina may be the best in the world at their respective positions.
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I agree, but they were from three separate classes and so we only saw them together for two years and only one championship.

Phillyconn - Love Morgan, and she is a little more versatile than Tina, but Tina is one of the best centers of all time with range to the top of the key by her senior year, power and speed from the free-throw line in. She certainly had fewer assist, but a lot of that was because when she got the ball she scored - with a career shooting percentage of .610!
Renee was a more prolific scorer and a very good floor general, but yeah Moriah is one of the best all time PGs
Maya/Stewart - debate rages but whichever side you come down on the margin is paper thin.
It really comes down to the greatest ever PG and a very good forward vs. the greatest ever center and a very good PG/Combo guard - pick 'em
 
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