May 2024 WNBA Thread, part II

[nwhoopfan]

Aces win 104-85. 28 for Wilson, 23 for Plum, 18 for Young, 12 for Gray.

Sims led Dallas w/ 25, 14 for Howard, 13 for Ogunbowale.

 

[Baller29]

Aces win 104-85. 28 for Wilson, 23 for Plum, 18 for Young, 12 for Gray.

Sims led Dallas w/ 25, 14 for Howard, 13 for Ogunbowale.

Smart by Dallas to add Sims back, she has been wonderful but Dallas still needs much more.

Arike has to learn to be more efficient. Idk if that’s ever gonna happen but that’s the goal lol

 

[nwhoopfan]

Haha ha

Two apologies one first for the laughter that prevented me from providing a clear response to the dominative kitty. And second for labeling her a fringe player. While she was a fringe player for her first years in the league she's upped her game and she's pedestrian this year.

In her 110 career games I would guess that she's been a starter less than two dozen times but correct me if I'm wrong. However let's look at the past four games including the overtime victory that prompted her to Crow. Btw .. I was surprised that a diminutive Kittie could Crow

Since this is a team sport and we know the definitive Kitty has a sharp defensive eye we can see that defensive eye may not translate into court vision as they gave up 90 points in their overtime victory to the Aces.(Note I'm not arguing you don't have some defensive issues to address as they gave up 98 to the kitty LED team)

The clawing kitties defense held the Mystics to 82 in a loss, and gave up 90 Plus in their back to back losses to the Liberty.

In these four games opposing guards were really shut down by the kitty and crew

Mysics 16 for 31.. with the noted offensive force Walker Kimbrough 17 points to tie McDonald for game high. Perhaps McDonald's defense was impacted by the all her energy expended on the offensive end.

Liberty (2games)-Kitty really turned it on as Sabrina scored 31 in the first game and 24 in the second. Kitty might have been a little tired, she only scored two in the second game after pouring in 10 in the first.

I'm thinking that the million dollar coach in the dumpster fire that was 118 yesterday should make a deal to bring McDonald's to the merc. I think she shares his defensive philosophy and she'd be super close to go visit those Hangouts down in the dirty t.

Wow, that was pretty long winded. I think she's living rent free in your head.

 

[azfan]

Wow, that was pretty long winded. I think she's living rent free in your head.

Rumor has it that the kitty and million dollar coach will be appearing on a local cable channel during the playoffs to share their defensive insght and reflect on their success at the professional level.

Plum is unavailable as she will be in Paris and of course participating on the playoffs.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Rumor has it that the kitty and million dollar coach will be appearing on a local cable channel during the playoffs to share their defensive insght and reflect on their success at the professional level.

Plum is unavailable as she will be in Paris and of course participating on the playoffs.

Don't get me wrong, I think I'm probably the biggest Plum fan on this site. But I can simultaneously acknowledge Aari has had several good games recently.

I'm not gonna defend the coach of the Merc, it's kinda humorous how much you have it in for him.

I just hope I never get in your cross sights. You are relentless when you hone in on something.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Today A'ja became the leading scorer in Utah/San Antonio/Las Vegas franchise history.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Second consecutive game Chicago @ Seattle. Tale of two halves. Sky up 8 at the half, Storm come back to win by 13.

Chicago's young front court is good, but Nneka and Ezi out did them today.

 

[JellyBean]

Today A'ja became the leading scorer in Utah/San Antonio/Las Vegas franchise history.

I mean I should not be surprised that A'ja is the leading scorer in the history of that franchise. She has been a force since entering the league. I am impressed with how quickly she reached that milestone. 208 games. Congrats, A'ja!!

 

[diggerfoot]

I explained it thoroughly here and never got a response from you in regards to the 53% figure. Every post you make about Clark you bring it up in an effort to discredit her or undermine her.



The timeframe I referenced is the past 5 games where her assists per game on the season has jumped from 6.2 per game to 7.4. During those 5 games she's averaging 11.2 assists per game which is a massive increase. If she continues to pass at that kind of level, then yes, I'd say skyrocket is the accurate word.




This is false. Indiana has not been consistent in shooting 43% from the floor, despite your claims. Look at the numbers from the first 13 games to the last 9:

First 13 games:
3-10 record
41.6% FG
33.4% 3pt
Clark averages 6 assists per game.
Clark--> Boston average of 1.3 assists per game

Last 9 games:
6-3 record
47.3% FG
36.3% 3pt
Clark averages 9.3 assists per game
Clark -->Boston average of 4 assists per game


The stats show improved team shooting percentages and a notable increase in Clark's assist numbers, both of which are clear indicators that teammates are catching and finishing her passes more effectively. I'd suggest watching some of Indiana's games and you'll see the marked improvement from the first few weeks to where they are now.

I’ve been going roughly week to week. I thought your comments spanned a week. If it was five games and more than a week ago, then that is my error. I know the Fever has improved, due to Clark improving her decision making, something she admitted herself. After a game with 7 turnovers she confessed to being too indecisive.

As for cherry picking, I address that in your other comment that I previously did not see. Though I can’t help but ask what do you call it when you use a five game reference for one claim m and a nine game reference for another claim?

As you will see in my reply to your other comment, I will continue to “cherry pick” that 53% stat as long you and others consistently call her Iowa teammates as average, or you provide for me a reasonable statistic that would justify in your mind calling Iowa’s shooters elite.

 

[Baller29]

 

[JellyBean]

Zoom is the gift that keeps on giving!

 

[nwhoopfan]

So...Sparks lose to the Merc who were missing 2 starters, plus it looks like Griner kinda took the night off even though she was on the court (pulled a JJ...). Pretty much got beat by 2 players, Cloud and Copper.

LA is 2-1 against Vegas, 3-15 against the rest of the league. Go figure.



Waiting for @azfan to offer thoughts about Aari's 1-10 shooting performance and 4 points.

 

[bbsamjj]

Aari is a borderline WNBA starting guard but far from a fringe player. In her 4 seasons in league she's averaged 22mpg, 8.8ppg and 2.7apg. This year she's averaging nearly 10ppg and and a career high 4apg (on a greater than 2:1 a/to ratio). Now, she was definitely feeling herself after the Vegas win... but LA needs to celebrate when they can this year.

 

[The deacon]

Aari is a borderline WNBA starting guard but far from a fringe player. In her 4 seasons in league she's averaged 22mpg, 8.8ppg and 2.7apg. This year she's averaging nearly 10ppg and and a career high 4apg (on a greater than 2:1 a/to ratio). Now, she was definitely feeling herself after the Vegas win... but LA needs to celebrate when they can this year.

Agreed bbsamjji... unfortunately for the Sparks, Aari kept firing in the final minutes, with four of her misses coming down the stretch, instead of getting the ball to Hamby or Jackson.

 

[diggerfoot]

I almost thought you were going to get through a Clark post without mentioning the cherry picked 53% figure you consistently use to undermine her, but you came through once again. How am I lamenting her shooting support? I stated that CC’s shot is missing it’s lift and she’s consistenty cools off after the 1st quarter. I also stated her teammates have been catching her passes and finishing shots better the last several games which is why her assists are skyrocketing. The only criticism I’ve made is in regards to the SF spot (which is clearly Indiana’s weak spot) and those players have struggled to finish wide open looks.

Admittedly, you’ve gotten into my head, so this will be my last retort as I “recuperate.”

You appear to follow my comments, as I have followed yours, so you know that I stated several times that Clark made her teammates better, deserved POY and has infused excitement into the sport. I have called her a great player a couple of times, while also acknowledging that she is flawed, in my opinion due to her decision making in roles that should have been more simplified for her. I just can’t fathom how people cannot recognize that 53% shooting is something to be lauded on its own merits and not as further credit to one star. Here is my last attempt at illumination.

You still have to make bunnies when you have them. Swin Cash, a UConn All-American, did not convert bunnies at the rate of Czinano, et al. Neither does Reese. But the real proof lies in the perimeter shooting. Except for players with abnormally quick releases, like Fudd, or tall for their position, like Samuelson, perimeter shots by almost all players are open when they take them. Maybe they are open due to a flaw in the defense, too focused on one player, or maybe they are open due to offensive execution with screens, etc, but they are open shots that players still have to make.

Clark makes her teammates better by giving them more of those open looks than they would have otherwise, but the fact that they converted at such a high percentage also made Clark better. Without so many open looks they do not average 91 points, without converting so many open looks they do not average 91 points. It just baffles me why 53% does not bestow deserved credit upon her teammates. That instead there are folks that will interpret all Iowa success as a reflection on Clark only, and that she cannot possibly be a contributor to Fever shortcomings.

You (and others) may be grateful to hear that is my last word.

 

[azfan]

Don't get me wrong, I think I'm probably the biggest Plum fan on this site. But I can simultaneously acknowledge Aari has had several good games recently.

I'm not gonna defend the coach of the Merc, it's kinda humorous how much you have it in for him.

I just hope I never get in your cross sights. You are relentless when you hone in on something.

?
Two=Several
?

Poor games > Good

Last night Miller had to sit the kitty after Cloud abused her in the first quarter. She ised her quickness to go one of 10 from the field. I think this was the same type of performance she had last month on the 22nd. 0 for 8. But I would guess the offensive shutdown was due to the energy she was expending on the defensive end... oh wait Cloud had a career night last night and her eyes were big as saucers when she saw the diminutive kitty had the defensive assignment.

Like the rest of the boneyard I'm waiting for the kitty to tweet out a la her Plum analysis.

 

[azfan]

Agreed bbsamjji... unfortunately for the Sparks, Aari kept firing in the final minutes, with four of her misses coming down the stretch, instead of getting the ball to Hamby or Jackson.

Best descriptor for the diminutive Kitty yet!

 

[azfan]

Aari is a borderline WNBA starting guard but far from a fringe player. In her 4 seasons in league she's averaged 22mpg, 8.8ppg and 2.7apg. This year she's averaging nearly 10ppg and and a career high 4apg (on a greater than 2:1 a/to ratio). Now, she was definitely feeling herself after the Vegas win... but LA needs to celebrate when they can this year.

Second best descriptor.

I still wonder about her self described defensive prowess. But as her size is a major drawback just look at Cloud's career night as she repeatedly abused the kitty. It was funny that with the diminutive kitty on the board Cloud would immediately locate her and I can imagine the narrative in her head as she took her to school.

Point guards need to have consistent outstanding judgment as well as the ability to implement that judgment. Entering her 111th career game I'm not sure that McDonald has consistently demonstrated that kind of judgment and her defensive limitations due to her height would I think give pause to any one other than the million dollar coach (and Kurt Miller)when putting together a roster.

It'll be interesting to see what the Sparks do next year at the PG position. If Aari is in the mix at PG I think it lowers the ceiling for the Sparks perhaps even to Merc level

A previous BY post indicated that McDonald is having a career year. She's shooting 40% from the field and 32% from three land so if she's close to her ceiling offensively at the Midway point of her career year, one has to wonder how far this type of PG can take a team. One PG quality the dominative kitty does seem to possess is confidence as she called out two time champion and Olympian Kelsey Plum for a lack of defense. I guess I'm wondering if all that confidence is justified and has any basis in performance.


The boneyard has lamented the quality of college players who don't find a spot on a roster in the w. Is it possible that one of these favorite players that are appreciated by BYers might be a suitable replacement for the kitty (described on the BY as borderline, unfortunate, and transitioning from fringe to pedestrian); that is have the physical ability to provide defensive stops, exercise required PG judgment, and affect that judgment on the floor?

I'm wondering if she's feeling herself after her performance and the loss to a very poor road performing Phoenix team that was resting the GOAT, had Rebecca Allen on the bench and enjoyed BG channeling JJ and McCowean,.or is her feeling the same as it was on June 22nd after her 0 for against the Liberty?

Waiting for her Twitter to answer these and other insights questions?

 

[azfan]

So...Sparks lose to the Merc who were missing 2 starters, plus it looks like Griner kinda took the night off even though she was on the court (pulled a JJ...). Pretty much got beat by 2 players, Cloud and Copper.

LA is 2-1 against Vegas, 3-15 against the rest of the league. Go figure.



Waiting for @azfan to offer thoughts about Aari's 1-10 shooting performance and 4 points.

And....Phx guards dominate, Aari critical of Plum's defense......hum.... As I mentioned earlier cloud in a career game abused the entire Sparks defense and in particular loved it when Aari was on the court.

I'm waiting for the diminutive kitty's thoughts and insights which I'm sure she'll post on Twitter a la her slam on Kelsey Plum who as I recall does have a bit of a resume.

 

[azfan]

Aari is a borderline WNBA starting guard but far from a fringe player. In her 4 seasons in league she's averaged 22mpg, 8.8ppg and 2.7apg. This year she's averaging nearly 10ppg and and a career high 4apg (on a greater than 2:1 a/to ratio). Now, she was definitely feeling herself after the Vegas win... but LA needs to celebrate when they can this year.

Looked but I couldn't find her plus minus for the career. I know this is a team metric but I think useful when looking at a PG and evaluating their contribution.

Don't have a great deal of facility with the online metrics and statistics but I do have some questions that would help me contextualize where the dominative kitty fits on spectrum of point guards:

1. What is the average and mean level of stats for starting PG's in the w both this year and perhaps over the career of the flash from the dirty t? That is scoring, shooting percentage, shooting efficiency, and defense? I have a strong suspicion where Aari would fit and it's not above those averages. So if I'm correct it would be an empiric observation to say the diminutive PF is below average. It's qualitative to say that someone who is below average is pedestrian but I just thought that was kind of a well funny way to describe the kitty.

2. Acknowledging the Sparks are a poor team and it's hard to determine which way the causality goes how does the diminutive kitty's plus minus compare to point guards who starred in the league? We all know the answer to this because the Sparks are so bad. So the way to sort this might be to take the bottom six teams in the w and calculate plus minus for the starting point guards and then compare Aari. This would be who's the best of the worst point guards in the league. I have a strong suspicion where Aari would fit.

I also acknowledge that given this career year Aari has upped her performance from fringe which she clearly was during the first three years in the league to pedestrian. I would suspect she is below average when comparing any of her performance metrics to the average of starting pgs in the w this year.

And that's okay.

The other pedestrian point guards in the league however have refrained from slamming their elite counterparts on the Twitter or the other social media

 

[GirlBoo1020]

I'm enjoying it more. Last year it felt like there were 3 great teams (of which the Aces and Liberty were the clear favorites) and the rest were mediocre or bad. I see more parity this season, which offers more intrigue and interest. I think we're going to have a post-season full of twists and turns with a few upsets. Then we have these new players infusing some young energy into the league and bringing in new fans and more media coverage from talk shows. This year the league feels more accessible and exciting to me.

Yea I'll be excited for the playoffs. Right now it seems like the top teams are just running through the motions and not playing particularly inspired basketball.

I am curious about how the Olympics will impact the second half of the WNBA season and playoffs. A few Olympians, US and others, seem to already being hanging on by a thread injury/burn out wise given the compressed schedule of the first half of the season. What will happen post Olympics to Olympians currently battling injury or Olympians fine now but may hit wall. Given how Olympian heavy so many of the top 6 teams are, it could change the whole complexion of the league.

I think I'll tune back in then because right now even exciting games are just not good basketball.

 

[hoopsnloops32]

Yea I'll be excited for the playoffs. Right now it seems like the top teams are just running through the motions and not playing particularly inspired basketball.

I am curious about how the Olympics will impact the second half of the WNBA season and playoffs. A few Olympians, US and others, seem to already being hanging on by a thread injury/burn out wise given the compressed schedule of the first half of the season. What will happen post Olympics to Olympians currently battling injury or Olympians fine now but may hit wall. Given how Olympian heavy so many of the top 6 teams are, it could change the whole complexion of the league.

I think I'll tune back in then because right now even exciting games are just not good basketball.

This will be interesting to watch, especially with teams at the back of the pack likely getting an infusion of talent back post Olympic break. Like the Mystics with Sykes and Austin and Dallas with Satou and Maddy.

 

[bballnut90]

I’ve been going roughly week to week. I thought your comments spanned a week. If it was five games and more than a week ago, then that is my error. I know the Fever has improved, due to Clark improving her decision making, something she admitted herself. After a game with 7 turnovers she confessed to being too indecisive.

As for cherry picking, I address that in your other comment that I previously did not see. Though I can’t help but ask what do you call it when you use a five game reference for one claim m and a nine game reference for another claim?

As you will see in my reply to your other comment, I will continue to “cherry pick” that 53% stat as long you and others consistently call her Iowa teammates as average, or you provide for me a reasonable statistic that would justify in your mind calling Iowa’s shooters elite.

I used recently cherry picked stats for 5 games that show the skyrocketing nature of her assists (when I first referenced the last several games), and extended it to 9 to highlight the stretch of when the Fever started playing better. Anyway you analyze the numbers though, she's getting notably more assists as the season continues compared to when the season started. I've watched almost every Fever game this year and think the biggest differentiator is team chemistry and players running the floor and being ready to catch her passes. It appears you think otherwise, and that's fine, we can agree to disagree.

In regards to Clark's Iowa teammates, I don't believe I've made any comment about them in the past 2+ months other than praising Kate Martin for finding a spot in the league. I haven't seen any threads on here continue to discuss her teammates after the season ended. All Clark topics I've seen have been in regards to her WNBA performance, or threads about Bueckers on the UCONN board that somehow are consistently warped into Caitlin Clark threads before they get locked.

Admittedly, you’ve gotten into my head, so this will be my last retort as I “recuperate.”

You appear to follow my comments, as I have followed yours, so you know that I stated several times that Clark made her teammates better, deserved POY and has infused excitement into the sport. I have called her a great player a couple of times, while also acknowledging that she is flawed, in my opinion due to her decision making in roles that should have been more simplified for her. I just can’t fathom how people cannot recognize that 53% shooting is something to be lauded on its own merits and not as further credit to one star. Here is my last attempt at illumination.

You still have to make bunnies when you have them. Swin Cash, a UConn All-American, did not convert bunnies at the rate of Czinano, et al. Neither does Reese. But the real proof lies in the perimeter shooting. Except for players with abnormally quick releases, like Fudd, or tall for their position, like Samuelson, perimeter shots by almost all players are open when they take them. Maybe they are open due to a flaw in the defense, too focused on one player, or maybe they are open due to offensive execution with screens, etc, but they are open shots that players still have to make.

Clark makes her teammates better by giving them more of those open looks than they would have otherwise, but the fact that they converted at such a high percentage also made Clark better. Without so many open looks they do not average 91 points, without converting so many open looks they do not average 91 points. It just baffles me why 53% does not bestow deserved credit upon her teammates. That instead there are folks that will interpret all Iowa success as a reflection on Clark only, and that she cannot possibly be a contributor to Fever shortcomings.

You (and others) may be grateful to hear that is my last word.

53% shooting by her teammates is outstanding. She had teammates who were excellent finishers and were very good collegiate players. Clark (and Iowa) benefitted from them. Caitlin also scored or assisted on 68.5% of the baskets in Iowa's offense and led Iowa to back to back runner up appearances with just 1 other WNBA caliber teammate. Teammates benefitted from her passing and the attention she drew. Teammates deserve credit, but so does Clark for orchestrating and running the offense that was #1 in scoring by a wide margin. All of those things can be true.

Clark's shortcomings as a rookie (TOs, streaks of cold shooting) are well documented and have been discussed on here.

 

[baggerbob]

Yea I'll be excited for the playoffs. Right now it seems like the top teams are just running through the motions and not playing particularly inspired basketball.

I am curious about how the Olympics will impact the second half of the WNBA season and playoffs. A few Olympians, US and others, seem to already being hanging on by a thread injury/burn out wise given the compressed schedule of the first half of the season. What will happen post Olympics to Olympians currently battling injury or Olympians fine now but may hit wall. Given how Olympian heavy so many of the top 6 teams are, it could change the whole complexion of the league.

I think I'll tune back in then because right now even exciting games are just not good basketball.

Right now the favorites to be in the semifinals and finals, would be Connecticut, Las Vegas, Minnesota, and Seattle. Connecticut is the best team in the east, and the other 3 teams will probably come from the West.
Las Vegas, Minnesota, and Seattle.

 

[GirlBoo1020]

Right now the favorites to be in the semifinals and finals, would be Connecticut, Las Vegas, Minnesota, and Seattle. Connecticut is the best team in the east, and the other 3 teams will probably come from the West.
Las Vegas, Minnesota, and Seattle.

And Vegas has 5 Olympians, potentially 6 if Meg makes it. New York has 3 Olympians, Minnesota has 3, Seattle has 2 and CT has 1. The lack of rest for those key players could have in impact on the final standings, especially given the injury concerns for a bunch of them. Same issues for the Mercury, who despite being middle of the pack have 4 Olympians themselves, 3 of which have been battling various injuries all season.

Then of course you have a young team with no Olympians in the Fever. You have the Mystics who have two of their younger players going to the Olympics but will return their talented vets post Olympic break. Dallas will return key players after the Olympic break.

I think the whole complexion of the league could be different come August 15th than it is right now depending on how the rest or lack of rest benefits or hinders each team/player. Will be very curious to see it all play out.