Lakers get Davis

[superjohn]

So you would trade Tatum, Smart/Brown, the Memphis pick, 1-2 more picks, and 2 picks swaps for what's likely to be 1 year of Davis? Kyrie flaking out completely took out the ground under Ainge's feet. I saw Rich Paul's threats as hollow when I thought the Celtics would be resigning Kyrie. Now they look like fair warning.

Not getting Kawhi was probably a mistake (especially if Tatum wasn't a necessary part) but let's say he clashes with Kyrie (not unlikely), we don't win a title (not unlikely), and they both go their separate ways this offseason (not unlikely). None of this is as obvious as some people would like to believe.

Masai looks like a genius but what if KD wasn't hurt, the Raps lose, and Kawhi bolts?

If I were Ainge I would have done whatever it takes to get a superstar. They don't come up often and I don't think any one of the Celtics pieces is all that great on their own.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Really comes down to the fact whether you're happy to always be in contention for the Conference semi's or to win the whole damn thing.

To me, I'd rather risk sucking for awhile for a legitimate 1-2 year window of winning a title.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Really comes down to the fact whether you're happy to always be in contention for the Conference semi's or to win the whole damn thing.

To me, I'd rather risk sucking for awhile for a legitimate 1-2 year window of winning a title.

Yeah, and I'm the opposite. I don't mind a bit of a risk, like getting Irving. But I don't like mortgaging the future for a very short window. There's too much luck involved in NBA titles, and too much uncertainty in the draft.

 

[lange10]

It's not only that, but if the Lakers only end up with 5-6 guys that can actually play, and AD or Lebron even miss a couple of weeks, the Lakers could go into tailspins. It doesn't take many 2-6 stretches over two week periods to turn a 3 seed into an 8 seed or non-playoff team.

We'll see. All I know is the Lakers were irrelevant two offseasons ago and have since added Lebron and AD. Regardless of how the rest of the roster shakes out, that's a win.

 

[nomar]

If I were Ainge I would have done whatever it takes to get a superstar. They don't come up often and I don't think any one of the Celtics pieces is all that great on their own.

If you were Ainge and you traded the assets I enumerated above for 1 year of Anthony Davis, the superjohns of the world would absolutely torch you a year from now when Davis signs with the Lakers.

 

[superjohn]

If you were Ainge and you traded the assets I enumerated above for 1 year of Anthony Davis, the superjohns of the world would absolutely torch you a year from now when Davis signs with the Lakers.

Lol, you don't think Ainge and the Celtics are getting torched?

 

[gtcam]

Kyrie is an extremely talented player but he has a personality and attitude that just turns teammates off
It was like that Duke and Cleveland.
K did nothing about it because Kyrie was a 1 and done and K knew that but he was a disease on the Duke squad for the limited time he played and in the locker room.
In Cleveland he was the also-ran to LeBron - he played and acted like it
Stevens thought he could change the guy and it looked like, for a brief time period, he could mold him into a "team player" but in the end it was evident that was not happening.
In many ways, I really miss IT - the team, for the majority, loved playing with him.
IMHO the Hayward trade was not a good move, always felt the guy is limited and lacks an overall game. If you could combine Hayward and Brown then you have a superstar
To me, the team needs to keep Tatum, Smart, AH, Rozier, Marcus M, Baynes (or Theis) and I think Ojeleye shows a nice upside
Kemba would look nice in Celtics green and white

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Yeah, and I'm the opposite. I don't mind a bit of a risk, like getting Irving. But I don't like mortgaging the future for a very short window. There's too much luck involved in NBA titles, and too much uncertainty in the draft.

I'd actually argue the opposite. There's not much luck in the NBA finals. The best team usually wins in the NBA way more often than compared to other sports.

Sure this year had injuries, but look at the history of the NBA finals - it's whoever has the best player making a run damn near every year.

 

[the Q]

Kyrie is an extremely talented player but he has a personality and attitude that just turns teammates off
It was like that Duke and Cleveland.
K did nothing about it because Kyrie was a 1 and done and K knew that but he was a disease on the Duke squad for the limited time he played and in the locker room.
In Cleveland he was the also-ran to LeBron - he played and acted like it
Stevens thought he could change the guy and it looked like, for a brief time period, he could mold him into a "team player" but in the end it was evident that was not happening.
In many ways, I really miss IT - the team, for the majority, loved playing with him.
IMHO the Hayward trade was not a good move, always felt the guy is limited and lacks an overall game. If you could combine Hayward and Brown then you have a superstar
To me, the team needs to keep Tatum, Smart, AH, Rozier, Marcus M, Baynes (or Theis) and I think Ojeleye shows a nice upside
Kemba would look nice in Celtics green and white

Stevens got kyrie to play defense.

That alone is accomplishment

 

[nomar]

Lol, you don't think Ainge and the Celtics are getting torched?

Yeah, you're just making my point. I know you don't get that. Forget it.

 

[superjohn]

Yeah, you're just making my point. I know you don't get that. Forget it.

The point is who cares if you get torched, the goal is to win a championship. You think collecting assets for years in an attempt to do everything to get a certain superstar and then balk at the end and miss out on that superstar is the right strategy for winning a championship, I disagree.

 

[husky429]

That kid’s what, 19 now? What do you expect

Didn't know his age. Makes a little more sense now.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Ainge did everything right, until he didn't. He made every proper move and stockpiled the best collection of assets. But if the grand result of the plan is paying Gordon Hayward $30+ Million a year for four years, and two empty years of Kyrie....it was bust. Not to mention Hayward is an Unrestricted Free Agent after the 20-21 season.

Boston is not now, nor will it ever be a destination city for prime free agents. He knows that better than anyone. Tatum better turn out to be an All-NBA caliber player or Ainge will look like an idiot in five years.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Ainge did everything right, until he didn't. He made every proper move and stockpiled the best collection of assets. But if the grand result of the plan is paying Gordon Hayward $30+ Million a year for four years, and two empty years of Kyrie....it was bust. Not to mention Hayward is an Unrestricted Free Agent after the 20-21 season.

Boston is not now, nor will it ever be a destination city for prime free agents. He knows that better than anyone. Tatum better turn out to be an All-NBA caliber player or Ainge will look like an idiot in five years.

Free agents go where they can win. Oakland and San Antonio are hardly big draws. James went back to Cleveland because it's his hometown and Irving was there. He went to Miami for D-Wade. Lakers are always a draw, but the Clippers have the same location and have never made a final. NO, OKC, Memphis and even Denver never got there.

Boston has history and good fan support, and is more attractive than most teams in the league. Players will go there if they think they can win and like the other guys that are there. I'm not sure how you can complain about paying Hayward $30M and in the same post say him leaving is an issue. That's Giannis' FA year I believe. What the Celtics are lacking right now more than anything, is a leader. They need a Kevin Garnett type personality. Brown may turn into that.

 

[the Q]

Free agents go where they can win. Oakland and San Antonio are hardly big draws. James went back to Cleveland because it's his hometown and Irving was there. He went to Miami for D-Wade. Lakers are always a draw, but the Clippers have the same location and have never made a final. NO, OKC, Memphis and even Denver never got there.

Boston has history and good fan support, and is more attractive than most teams in the league. Players will go there if they think they can win and like the other guys that are there. I'm not sure how you can complain about paying Hayward $30M and in the same post say him leaving is an issue. That's Giannis' FA year I believe. What the Celtics are lacking right now more than anything, is a leader. They need a Kevin Garnett type personality. Brown may turn into that.

For the giannis year it will be interesting to see if they have cap room. Brown will have a new deal I’d be gone. And you know tatum will get a big offer early that summer.

 

[nomar]

The point is who cares if you get torched, the goal is to win a championship. You think collecting assets for years in an attempt to do everything to get a certain superstar and then balk at the end and miss out on that superstar is the right strategy for winning a championship, I disagree.

The point is, do you think the Celtics would win the 2020 title, with Davis and without Tatum, Smart and Kyrie? Because that's the only shot you'd get. So do you?

 

[navery12]

The point is, do you think the Celtics would win the 2020 title, with Davis and without Tatum, Smart and Kyrie? Because that's the only shot you'd get. So do you?

I think they would be the favorite, yes

 

[HuskyHawk]

For the giannis year it will be interesting to see if they have cap room. Brown will have a new deal I’d be gone. And you know tatum will get a big offer early that summer.

Here's how it looks. Boston Celtics 2020-21 Salary Cap
Kyrie will be off the books.
Hayward may or may not be. Player option.
Al will hopefully sign a new 3 year deal this year to lower his cap hit
Brown will be a RFA I believe, should command much less than a Max deal. His hold number is $8.7
Tatum would be on his rookie deal. He's not a RFA until 21-22

So even if Hayward stays, as long as Al signs a new deal, there is only one Max contract on the roster. They should have room.

 

[superjohn]

The point is, do you think the Celtics would win the 2020 title, with Davis and without Tatum, Smart and Kyrie? Because that's the only shot you'd get. So do you?

It's tough to say who would win it all but they would certainly be right there and maybe in the driver's seat. I don't see them as any sort of contender as it stands.

Ainge accumulated the most assets and put all his eggs in one basket and has nothing to show for it. This is when first team all NBA guys Kawhi, AD, Durant, and Paul George are available which is rare.

 

[huskiesouth]

The point is, do you think the Celtics would win the 2020 title, with Davis and without Tatum, Smart and Kyrie? Because that's the only shot you'd get. So do you?

Take that Celtic roster (Tatum, Smart and Irving gone, Davis in, everyone else remains) and compare it to the Pelicans roster when Davis was still there. I'm a Celtic homer since the Aurebach era, but don't see that great a difference in the remaining Celtics supporting Davis and the support Davis had in NO. IMHO definitely don't see that hypothetical Celtic team even making the finals never mind winning the title.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Take that Celtic roster (Tatum, Smart and Irving gone, Davis in, everyone else remains) and compare it to the Pelicans roster when Davis was still there. I'm a Celtic homer since the Aurebach era, but don't see that great a difference in the remaining Celtics supporting Davis and the support Davis had in NO. IMHO definitely don't see that hypothetical Celtic team even making the finals never mind winning the title.

Too many unknowns. Hayward next year is likely better than anybody he had with him in NO. But who's the PG on that team? Is Rozier back? Otherwise you have Brad Wannamaker and zero other ball handlers.

All I can say is that this is going to be an interesting off season. Lots of moves from Boston and many other teams still to come.

 

[the Q]

Too many unknowns. Hayward next year is likely better than anybody he had with him in NO. But who's the PG on that team? Is Rozier back? Otherwise you have Brad Wannamaker and zero other ball handlers.

All I can say is that this is going to be an interesting off season. Lots of moves from Boston and many other teams still to come.

Probably Not better than a healthy cousins, but those guys are clearly the two best players he’s played with.

 

[husky429]

Lol, you don't think Ainge and the Celtics are getting torched?

You're using a red herring here. Why trade all that for ONE YEAR of Davis. The trade would have happened but Davis wants LA. You haven't answered that yet.

Boston isn't a free agent destination because of things unrelated to basketball. Everything else spiraled. That's all this came down to.

 

[superjohn]

You're using a red herring here. Why trade all that for ONE YEAR of Davis. The trade would have happened but Davis wants LA. You haven't answered that yet.

Boston isn't a free agent destination because of things unrelated to basketball. Everything else spiraled. That's all this came down to.

Why would Ainge not make moves for years, not bringing in veterans who could have helped them compete for a championship all to gain assets for a free agent who wouldn't come there?

 

[husky429]

Why would Ainge not make moves for years, not bringing in veterans who could have helped them compete for a championship all to gain assets for a free agent who wouldn't come there?

Because it was years ago and he didn't know..you're acting like GMs can read minds

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Free agents go where they can win. Oakland and San Antonio are hardly big draws. James went back to Cleveland because it's his hometown and Irving was there. He went to Miami for D-Wade. Lakers are always a draw, but the Clippers have the same location and have never made a final. NO, OKC, Memphis and even Denver never got there.

Boston has history and good fan support, and is more attractive than most teams in the league. Players will go there if they think they can win and like the other guys that are there. I'm not sure how you can complain about paying Hayward $30M and in the same post say him leaving is an issue. That's Giannis' FA year I believe. What the Celtics are lacking right now more than anything, is a leader. They need a Kevin Garnett type personality. Brown may turn into that.

All that is true and yet Boston still isn't a destination organization for free agents. Their hopes rest on Kyrie returning, if the even want him back. Name 4 tier 1 Free Agents who chose Boston. Hell, name three.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Why would Ainge not make moves for years, not bringing in veterans who could have helped them compete for a championship all to gain assets for a free agent who wouldn't come there?

What "years" are you even talking about? He knew Pierce and Garnett were expiring assets and traded them for picks. That was in 2013. It was a rebuild. He traded away Rondo in Dec 2014. He traded for IT in Jan 2015 on a deal that was a great win for Boston and it sped up the rebuild. He signed Horford to a 4 year deal in 2016. In 2017 he signed Gordon Hayward and traded for Irving. When was he not "making moves"?

I don't buy it. He's much smarter than to have all his eggs in one basket. I have no doubt that the move to get Irving was Plan A to lure Davis. I have no doubt that he had all along, a Plan B, Plan C etc. We will find out what those are. He's still loaded with chips right now.

 

[HuskyHawk]

All that is true and yet Boston still isn't a destination organization for free agents. Their hopes rest on Kyrie returning, if the even want him back. Name 4 tier 1 Free Agents who chose Boston. Hell, name three.

Name 4 tier one free agents that chose any team other than the Lakers in this century. Horford and Hayward signed with Boston. Who else has landed anybody? GS got Durant. Lebron went to Miami and then Cleveland and then LA. Shaq to LA. Bosh to Miami. Chris Paul to the Clippers I guess. Who else?

 

[superjohn]

What "years" are you even talking about? He knew Pierce and Garnett were expiring assets and traded them for picks. That was in 2013. It was a rebuild. He traded away Rondo in Dec 2014. He traded for IT in Jan 2015 on a deal that was a great win for Boston and it sped up the rebuild. He signed Horford to a 4 year deal in 2016. In 2017 he signed Gordon Hayward and traded for Irving. When was he not "making moves"?

I don't buy it. He's much smarter than to have all his eggs in one basket. I have no doubt that the move to get Irving was Plan A to lure Davis. I have no doubt that he had all along, a Plan B, Plan C etc. We will find out what those are. He's still loaded with chips right now.

Yes, Ainge did a great job in the past getting players and assets but he hasn't converted any of those assets into obtaining stars. Irving was pissed about Ainge holding onto all the assets and not using them for veteran help for the playoffs.

 

[Walker11]

I'm gonna have to disagree with the take that San Francisco isn't an appealing free agent destination. Or rather, that it only is because of the quality team.