Lakers get Davis

[superjohn]

And??? You’re bashing Ainge, and suggesting he got outmaneuvered by the Lakers simply because they had LeBron fall into their lap and then traded the farm for Davis. The Lakers aren’t likely to win next year — but they are likely to be a crappy west coast version of the Pelicans for years to come.

You’re a Knicks fan, right? I get that you want to enjoy some schadenfraude from seeing your team’s exponentially more successful rival have some problems, but pretending like you’re smarter than Danny Ainge isn’t very convincing.

Like I said, in retrospect, he probably should’ve traded for Leonard — but that’s mostly the case because KD and Klay went down. Raps got lucky. Was he supposed to know Hayward would suffer a grisly injury? Was he supposed to know Kyrie (who he got for next to nothing) would leave for no good reason, pretty much killing Ainge’s chance to get Davis to agree to stay in Boston past 1 year? Most of the criticism is 20/20 hindsight. Clear-headed people can see that.

And how ‘bout them Knicks?!

The Knicks suck and are not rivals with the Celtics, you have to win some to be considered rivals. The Celtics are the one Boston team I like and I hate the Lakers but I call things straight.

This isn't difficult, I've always liked Danny Ainge but being unwilling to include Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum in trades for Kawhi and AD is just bad. It's not outmaneuvered, it's being a wuss.

I never thought Hayward was that great and giving $32 mil per year to a wing guy when you already have two other younger wing guys you're unwilling to trade for superstars just doesn't make sense.

 

[Walker11]

The Knicks suck and are not rivals with the Celtics, you have to win some to be considered rivals. The Celtics are the one Boston team I like and I hate the Lakers but I call things straight.

This isn't difficult, I've always liked Danny Ainge but being unwilling to include Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum in trades for Kawhi and AD is just bad. It's not outmaneuvered, it's being a wuss.

and giving $32 mil per year to a wing guy when you already have two other younger wing guys you're unwilling to trade for superstars just doesn't make sense.

He put all his eggs into the AD basket. We have been hearing that the Celtics have targeted him for what, 4 years? And if it wasn't for the Rose rule, they probably do trade for AD last year and return/re-sign both Kyrie and AD, setting themselves up as the favorite for the foreseeable future. He would be insane to trade for AD right now.

 

[Walker11]

Right so there is just no more cap to clear. I mean there’s the luxury tax... it’s how each decade’s dynasty was made (showtime lakers, MJ bulls, Kobe/Shaq Lakers, GSW).

Jeanie has money

You can't just sign FAs and deal with the luxury tax. You can retain and resign players over the cap. The Warriors will be paying so much tax because they initially were paying Steph like 11 mil per year and then re-upped him at 40 million per year. Klay was making maybe 16 and now he will make 32.

 

[superjohn]

He put all his eggs into the AD basket. We have been hearing that the Celtics have targeted him for what, 4 years? And if it wasn't for the Rose rule, they probably do trade for AD last year and return/re-sign both Kyrie and AD, setting themselves up as the favorite for the foreseeable future. He would be insane to trade for AD right now.

That's a major failure, not making moves for veterans for years all to keep assets to get AD and then he doesn't get AD. Putting all your eggs in one basket and left holding your **** is one of the things we destroyed Ollie over.

I've never understood getting a ton of assets if you're not willing to part with them to bring in superstars.

 

[Deuce]

People predicted the Celtics to be in the finals this year, how did that work out?

Since dj won't answer the question I'll pose it to you. As of now who do you think has a better chance at winning it all next year, Celtics or Lakers?

You’re one to talk about predictions. You literally have by far the worse track record of any poster on here. You’re predictions and takes are awful.

 

[superjohn]

You’re one to talk about predictions. You literally have by far the worse track record of any poster on here. You’re predictions and takes are awful.

You've added a ton to this board. Thanks for the input.

 

[husky429]

You’re one to talk about predictions. You literally have by far the worse track record of any poster on here. You’re predictions and takes are awful.

We definitely need to start keeping a tally of predictions. I would imagine I'm down there with the worst of them when it comes to NBA stuff.

But if we're talking recruiting and ucmbb, Ucann definitely takes the crown.

 

[Rocktheworld]

We definitely need to start keeping a tally of predictions. I would imagine I'm down there with the worst of them when it comes to NBA stuff.

But if we're talking recruiting and ucmbb, Ucann definitely takes the crown.

That kid’s what, 19 now? What do you expect

 

[the Q]

He put all his eggs into the AD basket. We have been hearing that the Celtics have targeted him for what, 4 years? And if it wasn't for the Rose rule, they probably do trade for AD last year and return/re-sign both Kyrie and AD, setting themselves up as the favorite for the foreseeable future. He would be insane to trade for AD right now.

Danny knew of the rose rule when he traded for Kyrie. Which was mistake domino 1. He keeps that Brooklyn pick (which never should’ve gone with it going) and you can still make a kawhi deal. And if he just smartly trades IT without getting Kyrie back Davis is probably already a Celtic.

 

[the Q]

That's a major failure, not making moves for veterans for years all to keep assets to get AD and then he doesn't get AD. Putting all your eggs in one basket and left holding your **** is one of the things we destroyed Ollie over.

I've never understood getting a ton of assets if you're not willing to part with them to bring in superstars.

The first part is especially true when he didn’t allow himself to get ad by dealing for Kyrie.

But I think the Celtics title window timeline just didn’t match getting some of these other guys.

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's a major failure, not making moves for veterans for years all to keep assets to get AD and then he doesn't get AD. Putting all your eggs in one basket and left holding your **** is one of the things we destroyed Ollie over.

I've never understood getting a ton of assets if you're not willing to part with them to bring in superstars.

He did it previously to get Ray and Garnett. So he will pull that trigger.

I think a couple of things happened. Brown ended up a better shooter than he expected and Tatum a more dynamic scorer than he expected. The Hayward signing was a mistake, not just because of the injury, but because it ended up as the strongest position on the team.

But “star player” is a silly concept. Two years ago, Giannis wasn’t one. Kawhi wasn’t three years ago. Stars are made. I don’t think anybody can say Tatum, with Kyrie out of the picture, can’t be a “star player”. It’s really hard to predict these things.

Baynes is back. They will resign Al for less of a cap hit. Right now, Rozier may come back. That’s a team, that without Hayward, went to the conference final. They have three first round picks too. Ainge will make a move or two and they will be very competitive this season.

 

[djct1999]

He did it previously to get Ray and Garnett. So he will pull that trigger.

I think a couple of things happened. Brown ended up a better shooter than he expected and Tatum a more dynamic scorer than he expected. The Hayward signing was a mistake, not just because of the injury, but because it ended up as the strongest position on the team.

But “star player” is a silly concept. Two years ago, Giannis wasn’t one. Kawhi wasn’t three years ago. Stars are made. I don’t think anybody can say Tatum, with Kyrie out of the picture, can’t be a “star player”. It’s really hard to predict these things.

Baynes is back. They will resign Al for less of a cap hit. Right now, Rozier may come back. That’s a team, that without Hayward, went to the conference final. They have three first round picks too. Ainge will make a move or two and they will be very competitive this season.

But before all that, superjohn wants to know who is closer to a championship right now. Today. Pre-draft. Pre- free agency. You know, because it all means something.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

That's a major failure, not making moves for veterans for years all to keep assets to get AD and then he doesn't get AD. Putting all your eggs in one basket and left holding your **** is one of the things we destroyed Ollie over.

I've never understood getting a ton of assets if you're not willing to part with them to bring in superstars.

You act like every trade is so obvious at the time it was made. It is not like every NBA player fits on a continuum that is known by everyone. Fit matters too. I think Kyrie is a terrible fit for Boston's team, and they would be better off without him.

I think the Bucks have dropped in a very good set of complementary pieces for Giannis. Despite the fact that their star was a 13th pick of the draft that almost no other team was even looking at, and two other starters were second round picks, the Bucks are talented enough to win, they just have to show they have the stones to get it done in crunch time. You could make a similar argument about the Rockets, although their window may be closing.

The Nuggets are the best team in the West at this moment, but they also have to show they have to show they have the gumption to be more than a fun-to-watch playoff team. That team is home built with mid-first round and second round draft picks, although they did bring in one aging superstar in Millsap.

The salary cap makes it almost impossible to build a team by chasing established free agents, and this is the problem the Lakers now have. Charlotte tried to do that, and they are in a cap hell hole. If you look at the previous Lakers champions from the last 20 years, they came about because a) Kobe refused to play in Charlotte and Charlotte wanted a starting center in return for him, which the Lakers had in Divac; and b) Shaq wanted to make movies. Kobe's last two championship teams were actually perfect examples of how to build a championship team in a destination market. Pau Gasol was the second best player on those teams, and you could argue he was one of the top 20-30 players in the NBA at that time, but he couldn't have carried a team by himself. The rest of the team were just good pieces. The Lakers certainly didn't just chase superstars.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

He did it previously to get Ray and Garnett. So he will pull that trigger.

I think a couple of things happened. Brown ended up a better shooter than he expected and Tatum a more dynamic scorer than he expected. The Hayward signing was a mistake, not just because of the injury, but because it ended up as the strongest position on the team.

But “star player” is a silly concept. Two years ago, Giannis wasn’t one. Kawhi wasn’t three years ago. Stars are made. I don’t think anybody can say Tatum, with Kyrie out of the picture, can’t be a “star player”. It’s really hard to predict these things.

Baynes is back. They will resign Al for less of a cap hit. Right now, Rozier may come back. That’s a team, that without Hayward, went to the conference final. They have three first round picks too. Ainge will make a move or two and they will be very competitive this season.

I know I said it somewhere else in this thread, but give Hayward another offseason to recover. I think he will be a go-to scorer again, especially if Kyrie is not burning the shot clock every posession.

 

[lange10]

I agree, but they won't win it all w Seth Curry and Danny Green. They have 23 mil to spend on 7-8 players. This power play by Rich Paul and Lebron will implode.

Too early to predict things because NBA free agency hasn’t happened but considering they have two top 5-7 players in the league they’ll be one of the 4-5 teams in contention to win a championship. When you have Lebron and Anthony Davis, you can 100% win a ring with role players like Curry/Green rounding out a roster.

 

[djct1999]

Too early to predict things because NBA free agency hasn’t happened but considering they have two top 5-7 players in the league they’ll be one of the 4-5 teams in contention to win a championship. When you have Lebron and Anthony Davis, you can 100% win a ring with role players like Curry/Green rounding out a roster.

Lebron is turning 35. AD gets hurt every year. You need a solid rotation of 8-9 guys. The Lakers don't even have the cap space for that. That team would certainly be competitive but everything would have to line up perfectly for them to win it all. I am still not confident they can get out of the west.

 

[the Q]

He did it previously to get Ray and Garnett. So he will pull that trigger.

I think a couple of things happened. Brown ended up a better shooter than he expected and Tatum a more dynamic scorer than he expected. The Hayward signing was a mistake, not just because of the injury, but because it ended up as the strongest position on the team.

But “star player” is a silly concept. Two years ago, Giannis wasn’t one. Kawhi wasn’t three years ago. Stars are made. I don’t think anybody can say Tatum, with Kyrie out of the picture, can’t be a “star player”. It’s really hard to predict these things.

Baynes is back. They will resign Al for less of a cap hit. Right now, Rozier may come back. That’s a team, that without Hayward, went to the conference final. They have three first round picks too. Ainge will make a move or two and they will be very competitive this season.

Disagree on Hayward not making sense. He was and is their best player when healthy.

The question is legitimate regarding if he’ll ever be the same though. He’s in that pau gasol class that someone mentioned. He’s also perfect for stevens’ offense.

Looking at this draft, the value is gonna be on size in round 1.

And the kids are young enough that they can afford to move on from al as well. Because i don’t know if the window is still open losing Kyrie for nothing.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Disagree on Hayward not making sense. He was and is their best player when healthy.

The question is legitimate regarding if he’ll ever be the same though. He’s in that pau gasol class that someone mentioned. He’s also perfect for stevens’ offense.

Looking at this draft, the value is gonna be on size in round 1.

And the kids are young enough that they can afford to move on from al as well. Because i don’t know if the window is still open losing Kyrie for nothing.

They signed him before they drafted Tatum. I think, if they knew what Tatum would be, they'd have used that money elsewhere. It wasn't a bad signing at the time, that's not what I meant. Had Hayward not been injured, I think they'd have been more willing to trade Tatum too.

At the moment you can argue that their three best players are all SF. Or at least 3 of the top 4 to go with Al. Even in Steven's offense that's not ideal. They could use a center, and it would be nice if Williams can become that. They need a PG if Rozier isn't back and SG is a weak spot.

 

[the Q]

They signed him before they drafted Tatum. I think, if they knew what Tatum would be, they'd have used that money elsewhere. It wasn't a bad signing at the time, that's not what I meant. Had Hayward not been injured, I think they'd have been more willing to trade Tatum too.

At the moment you can argue that their three best players are all SF. Or at least 3 of the top 4 to go with Al. Even in Steven's offense that's not ideal. They could use a center, and it would be nice if Williams can become that. They need a PG if Rozier isn't back and SG is a weak spot.

Theoretically a healthy Hayward is better than both.

But again, not guaranteed he ever gets back to that level.

 

[the Q]

They signed him before they drafted Tatum. I think, if they knew what Tatum would be, they'd have used that money elsewhere. It wasn't a bad signing at the time, that's not what I meant. Had Hayward not been injured, I think they'd have been more willing to trade Tatum too.

At the moment you can argue that their three best players are all SF. Or at least 3 of the top 4 to go with Al. Even in Steven's offense that's not ideal. They could use a center, and it would be nice if Williams can become that. They need a PG if Rozier isn't back and SG is a weak spot.

They also drafted Tatum first. Then signed Hayward like a week or two later.

 

[the Q]

I found SJ:

 

[navery12]

I found SJ:

Or you found a take that any non-Celtics fan agrees with

 

[the Q]

Or you found a take that any non-Celtics fan agrees with

Oh it’s all totally fair.

I’m surprised he didn’t deal rozier in particular.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Or you found a take that any non-Celtics fan agrees with

I am not a Celtics fan.

I think that Kyrie is just a flat out loser. He doesn't make his team better, and he would rather put up big stats than win. He belongs someplace where he can score 28 points and get some assists passing out of triple teams on a team that wins 33 games.

The Cavaliers and Celtics both played better when Kyrie got hurt. That is not a coincidence.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Lebron is turning 35. AD gets hurt every year. You need a solid rotation of 8-9 guys. The Lakers don't even have the cap space for that. That team would certainly be competitive but everything would have to line up perfectly for them to win it all. I am still not confident they can get out of the west.

It's not only that, but if the Lakers only end up with 5-6 guys that can actually play, and AD or Lebron even miss a couple of weeks, the Lakers could go into tailspins. It doesn't take many 2-6 stretches over two week periods to turn a 3 seed into an 8 seed or non-playoff team.