Larry Bird - This will astound you! | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Larry Bird - This will astound you!

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Scud49 said:
Nope, nope, nope Jordy. McHale broke his foot the following year (86-87) Walton went down also, so they were never the same after 85-86. With Walton healthy, I remember the Celtics going out to LA and absolutely killing the Lakers that year. The 85-86 Celts could handle anybody.
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By the way, McHale broke his foot March 27, 1987. They lost that year to the Lakers without him 4-2.
 
Scud49 said:
Nope, nope, nope Jordy. McHale broke his foot the following year (86-87) Walton went down also, so they were never the same after 85-86. With Walton healthy, I remember the Celtics going out to LA and absolutely killing the Lakers that year. The 85-86 Celts could handle anybody.
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Again, to repeat:

"Well Kareem was 40 at that time with a laundry list of injuries, but still played well enough. Walton was always hurt almost from the minute he stepped off the UCLA campus and went to Portland. Yeah, and Walton was an old 34 at the time. People use to say his vegetarian diet contributed to him having "weak bones". Doubtful, but he was always plagued by injury. Two good teams, but basketball people still talk about "Showtime"." After '87 Boston of course beat LA in '08 and lost in '10'. As for "taking anybody", I'll take the Jordan Bulls in '92 or the Lakers of '84 with a younger Kareem.
 
JordyG said:
Yeah. Well Kareem was 40 at that time with a laundry list of injuries, but still played well enough. Walton was always hurt almost from the minute he stepped off the UCLA campus and went to Portland. Yeah, and Walton was an old 34 at the time. People use to say his vegetarian diet contributed to him having "weak bones". Doubtful, but he was always plagued by injury. Two good teams, but basketball people still talk about "Showtime".
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You had said something to the effect "They were the same teams." They weren't. Kareem may have had injuries - but it wasn't a broken foot. I don't think it's fair you compare age vs McHale's injury. OFC if you want to include Kareem's or Lew Alcnidor's prime years that would be different. That would be fantasy basketball. The 86-87 team had 40 yo Kareem. Not the prime Kareem.

And Kareem was playing. Walton really wasn't. So they weren't the same.
 
hoophuskee said:
You had said something to the effect "They were the same teams." They weren't. Kareem may have had injuries - but it wasn't a broken foot. I don't think it's fair you compare age vs McHale's injury. OFC if you want to include Kareem's or Lew Alcnidor's prime years that would be different. That would be fantasy basketball. The 86-87 team had 40 yo Kareem. Not the prime Kareem.

And Kareem was playing. Walton really wasn't. So they weren't the same.
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I agree somewhat. I clearly misspoke on the year of McHale's injury. Comparing a frankly over the hill Jabbar to an injured player isn't the same. Yet saying if McHale or Walton wasn't injured the results would have been different is fantasy basketball as well. You just don't know what the outcome would have been. I do know that a healthy Walton was the rarity, not the norm. And McHale's injury did occur and they did lose. Again, two great teams, many HOF-ers. I'll still take Showtime any day.
 
JordyG said:
I agree somewhat. I clearly misspoke on the year of McHale's injury. Comparing a frankly over the hill Jabbar to an injured player isn't the same. Yet saying if McHale or Walton wasn't injured the results would have been different is fantasy basketball as well. You just don't know what the outcome would have been. I do know that a healthy Walton was the rarity, not the norm. And McHale's injury did occur and they did lose. Again, two great teams, many HOF-ers. I'll still take Showtime any day.
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Yes but Walton was relatively healthy in 85-86. And so was McHale. The question was IF THAT 85-86 Celts team was healthy, in which they were healthy in 85-86, how would they do vs the healthy 86-87 Lakers? IMO looking at Walton's whole career is irrelevant. You should look at what he did in 85-86. Walton was so good in 85-86, that vs Houston, on a per minute basis, his stats were superior to Robert Parish.

McHale had a broken foot in 87. He didn't have it in 86.

And you're right - we are talking 85-86 Celts vs 86-87 Lakers. That's fantasy basketball. Great matchup.
 
hoophuskee said:
Yes but Walton was relatively healthy in 85-86. And so was McHale. The question was IF THAT 85-86 Celts team was healthy, in which they were healthy in 85-86, how would they do vs the healthy 86-87 Lakers? IMO looking at Walton's whole career is irrelevant. You should look at what he did in 85-86. Walton was so good in 85-86, that vs Houston, on a per minute basis, his stats were superior to Robert Parish.

McHale had a broken foot in 87. He didn't have it in 86.

And you're right - we are talking 85-86 Celts vs 86-87 Lakers. That's fantasy basketball. Great matchup.
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Want fantasy? The the '96 Bulls plays the '15 Warriors UNDER TODAY'S RULES, and the winners play each other. Fantasy all over the place.
 
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That was a period when I loved watching the pros and it was shortly after that I stopped following it with the same passion and eventually just stopped - it was still a team game where defense was permitted and players while spectacularly talented were still somewhat limited athletically - they hadn't completely outgrown the dimensions of the court.

And I remember talking to a dancer friend of mine who was on tour in Alaska and looking for distractions in her hotel room and happened on a Celtic game - first pro basketball (or any basketball) that she had ever really watched. With little point of reference she was amazed at Bird's vision and spacial awareness of everyone on the floor and ability to track where they would be in two or three seconds. She actually started seeking out his games.

There is almost a quality of the Harlem Globe Trotters to much of that highlight reel, except he is playing against fellow professionals trying to win, but he is still able to make them look as silly as the Washington Generals.
 
UcMiami said:
That was a period when I loved watching the pros and it was shortly after that I stopped following it with the same passion and eventually just stopped - it was still a team game where defense was permitted and players while spectacularly talented were still somewhat limited athletically - they hadn't completely outgrown the dimensions of the court.

And I remember talking to a dancer friend of mine who was on tour in Alaska and looking for distractions in her hotel room and happened on a Celtic game - first pro basketball (or any basketball) that she had ever really watched. With little point of reference she was amazed at Bird's vision and spacial awareness of everyone on the floor and ability to track where they would be in two or three seconds. She actually started seeking out his games.

There is almost a quality of the Harlem Globe Trotters to much of that highlight reel, except he is playing against fellow professionals trying to win, but he is still able to make them look as silly as the Washington Generals.
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I still think Bird doesn't get the props he deserves among basketball viewers today. To me, although many consider Jordan to be the greatest player they ever saw Bird was to me the more interesting to watch. Like I've said before, the refs and the Association protected Jordan and he became a brand. Not Bird or Magic nearly as much.
 
JordyG said:
I still think Bird doesn't get the props he deserves among basketball viewers today. To me, although many consider Jordan to be the greatest player they ever saw Bird was to me the more interesting to watch. Like I've said before, the refs and the Association protected Jordan and he became a brand. Not Bird or Magic nearly as much.
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Bird didn't demand it... he rode of into the sunset, plus his back issues cut his career kind of shorter than expected. Bird was too simple and wasn't great for TV ratings after his career was over. Jordan has stories but doesn't have personality. Shaq and Magic on the other hand are pure entertainment
 
DaddyChoc said:
Johnny Most was a clown, a complete homer!

Kareem skyhooked the Celtics to death and they hated that it was unstoppable
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"Johnny Most was a clown, a complete homer!"
That's why he was so popular with Celtic fans. Being partisan is being a fan.
A fan might respect an opposing player, but it doesn't mean they love the player.
NBA finals are war, at least it felt that way when the Celtics, Pistons, and Lakers played each other.

"Kareem skyhooked the Celtics to death and they hated that it was unstoppable"
The Celtics were far from helpless against him and caused him and the Lakers plenty of problems themselves.
 
shinobimono said:
"Johnny Most was a clown, a complete homer!"
That's why he was so popular with Celtic fans. Being partisan is being a fan.
A fan might respect an opposing player, but it doesn't mean they love the player.
NBA finals are war, at least it felt that way when the Celtics, Pistons, and Lakers played each other.

"Kareem skyhooked the Celtics to death and they hated that it was unstoppable"
The Celtics were far from helpless against him and caused him and the Lakers plenty of problems themselves.
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you're a Celtics fan

I'm a Lakers fan and I think Larry Legend was great, loved that guy! (saying this with Showtime Shades on) I'm fair, they all whined to the refs... complained, wanted clarification etc (shrugs).

McHale was a beast in the paint, twist and turn, footwork was nice... Mr BirdChest!

DJ, Ainge, Cornbread, Cowens, Tiny... nothing against the Celtics.

but don't act like Kareem was a slouch... you lose credibility that way
 
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shinobimono said:
As I mentioned in an earlier post, announcer Johnny Most harangued Kareem for whining, which fanned fan hatred for him. He targeted certain players and teams for special treatment. I tried to find some examples of his rants against Kareem, but I did find this one against the Detroit Piston and some of their players. I've heard much worse from him than you'll hear in this audio. Enjoy!

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I was at The Gahden the night they honored Johnny Most. John Havlicek presented a gift from the players (a silver tray IIRC). As he made the presentation he chided Johnny: "Remember, I'm the guy who made you famous." ;)

A raucous cheer erupted from the crowd. :D
 
JordyG said:
By the way, McHale broke his foot March 27, 1987. They lost that year to the Lakers without him 4-2.
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And Bird's back started to get bad, after which, the East was owned by Detroit and Chicago for thensuing eight seasons of the next decade.
 
shinobimono said:
Yes, incredibly I have seen a few replays of both NBA and college players hitting shots from behind the backboard, though I can't remember who. Actually, it's a more commonly made shot than you think. Check out this link for the NBA's top 10 behind-the-backboard shots (Bird accounts for two of them).

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Those should be 4-pointers.
 
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Sonny44 said:
The shot at 4.37 from behind the net. Has anyone else ever done that in a game?
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I was there; at the Civic Center. The basket did not count, but he laughed about it.
 
DaddyChoc said:
Bird didn't demand it... he rode of into the sunset, plus his back issues cut his career kind of shorter than expected. Bird was too simple and wasn't great for TV ratings after his career was over. Jordan has stories but doesn't have personality. Shaq and Magic on the other hand are pure entertainment
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All 100 % true. Yet one thing Bird did demand. My respect, and he's welcome to it, and he deserves the love given him here.
 
Great video Sonny44, thanks!

Thanks also to Red Auerbach, for drafting Larry a year early, and for fleecing Golden State for Parish and McHale in exchange for Joe Barry Carroll. I was a huge Bird fan, and Havlicek before him.

I recently watched a game from the 1984 Championship, the only time the Celtics with Larry beat Lakers in the finals. (Other two championships were both against Houston.) By today`s standards, the players look skinny. Also, the three pointer, instituted in the NBA in 1979, was not the weapon it is today.

Larry played from 1979 to 1992. (Yikes, it has been almost 25 years!) He made 8,591 field goals, but only 649, 0r 7.5%, were three pointers. In 1983-1984, amazingly he only took 73 threes and was 18 for 73. The most he made in a season was 98 in 76 games in 1987-1988.

We know that KLS is a fan of Larry, and that she wears 33 for that reason. She has taken more three pointers in 11 games this year than he took in all of 1983-1984 (79 games). Through a career of 48 games thus far, she has 115 three pointers, or 17 more than Larry had in his most prolific three point season. (I do recognize the college three point line for men and women is a bit shorter than the NBA three point line.)

So while we think of Bird as a long range shooter, and he was quite proficient in that regard, his offense was really a mid-range game. Even when he posted up, if he shot he usually ended up taking a 10-15 footer.
 
MilfordHusky said:
Probably the best shot in the history of the sport.
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3rdbass I was truly amazed at it today while watching the posted video. The hook was unstoppable, the defender had NO chance and he was able to shoot it with the left or right from as far out as 15ft. amazing
 
MilfordHusky said:
Probably the best shot in the history of the sport.
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It was. Only "the dunk" could surpass that shot. What an absolutely great spectacular player Lew Alcindor./Kareem Jabbar was. And he was playing great until 40 - just wow!

Did Lakers ever put up a statue for him? It's a crime if they don't have for him but have it for the others.
 
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hoophuskee said:
It was. Only "the dunk" could surpass that shot. What an absolutely great spectacular player Lew Alcindor./Kareem Jabbar was. And he was playing great until 40 - just wow!

Did Lakers ever put up a statue for him? It's a crime if they don't have for him but have it for the others.
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Adande: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar statue reminds franchise in transition of its great legacy
i
 
BroadwayVa said:
One of my favorite games was when Larry Bird and Indiana U played Sidney Moncriet and JR Reed (Arkansas) --National Championship down to the wire--and entertaining all the way!!

Merry Christmas.
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Larry Bird at Indiana State against Sidney Moncrief and U.S. Reed in the Elite Eight.

But, other than that, your memory is spot on :)
 
bove

But, other than that, your memory is spot on :)[/QUOTE]
You will I just said Indiana--not U Indiana or Indiana U---(which I knew were wrong) I knew he was from an "odd ball " name school--
Thanks for the indiana State ---I'd say my memory failed me but Indiana State was pretty obscure--larry put them on the high lights .
Thanks for correcting my Sidney Monciet --to proper spelling Moncrief--US Reed --his daddy was a Doctor
A favorite of mine on that Eddie Sutton team--There others on that team who earned my respect--my my memory will also fail to spell them correctly too.

Three Men's NC or final 4's remain as high lights to me--the one above , the Michigan where the Fab five blew the game--calling a time out when they had none left--technical---and the game Uconn beat Duke for the NC--Moore,Rip , Alamen, "We shocked the World!!"

The Fab Five the team i loved to hate!!! (I don't hate any more actually I didn't hate them--I liked to see them lose)
 
Zorro said:
Indiana State, actually, wasn't it?
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yes Indiana State and JR Reed played for North Carolina...US Reed played for Arkansas...and the game was a regional final not final four...just saying
 
JordyG said:
I still think Bird doesn't get the props he deserves among basketball viewers today. To me, although many consider Jordan to be the greatest player they ever saw Bird was to me the more interesting to watch. Like I've said before, the refs and the Association protected Jordan and he became a brand. Not Bird or Magic nearly as much.
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Different days---different fans. You are right that Jordan became a "brand"---to me Jordan earned and deserves respect for what he did as a player---equally with out hesitation I say Magic (a minor brand) and Bird at talent wise at that level. I missed few games in College of Jordan--saw a few of Birds --he and Magic i followed in the pros---and I was not much of Pro's Fan.
 
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