Lin Dunn: UConn Bad for the Game | Page 5 | The Boneyard

Lin Dunn: UConn Bad for the Game

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
3,154
Reaction Score
3,170
Geno was quoted on this topic years ago and posed the question back (if memory serves) on why more ADs weren't demanding better results, beyond the wins and losses.

I suspect many AD's are too unadventuresome to pay much attention to wcbb so they just take the easy route. Like the lazy Director of Information Technology who made the safe choice and bought IBM in the 1950's and '60's, when every other computer company offered more powerful systems for less money.

Safe choices.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
7,096
Reaction Score
18,318
Sorry to be unclear….yes, UConn plays beautiful BB, the most elegant imaginable.

But your second point…for the good of the game…play as many (potentially) competitive games as required to further the sport.
The smaller conferences can wait.

So Stanford, Penn State and MD don't count? How many games vs tough competiton is your number? We didn't plan last year on being in a new conference this year, did we? So all of a sudden top 12 teams will be imediately available for us?
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
7,096
Reaction Score
18,318
Because she hasn't asked the question enough times, Lin Dunn repeated it on twitter this morning, leaving out the reference to UConn:

Lin Dunn ‏@coachlindunn 2h
Are routs in WBBall good for our game?

Can she just go away? If men's college basketball restricted players leaving for NBA dratf early, she doesn't think there would be huge routs in the men's game? And men's college basketball "ain't so hot." The routs are going to happen.
 
Last edited:

easttexastrash

Stay Classy!
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
9,582
Reaction Score
13,224
Like Dunn's comment or not, the average basketball fan won't care to tune in to watch one team beat another team by 40 or 50 points. If I weren't a Baylor fan I would probably have zero interest in watching them play this pathetic schedule of theirs, but I enjoy watching the players and analyzing their development, not the games themselves. Only when Baylor finally plays a team of quality will the game hold much interet for me.

IMO, any team that completely dominates all of its opponents does not help the game as a whole. I enjoy watching UCONN for the talent level and beauty of how they play the game, but most fans are not going to tune in to watch a 100-30 game. And I think that is what Dunn is trying to say.
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2013
Messages
617
Reaction Score
1,072
Nan - I agree to a certain degree but I think it goes too far in many cases, to the point of minimizing excellence and preventing failure. And rewarding poor effort and indifference. If a person doesn't experience failure how do they learn to value their success? I think failure is a necessary experience in growing up. If you do not challenge yourself or your children and do not allow the chance of failure, what is the reward of success. If we do not allow kids to excel because we want to include everyone in everything, we are short changing our society from producing excellence.
At Uconn - we don't expect Polido or Lawlor to start any games or to play in competitive games, but I bet their skill level will improve more over the next few years than if they were getting 20 minutes a game on a really bad team.
I don't think we want to crush any child's psyche but we have to find a way to do that without stunting other children's potential. If we surround the really skilled players with mediocrity then there is little reason for them to play because they will not be challenged to improve nor be surrounded by enough skill to succeed.
Look at what former UConn players Lauren Englin (Boston College) and Michala Johnson (Wisconsin) are doing at their new schools. Making significant contributions on decent teams. Geno and his coaches develop players!
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
7,096
Reaction Score
18,318
Like Dunn's comment or not, the average basketball fan won't care to tune in to watch one team beat another team by 40 or 50 points. If I weren't a Baylor fan I would probably have zero interest in watching them play this pathetic schedule of theirs, but I enjoy watching the players and analyzing their development, not the games themselves. Only when Baylor finally plays a team of quality will the game hold much interet for me.

IMO, any team that completely dominates all of its opponents does not help the game as a whole. I enjoy watching UCONN for the talent level and beauty of how they play the game, but most fans are not going to tune in to watch a 100-30 game. And I think that is what Dunn is trying to say.

I'm much more skeptical than you. She singled out UCONN twice. Not once but twice. We are in a recruiting battle with the number 1 recruit from a team down south. She went to college down south- in of itself not a big deal but . . . I wonder if she coached or knows Staley well. Indiana just lost out on Nurse to boot. She not only mentiond UCONN twice but it appears she was arguing via tweet with college basketballl analysts DA and RL. A WNBA coach "arguing" via tweet with RL and DA. Using ONE SPECIFIC game in which we are playing a small college as her case in point. Wouldn't this happen in the men's game if men stayed 4 years? Wouldn't they annihilate smaller schools? To believe LD didn't know this is tough to swallow. This comes from someone who regularly "thinks ahead" in her job. I'm skeptcial that it was all just a simple mistake in how she said things. She could have elected to correct herself the 1st time instead of getting indignant (using exclmation point) by bringing up big schools vs small schools when she responded to DA and RL.

Her 1st tweet clealry talks of 4-5 teams. Then her 2nd tweet talks of us routing another team. Do we really believe if there were 4 or 5 teams as she suggested that there wouldn't be routs? Then the next tweet slams UCONN for it. It's almost as if she is talking from both sides of her mouth no matter how much you try to cover for her. If there are 4 or 5 teams elite then there are still going to be routs of the teams we played. So now she can re-tweet and say 5 teams are bad for the game? YOU are speifically saying if a team "dominates all its oppnents" its not good. Lin Dunn used our "Monmouth game" as a case in point. Was that fair? Anyhow, did we really crsuh Penn State? Didn't they cut the lead to single digits late in the 2nd half?
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
7,096
Reaction Score
18,318
I hope that Baylor is never in the unfortunate position of being so dominating that they are "bad for the game." How horrible that must feel.

I think I know what you mean. I hope LD can wake up in the morning without tears gushing from her eyes after reading of another wcbb rout.
 
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
7,096
Reaction Score
18,318
Lets be Dunn with Lin...I find it hard to believe that she was trying to belittle UCONN. Just my take.

I'm skeptical. Too much oddities and timing. No reason for her to mention UCONN twice. No reason for her to argue with RL and DA publicly even after the 1st tweet. No reason to speak of 4-5 teams in 1 tweet then the next tweet throw an exclamation point at RL citing a blowout vs. "Monmouth" as relevant. She appointed herself of the master of "what is good for the game?" Odd.
 
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
2,916
Reaction Score
5,432
Did it ever occur to Lin that some of the so-called competitive teams don't want to get there backsides beat by UC
Yeah, wouldn't it be nice for UConn to have, like a seven game schedule each year. What sheer nonsense. Our job is to insure the game isn't competitive by bringing together outstanding talent and then coaching the hell out of them and then having them play to their potential for forty minutes. That should be the mission of every basketball coach in America. Even if your talent level is less, you can still do the last two items on the list. When Geno first got to UConn we were one of those teams with minimal talent and not very well coached (I assume) where we almost never had a winning record even while playing in a non competitive league. By maximizing their abilities, coaching fundamentals to the hilt and having them play intensely for 40 minutes, we started moving up, getting better and starting to draw the interest of better players. Voila, here we are, a perennial powerhouse and if we could do it, other programs can do it, or at least improve radically and become a really good and competitive program. It's not magic, it's hard work and patience that will help teams be able to compete against very, very good teams and have a chance to become a possible top 10 team that might push and compete with one of the "giants" of women's basketball with regularity.
 
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
2,916
Reaction Score
5,432
Like Dunn's comment or not, the average basketball fan won't care to tune in to watch one team beat another team by 40 or 50 points. If I weren't a Baylor fan I would probably have zero interest in watching them play this pathetic schedule of theirs, but I enjoy watching the players and analyzing their development, not the games themselves. Only when Baylor finally plays a team of quality will the game hold much interet for me.

IMO, any team that completely dominates all of its opponents does not help the game as a whole. I enjoy watching UCONN for the talent level and beauty of how they play the game, but most fans are not going to tune in to watch a 100-30 game. And I think that is what Dunn is trying to say.
You know, of course, that UConn's "job" isn't putting people in the seats, it's playing basketball to the best of their abilities and making efforts to improve every day. They aren't the UConn Globetrotters whose mission is to amuse and entertain their audience. I think they want to entertain people by playing to their upmost and helping make others strive to improve themselves. If a team beat me bloody, it would motivate me to start working harder and making myself into a more complete player and helping my teammates maximize their abilities, as well. If Olympians or people striving to be Olympians had to concern themselves with not being too much better than their opponents because it might hurt their feelings, some of the magical moments that the Olympics provide, might never take place. Who wants that??????
 

KnightBridgeAZ

Grand Canyon Knight
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,343
Reaction Score
9,129
You know, of course, that UConn's "job" isn't putting people in the seats, it's playing basketball to the best of their abilities and making efforts to improve every day. They aren't the UConn Globetrotters whose mission is to amuse and entertain their audience. I think they want to entertain people by playing to their upmost and helping make others strive to improve themselves. If a team beat me bloody, it would motivate me to start working harder and making myself into a more complete player and helping my teammates maximize their abilities, as well. If Olympians or people striving to be Olympians had to concern themselves with not being too much better than their opponents because it might hurt their feelings, some of the magical moments that the Olympics provide, might never take place. Who wants that??????
What I understand ETT to be saying - and I happen to agree - is completely separate from your point. UConn should go out and beat the crap out of anybody they can - almost everyone out there at the moment. It is neither UConn's problem or fault that they are a lot better than almost everyone.

However, I'm with ETT and Lin Dunn for that matter that this situation - which can freely be blamed on other teams not being able to make themselves better - simply does not create interest for the casual fan. It isn't UConn's excellence that is bad, but that there is a huge gulf between UConn, the "upper tier", and the rest of WBB.

Obviously, it isn't easy and I don't have a solution, but certainly ETT isn't picking on UConn; I don't personally think that was originally Dunn's aim either.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
279
Reaction Score
650
What's bad for the game isn't UConn, but the fact that you will NEVER see a Vermont-Duke men's type of near-upset. (1-4 Vermont was a 26-point road underdog and lost 91-90.) Heck, who was the last women's team with an RPI over 100 upset a top 10 team?
 

triaddukefan

Tobacco Road Gastronomer
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
19,888
Reaction Score
61,147
What's bad for the game isn't UConn, but the fact that you will NEVER see a Vermont-Duke men's type of near-upset. (1-4 Vermont was a 26-point road underdog and lost 91-90.) Heck, who was the last women's team with an RPI over 100 upset a top 10 team?

How about bottom of the barrel VPI beating a top 10 Maryland team... in college park back in 2012. I imagine VPI had a RPI of over 150.
 

doggydaddy

Grampysorus Rex
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
6,008
Reaction Score
8,970
How about bottom of the barrel VPI beating a top 10 Maryland team... in college park back in 2012. I imagine VPI had a RPI of over 150.
They ended the season at 221. I don't know what they were at the time of the game.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
279
Reaction Score
650
VPI? Is that Virginia Tech? If true, it's still the rare exception. And in men's basketball, you never see top teams with halftime scores such as 41-9 (UNC vs. Air Force a few weeks ago), or final game shooting percentages such as 14% (same game).
 

DobbsRover2

Slap me 10
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
4,329
Reaction Score
6,720
Checked the Sagarin women's site and it is a dismal record for the women's 100+ teams. They're 0-74 against top 25 teams. Nary a win. Over on the men's side, the 100+ teams are 0-93 against the top 25 teams. Nary a win. I guess you could look at the 0-19 difference as that the men are even more futile or that they challenge themselves more. But I just love how knowledgeable basketball fans throw out the usual old canards that are known to be totally true until you look at the facts and stats. But then we just go back to spouting the usual old canards.

And tell me what's so important about the ability of a 100+ team beating a top 10 team? Clearly, the top 10 team is just taking the lesser team too lightly and playing bad. Is that a good thing? If a top 10 team gets beaten by a really weak team like that, either they weren't really a top 10 team or they just suffered some major injuries. If #43 Wisconsin-Green Bay were to knock off a #10 MD, you would say, sure, good job, because they're a decent team within the realm of upset territory. But if #104 Providence pulls the same upset, you say that the Terps are mock turtles.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
3,154
Reaction Score
3,170
... it is extraordinary difficult to step up, and teams that have succeeded on a short term basis (Baylor for example) can't sustain it ...
This point was made by Fat Lew about 10 years ago ...

"Fat Lew" Perkins, UConn AD

 
Last edited:

DobbsRover2

Slap me 10
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
4,329
Reaction Score
6,720
VPI? Is that Virginia Tech? If true, it's still the rare exception. And in men's basketball, you never see top teams with halftime scores such as 41-9 (UNC vs. Air Force a few weeks ago), or final game shooting percentages such as 14% (same game).
Yeah, yeah, we know, and we've been hearing from all the MCBB chauvinists for years how bad the WCBB play is and how every other game is a blow-out, while there are upsets galore and all the games are so competitive in MCBB. Sure, universities don't support their WCBB teams much and many teams are poorly coached. Been there, heard that.

But what's all this ka-ka about "you never see top 10" men's teams with scores like (fill in the blank). With all the talk you hear from the MCBB chauvinists, you'd think that the first two games for the men's #5 team OK State had to be impossible. First a 117-62 drubbing of poor Mississippi St. where the halftime score was 63-29, and then a 93-40 pasting of Utah State, who shot less than 30% for the game. This is a men's game for well-trained athletes, remember. Arizona doubled up FDU by 100-50 in another game a little while ago that shows how close all of those top 10 MCBB games are.

We can all point to some aberration games in a sport, or we can just stop whining about them and focus on the good stuff, like all the many exciting games during this period of development in any basketball year and the fact that UConn playing some ball that is definitely worth watching.
 

semper

Paleographer
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,223
Reaction Score
1,852
Underlying it all is the feeling she may have had getting whupped by Maya (of course Maya got whupped by her team once too!). Look, she is sucking some really sour grapes.

What WCBB needs more than anything else is some truly great COACHING at the highest levels. When that happens, parity happens. Witness the battles between Muffet and Geno. When there is no learning, no plan, no great bball, parity goes out the window. Beautiful bball: it's the ONLY way to go!
 

FairView

Mad Man
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
2,337
Reaction Score
8,264
If you had an autistic child who never ever could win anything no matter how hard he tried, you might feel differently. At least once in their life at school kids need something...so matter how small, and to feel a moment of joyful recognition for who and what they are. This doesn't detract from the beautiful, the skilled, and the brilliant.
However, there is a major downside. As the father of a loving, trying autistic son who also has muscle tone issues and cognitive challenges, I've seen the joy of receiving a trophy that he would have no way of even competing for with typical kids. I also saw how receiving a trophy helped increase his understanding of both receiving and giving recognition for performance. He has grown from being somewhat indifferent about getting trophies to proudly reading each new one he receives aloud, while beaming, to my wife and I. He participates in special-needs baseball, basketball, fall soccer, spring soccer and bowling – that's a lot of trophies every year. And that leads to the downside ... every week or two my wife "reminds" me that it's almost time to build trophy shelves in his room, as available space is running out on top of his dresser and chest. And that's an assignment I can't find a way to weasel myself out of.
 

semper

Paleographer
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,223
Reaction Score
1,852
However, there is a major downside. As the father of a loving, trying autistic son who also has muscle tone issues and cognitive challenges, I've seen the joy of receiving a trophy that he would have no way of even competing for with typical kids. I also saw how receiving a trophy helped increase his understanding of both receiving and giving recognition for performance. He has grown from being somewhat indifferent about getting trophies to proudly reading each new one he receives aloud, while beaming, to my wife and I. He participates in special-needs baseball, basketball, fall soccer, spring soccer and bowling – that's a lot of trophies every year. And that leads to the downside ... every week or two my wife "reminds" me that it's almost time to build trophy shelves in his room, as available space is running out on top of his dresser and chest. And that's an assignment I can't find a way to weasel myself out of.

That's just GREAT. Congratulations. We never had this kind of thing.
 

easttexastrash

Stay Classy!
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
9,582
Reaction Score
13,224
What I understand ETT to be saying - and I happen to agree - is completely separate from your point. UConn should go out and beat the crap out of anybody they can - almost everyone out there at the moment. It is neither UConn's problem or fault that they are a lot better than almost everyone.

However, I'm with ETT and Lin Dunn for that matter that this situation - which can freely be blamed on other teams not being able to make themselves better - simply does not create interest for the casual fan. It isn't UConn's excellence that is bad, but that there is a huge gulf between UConn, the "upper tier", and the rest of WBB.

Obviously, it isn't easy and I don't have a solution, but certainly ETT isn't picking on UConn; I don't personally think that was originally Dunn's aim either.

In no way was I picking on UCONN. I enjoy watching UCONN because I enjoy seeing the game played so masterfully. And KBAZ, you interpreted my comments exactly as they were intended. UCONN is not bad for the game, but the results may be bad for the game as it causes some to lose interest. The same can be said for several other teams, until they play UCONN. Duke beat USC Upstate 123-40. Seriously, what average fan is going to tune in to watch an 83 point drubbing?
 

semper

Paleographer
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
2,223
Reaction Score
1,852
This is ridiculous. LD is ridiculous. Beautiful basketball is not bad for the game. More people need to learn how to play it. Then we will all be happier.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
312
Guests online
2,413
Total visitors
2,725

Forum statistics

Threads
160,165
Messages
4,219,575
Members
10,082
Latest member
Basingstoke


.
Top Bottom