Louisville Dumps Tennessee

[EricSD]

I generally agree with your post, but would point out that Holly has now been at TN for 32 seasons, the last 5 as HC. I get that replacing a legend is never easy, but the thing that should upset Vol fans the most is the trajectory of the program, which is headed in the wrong direction.

You really think so? Look at the class they have coming in next year and 2018 is off to a good start for them as well. I think DD leaving will be addition by subtraction. I think we need to wait till Tenn is post DD before really evaluating what Warlick achieves.

I can tell you it appears to me that Russell has improved a fair amount, and so has Nared so far. UCONN fans are often critical of the lack of player development at certain schools. Of course we feel they would have developed more under Geno, but it will be interesting to see what Warlick does post DD with a team that she actually (hopefully) is in charge of instead of the players being in charge...

 

[oldude]

You really think so? Look at the class they have coming in next year and 2018 is off to a good start for them as well. I think DD leaving will be addition by subtraction. I think we need to wait till Tenn is post DD before really evaluating what Warlick achieves.

I can tell you it appears to me that Russell has improved a fair amount, and so has Nared so far. UCONN fans are often critical of the lack of player development at certain schools. Of course we feel they would have developed more under Geno, but it will be interesting to see what Warlick does post DD with a team that she actually (hopefully) is in charge of instead of the players being in charge...

I guess I would have to say that the incoming class represents only potential, not success, at this point in time, and it wasn't like DD showed up at TN uninvited. Holly brought her in.

 

[nwhoopfan]

and it wasn't like DD showed up at TN uninvited. Holly brought her in.

Not only that, but DeShield's arrival had Tennessee fans crowing about being back as Championship contenders. That didn't quite work out, so now it's "addition by subtraction" and hoping for the next new superstar to spur their revival. I think we've heard this before.

 

[Blue Huskie]

These are my thoughts. As far as this year. The loss of Cooper did hurt. However I do think overall the team. Took some steps forward over the previous year. Most players improved their stats over the previous year. I think next year with the freshman coming in, and Cooper back. If Both Mercedes and Diamond return. The team is a FF caliber team.

But that's the problem. You have FF caliber talent year in and year out. What you don't have is a FF caliber coaching staff.

 

[stwainfan]

But that's the problem. You have FF caliber talent year in and year out. What you don't have is a FF caliber coaching staff.

Well fortunately for UConn. Your coach didn't have health issue. Then had to step down. I do not know the full extent of how that effected the team and recruits. I think that Westbrook will be a star. As far as Holly is concerned. Like Gary Blair said she's doing a great job. It's hard to replace a legend.

 

[UcMiami]

Just watch a game TN plays and ask yourself if they are well coached. They have no help defense or defensive rotation and do not appear to have scouted the other teams tendencies. They have no rhyme nor reason on offense, they are a very poor passing team, they are a poor shooting team, and they have no discipline. They spent all of last year having no clue how to attack a zone defense and I don't believe they showed they had figured it out this year either, but i didn't watch enough games - if they cannot exploit their superior athleticism they struggle. Nared is a player, but she is the only player on the current team that I think has shown any development in her time at TN - Russell, she is maybe older and a little wiser, but her game is pretty much identical to what she brought from HS in a more mature body.

TN has a lot of AAs and they are getting another shipment next year - but having AAs has never been the issue - in the last 8 years pretty much every AA they recruited and there have been a lot, has mysteriously been grossly over-hyped out of HS and clearly not that good or worthy of their AA status by the time they left TN. That is an impressive record they are building - the program where AAs go to fade away.
Current TN players in the WNBA:
Pats Star
Parker - great career still going on grad: 2008
First class to graduate after Pat stepped down:
Stricklen - 2012 1st round (2nd) started 34 of 163 games in her career and averages 18.8 mpg - last year 11 mpg with 0 starts.
Johnson - 2012 1st round (4th) solid starter at power forward. 2 time all star
Baugh - 2012 3rd round selection made a roster for the first time in 2014 and has played 78 games in three years as a reserve playing 12 minutes a game
Last two Pat recruiting classes:
Simmons - 2014 3rd round, made first team in 2016 and played 25 games with 6 minutes per game
Harrison - 2015 grad (injured) 2016 reserve center playing 7.5 minutes per game.

So at this point with all the AAs that have come through the TN program and graduated in the last 6 years since Holly took over there is one starter/all star, and 4 role players. Not very impressive. And three of them took two years of pro development before they made a team. On edit - i think Baugh was injured when she was drafted so has taken two years to get healthy?

 

[j66kicker]

That game was a dumpster fire. Neither team looked impressive. The thing that jumped out at me, is how small Louisville's guards are. Kia Nurse would have no problem guarding Durr. Nether team has anyone who can guard Collier or Williams, nevermind KLS. However, Louisville season will come to an end the next game.

That's what we thought in 2013 too

 

[HoopsFan21]

Vols fans live in an alternate universe. I'll bet most of them still use rotary phones and listen to music on cassette tapes.

 

[j66kicker]

Will DeShields and Russell bail for the WNBA?

See ya...

 

[j66kicker]

The $64,000 question: How long do you think it will be before DeShields announces her decision to leave for the W? The tea leaves say within 3 days after the conclusion of the tournament. I think she's already decided, but she'll wait until after the conclusion of the games, so not to appear to upstage them.

I believe the rule is she has to declare by the official declaration date, or within 24 hours after her last game should that game fall after the declaration date. The date is typically before the finals of the NCAA tourney (the draft is within a week or so after the NCAA final game). Diamond's last game is done, so her decision is simply governed by the standard date and she must declare by that date. So she will not be able to wait until 3 days after the conclusion of the tournament.

 

[j66kicker]

Azura will stay 2 years IMHO. Geno would never have taken her for just 1 year. I'm betting she promised to stay 2 years. She can change her mind of course, but why? She will likely win at least 2 NC's while at UCONN and possibly 3! Having said that, Lou, Collier or Stevens - what order do THEY go? They will be a big 3 that will rival, and possibly exceed, Stewie, Mo and Morgan.

That's what you kept saying about Tuck. I won't say "It ain't happenin'." But it probably ain't happenin'. Just enjoy her while she's here

 

[augustaTC]

Yes and I'm surprised at what I've been reading from some TENN fans. They don't want to fire Holly because of the really great recruiting class coming in. They think they'll lose it if she gets the boot. It would seem apparent by now that she doesn't have the ability to harness the already immense talents she's already had at her disposal. Do they really think a new wave of kids is going to be the magic ingredient? Without any direction they're just spinning their wheels.

So true. Pay me now or pay me later....Holly isn't going to become a great coach at this point in her life, so get on with it Tennessee (if it's not Holly's coaching, then it has to be her recruiting). Loyalty to Holly is wonderful, but do they want to win or not. To say that Tennessee loses all their recruits is kind of silly as I don't think the kids have a whole lot of options at this point (unless they want to sit out a year) as the commitment is to the school, not the coach. Open the wallet wide bring in one of the many good, successful coaches out there, give him/her a "5-year, no cut" contract, and let whoever it is go at it. But you have to do it now. He/she has to impress/resell the recruits to a degree, work on the next wave of recruits and be in place, ready to roll by late spring. Not saying it's easy, but it can be done. Never happen, but it is sad to see a great program slide. And the longer you wait, the longer the turn around takes.

Following a legend is near to impossible (as Geno's successor will also find out) simply because they AREN'T the legend. Following a good coach is possible (eg. Neighbors in Washington), but a genuine legend....NFW. Best situation is following the "failed" coach who followed the legend - the program likely has a big, visible name, the resources are in place, and the proposition you're selling, "I think you're the caliber of player and person I need to return XYZ Univ to its rightful place" is compelling. Heck, I'll probably be six feet under by the time Geno moves on but it is fun to speculate once in a while.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Well fortunately for UConn. Your coach didn't have health issue. Then had to step down. I do not know the full extent of how that effected the team and recruits. I think that Westbrook will be a star. As far as Holly is concerned. Like Gary Blair said she's doing a great job. It's hard to replace a legend.

I haven't thought for even a bit since she took over that she is doing a good job.... Understood it is hard to take over for a legend.... but based on 35 years of experience, 5 as head coach and 1 more as head coach filling in for Pat, don't you think she would have the hang of it by now... and she even admits that she does not know how to fix things.... do you really think she is competent? and to your suggestion about Westbrook, do you think she will get proper coaching?

 

[j66kicker]

Following a legend is near to impossible (as Geno's successor will also find out) simply because they AREN'T the legend. Following a good coach is possible (eg. Neighbors in Washington), but a genuine legend....NFW. Best situation is following the "failed" coach who followed the legend - the program likely has a big, visible name, the resources are in place, and the proposition you're selling, "I think you're the caliber of player and person I need to return XYZ Univ to its rightful place" is compelling. Heck, I'll probably be six feet under by the time Geno moves on but it is fun to speculate once in a while.

Exception: Jimmy Johnson replacing Tom Landry

 

[Bayareahusky]

A lot of the problem with following a legend is that legends surround themselves with good people.... who act in the capacity of tenured, vested, loyal supporters, but not necessarily with the imbued qualities of the legend him or herself. And associated with that, schools (and/or the legends themselves) act with their hearts and name these underlings to the top spot... and rarely it turns out well.... Bruiser Flint after Calipari at UMass, Gene Bartow at UCLA, Esherick at Georgetown, the list goes on and on.... Jimmy Johnson was successful.... but he was not in the Landry lineage... he was from the outside.

 

[stwainfan]

I haven't thought for even a bit since she took over that she is doing a good job.... Understood it is hard to take over for a legend.... but based on 35 years of experience, 5 as head coach and 1 more as head coach filling in for Pat, don't you think she would have the hang of it by now... and she even admits that she does not know how to fix things.... do you really think she is competent? and to your suggestion about Westbrook, do you think she will get proper coaching?

I think next year will be the most talented team Holly has had. I look at players like Harrison and Nared. As two players who improved. Just using those two as a example.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I think next year will be the most talented team Holly has had. I look at players like Harrison and Nared. As two players who improved. Just using those two as a example.

Yes you are correct about Harrison and Nared.... I hope it works as you want it with Holly.

 

[Blue Huskie]

I think next year will be the most talented team Holly has had. I look at players like Harrison and Nared. As two players who improved. Just using those two as a example.

I applaud your loyalty. Or maybe it's being a realist because of the long contract Holly has. So if next year is also somewhat of a bust if it's the most talented group will that be the breaking point for you regarding a coaching change?

 

[augustaTC]

A lot of the problem with following a legend is that legends surround themselves with good people.... who act in the capacity of tenured, vested, loyal supporters, but not necessarily with the imbued qualities of the legend him or herself. And associated with that, schools (and/or the legends themselves) act with their hearts and name these underlings to the top spot... and rarely it turns out well.... Bruiser Flint after Calipari at UMass, Gene Bartow at UCLA, Esherick at Georgetown, the list goes on and on.... Jimmy Johnson was successful.... but he was not in the Landry lineage... he was from the outside.

Excellent point (that's why I said "near to impossible" - had to allow for a minor cop-out!). But boy, is it hard. And somehow being the loyal #2 for a bunch of years doesn't quite cut it. Good luck to whoever has to replace Bellichick. Or Popovich. Arguably Auerbach's successors break the rules, but he was looking over their shoulders as GM so it wasn't so clear cut.

 

[DaddyChoc]

That's what you kept saying about Tuck. I won't say "It ain't happenin'." But it probably ain't happenin'. Just enjoy her while she's here

Stevens do not have the knee issues that Tuck has/had... also Tuck was with UConn for 4 yrs, she could say that she had enough

Bad comparison

 

[CocoHusky]

These are my thoughts. As far as this year. The loss of Cooper did hurt. However I do think overall the team. Took some steps forward over the previous year. Most players improved their stats over the previous year. I think next year with the freshman coming in, and Cooper back. If Both Mercedes and Diamond return. The team is a FF caliber team.

I think next year will be the most talented team Holly has had. I look at players like Harrison and Nared. As two players who improved. Just using those two as a example.

Sounded familiar so I actually went back and did a search. The following events were supposed to propel TN back to national prominence and or FF per Lady Vol fans.

• Cierra Burdick #3 recruit.
• Te'a Cooper "best PG in the class"
• Signing of Diamond DeShields
• Mercedes Russell being "healthy"
• Diamond staying healthy.

Now Lady Vols fans are banking on incoming #1 recruiting class. TN spent much of this season unranked. TN has had consecutive years of double digit losses. TN has had 3 consecutives years of multiple losses to unranked teams. Perhaps a less loft objective (single digit losses season ) should be TN's goal and not the FF.

 

[Geew1992]

I go over to the LV board alot. There are numerous fire holly threads. There are a coupple of the best candidate for the job is... Most of their fans have no faith in Holly. Don't believe she will get them back to the promise land. Says even with the number 1 recruiting class coming in, HW will screw that up too. That she makes great/good talent bad. There are still some that think she's done a good job and the reason for this year was due to the short bench/injuries. But the majority have written her off.

 

[stwainfan]

I applaud your loyalty. Or maybe it's being a realist because of the long contract Holly has. So if next year is also somewhat of a bust if it's the most talented group will that be the breaking point for you regarding a coaching change?

Thanks. I think I will wait and see how next year goes. Yes it could be . I think the team will be better though.

 

[stwainfan]

Sounded familiar so I actually went back and did a search. The following events were supposed to propel TN back to national prominence and or FF per Lady Vol fans.

• Cierra Burdick #3 recruit.
• Te'a Cooper "best PG in the class"
• Signing of Diamond DeShields
• Mercedes Russell being "healthy"
• Diamond staying healthy.

Now Lady Vols fans are banking on incoming #1 recruiting class. TN spent much of this season unranked. TN has had consecutive years of double digit losses. TN has had 3 consecutives years of multiple losses to unranked teams. Perhaps a less loft objective (single digit losses season ) should be TN's goal and not the FF.

Diamond played hurt her first year. Mercedes game improved. She tied Harrison for most double double games by a junior. She is in the number 37 all time in points. I think had Cooper been healthy. She would have helped also.

 

[CocoHusky]

Diamond played hurt her first year. Mercedes game improved. She tied Harrison for most double double games by a junior. She is in the number 37 all time in points. I think had Cooper been healthy. She would have helped also.

 

[augustaTC]

I go over to the LV board alot. There are numerous fire holly threads. There are a coupple of the best candidate for the job is... Most of their fans have no faith in Holly. Don't believe she will get them back to the promise land. Says even with the number 1 recruiting class coming in, HW will screw that up too. That she makes great/good talent bad. There are still some that think she's done a good job and the reason for this year was due to the short bench/injuries. But the majority have written her off.

Those LV fans are a tough group. My nephew married a lovely young lady from Knoxville and she and her family are Tennessee fans. Her Dad is a huge LV fan and I made the mistake at the wedding of mentioning the Huskies......Oops. Couldn't resist sending their 2-yr old daughter one of those baby headband thingies from the UConn store for Christmas (as a gentle poke, obviously) and asked them to send me a pic when she tried it on. Absolutely refused to even put it on her head! I was kind of surprised but my nephew explained his wife was worried the pic (that never happened) might "get out" and be seen by her friends & family members. They're great kids, but in the immortal words of Cris Carter, "C'mon Man"!

 

[CocoHusky]

Those LV fans are a tough group. My nephew married a lovely young lady from Knoxville and she and her family are Tennessee fans. Her Dad is a huge LV fan and I made the mistake at the wedding of mentioning the Huskies.Oops. Couldn't resist sending their 2-yr old daughter one of those baby headband thingies from the UConn store for Christmas (as a gentle poke, obviously) and asked them to send me a pic when she tried it on. Absolutely refused to even put it on her head! I was kind of surprised but my nephew explained his wife was worried the pic (that never happened) might "get out" and be seen by her friends & family members. They're great kids, but in the immortal words of Cris Carter, "C'mon Man"!

Get child protective services involved if you have to.

 

[augustaTC]

Forgot to mention, the family cat (orange of course) is named Neyland.

 

[sarals24]

It's always something with the Lady Vols. Middleton was supposed to come in and be the next great shooter. Meme Jackson was uber athletic. Cooper was the next great point guard. Mercedes and Diamond were #1 coming out of high school. (As a side note, they technically have more #1 HS players on their roster than UConn does).

I know injuries happen, but either the player development isn't there, or the recruiting is bad (recruiting highly ranked players with no thought as to how they fit together) or the in game coaching is bad. I think it's a combo of all three. But it all starts and ends with the head coach.

 

[j66kicker]

Stevens do not have the knee issues that Tuck has/had... also Tuck was with UConn for 4 yrs, she could say that she had enough

Bad comparison

You heard it here first

Just sayin' many here are overly optimistic about this type thing. The reality is almost all the high WNBA prospects who can go - they go. Somebody a week or 2 ago in this same discussion came up with an eligible player (?) from way back when who didn't go, but that one example was all anybody could come up with. ??