Maryland beats Notre Dame

[DefenseBB]

I have to disagree with my two respected and fine colleagues @oldude and @BobbyJ as I actually think Coach Ivey has done a remarkable job turning the roster MM left around and I highly doubt MM would have won last night as that roster would have been radically different had MM stayed. Unless I have missed it, what top players has Duffy recruited to Marquette? While I like Duffy a lot (ask @Dillon77 as he knows my feelings) she is still utilizing Caroline Kieger’s players quite a bit for her success.

Niele has this team playing fairly well and has top recruits coming in and when compared to her new coaching lot of P5 Kara, Kellie, Lyndsey and even Courtney, I would pick Niele every time. She can recruit, use X‘s and O’s and has actually admonished both Mabry and Miles over boorish behavior which MM never did. Plus Niele actually compliments other teams and players.
I also politely disagree with @Bigpetunia About ND never “losing a game” as MM always said her teams “lost” the game and the “other team” never won the game as that would indicate the other team was better and MM would never, ever acknowledg that.

 

[oldude]

I have to disagree with my to respected and fine colleagues @oldude and @BobbyJ as I actually think Coach Ivey has done a remarkable job turning the roster MM left around and I highly doubt MM would have won last night as that roster would have been radically different had MM stayed. Unless I have missed it, what top players has Duffy recruited to Marquette? While I like Duffy a lot (ask @Dillon77 as he knows my feelings) she is still utilizing Caroline Kieger’s players quite a bit for her success.

Niele has this team playing fairly well and has top recruits coming in and when compared to her new coaching lot of P5 Kara, Kellie, Lyndsey and even Courtney, I would pick Niele every time. She can recruit, use X‘s and O’s and has actually admonished both Mabry and Miles over boorish behavior which MM never did. Plus Niele actually compliments other teams and players.
I also politely disagree with @Bigpetunia About ND never “losing a game” as MM always said her teams “lost” the game and the “other team” never won the game as that would indicate the other team was better and MM would never, ever acknowledg that.

While acknowledging that your argument has merit, here is what I witnessed. ND’s execution down the stretch in crunch time was shaky at best, at both ends of the court. MM’s teams frequently made the plays they needed to win games like the one against MD.

The other point that I respectfully disagree with you on relates to Coach Ivey’s recruiting at ND, which is a serious bone of contention with many Domers on McGraw’s Bench and elsewhere. This is Coach Ivey’s 3rd season at ND. In her first, she held onto Miles & Citron, two excellent recruits who were largely recruited to ND when MM was still the HC. Last year Ivey secured a very talented player in Bransford, but that was it.

Ivey has 3 top 25 recruits signed for next year, so we’ll see how that works out. But in the meantime, ND has had to fill up their roster with transfers and walk-ons, something no one at ND expected when Ivey was first hired and praised for being an excellent recruiter.

 

[UcMiami]

Duffy recruiting at Marquette vs. Ivey at ND is an unfair comparison - the schools have radically different national profiles. The name ND opens many more doors.

That said Ivey has done well with what was sort of a dumpster fire when MM left. I haven't liked the early schedule ND has played this year and I think that hurt the team in the first challenge of the year. A little competition helps a team get ready for facing adversity in a game.

I think Uconn will have their hands full against ND and really hope the foul calls don't mount as I think Uconn could be challenged if they do. Until Dorka gets back and Caroline has strung together a few good games Uconn is short handed.

 

[oldude]

So MM never lost a close game? 15 years as an Assistant isn't working your way up and earning it? She has her team ranked, and she's a lightyears better recruiter.

Respectfully, MM left ND in shambles.

Not suggesting that MM never lost a close game. I’m simply suggesting that if MM was coaching this ND team last night, the Irish most likely would have won.

As for Ivey being a “light years better recruiter,” even diehard ND fans don’t believe that. Yes Ivey was frequently credited for being the great recruiter for MM’s best teams. But so far, on her own, she’s brought in one top recruit, lost three players to the transfer portal, and been forced to load up on transfers and walk-ons.

 

[Rocket009]

While I know that BY’ers have mixed feelings about MM, it’s hard to believe that a ND team coached by MM would have lost the game against MD last night on their home court. Niele Ivey has accomplished a lot in basketball, and she was MM’s handpicked successor at ND.

There are similarities between MM promoting Coach Ivey as her successor at ND and Pat Summit promoting HW as her successor at TN. Both actions were born out of loyalty to a valued assistant coach.

One can only wonder if ND had opened up the search for MM’s replacement, would the WBB program be better off with someone like Megan Duffy? Duffy has a ND pedigree, has worked her way up through the ranks in college basketball coaching and is now the successful HC at #24 Marquette.

I'm not a fan of ND, but I think you are overlooking that ND went into meltdown after Niel Ivey left. It would not be a stretch to see her as a major factor in the success of the program. Since returning she has turned the program around again, but yet to see if she can get it back to the level it was 5 or 6 years ago. I don't see her hire as a poor choice.

 

[Rocket009]

UCONN does not play Ohio State this season unless the two teams were to meet up in the tournament. Ohio State is noteworthy this season for a couple of reasons 1) tOSU already have decisive wins against TN ( Top #10 at the time) and even more decisive win against Louisville in Louisville. 2) tOSU is top or near the top of NCAA ranking in some key defensive metrics 7th in Scoring Margin, 1st in Turnover Margin , 1st in Turnovers forced per game ...
These defensive numbers, should they continue, are rather scary for a future opponent because Kevin has never had a great affinity for the defensive of the ball. When you combine that kind of defensive effort with arguably the Nations' best backcourt duo of (Mikesell & Sheldon) they are going to be a tough out come tournament time.

The wins against TN and Louisville are looking less impressive as the season progresses. tOSU remind me a lot of the Kentucky teams with their "40 minutes of hell" game plan. It got them only so far, and UCONN (and other top teams) never had much trouble with them.

 

[Iluvacc2]

Not sure what to make of ND. They and SC are close with my "dislike" meter - but FAR behind Tennessee for me. So I love seeing them lose (ND). I didn't watch the whole game so I'm not sure about the interactions between Diamond and the ND fans.

It's easy for us to watch a 10 second clip and say "classless". But what did the fans say/do to her all game? I didn't see it all so I can't speak for it. Low class? Probably. Provoked? Maybe.

Some ND fans wanted a T? Seriously? The game was over and unlike football, there is no penalty for "excessive celebration".

Diana was famous during the Tennessee rivalry. "I just wanted to punch something orange" - she punched the stanchion after making a clutch play during the UCONN-Tenn game. And of course famously popped her UCONN jersey after we won. Classless? Opposing fans certainly thought so. Deserved? OF COURSE. I'd support Diana 100% and twice on Sunday for anything related to Tennessee.

As for ND, They are very talented. Miles and Citron are really good and Mabry is... well... a Mabry. Maybe not as good as her sister in the WNBA, but really solid. Westbeld is really good, but not sure about the other post player - Watson?

I thought maybe ND might be the 4th best team in the country behind SC, Stanford and UCONN, but now not so much. Maybe tOSU? Indiana? Iowa State? Va Tech? In spite of NC State getting clobbered by UCONN, they clobbered an Iowa team that gave us all we could handle. So who knows?

ND will NOT want to lose 2 games in a row. They will be UP for the game vs. UCONN. Whereas they lost to a solid, but not great, Maryland team, I expect them to play much better against UCONN, much like Iowa did (as opposed to how they played vs. NC State).

I think Aaliyah and Aubrey will be more than ND posts can handle. Miles vs. Nika is intriguing - hopefully Nika stays out of foul trouble. Azzi is a much better defender than I thought - so fundamentally sound, i think she guards Mabry and Lou goes on Citron. I think the guards for ND will be a lot to handle and I could see Lou getting into foul trouble. Caroline will be key IMHO.

We will see Sunday for sure.

Miles is a great pg, but I’m a huge Citron fan, I’d take her on my team any day. I’m confused by Ivey’s love affair with Mabrey. She can shoot the 3, but is not always a willing passer and is not a good defender. Not sure why she plays so many minutes. Maybe Dillon can chime in. It was her turnover in last year’s sweet 16 that killed the Irish.

You’re right, they will absolutely BE UP to face UConn Sunday. These teams have a healthy dislike for each other, although Geno and Niele don’t have an acrimonious relationship like the one he shared with Muffet

I’m a strange bird who likes UConn, ND, MD and Stanford. I’m not too fond of Tenn and Louisville though.

 

[LoTrader]

Not expecting a close game in the UCONN vs ND game.

 

[oldude]

I'm not a fan of ND, but I think you are overlooking that ND went into meltdown after Niel Ivey left. It would not be a stretch to see her as a major factor in the success of the program. Since returning she has turned the program around again, but yet to see if she can get it back to the level it was 5 or 6 years ago. I don't see her hire as a poor choice.

Ivey left ND for only one season. So the “meltdown” occurred with players that she recruited and coached. It’s hard to believe that the entire WBB program in South Bend would collapse due to the departure of one assistant coach for a single season.

 

[BobbyJ]

I have to disagree with my to respected and fine colleagues @oldude and @BobbyJ as I actually think Coach Ivey has done a remarkable job turning the roster MM left around and I highly doubt MM would have won last night as that roster would have been radically different had MM stayed. Unless I have missed it, what top players has Duffy recruited to Marquette? While I like Duffy a lot (ask @Dillon77 as he knows my feelings) she is still utilizing Caroline Kieger’s players quite a bit for her success.

Niele has this team playing fairly well and has top recruits coming in and when compared to her new coaching lot of P5 Kara, Kellie, Lyndsey and even Courtney, I would pick Niele every time. She can recruit, use X‘s and O’s and has actually admonished both Mabry and Miles over boorish behavior which MM never did. Plus Niele actually compliments other teams and players.
I also politely disagree with @Bigpetunia About ND never “losing a game” as MM always said her teams “lost” the game and the “other team” never won the game as that would indicate the other team was better and MM would never, ever acknowledg that.

We can agree to disagree. IMO, the advantages of recruiting to ND well exceed those of recruiting to Marquette. Given the opportunity and those advantages, I believe Duffy would have recruited at least as well as Ivey and would/could have gotten Citron and Miles if they had been her priorities. Plus I think she would have developed Westbeld and utilized the now healthy Marshall better also.

 

[bballnut90]

Didn't catch the full game but watched the last few minutes and highlights....kinda figured there'd be some fans here up in arms about her end of game antics. I personally loved it. It's brash, arrogant and gets peoples blood boiling which I'm sure is EXACTLY what Miller was trying to do. 31 points, 12 rebounds, 5 assists, and the game winner, she deserves to do some showboating if she wants. Based on the way she's played in big games, I think she should be the clear cut #2 pick in the draft next year (assuming both Boston and Diamond declare). She's 6-3, fantastic playmaker and ball handler, a solid passer, has good form on her perimeter shot and might be the best athlete in the class. Comparing her to Haley Jones this year and there's no question I'd take Miller over her.

 

[Urshurak]

Not expecting a close game in the UCONN vs ND game.

Hard to say. I don't see UConn losing unless they just have a horrendous day, but I see scenarios where it could be a close back and forth game. If ND plays like they did last night, yeah, UConn by 20+.

BTW, Mabrey has been off last few games on her 3 point shot. Expect her to be lights out on Sunday. I can almost guarantee it.

 

[Zinethar]

I looked it up and NO TECHNICALS can be called after the game is ended. Any perceived infraction after the game is reported to the league office(s) for further action.

This is NOT true. A game is not officially over when the horn sounds. It is over when the officials leave the arena. Part of that is to protect the officials and also players and other team personnel.

NFHS and NCAAW -- Game is over when all three officials leave the visual confines.

NCAAM -- Game is over when the Referee leaves the visual confines.

Technical fould (like sportsmanship ones) can be called at ANY time when the officials are present as laid out above. This has happened. The way you worded it it would appear you saw an NBA rule which is apparently different. When trying to look it up it is hard to find because of so many questions about it changing the outcome of a game. That is irrelevant to this discussion. The time I'm aware of happened with pushing and shoving occuring during the after the game hand shake line while the appropriate official was still on the floor checking the final results.

Technical fouls can also be called before the game begins. They used to be called a lot when dunking was prohibited. Still are called for uniform, roster, or arena issues.

 

[Dillon77]

Miles is a great pg, but I’m a huge Citron fan, I’d take her on my team any day. I’m confused by Ivey’s love affair with Mabrey. She can shoot the 3, but is not always a willing passer and is not a good defender. Not sure why she plays so many minutes. Maybe Dillon can chime in. It was her turnover in last year’s sweet 16 that killed the Irish.

You’re right, they will absolutely BE UP to face UConn Sunday. These teams have a healthy dislike for each other, although Geno and Niele don’t have an acrimonious relationship like the one he shared with Muffet

I’m a strange bird who likes UConn, ND, MD and Stanford. I’m not too fond of Tenn and Louisville though.

Ah, you've touched on two of the more distinct subjects over at McGraw's Bench this a.m.

• "SoniLove." Sonia Citron averages 16+ ppg, 33 mpg and 8 rpg right now, leading the Irish in all three categories and is very close to the 50%, 40% and 90% club so far (she's 3% under the FT percentage). While we probably don't expect her to keep that up at the Bench, she is also just a remarkably composed, spirited player who exemplifies what Niele wants in a player and person. ND is very, very lucky to have her.
• Mabrey. This is the million dollar question. Yes, Dara can drill the three, but she's not a good driver, defender, rebounder. And, given that she's only 5'7" and/or usually looking for her shot, she's not a particularly adept passer, particularly to other outside shooters (see Citron, Sonia). In the past, many Irish fans could possibly understand the minutes, but right now she's still at 32 mpg, which is more than Miles!

Niele brought in Jenna Brown to ostensibly spell Olivia or fill in for her when 'Liv goes on foul-fests. After two years off court, she was making some very good process and -- blam -- she suddenly went from 10 minutes to nada. (Same deal for Nat Marshall in the front court). Jenna knows her role: distribute and defend; and, she would've been a great help last night.

Is it having a sister who is a coach of your team? Or Niele having such a long-term relationship with the family? Can't really say. However, her inclusion - such as being on the floor during the last Maryland possession -- on defense defied logic. Most Irish fans don't want her buried on the bench, but rotated in and out to best fit her strengths and recognize what she can't give.

 

[my2cents]

This is NOT true. A game is not officially over when the horn sounds. It is over when the officials leave the arena. Part of that is to protect the officials and also players and other team personnel.

NFHS and NCAAW -- Game is over when all three officials leave the visual confines.

NCAAM -- Game is over when the Referee leaves the visual confines.

Technical fould (like sportsmanship ones) can be called at ANY time when the officials are present as laid out above. This has happened. The way you worded it it would appear you saw an NBA rule which is apparently different. When trying to look it up it is hard to find because of so many questions about it changing the outcome of a game. That is irrelevant to this discussion. The time I'm aware of happened with pushing and shoving occuring during the after the game hand shake line while the appropriate official was still on the floor checking the final results.

Technical fouls can also be called before the game begins. They used to be called a lot when dunking was prohibited. Still are called for uniform, roster, or arena issues.

You are wrong.....I am not talking about when the game is over. There can be a case, just like last night where the refs are reviewing the clock to see if the basket counted. I am talking about when a technical foul can be called and shots taken. THAT CAN NOT HAPPEN POST TIME ELAPSING. Those cases ( just like the Rod Sellers) case went to league for future possible suspensions.

 

[baggerbob]

Interesting game. 1st half, if Maryland wasn't so sloppy, should have pulled away from ND. Maryland doesn't appear to be well coached but won at the end of game just gaving ball to Miller who did great job using picks and going to basket. Miles was constantly driving to basket, using her long arms to throw layups over defenders. Good midrange game-not someone to make a mistake around. Will be a challenge for Muhl. ND does not appear to defend or shot 3's well, but they have Citron who is the real thing. Ebo is an interesting player - a Charles Barkley type who can't jump but is difficult to move under the boards. Will be surprised if ND can withstand UConn's defense and overall speed.

Charles Barkley the round mound of rebound could jump.

 

[Zinethar]

You are wrong.....I am not talking about when the game is over. There can be a case, just like last night where the refs are reviewing the clock to see if the basket counted. I am talking about when a technical foul can be called and shots taken. THAT CAN NOT HAPPEN POST TIME ELAPSING. Those cases ( just like the Rod Sellers) case went to league for future possible suspensions.

OK I'm not going to argue with you anymore as you only used NBA rule which is different. I've seen it happen twice - once on a coach who started swearing at the refs after a tough game and got a technical and another where a player started an incident in the handshake line which got a technical which was shot and changed the score.Both college games. Believe what you want. We have a lot of that these days.

 

[Rocket009]

Ivey left ND for only one season. So the “meltdown” occurred with players that she recruited and coached. It’s hard to believe that the entire WBB program in South Bend would collapse due to the departure of one assistant coach for a single season.

Just looking at the records:
2018-2019 record 35-4 (last year Ivey is Assoc. coach)
2019-2020 record 13-18
2020-2021 record 10-10 (Ivey takes over as head coach)
2021-2022 record 24-10

My point is that the team took a big hit in the 19-20 season without her and has recovered since her return. I'm not sure if it is the best hire for ND, but it certainly was not a bad hire. It doesn't matter who recruited the players as much as what they did with them and in the 19-20 season something went really wrong.

 

[npignatjr]

I am always glad that ND loses, but I also always give Coach Ivey praise for being the one ND coach the stood and applauded when Breanna won national player of the year over Jewel

 

[bballnut90]

Just looking at the records:
2018-2019 record 35-4 (last year Ivey is Assoc. coach)
2019-2020 record 13-18
2020-2021 record 10-10 (Ivey takes over as head coach)
2021-2022 record 24-10

My point is that the team took a big hit in the 19-20 season without her and has recovered since her return. I'm not sure if it is the best hire for ND, but it certainly was not a bad hire. It doesn't matter who recruited the players as much as what they did with them and in the 19-20 season something went really wrong.

Problem with 19-20 is that everyone graduated, got injured, or transferred out. Jackie Young was projected to be back but left for the pros, likely starters Nixon/Patterson transferred, Peoples (double figures scorer) was lost mid year to season ending injury, Prohaska was injured all year, Vaughn missed about half of the season too. The team lost about 95% of their scoring from the 2018-19 campaign, so it was a completely different team that was young, injury riddled and had never played together before. ND recovered well last year and looks to be stronger going forward, but I think it'll be tough for Ivey to get ND back to where it was being a perennial title threat.

 

[HuskyNan]

Problem with 19-20 is that everyone graduated, got injured, or transferred out. Jackie Young was projected to be back but left for the pros, likely starters Nixon/Patterson transferred, Peoples (double figures scorer) was lost mid year to season ending injury, Prohaska was injured all year, Vaughn missed about half of the season too. The team lost about 95% of their scoring from the 2018-19 campaign, so it was a completely different team that was young, injury riddled and had never played together before. ND recovered well last year and looks to be stronger going forward, but I think it'll be tough for Ivey to get ND back to where it was being a perennial title threat.

 

[Dillon77]

Problem with 19-20 is that everyone graduated, got injured, or transferred out. Jackie Young was projected to be back but left for the pros, likely starters Nixon/Patterson transferred, Peoples (double figures scorer) was lost mid year to season ending injury, Prohaska was injured all year, Vaughn missed about half of the season too. The team lost about 95% of their scoring from the 2018-19 campaign, so it was a completely different team that was young, injury riddled and had never played together before. ND recovered well last year and looks to be stronger going forward, but I think it'll be tough for Ivey to get ND back to where it was being a perennial title threat.

Your memory is pretty spot on: ND lost something like 80% of its scoring going into the 2019-200 season. I went to the season opener at Fordham and didn't and/or barely recognized anyone! Then center Mik Vaughn got injured within 10 minutes of the game's start and frosh Sam Brunelle became a center (playing out of position) in the center of ND's 2-3 zone.

After a few missteps with remaining personnel from that year, Niele has cobbled together a team that is getting there, led by Miles and Citron (and Bransford looks promising). The 2023 recruiting class looks very strong (knock on wood), so I'm keeping patience that we're headed in the right direction. As UConn fans know, nothing is quite linear so you've got to count to ten from time to time.

 

[Dillon77]

View attachment 81445

Funny, given the game this week
(but somewhat worrisome given that you're, well, "you know who." Well, moderators can be fans, right? )

 

[Frankus]

While I know that BY’ers have mixed feelings about MM, it’s hard to believe that a ND team coached by MM would have lost the game against MD last night on their home court. Niele Ivey has accomplished a lot in basketball, and she was MM’s handpicked successor at ND.

There are similarities between MM promoting Coach Ivey as her successor at ND and Pat Summit promoting HW as her successor at TN. Both actions were born out of loyalty to a valued assistant coach.

One can only wonder if ND had opened up the search for MM’s replacement, would the WBB program be better off with someone like Megan Duffy? Duffy has a ND pedigree, has worked her way up through the ranks in college basketball coaching and is now the successful HC at #24 Marquette.

Ivey is by far the best possible coach for ND. She’s an elite recruiter and this current ND team is the most balanced in terms of physicality /speed that ND has ever had. Ebo is just getting into shape. As she does she’s going to be a physical beast inside, freeing up Westbeld to be an inside/out threat and with Watson and Marshall there’s a ton of inside depth. Miles/Citron are superb and Bransford is a stopper Nielle didn’t have when Mabrey becomes a defensive liability.

ND is already backs to elite status and with the incoming recruiting class the future couldn’t be brighter.

 

[jbc021592]

Ivey is by far the best possible coach for ND. She’s an elite recruiter and this current ND team is the most balanced in terms of physicality /speed that ND has ever had. Ebo is just getting into shape. As she does she’s going to be a physical beast inside, freeing up Westbeld to be an inside/out threat and with Watson and Marshall there’s a ton of inside depth. Miles/Citron are superb and Bransford is a stopper Nielle didn’t have when Mabrey becomes a defensive liability.

ND is already backs to elite status and with the incoming recruiting class the future couldn’t be brighter.

Couldn’t have said it any better! ☘️

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I do love Miles and Citron.