May 2024 WNBA Thread, part II
- Thread starter HuskyNan
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I mean I should not be surprised that A'ja is the leading scorer in the history of that franchise. She has been a force since entering the league. I am impressed with how quickly she reached that milestone. 208 games. Congrats, A'ja!!
diggerfoot
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I’ve been going roughly week to week. I thought your comments spanned a week. If it was five games and more than a week ago, then that is my error. I know the Fever has improved, due to Clark improving her decision making, something she admitted herself. After a game with 7 turnovers she confessed to being too indecisive.
As for cherry picking, I address that in your other comment that I previously did not see. Though I can’t help but ask what do you call it when you use a five game reference for one claim m and a nine game reference for another claim?
As you will see in my reply to your other comment, I will continue to “cherry pick” that 53% stat as long you and others consistently call her Iowa teammates as average, or you provide for me a reasonable statistic that would justify in your mind calling Iowa’s shooters elite.
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Zoom is the gift that keeps on giving!
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nwhoopfan
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So...Sparks lose to the Merc who were missing 2 starters, plus it looks like Griner kinda took the night off even though she was on the court (pulled a JJ...). Pretty much got beat by 2 players, Cloud and Copper.
LA is 2-1 against Vegas, 3-15 against the rest of the league. Go figure.
Waiting for @azfan to offer thoughts about Aari's 1-10 shooting performance and 4 points.
LA is 2-1 against Vegas, 3-15 against the rest of the league. Go figure.
Waiting for @azfan to offer thoughts about Aari's 1-10 shooting performance and 4 points.
bbsamjj
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Aari is a borderline WNBA starting guard but far from a fringe player. In her 4 seasons in league she's averaged 22mpg, 8.8ppg and 2.7apg. This year she's averaging nearly 10ppg and and a career high 4apg (on a greater than 2:1 a/to ratio). Now, she was definitely feeling herself after the Vegas win... but LA needs to celebrate when they can this year.
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Agreed bbsamjji... unfortunately for the Sparks, Aari kept firing in the final minutes, with four of her misses coming down the stretch, instead of getting the ball to Hamby or Jackson.
diggerfoot
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Admittedly, you’ve gotten into my head, so this will be my last retort as I “recuperate.”
You appear to follow my comments, as I have followed yours, so you know that I stated several times that Clark made her teammates better, deserved POY and has infused excitement into the sport. I have called her a great player a couple of times, while also acknowledging that she is flawed, in my opinion due to her decision making in roles that should have been more simplified for her. I just can’t fathom how people cannot recognize that 53% shooting is something to be lauded on its own merits and not as further credit to one star. Here is my last attempt at illumination.
You still have to make bunnies when you have them. Swin Cash, a UConn All-American, did not convert bunnies at the rate of Czinano, et al. Neither does Reese. But the real proof lies in the perimeter shooting. Except for players with abnormally quick releases, like Fudd, or tall for their position, like Samuelson, perimeter shots by almost all players are open when they take them. Maybe they are open due to a flaw in the defense, too focused on one player, or maybe they are open due to offensive execution with screens, etc, but they are open shots that players still have to make.
Clark makes her teammates better by giving them more of those open looks than they would have otherwise, but the fact that they converted at such a high percentage also made Clark better. Without so many open looks they do not average 91 points, without converting so many open looks they do not average 91 points. It just baffles me why 53% does not bestow deserved credit upon her teammates. That instead there are folks that will interpret all Iowa success as a reflection on Clark only, and that she cannot possibly be a contributor to Fever shortcomings.
You (and others) may be grateful to hear that is my last word.
?Don't get me wrong, I think I'm probably the biggest Plum fan on this site. But I can simultaneously acknowledge Aari has had several good games recently.
I'm not gonna defend the coach of the Merc, it's kinda humorous how much you have it in for him.
I just hope I never get in your cross sights. You are relentless when you hone in on something.
Two=Several
?
Poor games > Good
Last night Miller had to sit the kitty after Cloud abused her in the first quarter. She ised her quickness to go one of 10 from the field. I think this was the same type of performance she had last month on the 22nd. 0 for 8. But I would guess the offensive shutdown was due to the energy she was expending on the defensive end... oh wait Cloud had a career night last night and her eyes were big as saucers when she saw the diminutive kitty had the defensive assignment.
Like the rest of the boneyard I'm waiting for the kitty to tweet out a la her Plum analysis.
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Best descriptor for the diminutive Kitty yet!
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Second best descriptor.
I still wonder about her self described defensive prowess. But as her size is a major drawback just look at Cloud's career night as she repeatedly abused the kitty. It was funny that with the diminutive kitty on the board Cloud would immediately locate her and I can imagine the narrative in her head as she took her to school.
Point guards need to have consistent outstanding judgment as well as the ability to implement that judgment. Entering her 111th career game I'm not sure that McDonald has consistently demonstrated that kind of judgment and her defensive limitations due to her height would I think give pause to any one other than the million dollar coach (and Kurt Miller)when putting together a roster.
It'll be interesting to see what the Sparks do next year at the PG position. If Aari is in the mix at PG I think it lowers the ceiling for the Sparks perhaps even to Merc level
A previous BY post indicated that McDonald is having a career year. She's shooting 40% from the field and 32% from three land so if she's close to her ceiling offensively at the Midway point of her career year, one has to wonder how far this type of PG can take a team. One PG quality the dominative kitty does seem to possess is confidence as she called out two time champion and Olympian Kelsey Plum for a lack of defense. I guess I'm wondering if all that confidence is justified and has any basis in performance.
The boneyard has lamented the quality of college players who don't find a spot on a roster in the w. Is it possible that one of these favorite players that are appreciated by BYers might be a suitable replacement for the kitty (described on the BY as borderline, unfortunate, and transitioning from fringe to pedestrian); that is have the physical ability to provide defensive stops, exercise required PG judgment, and affect that judgment on the floor?
I'm wondering if she's feeling herself after her performance and the loss to a very poor road performing Phoenix team that was resting the GOAT, had Rebecca Allen on the bench and enjoyed BG channeling JJ and McCowean,.or is her feeling the same as it was on June 22nd after her 0 for against the Liberty?
Waiting for her Twitter to answer these and other insights questions?
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And....Phx guards dominate, Aari critical of Plum's defense......hum.... As I mentioned earlier cloud in a career game abused the entire Sparks defense and in particular loved it when Aari was on the court.So...Sparks lose to the Merc who were missing 2 starters, plus it looks like Griner kinda took the night off even though she was on the court (pulled a JJ...). Pretty much got beat by 2 players, Cloud and Copper.
LA is 2-1 against Vegas, 3-15 against the rest of the league. Go figure.
Waiting for @azfan to offer thoughts about Aari's 1-10 shooting performance and 4 points.
I'm waiting for the diminutive kitty's thoughts and insights which I'm sure she'll post on Twitter a la her slam on Kelsey Plum who as I recall does have a bit of a resume.
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Looked but I couldn't find her plus minus for the career. I know this is a team metric but I think useful when looking at a PG and evaluating their contribution.
Don't have a great deal of facility with the online metrics and statistics but I do have some questions that would help me contextualize where the dominative kitty fits on spectrum of point guards:
1. What is the average and mean level of stats for starting PG's in the w both this year and perhaps over the career of the flash from the dirty t? That is scoring, shooting percentage, shooting efficiency, and defense? I have a strong suspicion where Aari would fit and it's not above those averages. So if I'm correct it would be an empiric observation to say the diminutive PF is below average. It's qualitative to say that someone who is below average is pedestrian but I just thought that was kind of a well funny way to describe the kitty.
2. Acknowledging the Sparks are a poor team and it's hard to determine which way the causality goes how does the diminutive kitty's plus minus compare to point guards who starred in the league? We all know the answer to this because the Sparks are so bad. So the way to sort this might be to take the bottom six teams in the w and calculate plus minus for the starting point guards and then compare Aari. This would be who's the best of the worst point guards in the league. I have a strong suspicion where Aari would fit.
I also acknowledge that given this career year Aari has upped her performance from fringe which she clearly was during the first three years in the league to pedestrian. I would suspect she is below average when comparing any of her performance metrics to the average of starting pgs in the w this year.
And that's okay.
The other pedestrian point guards in the league however have refrained from slamming their elite counterparts on the Twitter or the other social media
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Yea I'll be excited for the playoffs. Right now it seems like the top teams are just running through the motions and not playing particularly inspired basketball.
I am curious about how the Olympics will impact the second half of the WNBA season and playoffs. A few Olympians, US and others, seem to already being hanging on by a thread injury/burn out wise given the compressed schedule of the first half of the season. What will happen post Olympics to Olympians currently battling injury or Olympians fine now but may hit wall. Given how Olympian heavy so many of the top 6 teams are, it could change the whole complexion of the league.
I think I'll tune back in then because right now even exciting games are just not good basketball.
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This will be interesting to watch, especially with teams at the back of the pack likely getting an infusion of talent back post Olympic break. Like the Mystics with Sykes and Austin and Dallas with Satou and Maddy.
bballnut90
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I used recently cherry picked stats for 5 games that show the skyrocketing nature of her assists (when I first referenced the last several games), and extended it to 9 to highlight the stretch of when the Fever started playing better. Anyway you analyze the numbers though, she's getting notably more assists as the season continues compared to when the season started. I've watched almost every Fever game this year and think the biggest differentiator is team chemistry and players running the floor and being ready to catch her passes. It appears you think otherwise, and that's fine, we can agree to disagree.
In regards to Clark's Iowa teammates, I don't believe I've made any comment about them in the past 2+ months other than praising Kate Martin for finding a spot in the league. I haven't seen any threads on here continue to discuss her teammates after the season ended. All Clark topics I've seen have been in regards to her WNBA performance, or threads about Bueckers on the UCONN board that somehow are consistently warped into Caitlin Clark threads before they get locked.
53% shooting by her teammates is outstanding. She had teammates who were excellent finishers and were very good collegiate players. Clark (and Iowa) benefitted from them. Caitlin also scored or assisted on 68.5% of the baskets in Iowa's offense and led Iowa to back to back runner up appearances with just 1 other WNBA caliber teammate. Teammates benefitted from her passing and the attention she drew. Teammates deserve credit, but so does Clark for orchestrating and running the offense that was #1 in scoring by a wide margin. All of those things can be true.
Clark's shortcomings as a rookie (TOs, streaks of cold shooting) are well documented and have been discussed on here.
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Right now the favorites to be in the semifinals and finals, would be Connecticut, Las Vegas, Minnesota, and Seattle. Connecticut is the best team in the east, and the other 3 teams will probably come from the West.
Las Vegas, Minnesota, and Seattle.
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And Vegas has 5 Olympians, potentially 6 if Meg makes it. New York has 3 Olympians, Minnesota has 3, Seattle has 2 and CT has 1. The lack of rest for those key players could have in impact on the final standings, especially given the injury concerns for a bunch of them. Same issues for the Mercury, who despite being middle of the pack have 4 Olympians themselves, 3 of which have been battling various injuries all season.
Then of course you have a young team with no Olympians in the Fever. You have the Mystics who have two of their younger players going to the Olympics but will return their talented vets post Olympic break. Dallas will return key players after the Olympic break.
I think the whole complexion of the league could be different come August 15th than it is right now depending on how the rest or lack of rest benefits or hinders each team/player. Will be very curious to see it all play out.
bbsamjj
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Except CT hasn't beaten NY in a while.
Including the playoff series, CT was 1-7 against NY last year. They are 0-1 thus far this season (though they play twice in next 8 days). JJ has a habit of disappearing but she usually shows up big against her former team.
The seedings will be really fascinating this year. Do you want to be the 1 seed if Vegas is the 4 seed? Not that MN (with Collier) is much more exciting. Who gets stuck with Seattle in the first round?
New York right now is not a good team. Too dependent on the 3 point shot. Last year they played inside out.
This year have taken way too many outside shots.
That leads to fast breaks the other way.
Sabrina is taking 2 more shots a game then Stewie, and 6 more the JJ.
That's not an effective offense.
nwhoopfan
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Um...tied for first place in the standings? Talk about a tough crowd.
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With Stewie shooting at a 23.9 clip from three, perhaps she should be shooting less of them?
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WBBTakeover
WHO CAN GUARD TESSA???!!!!
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Aari learned a valuable lesson this weekend. When you're not a DAWG, you keep your mouth shut so that you don't embarrass yourself in the future. While I have my issues with KP (mainly shot selection and defense), I do acknowledge that she is a DAWG--full stop. So is Tash Cloud (and Aari found out the hard way yesterday by getting lit up like the Rockefeller Christmas tree).
At this point in her career, Aari's diminutive behind can't roll with the big dawgs.
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WBBTakeover
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I also want to point out that Odyssey Sims is mostly hot air. It's not wise to mess with a dawg in training.
Sabrina should take less shots period, and Stewie has been shooting less 3's then normal from other years.
Sabrina on the other hand is taking more shots and overall shooting bad.
Plus NY shoots less free throws then most teams.
Taking 23 shots and only 2 free throws you aren't penetrating to get easier baskets.
And you aren't putting pressure on the other teams defense.
Sandy only won 1 championship with Griner and DT on her team.
I hope she proves me wrong, but she hasn't shown she is anything more the an average coach.
WBBTakeover
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A player who brings a high level of energy every game and makes positive things happen more often than not. T-Spoon was a dawg during her career, and it doesn't surprise me that two of her players are becoming dawgs in this league as well.
I also like to think that the player is accomplished professionally in some way (both Cloud and Plum are WNBA champs), but the younger ones likely won't be.
WBBTakeover
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Also coached Penny Taylor, DeWanna Bonner, Candice Dupree, and SDS. Sancho Lyttle and Briann January weren't slouches, either.
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