May 2024 WNBA Thread, part II

[diggerfoot]

Her shot was missing its lift after the first quarter (when she was red hot). I feel like it’s a common trend for CC to get a few buckets early and then cool off as the game goes on. Taking a few weeks off for the Olympic break could do wonders for her. Side note—her passing is translating so well the last few weeks and her teammates are showing better court awareness and catching/finishing assists that would previously wind up being TOs.
I’ll be surprised if she isn’t #1 in assists at the end of the season. She’s currently tied for 2nd place at 7.4 per game and has put up 56 assists in the last 5 games.

This is the second time I have seen you lament Clark’s support shooting wise. The Fever is fifth in the league at 43.9%; the Aces are first at 45,5%. The last place team is the Dream at 41.2%. Clark currently stands at 39.3%, 47th in a league with 60 starters, which means she brings down the Fever shooting percentage or otherwise they might be fourth.

I’m not sure how well you think a pro team normally shoots. Do you think that pro teams must shoot better than college teams? That indeed is true for most college teams, but not the best college teams year after year. There is no way that Clark will ever be on a pro team that shoots 53% like her Iowa teammates did. Not going to happen.

I would guess the Fever ceiling for FG% to be around 45%. I highly doubt her teammates are going to end the year shooting better than the Aces or Liberty. Perhaps you should be adjusting your expectations and aspersions for the shooting percentages of Clark’s teammates.

 

[JellyBean]

Yeah I thought she played well down the stretch.

Sorry to anyone who will take umbrage to this, but I cannot figure out why Samuelson gets so much playing time, let alone starts. She just doesn't do much on the court. I'd rather see any of Hull, Wallace or Berger getting those minutes.

Samuelson and Hull are about the same. One game they are giving you buckets and the next the game you are, well like you said, why is this person getting so much playing time? They are interesting that is for sure.

 

[JellyBean]

No Phee, almost no problem for Minnesota. They darn near let the Mystics sneak in and steal a win here in Minnesota. I am so glad that we have Courtney Williams and Kayla McBride.

 

[azfan]

As for Aari, she had this to say about her match-up with Kelsey Plum:


Role players talking that talk

I would be MORTIFIED to hear that from an opponent, especially one from a losing team who still isn't established in this league (and yes, I'm still upset that this version of Aari didn't show up with the Dream--we got an inferior model). I mean, we saw this last year against the Liberty in the regular season and Commissioner's Cup, but does Becky really want this to be the narrative of one of her "superstars"?

Yep..... I think this kind of talk is good for the league as it certainly generates buzz among the fans. I for one I'm delighted to see a kittie put a paw in its mouth. Reminds me about the dirty t and a saying from a former president what was it all hat and no cattle?

Plum has an established career in the w and is clearly a top tier player one that every franchise would love to have.

The mighty little kitty on the other hand is clearly a fringe player with no track record. I suspect she's playing due to the health challenges of brown and Clarendon. She has had 4 solid games season versus an established career for a talented two-time world champion. One thing's for sure I am definitely looking forward to the next Aces Sparks game.

Speaking of Sparks I think they're a lock pick up another win today. BG, the GOAT, Rebecca Allen are all reported out or questionable. Evidently the plane ride from 118° heat to the coast is daunting for those three players. I understand at her age the GOAT's need to rest and that Allen is struggling with back issues and that BG has significant emotional and mental issues.

What was the saying ... the best ability is....

That said perhaps the million dollar coach will prove me wrong and a voluntarily depleted merc squad will be able to take on the mighty
kittie and her teammates and come out with a w....not! I mean with the kittie's obvious expertise and knowledge of the league and defense, the merc are certainly inferior to the Aces defensively, offensively, coaching wise, roster-wise,..... Maybe ... well let's wait and see

A thought experiment: in 5 years or 20 years or 30 years fans and historians looking back at the w will certainly remember Asia Wilson, I would guess they probably will remember Plum, and memories of the mighty diminutive kittie will be limited to those from the dirty t.

Over under on whose team has a better record at the end of the season, which player has had a greater impact on their team this year, and dare I say it..... dare, dare who has better individual stats.

Ps. I'm not concerned about any kittie narrative. Other than dirty t residents and those very few unsophisticated Sparks fans this is all sound and fury.

 

[azfan]

I’d be terrified of facing A’ja in the playoffs if they deny her MVP again. She’s head and shoulders better than anyone else in the league right now

ABSOLUTELY

 

[bballnut90]

This is the second time I have seen you lament Clark’s support shooting wise. The Fever is fifth in the league at 43.9%; the Aces are first at 45,5%. The last place team is the Dream at 41.2%. Clark currently stands at 39.3%, 47th in a league with 60 starters, which means she brings down the Fever shooting percentage or otherwise they might be fourth.

I’m not sure how well you think a pro team normally shoots. Do you think that pro teams must shoot better than college teams? That indeed is true for most college teams, but not the best college teams year after year. There is no way that Clark will ever be on a pro team that shoots 53% like her Iowa teammates did. Not going to happen.

I would guess the Fever ceiling for FG% to be around 45%. I highly doubt her teammates are going to end the year shooting better than the Aces or Liberty. Perhaps you should be adjusting your expectations and aspersions for the shooting percentages of Clark’s teammates.

I almost thought you were going to get through a Clark post without mentioning the cherry picked 53% figure you consistently use to undermine her, but you came through once again. How am I lamenting her shooting support? I stated that CC’s shot is missing it’s lift and she’s consistenty cools off after the 1st quarter. I also stated her teammates have been catching her passes and finishing shots better the last several games which is why her assists are skyrocketing. The only criticism I’ve made is in regards to the SF spot (which is clearly Indiana’s weak spot) and those players have struggled to finish wide open looks.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

Not upset with Caitlin. Pulling for her as Bostons teammate. I have nothing against Hawkeyes Who are basketball fans who love her . She has some mad skills. I acknowledge that she is worthy of her all star selection

I can’t stand her worshippers who think she is the best player in the wnba NOW and deserves to recognized as the MOP this year. Rebounds, turnovers, and shooting percentages ARE meaningful stats

Are there actually a lot people that think she should be the MVp? I don't think so.

 

[cancontent]

Are there actually a lot people that think she should be the MVp? I don't think so.

At this point of the season, I don't think so. However, during the pre-season there were fan polls there Clark was selected over Wilson and Stewart.

 

[visitingcock]

Are there actually a lot people that think she should be the MVp? I don't think so.

Fans of basketball? No

But there are newbies who never watched the game before the fad who think so. I mean, a triple double is going to be the norm for her from here on since her teammates have finally quit conspiring against her

 

[bballnut90]

Are there actually a lot people that think she should be the MVp? I don't think so.

I haven't seen anyone try to make a credible case for it. The big talk with Clark is the current battle for ROY with Reese, as both are playing lights out right now.

 

[Bjbod]

Clark’s shot has been off all season long, probably a result of tired legs and improved defense. Once it starts to drop it’s gonna be scary hours for the rest of the league.

It’s going to take some roster and management moves to get there, but I really can see the Clark/Boston/Mitchell core leading the Fever to a title in a few years.

If there was a statistic showing how contested a player's shot was, I think Caitlin would be in 1st place...you just never see her left open. That, combined with her often being guarded for 94 feet, leads to her losing her legs as the games wear on. She's more than happy to get rid of the ball when she's covered...if her surrounding cast can convert at a higher clip I think her shooting % will rise.

 

[cancontent]

If there was a statistic showing how contested a player's shot was, I think Caitlin would be in 1st place...you just never see her left open. That, combined with her often being guarded for 94 feet, leads to her losing her legs as the games wear on. She's more than happy to get rid of the ball when she's covered...if her surrounding cast can convert at a higher clip I think her shooting % will rise.

Smith has a shooting percentage of 49.5%, Boston is at 50.2% and Fagebenle is at 54.4%. Considering A'ja Wilson is shooting 52.7%, I think their conversion rates are fine.

The team average is 43.9%, which isn't all that bad. As some noted, maybe the Olympic break will provide the team some rest and some of their shooting percentages will improve.

 

[Dillon77]

I think KLS’s length has helped make up for lack of foot speed defensively but I’d still take Hull over her as a defender.

In regards to shooting, KLS at 36.5% is a solid percentage, though I think it should be higher with the quality of looks she’s getting. Hull’s sample size this season is small (7 makes on 20 attempts) and she’s struggled from deep the past two years. I’d still bet on KLS being the better shooter. I think Wallace is a better passer than KLS but she’s been missing so many wide open looks.

To be honest, none of them have impressed this year and it’s been a glaring weakness for Indiana who otherwise is pretty darn solid at 1/2/4/5, but Hull was good today so hopefully she builds off of this and can cement some more playing time.

@JellyBean

KLS, Hull and Wallace are all under contract through the 2025 season, so this issue for next year is not going to take care of itself via expiring contracts.

I know Coach Sides wanted to bring two of her Dream cohorts in Wallace and Erica Wheeler with her and Linn Dunn obliged, signing both to multi-year contracts. However, one has to wonder what the logic was to extend Hull and sign KLS on top of that.

Interestingly, Erica Wheeler has not played more than 6+ minutes the last two games, Berger hasn't gotten off the pine and the Celeste Taylor cut was a "business decision." Meanwhile, Clark and Mitchell simply don't come out of games....However, Wheeler's a free agent after this season, so Berger might get her chance or the Fever might look to the draft for another guard.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

If there was a statistic showing how contested a player's shot was, I think Caitlin would be in 1st place...you just never see her left open. That, combined with her often being guarded for 94 feet, leads to her losing her legs as the games wear on. She's more than happy to get rid of the ball when she's covered...if her surrounding cast can convert at a higher clip I think her shooting % will rise.

She certainly adjusted and became more of a passer - as she gets stronger she'll likely regain some of the scoring. That initial blitz of games was not really the best thing for her at all.

She shoots it better playing off the ball but I don't think Indiana really has the pieces to make that work well all the time now. They need her to handle the ball and score and that's a big ask for a rookie playing huge minutes.

Reese on the other hand just needs to rebound and go from there.

Both having great debuts I think.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Sun got off to a great start, stumbled a little, Liberty cruised past them (I think they even slipped to third place momentarily?), seems like Conn. has fallen off the radar. About to beat Atl and pull back into a tie w/ NY.

 

[diggerfoot]

I almost thought you were going to get through a Clark post without mentioning the cherry picked 53% figure you consistently use to undermine her, but you came through once again. How am I lamenting her shooting support? I stated that CC’s shot is missing it’s lift and she’s consistenty cools off after the 1st quarter. I also stated her teammates have been catching her passes and finishing shots better the last several games which is why her assists are skyrocketing. The only criticism I’ve made is in regards to the SF spot (which is clearly Indiana’s weak spot) and those players have struggled to finish wide open looks.

Over the time span you refer to, her assists per game has risen from averaging 7.1 to 7.4, going from third to second, an improvement yes, but use of the word skyrocket, well, I’m not surprised. Meanwhile, the team has been shooting fairly consistently at the high 43% mark, her improvement is not due to her teammates finally shooting better, but rather due to her making better decisions. Her A/T ratio is now 1.3, a slight improvement as well, though the team’s average A/T ratio is still higher at 1.4. The Fever is not likely to shoot much better than they have for weeks now, or catch Clark’s passes better than they do each other’s, but perhaps Clark’s decisions will improve further.

You are right that I harp on that 53% shooting by her Iowa teammates. It is a phenomenal stat, indicative that her teammates got far less credit than they deserved, which is why I will continue to harp on it. Get used to it. In the meantime, please enlighten me as to how that 53% figure is cherry picked. From what? What relevant data do you think I am omitting from that cherry picking? I did compare it to what the best offensive team was shooting last year. I think that dispels a cherry picking notion but, if not, please educate me as to how it is cherry picking from what dataset and maybe I will stop harping on the phenomenal performance of Clark’s Iowa teammates last year.

 

[JellyBean]

Sun got off to a great start, stumbled a little, Liberty cruised past them (I think they even slipped to third place momentarily?), seems like Conn. has fallen off the radar. About to beat Atl and pull back into a tie w/ NY.

It did seem like Connecticut fell off the radar and was trending downward for a minute. Then you look at the standings and realize, "Oh. The Sun have only lost 4 games and are tied with New York for first in the league." They are in pretty decent shape overall. A few games separating them from Minnesota, Seattle, and Las Vegas.

 

[bballnut90]

You are right that I harp on that 53% shooting by her Iowa teammates. It is a phenomenal stat, indicative that her teammates got far less credit than they deserved, which is why I will continue to harp on it. Get used to it. In the meantime, please enlighten me as to how that 53% figure is cherry picked. From what? What relevant data do you think I am omitting from that cherry picking? I did compare it to what the best offensive team was shooting last year. I think that dispels a cherry picking notion but, if not, please educate me as to how it is cherry picking from what dataset and maybe I will stop harping on the phenomenal performance of Clark’s Iowa teammates last year.

I explained it thoroughly here and never got a response from you in regards to the 53% figure. Every post you make about Clark you bring it up in an effort to discredit her or undermine her.

Over the time span you refer to, her assists per game has risen from averaging 7.1 to 7.4, going from third to second, an improvement yes, but use of the word skyrocket, well, I’m not surprised.

The timeframe I referenced is the past 5 games where her assists per game on the season has jumped from 6.2 per game to 7.4. During those 5 games she's averaging 11.2 assists per game which is a massive increase. If she continues to pass at that kind of level, then yes, I'd say skyrocket is the accurate word.

Meanwhile, the team has been shooting fairly consistently at the high 43% mark, her improvement is not due to her teammates finally shooting better, but rather due to her making better decisions. Her A/T ratio is now 1.3, a slight improvement as well, though the team’s average A/T ratio is higher at 1.4. The Fever is not likely to shoot much better than they have for weeks now, or catch Clark’s passes better than they do each other’s, but perhaps Clark’s decisions will improve further.

This is false. Indiana has not been consistent in shooting 43% from the floor, despite your claims. Look at the numbers from the first 13 games to the last 9:

First 13 games:
3-10 record
41.6% FG
33.4% 3pt
Clark averages 6 assists per game.
Clark--> Boston average of 1.3 assists per game

Last 9 games:
6-3 record
47.3% FG
36.3% 3pt
Clark averages 9.3 assists per game
Clark -->Boston average of 4 assists per game


The stats show improved team shooting percentages and a notable increase in Clark's assist numbers, both of which are clear indicators that teammates are catching and finishing her passes more effectively. I'd suggest watching some of Indiana's games and you'll see the marked improvement from the first few weeks to where they are now.

 

[nwhoopfan]

A. Clark started for Vegas today and Stokes isn't even showing up in the box score w/ "has not entered the game." Was she injured in the last game, or is she out for other reasons?

 

[nwhoopfan]

Anyway Aces bouncing back from their last outing, pulling away from Dallas in the second half. Getting balanced scoring among their starters.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Also balanced assists. 5, 4, 3, 3 and 2 among the starting 5.

 

[tahoma17]

A. Clark started for Vegas today and Stokes isn't even showing up in the box score w/ "has not entered the game." Was she injured in the last game, or is she out for other reasons?

The announcers said she was out with a non-Covid illness

 

[azfan]

Looking at it objectively, it was a great game. But great teams do not routinely lose to teams at the bottom of the standings. This is the Aces' second loss to LA this year and the third in two seasons. It's an issue that needs to be addressed by Becky, but she doesn't know what "accountability" means.

Also, Chicago >>> LA (@bbsamjj). The Sparks are in an awful tier of their own.

As for Aari, she had this to say about her match-up with Kelsey Plum:



Role players talking that talk

I would be MORTIFIED to hear that from an opponent, especially one from a losing team who still isn't established in this league (and yes, I'm still upset that this version of Aari didn't show up with the Dream--we got an inferior model). I mean, we saw this last year against the Liberty in the regular season and Commissioner's Cup, but does Becky really want this to be the narrative of one of her "superstars"?

Haha ha

Two apologies one first for the laughter that prevented me from providing a clear response to the dominative kitty. And second for labeling her a fringe player. While she was a fringe player for her first years in the league she's upped her game and she's pedestrian this year.

In her 110 career games I would guess that she's been a starter less than two dozen times but correct me if I'm wrong. However let's look at the past four games including the overtime victory that prompted her to Crow. Btw .. I was surprised that a diminutive Kittie could Crow

Since this is a team sport and we know the definitive Kitty has a sharp defensive eye we can see that defensive eye may not translate into court vision as they gave up 90 points in their overtime victory to the Aces.(Note I'm not arguing you don't have some defensive issues to address as they gave up 98 to the kitty LED team)

The clawing kitties defense held the Mystics to 82 in a loss, and gave up 90 Plus in their back to back losses to the Liberty.

In these four games opposing guards were really shut down by the kitty and crew

Mysics 16 for 31.. with the noted offensive force Walker Kimbrough 17 points to tie McDonald for game high. Perhaps McDonald's defense was impacted by the all her energy expended on the offensive end.

Liberty (2games)-Kitty really turned it on as Sabrina scored 31 in the first game and 24 in the second. Kitty might have been a little tired, she only scored two in the second game after pouring in 10 in the first.

I'm thinking that the million dollar coach in the dumpster fire that was 118 yesterday should make a deal to bring McDonald's to the merc. I think she shares his defensive philosophy and she'd be super close to go visit those Hangouts down in the dirty t.

 

[cancontent]

A. Clark started for Vegas today and Stokes isn't even showing up in the box score w/ "has not entered the game." Was she injured in the last game, or is she out for other reasons?

Think they said it was due to illness.