Maryland is subpoenaing the world

[billybud]

Oh my god! Lacrosse!

Rutgers is a giant. Why didn't I know?

 

[Adios]

In media contract money terms? about 80% of the ACC ESPN monies. Basketball and other make up 20%.

http://www.tigernet.com/story/footb...gnment-ACC-TV-contract-college-football-10633

Very long term? I'd have to say viewership of other sports will inevitably pick up.

 

[NickyNewark]

BB seem's phony just a smartazz FlaSt booster with no sense but St.Stimpy ring's like an ACC plant.....smooth for the most part...too self assured for a VA booster who at best are middle to lower tier of the ACC buzz wise in the major sport's(yes I know their BB team is ranked this yr) and arrogantly unflappable. He's all about the Directors Cup probably cause it suits his purpose!! Then again what do we know in comparison to him as boosters of major NE university's?

 

[NickyNewark]

Oh my god! Lacrosse!

Rutgers is a giant. Why didn't I know?

Have another drink whydontcha?You and stimp came together why don't you leave together?

 

[NickyNewark]

Oh my god! Lacrosse!

Rutgers is a giant. Why didn't I know?

Maybe not but were in a better conference than you......

 

[billybud]

Can't take the heat Nicky?

After attempting to plump up Rutger's lacrosse like a spinster beating an old lumpy pillow?

Well, my syntax challenged, punctuation ambivalent friend, .

Your leaving would leave indeed a void on the board that mine would not...not in intelligent conversation, but certainly in comedic relief which is sorely needed from time to time.

 

[billybud]

Nicky...FSU is FSU.

Conference shmonference. Rutgers is, well, Rutgers.

 

[justinslot]

But why wouldn't you pick Louisville for athletics...a national champion in basketball, a BCS bowl winner, a college world series team..

Sure, UConn can sniff about doing better in a brain bowl...but Louisville is much better then UConn of late in basketball, football, and baseball.

Your original comment that drew fire was that the B1G picking Rutgers over UConn was at least as egregious as the ACC picking Louisville over UConn, despite there being no evidence that the B1G picked Rutgers over UConn or that UConn was even under serious consideration by the B1G, while we have ample evidence that the ACC's choice was between UConn and Louisville.

Here you are shifting the argument to why it did, in fact, make sense for the ACC to pick Louisville over UConn, and it's entirely based on short term thinking--Louisville is hot right now. And I mean I agree, the UL > UConn choice was entirely based on short term thinking by a nervous, scared league that had just been raided, so a questionable choice is understandable, if not an actual good decision.

 

[NickyNewark]

Can't take the heat Nicky?

After attempting to plump up Rutger's lacrosse like a spinster beating an old lumpy pillow?

Well, my syntax challenged, punctuation ambivalent friend, .

Your leaving would leave indeed a void on the board that mine would not...not in intelligent conversation, but certainly in comedic relief which is sorely needed from time to time.

Funny BB.... just recently I found an old flame I lost touch with in 1980 though sheer quirky coincidence and in coming here to see you're doing tha ACC samo samo I wondered what I could gain listening to you're garbage or spend some quality time with my 49 yr old lost GF? Who do you think won Einstein? If FSU's so great what do you bother coming here for? To gloat?BTW,hows Dook and SU doing?How about Mercer C? I rest my case hillbilly.

 

[NickyNewark]

Can't take the heat Nicky?

After attempting to plump up Rutger's lacrosse like a spinster beating an old lumpy pillow?

Well, my syntax challenged, punctuation ambivalent friend, .

Your leaving would leave indeed a void on the board that mine would not...not in intelligent conversation, but certainly in comedic relief which is sorely needed from time to time.

Fluff up? Heat...ha ha ha ha ha....you need a break from the message boards if you're looking for mensa canditates here in a place where you consider us like a " bunch of guys in a bar talking sports"(you're words)....btw what the heck are you concerned about my syntax for ? What do you think you are.. Professor of the BY?

 

[NickyNewark]

Your original comment that drew fire was that the B1G picking Rutgers over UConn was at least as egregious as the ACC picking Louisville over UConn, despite there being no evidence that the B1G picked Rutgers over UConn or that UConn was even under serious consideration by the B1G, while we have ample evidence that the ACC's choice was between UConn and Louisville.

Here you are shifting the argument to why it did, in fact, make sense for the ACC to pick Louisville over UConn, and it's entirely based on short term thinking--Louisville is hot right now. And I mean I agree, the UL > UConn choice was entirely based on short term thinking by a nervous, scared league that had just been raided, so a questionable choice is understandable, if not an actual good decision.

He's an arrogant buffoon who always changes direction under fire to avoid being exposed as a fraud.

 

[NickyNewark]

Nicky...FSU is FSU.

Conference shmonference. Rutgers is, well, Rutgers.

And what's this have to do with UConn here? What a fraud!!

 

[NickyNewark]

Nicky...FSU is FSU.

Conference shmonference. Rutgers is, well, Rutgers.

Whats FSU's excuse been then in FB excepting this yr never achieving with ton's of talent? Well their just FSU always looking up at UF or should I say ?

 

[SAMCRO]

But why wouldn't you pick Louisville for athletics...a national champion in basketball, a BCS bowl winner, a college world series team..

Sure, UConn can sniff about doing better in a brain bowl...but Louisville is much better then UConn of late in basketball, football, and baseball.

You make it sound as if the 2 schools are worlds apart in athletics. Except for the facts that UConn and UL are .500 head to head in FB since they both joined the BE/AAC (little nugget for you since on field results is the driver for who should be selected...UConn has a better head to head record against SU, Pitt, and .500 v UL in FB, and in BB only UL comes remotely close to UConn). UConn won their 3rd NC in hoops over a 12 year period in '11, UL won their 3rd over a 34 year period in '13, UL made the CWS a couple years back, around same time UConn was in a Super Regional losing to eventual NC USCe, UConn has won national titles in multiple sports over the last few years,. So other than that, you're right, UL is far superior on spor........never mind.

But hey, UL had a great 2012 season, and was red hot when the ACC needed a team.

 

[billybud]

I, maybe due to my location and interests, never had a clue that the B1G was considering Rutgers until the deed was imminent.

One would think that if UConn was AAU...they would have been a viable candidate for the Big Ten, offering better sports then Rutgers and still offering access to NY (from what I've read on this board).

Louisville was, at the time of ACC acquisition, in a good place. Football, basketball, and baseball were perking at a high level. The ESPN viewer numbers for Louisville were good. They were not another northeastern team (a plus as far as Clemson and FSU were concerned). And they were a somewhat familiar face having played in the Metro Conference with FSU.

If you were a southern ACC program, desperately wanting to augment the football presence, Louisville looked to be a good pick.

 

[Sea Goat]

Bud's buds at FSU apparently wanted the hot football property, Louisville, at the time. As I've stated ad nauseam here, the ACC sold a piece of its soul in taking them. In addition, there were lingering resentments motivating Bf...ingC and fresh jealousies motivating Syraf... that harmed us.

Re: the B1G, we still need AAU status - while we have a superior institution to many of those schools that are members, we need that ticket. We are on our way to getting it, so the B1G is our best hope. While we would jump at the opportunity to go to the ACC, I believe that conference has become a P-5 version of Yugoslavia - initially strong and vital in appearance, but destined to blow up over significant cultural differences . Wait...

 

[billybud]

You may be right about cultural differences in a geographically spread conference.

Baseball is an important sport to the southern ACC schools and fans.

Baseball does not seem to do as well where the springs are cold....

 

[billybud]

On an aside...I've never seen Georgetown play.

Tomorrow night I'll wander across town to the Tucker Center and watch the GT-FSU game. First BB game that I will have attended this year.

 

[NHUConnfan]

You may be right about cultural differences in a geographically spread conference.

Baseball is an important sport to the southern ACC schools and fans.

Baseball does not seem to do as well where the springs are cold....

Really, cause Indiana would like to say otherwise...

 

[billybud]

Really, cause Indiana would like to say otherwise...

I guess it is perspective...In its greatest baseball season ever, Indiana made its only appearance in a CWS last year. A very rare appearance. But they were good last year.

There will be outliers pop up...I mean BC had a run of four in the 60's, Seton Hall had a run of four in the 70's, Maine was great in the 80's with a run of five appearances.

 

[Pat125]

Section IV-5, “Withdrawal of Members”

To withdraw from the conference a member must file an official notice of withdrawal with each of the conference members and the commissioner on or before August 15 for the withdrawal to be effective June 30 of the following year.

Upon official notice of withdrawal, the member will be subject to a withdrawal payment, as liquidated damages, in an amount equal to three times the total operating budget of the Conference (including any contingency included therein), approved in accordance with Section V-1 of the Conference Bylaws, which is in effect as of the date of the official notice of withdrawal.

The Conference may offset the amount of such payment against any distributions otherwise due such member for any Conference year. Any remaining amount due shall be paid by the withdrawing member within 30 days after the effective date of withdrawal. The withdrawing member shall have no claim on the assets, accounts or income of the Conference.

This is from the bylaws in question. But I'll concede the ACC had a similar manner of grabbing the exit fee before this. As such, Maryland would have been stupid to pay the ACC $20 million upfront. The ACC would have extorted over $40 million by now. When the ACC passed the $20 million mark, they didn't send a paid in full notice. It's clear Swofford had no intention of accepting $20 million.

 

[pj]

Here you are shifting the argument to why it did, in fact, make sense for the ACC to pick Louisville over UConn, and it's entirely based on short term thinking--Louisville is hot right now. And I mean I agree, the UL > UConn choice was entirely based on short term thinking by a nervous, scared league that had just been raided, so a questionable choice is understandable, if not an actual good decision.

Although ACC fans like to claim that Louisville was picked by a panel of ACC presidents, ADs, and conference commissioner John Swofford, it was actually chosen by a panel of teenage girls. They were attracted to whichever school seemed to be in most demand at that moment. Louisville was rumored to be a target of the B12 and UConn was not rumored to be in play. The pleasure of one-upping the B12 was irresistible to the ACC.

But sometimes, when you choose a mate because of who's attractive to someone else rather than who's best for you, you rue your choice. Louisville was hot. But will they be a good provider in the long run? Marriage is for a lifetime.

 

[B1GALUM]

Your original comment that drew fire was that the B1G picking Rutgers over UConn was at least as egregious as the ACC picking Louisville over UConn, despite there being no evidence that the B1G picked Rutgers over UConn or that UConn was even under serious consideration by the B1G, while we have ample evidence that the ACC's choice was between UConn and Louisville.

There is one article that suggests UConn was a part of the conversation among Delany and B1G athletic directors as the B1G considered East Coast expansion. It is buried in the article that explored Maryland's move to the B1G.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...5da16c-3fd0-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html
"Some Big Ten athletic directors believed Delany grew wary that the ACC would move to grab Rutgers and Connecticut, two Big East schools who provided some semblance of an entry into the New York media market, an unclaimed territory for college sports."

This quote does not contradict your statement. It does not indicate Rutgers and UConn were in competition for a spot in the B1G nor does it indicate how much consideration was given to UConn during the recent expansion. However, I think the mention of UConn in this article and in the context UConn is mentioned suggests the B1G has at least given consideration to the university as an expansion candidate. The challenge for UConn is that the university is a later entrant to the B1G expansion conversation. Once the B1G decided to move further to the East Coast, then Rutgers and Maryland were already in line for an invitation.

Rutgers has been mentioned as a potential B1G expansion candidate since 1993.
"However, the latest conjecture has the Big 10 taking Kansas and Missouri in the West, and Rutgers as an Eastern partner for Penn State. That would swell the Big 10 to 14 schools."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ommissioner-jim-delany-big-southwest-missouri
Maryland has at least been considered a B1G expansion candidate since 2010.
“I remember Maryland coming up as a topic of conversation going back to when I started,” said Michigan Athletic Director Dave Brandon, the former CEO of Domino’s Pizza, who took his job at the start of 2010."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...5da16c-3fd0-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html

Having said that, I think UConn would still be considered an expansion candidate if the B1G decides to purse additional East Coast expansion. The most significant challenge right now is the lack of an obvious 16th university to pair with UConn rather than lack of AAU status in my opinion.

 

[dayooper]

I, maybe due to my location and interests, never had a clue that the B1G was considering Rutgers until the deed was imminent.

One would think that if UConn was a AAU...they would have been a viable candidate for the Big Ten offering better sports then Rutgers and still offering access to NY (from what I've read on this board).

Louisville was, at the time of ACC acquisition, in a good place. Football, basketball, and baseball were perking at a high level. The ESPN viewer numbers for Louisville were good. They were not another northeastern team (a plus as far as Clemson and FSU's were concerned). And they were a somewhat familiar face having played in the Metro Conference with FSU.

If you were a southern ACC program, desperately needing to augment the football presence, Louisville looked to be a good pick.

They had been looking at Rutgers before Nebraska was added. Many teams that showed interest at the time were looked at: Nebraska, Rutgers, Mizzou, UConn, Syracuse, ext. Some that didn't show any were looked at as well (Maryland, UNC, GTU, Virginia, ect.). Many of these schools were vetted at that time by the Presidents. I'm sure there were some that were looked at that we will never know. Rutgers had always ranked highly by the Big 10 for market presence and population. You have to remember, it's not just cable subscribers conferences are looking at, it's the entire media package. The main money maker is the tier 1 programming. The several million from the BTN pales in comparison to the media package they will get from ESPN/Fox/Comcast-NBC/CBS, and that will always be there. The over air networks are going no where (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox). That's where the majority of the top watched games are shown. When was the last time UM/OSU, Texas/Oklahoma, Alabama/Auburn was on ESPN. No, it was on ABC or CBS.

I know much is said about the declining population (only Michigan and Ohio are losing residents, and that's at a very slow rate), but it's still one of the most populated areas in the US. The Big 10 still has the flagship schools in 4 of the 10 most populous states (Illinois, Pennsylvania. Ohio, Michigan). No other conference can say that. The SEC has 3 (Florida, Georgia, and Texas A&M) The Big12 has 1 (Texas), ACC, including FSU as a flagship, has 2 (FSU and UNC), Pac has UCLA and UC-Berkely. Why are flagship schools important? Money, of course. Flagship schools equal more alumni. More alumni equal more viewers. Who are the fans that are most likely to stick through thick and thin? Alumni. Take a look at the downtrodden football programs like Minnesota and Indiana. Their stadium attendance would rank them 7th and 8th in the ACC, ahead of schools like Syracuse, Pitt, BC (and yes, Maryland). In fact, the perennial whipping boy of Conference Realignment, Rutgers, would rank 6th in the ACC and only an average of 800 fans less than Louisville! More alumni means more lifelong fans.

You all have to look at why teams like Maryland and Rutgers were added, and it's more than cable boxes. It's about getting the Big10 schools brands in populated areas. In another thread, there was a great discussion on academic ranking and such. Getting those schools in the culture of highly populated and emerging areas is huge. Why do schools want to win national championships? To increase the brand of their schools. Alabama had a very large uptick in applicants on a national scale after they won their MNC. The teams are advertisements for their schools. Why else would they spend the money they do on big time athletics. They could go the D2 or D3 route and not push the athletics out there. I played D2 football in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and we were followed by the residents of the area, but in no way were we even a state followed program. Most residents of Michigan had no clue we even existed as a football program. Due to the high profile of their sports teams, Michigan, OSU, and PSU are national academic brands. Getting the brand of the other Big10 schools into different areas means more potential highly coveted students. Why did ND want to have the deal with the Big East followed by the ACC? Look where a majority of their students come from: The Mid Atlantic and North East. Why so you think The ACC brought in 'Cuse and BC? Getting the ACC brand into new areas where they could use their sports as advertisements for their universities.

Sports programs come and go. Every "King" or "Blueblood" has gone through very tough periods. My team, Michigan is going through one right now. Since 2006, when they were one game away from the National Championship game, it has been a rough trek. Will they ever become a power again? I really don't know. I do know that Alabama was horrible until Saban came in. What will they be when he finally leaves? How has UCLA been in recent years? Indiana? UNC is going through a rough period the past couple of years. So has Kentucky. Yet, the main purpose of a school is to educate and for many, it's to educate the best and brightest. The academics never go away. Trying to attract the best and brightest from all over the country is a very important thing for the top ranked schools (which many in the Big10 and ACC are). Considering how many great students come from the region, the Big10, getting schools in the NYC/NJ (NJ is the 11th most populated state) and the Mid-Atlantic could very well be a boon for their academics. My guess is that if/when the Big10 expands again, UConn, if available, will be one of the invitees.

 

[buddy]

I think that's an awesome idea! Don't just jump in with Maryland's lawsuit - start one of your own with conference mates Cincy and USF. UCONN can spearhead the lawsuit and make sure it is filed in the state of CT. I am sure Blumenthal can point you in the right direction as far as the people you want to talk to in the CT AG's office. Best of luck!

For once I agree with you Boston. CT getting involved with a lawsuit here would be the dumbest thing that they could do. Would guarantee 20 years in the AAC. CT needs to keep it's mouth shut here. The CR cycle will restart soon.

 

[pj]

By every B1G criterion except athletic success -- AAU, size of university, size of home state, contiguity, proximity to B1G alumni and a large media market -- Rutgers beats UConn. So too with Maryland, by B1G criteria a better add. Indeed, the Rutgers and Maryland additions are good for us, they increase the B1G's interest in the east coast and in Rutgers add a rival from a (functionally) contiguous state, thus making UConn a much more attractive candidate in future expansions.

The ACC on the other hand has repeatedly raided the Big East and repeatedly chosen schools we regard as lesser institutions than us on one or more, in a few cases all, of the major criteria -- athletic, academic, and financial potential given the size of their markets and fan bases. This didn't happen just once, but many times -- Miami, Va Tech, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Notre Dame. Moreover, the ACC conducted the raids in partnership with ESPN and the raids were coordinated with ESPN - Big East TV negotiations. There were many hints of underhanded dealings; for example, Pitt led the opposition to the Big East ESPN TV contract and then soon afterward bolted for the ACC - were they in cahoots with the ACC and possibly ESPN? There were many reports of hostility to UConn by ACC schools - BC notably, the northern privates seem to fear UConn but also the southern football schools have seemed hostile to northern schools generally.

A few years ago UConn fans had a great deal of goodwill and respect for the ACC, enjoyed playing ACC teams, watched the ACC more than any other conference except the Big East, and could see ourselves joining it with pleasure. But now, after repeated snubs, more or less openly expressed hostility, infliction of significant damage to our university's standing and finances, and underhanded and possibly tortious dealings by many of the ACC's schools and their TV network, it is not only rational but right for us to be outraged at the ACC and many of its schools.

We still like and respect the UNC/UVa/Duke/Wake group, but no one should be surprised that we now feel more attracted to the B1G, especially since our most natural rival, Rutgers, is now there, and we are growing the university into more of a B1G large public flagship profile. Though it will take some getting used to, culturally it feels like a fit we can grow into and be happy with, and that the B1G conference mates would be happy with too after they got to know us.

 

[pj]

For once I agree with you Boston. CT getting involved with a lawsuit here would be the dumbest thing that they could do. Would guarantee 20 years in the AAC. CT needs to keep it's mouth shut here. The CR cycle will restart soon.

If the P5 try to break away and totally freeze the AAC out, then I think an antitrust lawsuit is warranted. But I agree, it is a last resort.

 

[B1GALUM]

I, maybe due to my location and interests, never had a clue that the B1G was considering Rutgers until the deed was imminent.

One would think that if UConn was AAU...they would have been a viable candidate for the Big Ten, offering better sports then Rutgers and still offering access to NY (from what I've read on this board).

Louisville was, at the time of ACC acquisition, in a good place. Football, basketball, and baseball were perking at a high level. The ESPN viewer numbers for Louisville were good. They were not another northeastern team (a plus as far as Clemson and FSU were concerned). And they were a somewhat familiar face having played in the Metro Conference with FSU.

If you were a southern ACC program, desperately wanting to augment the football presence, Louisville looked to be a good pick.

I understand your perspective on Louisville; however, I am curious why the ACC did not make a more significant move before Maryland left and while Syracuse and Pitt were being considered for membership and Louisville was not yet in the conversation.

Why not invite Rutgers and UConn along with Syracuse and Pitt? I understand this would not appease the southernmost ACC schools and make BC unhappy. However, it really could have been the next move in a larger acquisition rather than the end game.

With Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn no longer in play, the Big Ten has nowhere along the East Coast to expand. Perhaps Maryland still would be a consideration; however, they would have been a 13th school without a 14th school available making a move to the Big Ten less likely to happen.

We know that Penn State is an eastern outlier in the Big Ten and there was concern, based on comments from ADs Alvarez and Smith, that Penn State might reconsider their membership in the Big Ten given this situation. Given the presence of all their regional rivals - Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers - now in the ACC and no other East Coast partners for the Big Ten to offer Penn State, perhaps that is enough to entice Penn State to the ACC?

If Penn State goes to the ACC in this scenario, then perhaps the ACC can hit the grand slam and entice Notre Dame to join full time as the 18th school and partner to Penn State as the 17th school. Regardless a 16 team ACC with the addition of Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn along with retention of Maryland would be a fantastic conference and leave open the option to entice national brands to join.

 

[pj]

I understand your perspective on Louisville; however, I am curious why the ACC did not make a more significant move before Maryland left and while Syracuse and Pitt were being considered for membership and Louisville was not yet in the conversation.

Why not invite Rutgers and UConn along with Syracuse and Pitt? I understand this would not appease the southernmost ACC schools and make BC unhappy. However, it really could have been the next move in a larger acquisition rather than the end game.

With Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn no longer in play, the Big Ten has nowhere along the East Coast to expand. Perhaps Maryland still would be a consideration; however, they would have been a 13th school without a 14th school available making a move to the Big Ten less likely to happen.

We know that Penn State is an eastern outlier in the Big Ten and there was concern, based on comments from ADs Alvarez and Smith, that Penn State might reconsider their membership in the Big Ten given this situation. Given the presence of all their regional rivals - Maryland, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers - now in the ACC and no other East Coast partners for the Big Ten to offer Penn State, perhaps that is enough to entice Penn State to the ACC?

If Penn State goes to the ACC in this scenario, then perhaps the ACC can hit the grand slam and entice Notre Dame to join full time as the 18th school and partner to Penn State as the 17th school. Regardless a 16 team ACC with the addition of Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers and UConn along with retention of Maryland would be a fantastic conference and leave open the option to entice national brands to join.

This is the great mystery, strategically the ACC look like dolts for chasing B12 targets outside their Atlantic Coast territory while leaving open B1G targets within their primary market area.

The only rational answer is that they knew Rutgers was unavailable and ticketed for the B1G.

That leaves open why they didn't take UConn, the only other east coast school the B1G could consider. Maybe they didn't think the B1G would take UConn due to AAU issues. I think they were just being reactive, they got played by FSU and Clemson threatening to leave for the B12, and FSU and Clemson wanted a more southern football oriented conference even if it sacrificed the conference's strategic standing in the northeast and long-term finances. They based their decision entirely on how to strengthen the ACC vis-a-vis the B12 and Louisville both helped the ACC football/southern branding and damaged the B12's ability to grow.

 

[btstimpy]

WTF is that supposed to prove?? L'ville creamed RU therefor they deserve above UConn the invite?RU had packed it in....wrote this season off and even done better than expected. Everyone knows a bad team got worse after EJ had to start from scratch with a patchwork team and no recruits yet after the Mike Rice incident.what is with you and RU?? I'd love to meet you to talk someday about you're arrogant disdain for RU? Louisville is another of you're darling school's it seem's!! Alway's with the snobby Va attitude ticks me off !! BTW Stimp isn't RU's mens Lax team playing Denver tonight and aren't they now ranked (RU)in Lax?

Are you seriously trying to promote Rutgers as a Lacrosse power? Seriously? Don't you mean Princeton? I'm confused.
We're talking about college athletics here. And some keep wanting to talk about academics. That's a side conversation. Rutgers has not been relevant in college athletics of any kind in over half a century. I'm not worried about Rutgers Lacrosse cracking the seal. Billybud is correct. The UConn fans have a much bigger gripe with the Big Ten for taking Rutgers than the ACC taking Louisville. Again, did you watch the Louisville Rutgers men's basketball game? It is the epitome of Rutgers athletics in the Big Ten. Fun fun!