Mahomes

[WhereistheDove?]

It pains me to say that you're not wrong here. I disagree that the talent level isn't unusually high, I think it is. Bad QBs still fail in this league. Paxton Lynch, Osweiller. The fact that we are now seeing black QBs on a regular basis is reason enough for the talent pool to have increased. And that's a recent phenomena as well. Time was that Doug Williams, Cunningham and Moon were rare occurrences.

But the rule changes to protect the QB and protect receivers have clearly lead to a league where passing numbers of today can't be compared to those of the past. I don't think it's really New England's offensive system, there are a range of systems out there, but every single team is a pass first team. That is what has changed.

These are two different concepts. No one is questioning that this has become a more pass-friendly league where passers are protected. It’s the concept that this somehow narrows the talent gap between elite and marginal talents. Everything is relative. It’s not as if these rules help the middling talents but do not help the elite talents. We do this on every single sport. We come up with some reason why the old days were somehow preferable or more talented than the current days.

 

[HuskyHawk]

These are two different concepts. No one is questioning that this has become a more pass-friendly league where passers are protected. It’s the concept that this somehow narrows the talent gap between elite and marginal talents. Everything is relative. It’s not as if these rules help the middling talents but do not help the elite talents. We do this on every single sport. We come up with some reason why the old days were somehow preferable or more talented than the current days.

I simply think that, by the numbers, you can't compare eras. It isn't fair. What numbers would Staubach or Tarkington put up in this era? Huge numbers. Tarkington has huge numbers as it is. It works both ways. As good as Gurley or Bell are, they can't produce the yardage numbers of similarly talented guys who got 40 carries a game. Most teams don't even run 40 times a game.

Of the top 25 all time rushing leaders, two are active players, and one of those mostly because he's ancient by RB standards (Gore). Of the top 20 all time passing leaders, 7 are active. Brees should take over the top this weekend.

I think there are more quality QBs now than ever. Only a few teams in the whole league are weak at QB right now. That's unprecedented. Part of it may be the longevity of guys like Brady and Brees. We are also seeing rookies play well in a league not historically kind to rookie QBs. I do think the defensive rule changes help those rookies.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I simply think that, by the numbers, you can't compare eras. It isn't fair. What numbers would Staubach or Tarkington put up in this era? Huge numbers. Tarkington has huge numbers as it is. It works both ways. As good as Gurley or Bell are, they can't produce the yardage numbers of similarly talented guys who got 40 carries a game. Most teams don't even run 40 times a game.

Of the top 25 all time rushing leaders, two are active players, and one of those mostly because he's ancient by RB standards (Gore). Of the top 20 all time passing leaders, 7 are active. Brees should take over the top this weekend.

I think there are more quality QBs now than ever. Only a few teams in the whole league are weak at QB right now. That's unprecedented. Part of it may be the longevity of guys like Brady and Brees. We are also seeing rookies play well in a league not historically kind to rookie QBs. I do think the defensive rule changes help those rookies.

No one is saying you can compare eras...

 

[Waquoit]

I simply think that, by the numbers, you can't compare eras. It isn't fair. What numbers would Staubach or Tarkington put up in this era?

I don't think Tarkenton would have lasted 5 years today. And he was my favorite player.

 

[champs99and04]

I understand not every QB is Daryle Lamonica but even if it's tweaks in design, most NFL teams can say right now that they are alright at QB. It still takes talent to execute successfully in the NFL. As proven by a bunch of excellent college players who still fail to succeed in the NFL. Paxton Lynch of Denver is the latest example.

The NFL has actually done a pretty good job scaling their rookie contracts in a way that maximizes competitive balance. Teams with younger quarterbacks have more resources to invest in the players around them, which leads people to overstate their performance in relation to veteran quarterbacks on questionable contracts. Add that to the fact that the newest toy is always going to look the shiniest, and you have the perfect formula for widespread mediocrity being interpreted as some sort of QB golden age.

As you say, there are still only a select number of guys who can play the position at that level. That's what makes the paradigm shift so tough to observe. It's still the most important position, because you can't win without one, but at the same time, everyone seems to have one nowadays. There just aren't many starting qb's in the league still that I don't think you can win big with provided the right roster around them. There aren't many Mark Sanchez's, Rex Grossman's, Kyle Boeller's, and Josh Allen's still out there. OK there is one.

 

[champs99and04]

These are two different concepts. No one is questioning that this has become a more pass-friendly league where passers are protected. It’s the concept that this somehow narrows the talent gap between elite and marginal talents. Everything is relative. It’s not as if these rules help the middling talents but do not help the elite talents. We do this on every single sport. We come up with some reason why the old days were somehow preferable or more talented than the current days.

From a competitive balance standpoint, I think you could argue that the league is the healthiest it's ever been. It takes a minute to flip 4-12 into 12-4 with the way things are now. There's also the unavoidable reality that players, coaches, and organizations evolve over time. These guys are much smarter, better-trained, better-prepared, etc. than they were even a decade ago.

On the other hand I think you'd be hard pressed to say the product is more enjoyable. A lot of the things we do to improve the experience of watching a game don't actually end up improving the experience. I don't like unlimited replay, I don't like not having kickoffs anymore, I don't like not being able to hit people, assert your will at the line, chuck the ball down field, etc. I don't like the sharp drop-off in interceptions, I don't like coaches getting smarter, and I don't like the crack down on taunting, dancing, and every other behavior that might threaten Jim Nantz.

I still like the current game a lot. I get the sense that the product I'm watching now is about as far as I can go, though.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

From a competitive balance standpoint, I think you could argue that the league is the healthiest it's ever been. It takes a minute to flip 4-12 into 12-4 with the way things are now. There's also the unavoidable reality that players, coaches, and organizations evolve over time. These guys are much smarter, better-trained, better-prepared, etc. than they were even a decade ago.

On the other hand I think you'd be hard pressed to say the product is more enjoyable. A lot of the things we do to improve the experience of watching a game don't actually end up improving the experience. I don't like unlimited replay, I don't like not having kickoffs anymore, I don't like not being able to hit people, assert your will at the line, chuck the ball down field, etc. I don't like the sharp drop-off in interceptions, I don't like coaches getting smarter, and I don't like the crack down on taunting, dancing, and every other behavior that might threaten Jim Nantz.

I still like the current game a lot. I get the sense that the product I'm watching now is about as far as I can go, though.

I don't even know where this conversation has gone now.

 

[huskypantz]

Of the top 25 all time rushing leaders, two are active players, and one of those mostly because he's ancient by RB standards (Gore).

Crazy that UConn played Miami when Gore was still there - 2002, redshirted due to injury.

 

[Adios]

The NFL has actually done a pretty good job scaling their rookie contracts in a way that maximizes competitive balance. Teams with younger quarterbacks have more resources to invest in the players around them, which leads people to overstate their performance in relation to veteran quarterbacks on questionable contracts. Add that to the fact that the newest toy is always going to look the shiniest, and you have the perfect formula for widespread mediocrity being interpreted as some sort of QB golden age.

As you say, there are still only a select number of guys who can play the position at that level. That's what makes the paradigm shift so tough to observe. It's still the most important position, because you can't win without one, but at the same time, everyone seems to have one nowadays. There just aren't many starting qb's in the league still that I don't think you can win big with provided the right roster around them. There aren't many Mark Sanchez's, Rex Grossman's, Kyle Boeller's, and Josh Allen's still out there. OK there is one.

Where's Manziel?

 

[champs99and04]

Another game, another shootout. Luck and Brady have thrown for upwards of 700 yards.

If you're not throwing for 300 yards by breakfast in this league, you're going to be out of a job.

 

[traitor71]

I don't think Tarkenton would have lasted 5 years today. And he was my favorite player.

He was mobile, and the rules today don't allow you to even sack the qb without threat of a penalty. Hard to see how he wouldn't have lasted.

 

[Scoe]

Mahomes getting exposed tonight, his backyard Brett Favre style of play was gonna get exposed at some point. Pats were an easy pick tonight Chiefs weren't gonna go 16-0 anyways.

 

[UC313]

Mahomes getting exposed tonight, his backyard Brett Favre style of play was gonna get exposed at some point. Pats were an easy pick tonight Chiefs weren't gonna go 16-0 anyways.

Hes 19/31 for 273 and 2/2. Bradys 17/25 for 169 and 1/0 with a fumble. 4 point game in prime time in new england. He missed a couple early ones but the kids holdin his own against bill and tom.

Ball on the 4. Lets go chiefs!

 

[Scoe]

Hes 19/31 for 273 and 2/2. Bradys 17/25 for 169 and 1/0 with a fumble. 4 point game in prime time in new england. He missed a couple early ones but the kids holdin his own against bill and tom.

Ball on the 4. Lets go chiefs!

Its over now Chiefs won't be getting the ball back and if they do they will be down 2 scores.

 

[UC313]

Its over now Chiefs won't be getting the ball back and if they do they will be down 2 scores.

Trading fgs for tds early on really hurt KC bad.

 

[UC313]

Whoa. Showtime!

 

[noeynox]

Its over now Chiefs won't be getting the ball back and if they do they will be down 2 scores.

Man you're a jinx tonight

 

[Scoe]

Trading fgs for tds early on really hurt KC bad.

Well tie game now unfortunately way too much time for the Pats, they get it past midfield its ball game.

 

[Scoe]

Man you're a jinx tonight

Pats are gonna score here and win the game.

 

[Adios]

And Mahomes ties it. Yup, he sucks.

 

[noeynox]

Mahomes is pretty good. Unfair on that play, I counted 3 Rutgers guys.

 

[huskymedic]

 

[noeynox]

This kid is nasty. That armis filthy

 

[UC313]

He aint the goat for nothin. That was fun.

 

[Scoe]

Well Mahomes can't cover Gronk.