May 2024 WNBA Thread, part II | Page 14 | The Boneyard

May 2024 WNBA Thread, part II

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nwhoopfan

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NY pulls it out 81-78. Were up 33-18 early, but trailed by as much as 5.

They took control at the end when they quit jacking 3s and worked the ball inside. Who was it that kept suggesting they should do that?
 

nwhoopfan

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Washington still searching for a win. Atlanta beat them 73-67.
 

nwhoopfan

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Vegas goes on the road and beats Minnesota handily. Big games for Wilson and Young.
 
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Wilson outdueled Collier in a battle between the two MVP frontrunners although at this point it’s abundantly clear to me Collier should’ve gone #1 in 2019 and probably most other years too.
I mean with A’ja in Vegas already I can see with going with Jackie that year but for her to not be a lottery pick is a little crazy.
 
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Wilson outdueled Collier in a battle between the two MVP frontrunners although at this point it’s abundantly clear to me Collier should’ve gone #1 in 2019 and probably most other years too.
But would she have been a fit in Vegas with Laimbeer as head coach? Her landing in Minnesota seems like a fortunate situation to me.
 
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I mean with A’ja in Vegas already I can see with going with Jackie that year but for her to not be a lottery pick is a little crazy.
Yeah, and that’s what I meant more so. Honestly I had forgotten Young and was thinking Arike was the star of that draft class. Young was a worthy #1 in her own right, it’s just wild Collier fell so far in hindsight.
 
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Brondello with a coaching clinic. Doing absolutely nothing as her team wastes one possession after another bricking 3's. Now on a 2-20 streak from deep.
My early season observation about NY Liberty is that they have two fundamental problems: perimeter defense, specifically backcourt and the Coach.....I can't understand why some things are happening with no remedial actions from the coach. Sure, the backbone of the team is a veteran roster with championship pedigree for some but that doesn't mean you don't organize them into what you want them to do.....
 

Dillon77

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I haven’t seen this here, sorry if it’s been posted. Diamond Miller out “indefinitely” after knee aurgery. Evidently she’s had surgery on this knee before, and on the other knee during this past offseason.

Ugh. Not a good trend. Thanks for posting.
 

Dillon77

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The game of the night should be Aces-Lynx, with the Lynx likely to prevail (Vegas is a 4.5-point favorite, but that PG position is a mess, the lack of playable depth is concerning, and the inability to defend the three-point line is infuriating). Hopefully a vet (Odyssey Sims?) gets signed before the Dallas game.
Also, an earlier post from you: "She (Kelsey Plum) has not been the primary option at PG. Jackie has."

From @nwhoopfan :

"So...Vegas is averaging only a little more than 1 ppg less than last year. Young is averaging more assists than Gray did last season and an insane 5:1 A/TO. Plum is averaging a career high in assists w/ a 3:1 A/TO. Methinks someone doth protest too much. And Wilson is by far averaging a career high in points, so she certainly is getting plenty of touches."

Last night's Results:
  • The Las Vegas Aces beat the Minnesota Lynx 80-66 in Minny.
  • A’ja Wilson had 29 points, 15 rebounds and four blocks, Jackie Young added 19 points and 10 assists, and the Las Vegas Aces beat the Minnesota Lynx 80-66 on Wednesday night.
  • Jackie Young wracks up 10 assists (only 2 turnovers) while shooting 7-13 from the field, including 3-5 from three.
Young narrowly missed her fifth straight game with at least 20 points and six assists. She is now leading the WNBA with 8.2 assists per game. Clearly, this is a bravura year thus far for Ms. Young. Can she keep it up?

So, I ask for some constructive, detailed answers from two of our Vegas observers:
  • Is the point guard situation at Vegas "a mess" or perhaps unsustainable over the medium- or long-run?
  • Why, btw, would an Odyssey Sims be the choice for a substitute given the results Young is producing? Or is there someone that could pick up for one of the guard/wing positions? (At this juncture, it would appear Coach Hammons is riding the Kate Martin train in that respect.) Maybe the front office will see if a suitable vet becomes available as the season progresses.
  • The depth issue is one that seems to be ongoing with the Aces. Will the Aces fill the hole opened by cutting Fair? Or is Hammons just going with what she (perceives) she has? (As in, "it is what it is.")
It's a bit worrisome given that this the core of the Aces won't really get much rest because Wilson, Young, Plum (and maybe Gray) look like they'll be playing in Paris. On the other hand, maybe Chelsea will reappear.

Look forward to a constructive conversation continuing. Thanks for your consideration.
 
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Young narrowly missed her fifth straight game with at least 20 points and six assists. She is now leading the WNBA with 8.2 assists per game. Clearly, this is a bravura year thus far for Ms. Young. Can she keep it up?

So, I ask for some constructive, detailed answers from two of our Vegas observers:
  • Is the point guard situation at Vegas "a mess" or perhaps unsustainable over the medium- or long-run?
  • Why, btw, would an Odyssey Sims be the choice for a substitute given the results Young is producing? Or is there someone that could pick up for one of the guard/wing positions? (At this juncture, it would appear Coach Hammons is riding the Kate Martin train in that respect.) Maybe the front office will see if a suitable vet becomes available as the season progresses.
  • The depth issue is one that seems to be ongoing with the Aces. Will the Aces fill the hole opened by cutting Fair? Or is Hammons just going with what she (perceives) she has? (As in, "it is what it is.")
It's a bit worrisome given that this the core of the Aces won't really get much rest because Wilson, Young, Plum (and maybe Gray) look like they'll be playing in Paris. On the other hand, maybe Chelsea will reappear.

Look forward to a constructive conversation continuing. Thanks for your consideration.
1. I think the point guard situation is leaning more towards unsustainable. Jackie has done an amazing job so far, but it's a lot to ask her to run the offense, limit turnovers, guard the best backcourt threat, score 20 a game efficiently and play 35+ minutes a game. That's not fair to her and doesn't feel like a winning strategy long term.

2. I think Odyssey makes sense, especially if Gray is out for at least 2 or more weeks which feels likely at this rate. Sims is a defensive minded guard with experience playing the point so I get why some want her. Just 10 minutes a game from a player like her could make all the difference to me.

3. I definitely think they waived Fair to bring someone else in. So at least one more person like an Odyssey will fill that role. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Vegas picks someone else up and waive Emma Cannon as well.

Vegas is kinda in a tough spot right now. If they can survive and get healthy with the right additions they could actually still have a shot a decent depth.
 
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Honestly, I think Jackie Young should be the frontrunner for league MVP right now. She has produced some eye-opening stats so far. If she keeps it up, I think she runs away with the award.
 
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The Mercury will get healthy on offense in New York. Sandy doesn't seem to have any idea how to coach this year.
The Liberty have looked terrible the last 2 games.
Sabrina, Laney, and Jones have been really bad, and the bench is a disaster.
I'd say both those comments describe the Mercury. While the 3rd of the 4 road games posed a challenge for the Mercury and for a portion of the game they made a valiant effort they demonstrated their true and competence and complete inability to close as well as a culture of losing in the fourth quarter.

With 8 minutes left in the game the Mercury take a five-point lead. Based on what we'd seen in the previous three quarters and 2 minutes one would have to be optimistic. .. unless you're Mercury fan. The Liberty score the next nine points to take the lead and in a back and forth in which they Mercury tied the game a series of turnovers and head scratching shots insured that they would once again lose.

On the clueless range of coaching there's no doubt that the million dollar coach from the valley of the sun wins hands down.
 
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I'd say both those comments describe the Mercury. While the 3rd of the 4 road games posed a challenge for the Mercury and for a portion of the game they made a valiant effort they demonstrated their true and competence and complete inability to close as well as a culture of losing in the fourth quarter.

With 8 minutes left in the game the Mercury take a five-point lead. Based on what we'd seen in the previous three quarters and 2 minutes one would have to be optimistic. .. unless you're Mercury fan. The Liberty score the next nine points to take the lead and in a back and forth in which they Mercury tied the game a series of turnovers and head scratching shots insured that they would once again lose.

On the clueless range of coaching there's no doubt that the million dollar coach from the valley of the sun wins hands down.

You're definitely not the leader of the Matt Ishiba fan club, but I understand why. His decisions, save for investing in the facility for the team have been mind boggling.
 
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Vegas is kinda in a tough spot right now. If they can survive and get healthy with the right additions they could actually still have a shot a decent depth.
Hmmm .. every team should be in such a tough spot. Aces looked pretty good against an outstanding Minnesota team on the road. Game in complete control by the Aces las they lead from 3 minute Mark in the first quarter for the remainder of the game and I thought looked every bit as good as the Sun.
 
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You're definitely not the leader of the Matt Ishiba fan club, but I understand why. His decisions, save for investing in the facility for the team have been mind boggling.
Right? Look at what he did with the Suns in terms of roster construction and tying up all the assets in the big three. I think Brian Windhorst did a nice analysis of the complete lack of flexibility and inability to improve that roster. The Brad Beal ransaction may end up ranking in the top 10 of idiotic deals

Pretty much the same thing with the Mercury. So the owner is willing to invest money it's just he doesn't know how to spend it and it really does appear that his management hiring reflects equally questionable judgment.
 
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If she doesn't get Sabrina in line, and fix the problems with Laney she might be gone before then. The bench is terrible, Sabally is wasted money. She might be athletic, but has no basketball IQ.
?

Coaches on the hot seat....Quinn and the million dollar coach in the valley of the sun. The Liberty are second in the league in points allowed and while they clearly have been inconsistent I would scratch my head about firing a coach who's performed like Sandy. But then again it is New York.
 
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The game of the night should be Aces-Lynx, with the Lynx likely to prevail (Vegas is a 4.5-point favorite, but that PG position is a mess, the lack of playable depth is concerning, and the inability to defend the three-point line is infuriating). Hopefully a vet (Odyssey Sims?) gets signed before the Dallas game.
The wisdom of crowds.
 
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Hmmm .. every team should be in such a tough spot. Aces looked pretty good against an outstanding Minnesota team on the road. Game in complete control by the Aces las they lead from 3 minute Mark in the first quarter for the remainder of the game and I thought looked every bit as good as the Sun.
Well I mean sure they are doing good now but it's not exactly what you're looking for as a team with championship or busts aspirations. The core 3 are expected to play 35 minutes a game and to score 20 a piece to win games. The bench is shorten and two of the best anticipated bench contributors are now in the starting lineup.

Compared to the league a a whole, Vegas is doing great. Speaking as someone with interest in Vegas winning it all there as definite concerns. In my opinion we lack the defense and depth the Sun has.
 

Bigboote

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Well I mean sure they are doing good now but it's not exactly what you're looking for as a team with championship or busts aspirations. The core 3 are expected to play 35 minutes a game and to score 20 a piece to win games. The bench is shorten and two of the best anticipated bench contributors are now in the starting lineup.

Compared to the league a a whole, Vegas is doing great. Speaking as someone with interest in Vegas winning it all there as definite concerns. In my opinion we lack the defense and depth the Sun has.
And who saw Kate Martin getting 20 minutes a game for the Aces? I'm a huge fan of hers, and I sure didn't. I was mildly surprised to see her on the opening-day roster, but Hammon made a brilliant move there.
 

WBBTakeover

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1. I think the point guard situation is leaning more towards unsustainable. Jackie has done an amazing job so far, but it's a lot to ask her to run the offense, limit turnovers, guard the best backcourt threat, score 20 a game efficiently and play 35+ minutes a game. That's not fair to her and doesn't feel like a winning strategy long term.

2. I think Odyssey makes sense, especially if Gray is out for at least 2 or more weeks which feels likely at this rate. Sims is a defensive minded guard with experience playing the point so I get why some want her. Just 10 minutes a game from a player like her could make all the difference to me.

3. I definitely think they waived Fair to bring someone else in. So at least one more person like an Odyssey will fill that role. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Vegas picks someone else up and waive Emma Cannon as well.

Vegas is kinda in a tough spot right now. If they can survive and get healthy with the right additions they could actually still have a shot a decent depth.
This post captures my thoughts perfectly, so I won't add too much (or maybe I will :p ).

This next part is not directed at you, @GCKSFN4L: I will say that PG play isn't just about assists and turnovers. A player can make a bad pass (e.g., a pass at the end of the shot clock/bailout pass) that her teammate just happens to score on. It counts as an assist on the score sheet, but you're not given any other context than that. I'm not saying that Jackie hasn't been giving it her all (she has) and excelling as a player (she has--it's clear that she's been the second-best player in on the team this season and maybe for longer than that). I commend her for making the sacrifice for the betterment of the team. But having a PG who can dictate tempo and get the ball where it needs to be far more often than not is invaluable. There are things that Chelsea does that are not quantifiable by assist/turnover stats, and we need to be mindful of that when discussing her impact on this team. The offense can still function to a degree, but it looks chaotic when Chelsea isn't running it. It's less efficient and does not unlock all of the pieces. I would expect a player like Megan Gustafson to look much better playing next to an actual PG.

So yes, kudos to Jackie (and Kelsey) for doing what they can while playing out of position. But they are not Chelsea Gray by any stretch of the imagination. They do not dictate tempo like she does. They do not have the shot/pass balance that she has (nobody does, but most PGs in the league have some semblance of balance that makes them more suitable for the position than our current healthy guards). They don't lead defensively like she does (Jackie is a better defender, for sure--but not a better leader defensively). They can't diagnose defenses on the fly like she can. They're also not clutch shooters like she's shown herself to be since the second part of that 2022 season.

It does a PG like Chelsea a major disservice when we simply measure PG play by assists (and turnovers). Alyssa Thomas is a high-assist player. So is Courtney Vandersloot. I would not be happy with either player running PG long-term for the Aces.

tl;dr: PG play is about more than just assists and turnovers. Chelsea plays the position better than anyone else on the team (and in the league) by far.

Re sustainability--I kinda worry about the mileage that the "Core Four" are putting on this season. They want to make the 5x5 Olympic Team (though I know that maybe two of them, at most, would start). That entails more games + more travel. They want to compete in and win the Commissioner's Cup. That means they'll have to make sure they go 5-0 in those CC games in June and win the Commissioner's Cup game.

With more depth, however, I'd worry less. Becky is doing a fantastic job of building depth at the wing position with Kate. But until Chelsea returns, the team is one guard short. That's where a vet like Odyssey Sims (who can do some of the things that Chelsea does with respect to distributing and dictating tempo) would help. I agree that they'll need to get rid of Emma Cannon at some point so that they can bring in a big who can provide playable depth and/or size.
 
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WBBTakeover

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Honestly, I think Jackie Young should be the frontrunner for league MVP right now. She has produced some eye-opening stats so far. If she keeps it up, I think she runs away with the award.
She's done well overall, for sure.

But if A'ja produces anything close to 25 ppg and 10 rpg (she's currently at 26 ppg and 13 rpg) for a Top 2 or 3 team, the award will be hers and hers alone.
 
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