Mac and cheese kid arrested in Florida

[temery]

Wait ... This isn't really another event. It's a local judge's response to something that happened in Florida in May. I'm hoping he's made progress in the past two months.

 

[mauconnfan]

Was there a chance 77-74 wasn't posting on the dates he was in jail and in court?

 

[7774]

Was there a chance 77-74 wasn't posting on the dates he was in jail and in court?

Another classic mau zinger. If you could just reallocate the time you spend obsessing about me and put it into basic thinking skills, there's a chance that in only a few short months you could pass for a regular below average human.

 

[mauconnfan]

Another classic mau zinger. If you could just reallocate the time you spend obsessing about me and put it into basic thinking skills, there's a chance that in only a few short months you could pass for a regular below average human.

LOL couldn't have imagined you'd come up with such a creative comeback? Predictable, boring human being.

I wasn't obsessing wouldn't waste my time with you. Just having fun with a little minded boy who thinks a lot of himself. Your the stalker, you should know the difference. I'm through, you're too easy. Ignored

 

[7774]

LOL couldn't have imagined you'd come up with such a creative comeback?

I like that you made this a question. It's like "I'm Ron Burgandy?".

I agree though, ignore is probably for the best. At this point you have to be tired of throwing delusional nonsense at the wall desperately hoping it will stick.

 

[Huskies4ever]

@temery , this should be the next avatar you impose on someone who doesn't have one:

The kid looks 15/16 years old.

 

[dennismenace]

It is but the thinking is starting to change.
What if addiction is actually not a progressive disease like cancer or something ( like the 12 step programs tout) but is actually a learning disability?
What if all these years where we claimed " acceptance " was the key that the acceptance was actually maturation?

Elements of truth in "maturation" HAG (humility -see things as they really are) (acceptance - life on life terms) (gratitude -count blessings instead of losses)
Alcoholism = 3 fold disease: Spiritual (I am not God, need a higher power) Mental/emotional and Physical. Addiction is the physical part which goes away
after detox in a few days. Mental/emotional = obsession leads to picking up a drink or drug which sets of a chain reaction of obsessive (More) compulsive (pick it up)
behavior. Only a miracle of relief of the obsession will stop an alcoholic from drinking. Teenage alcoholics have never gone through the teen maturity that the average
person does and so has to go back and learn how to live life that they never learned. Growth stops when chemicals are taken to alter conscience. But "once an alcoholic
always an alcoholic" (never be able to safely ingest alcohol again = allergy of mind and body)

 

[DonaldDraper]

@8893 consider me inspired.

 

[tdrink]

Elements of truth in "maturation" HAG (humility -see things as they really are) (acceptance - life on life terms) (gratitude -count blessings instead of losses)
Alcoholism = 3 fold disease: Spiritual (I am not God, need a higher power) Mental/emotional and Physical. Addiction is the physical part which goes away
after detox in a few days. Mental/emotional = obsession leads to picking up a drink or drug which sets of a chain reaction of obsessive (More) compulsive (pick it up)
behavior. Only a miracle of relief of the obsession will stop an alcoholic from drinking. Teenage alcoholics have never gone through the teen maturity that the average
person does and so has to go back and learn how to live life that they never learned. Growth stops when chemicals are taken to alter conscience. But "once an alcoholic
always an alcoholic" (never be able to safely ingest alcohol again = allergy of mind and body)

The AA doctrine has no basis in science.

The Bad Science of Alcoholics Anonymous

 

[dennismenace]

The AA doctrine has no basis in science.

The Bad Science of Alcoholics Anonymous

It doesn't claim to be based in science. It believes that the disease of alcoholism is physical, mental/emotional and spiritual. It cooperates with the scientific community as well as churches
and psychology. It is a fellowship. It has no opinions on outside groups or methods.

 

[tdrink]

It doesn't claim to be based in science. It believes that the disease of alcoholism is physical, mental/emotional and spiritual. It cooperates with the scientific community as well as churches
and psychology. It is a fellowship. It has no opinions on outside groups or methods.

I know this is a touchy subject for a lot of people.

But "once an alcoholic
always an alcoholic" (never be able to safely ingest alcohol again = allergy of mind and body)

This all or nothing approach doesn't work for everybody, but you guys sell it as gospel. Other therapies end up hamstrung by the prevalence of it's acceptance. If you read the article you would find that AA has not cooperated with the scientific community. They haven't denied them either. But they have not had to withstand any type of peer review or proof of effectiveness despite that their model of addiction therapy receives huge amounts of health care dollars. If there are better/more cost effective therapies (which other countries seem to be showing there are) we should move toward them and away from the 100 year old AA model. We don't largely because of the faith based aspect, even though that is getting downplayed somewhat out of necessity.

 

[David 76]

AA receives $0 health care dollars. Insurance companies began to require a 12 step component in treatment simply because it was to their financial advantage because it increased the chances of success.
There are changes in the brain of a n alcoholic that remain without drinking and won't exist in me if I went on a month long bender. This gives some scientific credence to that once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic concept you dislike.
I don't know if this is personal to you or if you are responding on behalf of empiricism. What I know is that when I look at people who were a mess and are now happy and productive, a 12 step program is involved the vast, vast majority of the time

 

[tdrink]

AA receives $0 health care dollars. Insurance companies began to require a 12 step component in treatment simply because it was to their financial advantage because it increased the chances of success.
There are changes in the brain of a n alcoholic that remain without drinking and won't exist in me if I went on a month long bender. This gives some scientific credence to that once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic concept you dislike.
I don't know if this is personal to you or if you are responding on behalf of empiricism. What I know is that when I look at people who were a mess and are now happy and productive, a 12 step program is involved the vast, vast majority of the time

It is not personal to me, so I won't press it. There is no doubt it works for some people so it's effectiveness is never supposed to be questioned.

 

[FluxTZ]

And as I load this page I'm served 2x ads for rehab centers in CA

 

[August_West]

AA receives $0 health care dollars. Insurance companies began to require a 12 step component in treatment simply because it was to their financial advantage because it increased the chances of success.
There are changes in the brain of a n alcoholic that remain without drinking and won't exist in me if I went on a month long bender. This gives some scientific credence to that once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic concept you dislike.
I don't know if this is personal to you or if you are responding on behalf of empiricism. What I know is that when I look at people who were a mess and are now happy and productive, a 12 step program is involved the vast, vast majority of the time

My take is that it is proven to be the Best way for long term success. It has a track record. It is to be commended for that. It has most likely saved millions of lives. There is no arguing with success. But it may not be the "only way" . And maybe what Tdrink was getting at (or maybe not, I dont want to put words in his mouth) is that there are some that espouse it as the "only way" from within the rooms (despite what the "official stance" may be....Ive seen it) and from outside.

 

[tdrink]

My take is that it is proven to be the Best way for long term success. It has a track record. It is to be commended for that. It has most likely saved millions of lives. There is no arguing with success. But it may not be the "only way" . And maybe what Tdrink was getting at (or maybe not, I dont want to put words in his mouth) is that there are some that espouse it as the "only way" from within the rooms (despite what the "official stance" may be....Ive seen it) and from outside.

The horse had a good track record of moving people and goods around prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine. Arguing for gas powered engines is not arguing against horses or denying their track record of success.

August, you advocate for harm reduction policies. Those fly generally in the face of the 12 step all or nothing approach.

So many emotional ties to this issue from so many people that it makes rational discussions extremely difficult. Best for me to step away from the topic.

 

[donyell34]

Alcohol ruined the lives of 3 good friends and terrible to witness close up. Also had 3 good friends come back from the brink of disaster and don't know exactly how they did it other than yes all 3 went to A A. There leading such productive lives now and a pleasure to see.

 

[bballgrda]

@8893 consider me inspired.

That's a killer username/avatar combo.

 

[David 76]

It is not personal to me, so I won't press it. There is no doubt it works for some people so it's effectiveness is never supposed to be questioned.

No! All things should be questioned. I meant to show some of the other side of the argument, not shut you down. It certainly is not all things to all people at all times of their life. New converts can be annoying. But if someone I cared about had a problem, I would encourage this path. Even if they were as without faith as me.

 

[August_West]

The horse had a good track record of moving people and goods around prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine. Arguing for gas powered engines is not arguing against horses or denying their track record of success.

August, you advocate for harm reduction policies. Those fly generally in the face of the 12 step all or nothing approach.

So many emotional ties to this issue from so many people that it makes rational discussions extremely difficult. Best for me to step away from the topic.

The horse had a good track record of moving people and goods around prior to the invention of the internal combustion engine. Arguing for gas powered engines is not arguing against horses or denying their track record of success.

August, you advocate for harm reduction policies. Those fly generally in the face of the 12 step all or nothing approach.

So many emotional ties to this issue from so many people that it makes rational discussions extremely difficult. Best for me to step away from the topic.

Yes I'm a major advocate for harm reduction. What " harm reduction " amounts to for me is getting people to not die or not go to jail in the interim before they are ready for a different way of life.
I believe AA/ NA program is a valuable asset to those in need and provides a long term path.
Where I differ with that is with the " hes not ready yet" or the " gotta hit your bottom first" . Yes that is one way, but some peoples bottoms are death or jail. Harm reduction is a bridge between active, destructive use and long term recovery.

Ive always said that AA/NA steps are really mostly a set of life principles that EVERYONE can benefit from applying.
If you remove the early steps that everyone freaks out about ( admitting higher power, admitting powerlessness) which a are specific to your addiction, what are you left with?

Making a searching and fearless moral inventory of yourself? Right on. Who wouldn't benefit from honest introspection?

Making amends to people you've wronged? You dont have to be an addict to have wronged people . A clear conscience is a wonderful thing. For anyone.

Bettering yourself and the world by being in service to others?
Sure. sign me up. I'm an an idealist. I've always believed that.

 

[dennismenace]

It doesn't claim to be based in science. It believes that the disease of alcoholism is physical, mental/emotional and spiritual. It cooperates with the scientific community as well as churches
and psychology. It is a fellowship. It has no opinions on outside groups or methods.

AA has no doctrine. The twelve steps are "suggestions" because the fellowship has learned through experience that most alcoholics are too defiant to accept anything less than suggestions!
http://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/smf-92_en.pdf

 

[tdrink]

Yes I'm a major advocate for harm reduction. What " harm reduction " amounts to for me is getting people to not die or not go to jail in the interim before they are ready for a different way of life.
I believe AA/ NA program is a valuable asset to those in need and provides a long term path.
Where I differ with that is with the " hes not ready yet" or the " gotta hit your bottom first" . Yes that is one way, but some peoples bottoms are death or jail. Harm reduction is a bridge between active, destructive use and long term recovery.

Ive always said that AA/NA steps are really mostly a set of life principles that EVERYONE can benefit from applying.
If you remove the early steps that everyone freaks out about ( admitting higher power, admitting powerlessness) which a are specific to your addiction, what are you left with?

Making a searching and fearless moral inventory of yourself? Right on. Who wouldn't benefit from honest introspection?

Making amends to people you've wronged? You dont have to be an addict to have wronged people . A clear conscience is a wonderful thing. For anyone.

Bettering yourself and the world by being in service to others?
Sure. sign me up. I'm an an idealist. I've always believed that.

The crux of the article I keep referring to is that the Europeans now treat alcoholism by having heavy drinkers take a pill before they start drinking. The pill overrides the neural pathways that get "pleasure" (sense of normalcy) from alcohol. Within a couple of days the person no longer has the desire to drink. Whether or not there is relapse the harm reduction is almost immediate and at a very low relative cost. But it's implementation has been objected.

I see alcoholism as the "hijacking" of neural pathways. I think it is a mental illness much like depression. The brain has the capability to be "normal" but is stuck in a loop. I don't believe it is a progressive disease. And I don't believe that people should be told they have to bottom out and that they can never touch a drop or they will end up on a bender. That is codifying and self predictive.

So yes, introspection, making amends and serving others are great and I wish everyone would do those things across the board. But we don't lean on people who just got over a bout of depression to apologize to others.

 

[8893]

Yes I'm a major advocate for harm reduction. What " harm reduction " amounts to for me is getting people to not die or not go to jail in the interim before they are ready for a different way of life.
I believe AA/ NA program is a valuable asset to those in need and provides a long term path.
Where I differ with that is with the " hes not ready yet" or the " gotta hit your bottom first" . Yes that is one way, but some peoples bottoms are death or jail. Harm reduction is a bridge between active, destructive use and long term recovery.

Ive always said that AA/NA steps are really mostly a set of life principles that EVERYONE can benefit from applying.
If you remove the early steps that everyone freaks out about ( admitting higher power, admitting powerlessness) which a are specific to your addiction, what are you left with?

Making a searching and fearless moral inventory of yourself? Right on. Who wouldn't benefit from honest introspection?

Making amends to people you've wronged? You dont have to be an addict to have wronged people . A clear conscience is a wonderful thing. For anyone.

Bettering yourself and the world by being in service to others?
Sure. sign me up. I'm an an idealist. I've always believed that.

Commie.

 

[David 76]

The crux of the article I keep referring to is that the Europeans now treat alcoholism by having heavy drinkers take a pill before they start drinking. The pill overrides the neural pathways that get "pleasure" (sense of normalcy) from alcohol. Within a couple of days the person no longer has the desire to drink. Whether or not there is relapse the harm reduction is almost immediate and at a very low relative cost. But it's implementation has been objected.

I see alcoholism as the "hijacking" of neural pathways. I think it is a mental illness much like depression. The brain has the capability to be "normal" but is stuck in a loop. I don't believe it is a progressive disease. And I don't believe that people should be told they have to bottom out and that they can never touch a drop or they will end up on a bender. .

I agree with most of what you say. There may be a day where our knowledge of neural pathways changes everything.
But I think it is a progressive disease. It follows a pattern, gets worse, etc.
And making amends? I think you are underestimating the level of narcissism that develops from addiction. That is different than a typical depressed person.
If you read this thread, you know I'm not for waiting for people to hit their bottom. There was a pretty intense conversation a few pages back. We agree on that too

 

[tdrink]

I agree with most of what you say. There may be a day where our knowledge of neural pathways changes everything.
But I think it is a progressive disease. It follows a pattern, gets worse, etc.
And making amends? I think you are underestimating the level of narcissism that develops from addiction. That is different than a typical depressed person.
If you read this thread, you know I'm not for waiting for people to hit their bottom. There was a pretty intense conversation a few pages back. We agree on that too

There are lots of negative behaviors that come from changes to brain chemistry that are self feeding. Laziness, anger, compulsive shopping, over eating, under eating, over working, body obsession, sex addiction, etc..All create changes in brain chemistry/neural paths, but we don't label those as "diseases." And we don't expect people to completely give up the things that created the obsession. We don't tell a sex addict that they can't ever have sex again. The goal is to get them to engage in the behavior in a responsible matter.

Some of those are out of necessity. People can't give up eating entirely. But moving people toward engaging in the behavior responsibly takes away the on the wagon/off the wagon cycle that so many addicts fall into. This wouldn't be ideal for everyone or every situation, but potentially more effective in some situations.