Lin Dunn: UConn Bad for the Game

[Icebear]

So now Lin Dunn keeps it going. We've heard the same thing before during the long winning streaks. Geno called it out for what it was. No, Lin I don't want crap basketball so you can have close games. Crap is crap and it just stinks and folks will walk away in droves.

 

[msf22b]

I thought UCONN played beautiful basketball.

In addition, so kids from smaller conferences don't get opportunites to play against the giants? We don't care about them because it doesn't give us the fix we want for an entire season?

Sorry to be unclear….yes, UConn plays beautiful BB, the most elegant imaginable.

But your second point…for the good of the game…play as many (potentially) competitive games as required to further the sport.
The smaller conferences can wait.

 

[phil sampieri]

So pretty much what Linn was saying was, we need to lower our standards at UConn so that others can catch up, if they can. Give me a break! Like somebody already stated, nobody had a problem with the Lady Vols running things and being dominate. Nobody told Pat to lower her standards Tennessee

Did it ever occur to Lin that some of the so-called competitive teams don't want to get there backsides beat by UC

 

[Ctpaul0825]

Been following Ms. Dunn's tweets and who she follows. I'm guessing that it's probably that UCONN's coach is male that bothers her most. That is just my humble opinion and as a gay male I'm basing this on my radar .

 

[Striper69]

I guess Dunn clarified. We all know her clarification is more or less accurate. There are two major differences between UConn and everybody else that she should account for - Geno as coach and the fact that he built on his original success like nobody else once UConn became UT's prime challenger. There have been a bunch of one hit wonders, like Purdue, A&M etc. Notre Dame has one NC and a very good program, but even that one NC came in a year when UConn was weakened by injury, as has been the case in a few other years where UConn was very strong and didn't win the whole thing. Baylor is a multiple winner, but it's a fair question to ask why they only did it once with Griner. Dunn needs to figure out why Geno was able to build and become the best and none of the others built so well on success. The talent pool is plenty deep these days even though UConn has a lot of great ones. UT still gets it share of AA's as does Duke and some others. There's no question most schools don't take women's hoops that seriously, but in fairness, I doubt UConn would have been much different absent Geno. The coaching talent pool seems pretty shallow and, as I've said before, how long does anyone think a major men's basketball program would keep coaches like Landers and Perreta nearly as long as they've been at their schools? The attitude, for better or worse, is different.

Are the new rules that concern hand-checking the "Griner Effect"? Since Louisville beat Baylor the way they did.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Are the new rules that concern hand-checking the "Griner Effect"? Since Louisville beat Baylor the way they did.

You mean by shooting 64% from 3-point land against the #1 team? Yeah, you're not supposed to do that any more because it hurts their feelings, and I'm thinking it will not be happening this year with UConn in that position.

And yes, Dunn has now become a quacking caricature of the disgruntled apologists for the parody lovers now that UConn is back on top. If the Huskies had won the last 5 NCs maybe you could understand, but with three different winners the last three years, she has entered absurdia, and the comment about not liking a UConn blowout after all the stuff that happens every week in basketball and football shows that she has become unhinged.

 

[Adesmar123]

Is it possible that Lin Dunn is bad for "our" game?

 

[UConnCat]

Because she hasn't asked the question enough times, Lin Dunn repeated it on twitter this morning, leaving out the reference to UConn:

Lin Dunn ‏@coachlindunn 2h
Are routs in WBBall good for our game?

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Because she hasn't asked the question enough times, Lin Dunn repeated it on twitter this morning, leaving out the reference to UConn:

Lin Dunn ‏@coachlindunn 2h
Are routs in WBBall good for our game?

Lin Dunn may be right in one respect - routs between teams ranked in the top five or top ten are not good for the game. This is why the Duke-UConn matchups have been so disheartening.

But on what planet is this the fault of UConn, either the players or the coaching staff? It is the fault of every other coach in the country who has not strived to get better in terms of Xs and Os or put more time into film watching and strategizing to play UConn?

Why have coaches not followed the lead of Muffet McGraw? She has some talented players, but has not had consistent top-three classes every year. But she studies Geno's tendencies as a coach and works to counter them and to anticipate his counter moves and adjustments.

But phrasing it the way Lin Dunn did seems to put the blame on UConn. Blaming UConn is like blaming Serena Williams for her dominance. Instead of worrying weather it is good or bad for the game, lets just focus on the amazing talent and coaching on display and wonder when other coaches/players will raise their own games in response.

 

[BRS24]

But on what planet is this the fault of UConn, either the players or the coaching staff? It is the fault of every other coach in the country who has not strived to get better in terms of Xs and Os or put more time into film watching and strategizing to play UConn?

But phrasing it the way Lin Dunn did seems to put the blame on UConn. Blaming UConn is like blaming Serena Williams for her dominance. Instead of worrying weather it is good or bad for the game, lets just focus on the amazing talent and coaching on display and wonder when other coaches/players will raise their own games in response.

Geno was quoted on this topic years ago and posed the question back (if memory serves) on why more ADs weren't demanding better results, beyond the wins and losses.

 

[Wonkster]

Geno was quoted on this topic years ago and posed the question back (if memory serves) on why more ADs weren't demanding better results, beyond the wins and losses.

I suspect many AD's are too unadventuresome to pay much attention to wcbb so they just take the easy route. Like the lazy Director of Information Technology who made the safe choice and bought IBM in the 1950's and '60's, when every other computer company offered more powerful systems for less money.

Safe choices.

 

[hoophuskee]

Sorry to be unclear….yes, UConn plays beautiful BB, the most elegant imaginable.

But your second point…for the good of the game…play as many (potentially) competitive games as required to further the sport.
The smaller conferences can wait.

So Stanford, Penn State and MD don't count? How many games vs tough competiton is your number? We didn't plan last year on being in a new conference this year, did we? So all of a sudden top 12 teams will be imediately available for us?

 

[hoophuskee]

Because she hasn't asked the question enough times, Lin Dunn repeated it on twitter this morning, leaving out the reference to UConn:

Lin Dunn ‏@coachlindunn 2h
Are routs in WBBall good for our game?

Can she just go away? If men's college basketball restricted players leaving for NBA dratf early, she doesn't think there would be huge routs in the men's game? And men's college basketball "ain't so hot." The routs are going to happen.

 

[easttexastrash]

Like Dunn's comment or not, the average basketball fan won't care to tune in to watch one team beat another team by 40 or 50 points. If I weren't a Baylor fan I would probably have zero interest in watching them play this pathetic schedule of theirs, but I enjoy watching the players and analyzing their development, not the games themselves. Only when Baylor finally plays a team of quality will the game hold much interet for me.

IMO, any team that completely dominates all of its opponents does not help the game as a whole. I enjoy watching UCONN for the talent level and beauty of how they play the game, but most fans are not going to tune in to watch a 100-30 game. And I think that is what Dunn is trying to say.

 

[ctkaiser]

Nan - I agree to a certain degree but I think it goes too far in many cases, to the point of minimizing excellence and preventing failure. And rewarding poor effort and indifference. If a person doesn't experience failure how do they learn to value their success? I think failure is a necessary experience in growing up. If you do not challenge yourself or your children and do not allow the chance of failure, what is the reward of success. If we do not allow kids to excel because we want to include everyone in everything, we are short changing our society from producing excellence.
At Uconn - we don't expect Polido or Lawlor to start any games or to play in competitive games, but I bet their skill level will improve more over the next few years than if they were getting 20 minutes a game on a really bad team.
I don't think we want to crush any child's psyche but we have to find a way to do that without stunting other children's potential. If we surround the really skilled players with mediocrity then there is little reason for them to play because they will not be challenged to improve nor be surrounded by enough skill to succeed.

Look at what former UConn players Lauren Englin (Boston College) and Michala Johnson (Wisconsin) are doing at their new schools. Making significant contributions on decent teams. Geno and his coaches develop players!

 

[hoophuskee]

Like Dunn's comment or not, the average basketball fan won't care to tune in to watch one team beat another team by 40 or 50 points. If I weren't a Baylor fan I would probably have zero interest in watching them play this pathetic schedule of theirs, but I enjoy watching the players and analyzing their development, not the games themselves. Only when Baylor finally plays a team of quality will the game hold much interet for me.

IMO, any team that completely dominates all of its opponents does not help the game as a whole. I enjoy watching UCONN for the talent level and beauty of how they play the game, but most fans are not going to tune in to watch a 100-30 game. And I think that is what Dunn is trying to say.

I'm much more skeptical than you. She singled out UCONN twice. Not once but twice. We are in a recruiting battle with the number 1 recruit from a team down south. She went to college down south- in of itself not a big deal but . . . I wonder if she coached or knows Staley well. Indiana just lost out on Nurse to boot. She not only mentiond UCONN twice but it appears she was arguing via tweet with college basketballl analysts DA and RL. A WNBA coach "arguing" via tweet with RL and DA. Using ONE SPECIFIC game in which we are playing a small college as her case in point. Wouldn't this happen in the men's game if men stayed 4 years? Wouldn't they annihilate smaller schools? To believe LD didn't know this is tough to swallow. This comes from someone who regularly "thinks ahead" in her job. I'm skeptcial that it was all just a simple mistake in how she said things. She could have elected to correct herself the 1st time instead of getting indignant (using exclmation point) by bringing up big schools vs small schools when she responded to DA and RL.

Her 1st tweet clealry talks of 4-5 teams. Then her 2nd tweet talks of us routing another team. Do we really believe if there were 4 or 5 teams as she suggested that there wouldn't be routs? Then the next tweet slams UCONN for it. It's almost as if she is talking from both sides of her mouth no matter how much you try to cover for her. If there are 4 or 5 teams elite then there are still going to be routs of the teams we played. So now she can re-tweet and say 5 teams are bad for the game? YOU are speifically saying if a team "dominates all its oppnents" its not good. Lin Dunn used our "Monmouth game" as a case in point. Was that fair? Anyhow, did we really crsuh Penn State? Didn't they cut the lead to single digits late in the 2nd half?

 

[easttexastrash]

I hope that Baylor is never in the unfortunate position of being so dominating that they are "bad for the game." How horrible that must feel.

 

[hoophuskee]

I hope that Baylor is never in the unfortunate position of being so dominating that they are "bad for the game." How horrible that must feel.

I think I know what you mean. I hope LD can wake up in the morning without tears gushing from her eyes after reading of another wcbb rout.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Lets be Dunn with Lin...I find it hard to believe that she was trying to belittle UCONN. Just my take.

 

[hoophuskee]

Lets be Dunn with Lin...I find it hard to believe that she was trying to belittle UCONN. Just my take.

I'm skeptical. Too much oddities and timing. No reason for her to mention UCONN twice. No reason for her to argue with RL and DA publicly even after the 1st tweet. No reason to speak of 4-5 teams in 1 tweet then the next tweet throw an exclamation point at RL citing a blowout vs. "Monmouth" as relevant. She appointed herself of the master of "what is good for the game?" Odd.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Did it ever occur to Lin that some of the so-called competitive teams don't want to get there backsides beat by UC

Yeah, wouldn't it be nice for UConn to have, like a seven game schedule each year. What sheer nonsense. Our job is to insure the game isn't competitive by bringing together outstanding talent and then coaching the hell out of them and then having them play to their potential for forty minutes. That should be the mission of every basketball coach in America. Even if your talent level is less, you can still do the last two items on the list. When Geno first got to UConn we were one of those teams with minimal talent and not very well coached (I assume) where we almost never had a winning record even while playing in a non competitive league. By maximizing their abilities, coaching fundamentals to the hilt and having them play intensely for 40 minutes, we started moving up, getting better and starting to draw the interest of better players. Voila, here we are, a perennial powerhouse and if we could do it, other programs can do it, or at least improve radically and become a really good and competitive program. It's not magic, it's hard work and patience that will help teams be able to compete against very, very good teams and have a chance to become a possible top 10 team that might push and compete with one of the "giants" of women's basketball with regularity.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Like Dunn's comment or not, the average basketball fan won't care to tune in to watch one team beat another team by 40 or 50 points. If I weren't a Baylor fan I would probably have zero interest in watching them play this pathetic schedule of theirs, but I enjoy watching the players and analyzing their development, not the games themselves. Only when Baylor finally plays a team of quality will the game hold much interet for me.

IMO, any team that completely dominates all of its opponents does not help the game as a whole. I enjoy watching UCONN for the talent level and beauty of how they play the game, but most fans are not going to tune in to watch a 100-30 game. And I think that is what Dunn is trying to say.

You know, of course, that UConn's "job" isn't putting people in the seats, it's playing basketball to the best of their abilities and making efforts to improve every day. They aren't the UConn Globetrotters whose mission is to amuse and entertain their audience. I think they want to entertain people by playing to their upmost and helping make others strive to improve themselves. If a team beat me bloody, it would motivate me to start working harder and making myself into a more complete player and helping my teammates maximize their abilities, as well. If Olympians or people striving to be Olympians had to concern themselves with not being too much better than their opponents because it might hurt their feelings, some of the magical moments that the Olympics provide, might never take place. Who wants that??????

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

You know, of course, that UConn's "job" isn't putting people in the seats, it's playing basketball to the best of their abilities and making efforts to improve every day. They aren't the UConn Globetrotters whose mission is to amuse and entertain their audience. I think they want to entertain people by playing to their upmost and helping make others strive to improve themselves. If a team beat me bloody, it would motivate me to start working harder and making myself into a more complete player and helping my teammates maximize their abilities, as well. If Olympians or people striving to be Olympians had to concern themselves with not being too much better than their opponents because it might hurt their feelings, some of the magical moments that the Olympics provide, might never take place. Who wants that??????

What I understand ETT to be saying - and I happen to agree - is completely separate from your point. UConn should go out and beat the crap out of anybody they can - almost everyone out there at the moment. It is neither UConn's problem or fault that they are a lot better than almost everyone.

However, I'm with ETT and Lin Dunn for that matter that this situation - which can freely be blamed on other teams not being able to make themselves better - simply does not create interest for the casual fan. It isn't UConn's excellence that is bad, but that there is a huge gulf between UConn, the "upper tier", and the rest of WBB.

Obviously, it isn't easy and I don't have a solution, but certainly ETT isn't picking on UConn; I don't personally think that was originally Dunn's aim either.

 

[Brad Palmer]

What's bad for the game isn't UConn, but the fact that you will NEVER see a Vermont-Duke men's type of near-upset. (1-4 Vermont was a 26-point road underdog and lost 91-90.) Heck, who was the last women's team with an RPI over 100 upset a top 10 team?

 

[triaddukefan]

What's bad for the game isn't UConn, but the fact that you will NEVER see a Vermont-Duke men's type of near-upset. (1-4 Vermont was a 26-point road underdog and lost 91-90.) Heck, who was the last women's team with an RPI over 100 upset a top 10 team?

How about bottom of the barrel VPI beating a top 10 Maryland team... in college park back in 2012. I imagine VPI had a RPI of over 150.

 

[doggydaddy]

How about bottom of the barrel VPI beating a top 10 Maryland team... in college park back in 2012. I imagine VPI had a RPI of over 150.

They ended the season at 221. I don't know what they were at the time of the game.

 

[Brad Palmer]

VPI? Is that Virginia Tech? If true, it's still the rare exception. And in men's basketball, you never see top teams with halftime scores such as 41-9 (UNC vs. Air Force a few weeks ago), or final game shooting percentages such as 14% (same game).

 

[DobbsRover2]

Checked the Sagarin women's site and it is a dismal record for the women's 100+ teams. They're 0-74 against top 25 teams. Nary a win. Over on the men's side, the 100+ teams are 0-93 against the top 25 teams. Nary a win. I guess you could look at the 0-19 difference as that the men are even more futile or that they challenge themselves more. But I just love how knowledgeable basketball fans throw out the usual old canards that are known to be totally true until you look at the facts and stats. But then we just go back to spouting the usual old canards.

And tell me what's so important about the ability of a 100+ team beating a top 10 team? Clearly, the top 10 team is just taking the lesser team too lightly and playing bad. Is that a good thing? If a top 10 team gets beaten by a really weak team like that, either they weren't really a top 10 team or they just suffered some major injuries. If #43 Wisconsin-Green Bay were to knock off a #10 MD, you would say, sure, good job, because they're a decent team within the realm of upset territory. But if #104 Providence pulls the same upset, you say that the Terps are mock turtles.

 

[Wonkster]

... it is extraordinary difficult to step up, and teams that have succeeded on a short term basis (Baylor for example) can't sustain it ...

This point was made by Fat Lew about 10 years ago ...

"Fat Lew" Perkins, UConn AD

 

[DobbsRover2]

VPI? Is that Virginia Tech? If true, it's still the rare exception. And in men's basketball, you never see top teams with halftime scores such as 41-9 (UNC vs. Air Force a few weeks ago), or final game shooting percentages such as 14% (same game).

Yeah, yeah, we know, and we've been hearing from all the MCBB chauvinists for years how bad the WCBB play is and how every other game is a blow-out, while there are upsets galore and all the games are so competitive in MCBB. Sure, universities don't support their WCBB teams much and many teams are poorly coached. Been there, heard that.

But what's all this ka-ka about "you never see top 10" men's teams with scores like (fill in the blank). With all the talk you hear from the MCBB chauvinists, you'd think that the first two games for the men's #5 team OK State had to be impossible. First a 117-62 drubbing of poor Mississippi St. where the halftime score was 63-29, and then a 93-40 pasting of Utah State, who shot less than 30% for the game. This is a men's game for well-trained athletes, remember. Arizona doubled up FDU by 100-50 in another game a little while ago that shows how close all of those top 10 MCBB games are.

We can all point to some aberration games in a sport, or we can just stop whining about them and focus on the good stuff, like all the many exciting games during this period of development in any basketball year and the fact that UConn playing some ball that is definitely worth watching.