KO's weakness as a coach is apparent

[upstater]

This is the truth, we're still playing with a front court full of sanction era recruits who wouldn't have gotten a look from UCONN 5 years ago.

That only applies to Brimah. Facey was a blue-chip recruit.

But even Brimah was better than his 250+ rating implied. There are a lot of big men projects like Brimah.

Let's not forget that Souleymane Wane, Gavin Edwards, Charles Okwandu all played for UConn, and also of course, Phil Nolan and Jonathan Mandeldove.

UConn will always take a chance on these kids because you need depth at the big man spot, and one and dones like Diamond Stone aren't really going to work over the long haul.

You just have to hope that you get more Hasheem Thabeets and Gavin Edwards's than Mandeldoves.

 

[upstater]

Gilbert was pretty damn good in those games actually so thanks again for continuous proof of your stupidity.

People want to sit our best players for some reason.

I guarantee you there are people who won't admit on this board that they wanted all of Facey's minutes taken away this year. Stuff like this was normal to say: "First off anything you get out of Facey is a bonus. He has been at most a minor role player for 3 years. Expecting any more is wishful thinking."

 

[Huskyforlife]

Are there people out there who still think Adams isn't a real PG? Sure he makes some dumb decisions, and is still developing at the position, but he's 7th in assists right now. Having Gilbert run the offense when Adams needs a breather is going to be a huge benefit to us next year, we'll be the (likely)only team with two distributors of that caliber.

 

[jibsey]

This is not a flame post, hear me out...

Our team right now has a 6-man rotation out of necessity due to injuries to major contributors and a lack of bodies. Coincidentally, over the past few games, we've put out the same lineup of guys and they've played the best basketball we've seen all year.

(2015-2016) Last year, it was obvious that the team got comfortable with it's roles and found an identity in the 2nd half of the season. Adams sliding into PG with Gibbs moving to the 2 solidified the rotations and line-up. It also took KO almost half the year to realize that playing through Miller in the post was our best offense. As a result, they had a nice second half and an AAC tourney championship run. But their early season struggles forced them into a tough seed and a tough early NCAA tourney draw in the 2nd rd.

(2014-2015) 2 years ago, the team didn't have much talent beyond a senior Boatright and inexperienced freshman Hamilton. T-Sam couldn't fill the secondary ball-handler role. KO changed the starting rotation constantly... switching between starting Brimah/Nolan at center, T-Sam/Purvis at SG, Purvis/Calhoun at SF, Facey/Hamilton at PF.... it was a mess. The team could never find a groove, never strung together more than 3 wins in a row. 1st round NIT exit.

(2013-2014) In KO's 2nd year as a head coach, he had nearly the exact same roster as the year before, Kromah the only addition, but only as a reserve. The starting line-up and roles were clearly defined. KO had the same rotations consistent throughout the year. The result was a 26-8 season, no bad losses (@HOU, maybe?). As we all know, the team won a national championship despite some obvious front-court deficiencies.

Let's call KO's first year a mulligan... the team played very well while playing under a ban, and suffered a lot of injuries.

What's the common thread of success throughout KO's tenure as head coach? CONSISTENT LINE-UPS AND ROTATIONS WITH CLEARLY DEFINED ROLES.

I think it's become apparent that KO has struggled to find the right line-ups and rotations to form a consistent and cohesive team. TEAM CHEMISTRY cannot be understated. Once KO's teams become familiar with and comfortable in their roles in his pro-style philosophies, they shine. However, we have seen that it takes KO a while to put together all of the pieces of the puzzle with his teams.

I love KO and I have no doubt that he's the man for the job despite terrible arguments by wingnuts on this board. However, it is obvious that he does have weaknesses as a coach. Finding his strongest line-up is one... working the officials is another. Is my theory an oversimplification, or does it have merit?

The "best basketball we've seen all year" is being played against cupcakes of our league. Didn't we just lose to SMU by 20? Development of Vance and Vital is accelerated with a ton of PT spurred by our injuries. The solid 6 man rotation is not going to work against a decent team when AB picks up 2 quick fouls. Larrier and Gilbert change our team dramatically and make KO a great coach. Pitino,Cal, K, Roy, none of these guys can coach without players. Slide them in to KO's spot and you think things are much different?

 

[Excalibur]

I would think that settling into a rotation by the end of January would be an indicator of success for just about any team . . .

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I will go against the grain on the rotations argument. Consistent rotations is a cause and effect issue. Most coaches would love to have consistent rotations, but they have to play the hand they are dealt. Most times a coach is not playing a consistent rotation it is because his roster doesn't let him play one. Maybe he has a bunch of players that are similar in ability or he has to play matchups. It is a lot more complicated than just picking a rotation and sticking with it.

 

[mauconnfan]

People want to sit our best players for some reason.

I guarantee you there are people who won't admit on this board that they wanted all of Facey's minutes taken away this year. Stuff like this was normal to say: "First off anything you get out of Facey is a bonus. He has been at most a minor role player for 3 years. Expecting any more is wishful thinking."

Hey I will eat crow on that one, he's much better than I expected and he didn't start out as to anything was going to all that different. Then BANG, we now have ourselves a player!

 

[Mr. Hand]

People want to sit our best players for some reason.

I guarantee you there are people who won't admit on this board that they wanted all of Facey's minutes taken away this year. Stuff like this was normal to say: "First off anything you get out of Facey is a bonus. He has been at most a minor role player for 3 years. Expecting any more is wishful thinking."

Facey is an interesting subject.

Ollie definitely limited his minutes and tried to confine his role to "energy guy" (Facey's own words) before this season. I don't know what Ollie was seeing during practice. Last season, Ollie rightfully played Miller as much as possible, but that limited Facey's development. Facey was NYC Player of the Year as a senior in high school, but he looked raw, and he was always going to need time to grow into a player.

This season, he finally got a chance. Without Larrier and Gilbert, and with Purvis and Brimah struggling, Facey finally made it to the top of the depth chart. And to his credit, he's stepped up like a senior should.

What could have been.

 

[Yankees32123]

Gilbert was pretty damn good in those games actually so thanks again for continuous proof of your stupidity.

Alterique played well because he is an elite caliber player who can create for himself. But his analysis is correct, there were no defined roles in the backcourt.

I think next year we should begin the season with this lineup:

PG (primary ball handler/distributer): Jalen Adams
SG (secondary ball handler/creator/scorer): Alterique Gilbert
SF: Vance Jackson
PF: Terry Larrier
C: Steve Enoch

MAL/CV the first ones off the bench

 

[upstater]

Hey I will eat crow on that one, he's much better than I expected and he didn't start out as to anything was going to all that different. Then BANG, we now have ourselves a player!

Oh, it wasn't you. I just went through those threads and saw a lot of familiar names. For all the people who think they know what Ollie is doing wrong, many (not all) could use some humble pie by going back to what they were writing in earlier times.

 

[pnow15]

The problem is that GM Ollie is not giving coach Ollie a team he can win with.
Ollie took on three project big men in two years. Facey, Brimah, Enoch. Brimah is a quarter of a player, Facey has finally gotten to average and Enoch is lost.
On top of this GM Ollie recruited 2 freshmen with four bad knees. So, Ollie went into the season without one reliable big. Tough to win.
He also never bothered to completely fill in his roster. That open scholarship could have been filled with a third point guard or a shooter or a big man. Instead there is an empty seat on the bench.
GM Ollie also seems to prefer pro potential over college reliability.
Just look at the teams from Wagner to Maine that have players we could use.
He has passed on several who could have helped that I know about so how many other guys has he passed on.
He needs someone to help him construct his roster in a more efficient manner.
Right now Ollie has a huge hole in the center position for next season and he needs to find someone to fill it. He can not depend on bad knees and Enoch.

 

[Candyman]

Last years team limped into the AAC Tourney and needed to win against Cincy just to make the Tourney after being an almost lock a few weeks before. Its not like we got so much better as the year went on. Every time starts to get more comfortable as the season goes on.

 

[mauconnfan]

Alterique played well because he is an elite caliber player who can create for himself. But his analysis is correct, there were no defined roles in the backcourt.

I think next year we should begin the season with this lineup:

PG (primary ball handler/distributer): Jalen Adams
SG (secondary ball handler/creator/scorer): Alterique Gilbert
SF: Vance Jackson
PF: Terry Larrier
C: Steve Enoch

MAL/CV the first ones off the bench

While everyone would love to have "defined" roles do you actually think that Sheffer/Ollie, Ricky/KEA had defined roles every time they came down the court? I mean it's all about the chemistry of the 2 players and working out the wrinkles between each other. Anyone who thought there wouldn't be issues early in the year while healthy and even thereafter is crazy, it was going to happen. No one wanted losses to Wagner or NE but they were the benefactors of no chemistry, not from undefined roles. And as we see now with the way Kentan has proven he was ready to be what he is, the fact Larrier was so clearly the "man" on the wing also played a part in the busting out of Facey afterwards, who knows if it would have even happened like this?

I agree JA should be the primary 1 but this will change depending on where the ball goes on an outlet etc etc.. They will be able to coexist I am sure, and even by now they would have if healthy. JA has proven he has improved and gets it too so he should be given the keys and Alterique should get the extra set, which means he will occasionally drive.

 

[CL82]

Ollie's pro sets require good to great athletes, especially 1-3 with good to great BBIQ. If the athlete is less physically gifted then he needs to be smarter. Outstanding athletes can take who can people off the dribble or have an accurate jumper with a quick release can make mistakes and have their athleticism bail them out. It is very hard for underclassman to thrive in that system as older, more experienced players can match their athleticism and/or out think them.

KO's system works well with older, polished guys on the ball. That may also explain the perceived "big man development" issue. Without a skilled guard to draw defenders and dish, we don't really run all that much for them.

 

[Matrim55]

I will go against the grain on the rotations argument. Consistent rotations is a cause and effect issue. Most coaches would love to have consistent rotations, but they have to play the hand they are dealt. Most times a coach is not playing a consistent rotation it is because his roster doesn't let him play one. Maybe he has a bunch of players that are similar in ability or he has to play matchups. It is a lot more complicated than just picking a rotation and sticking with it.

This is true, and why the best coaches in college think like GMs. Roy Williams is spectacular at this on the men's side, while Geno is the very best at it all-time.

Based upon the last 2 classes, I'm convinced KO has improved.

 

[upstater]

Last years team limped into the AAC Tourney and needed to win against Cincy just to make the Tourney after being an almost lock a few weeks before. Its not like we got so much better as the year went on. Every time starts to get more comfortable as the season goes on.

Wrong

Tulsa got in with an RPI in the 60s after losing the first game.

UConn was a lock by the Cincy game.

And they improved a lot over the year.

 

[7774]

Facey is an interesting subject.

Ollie definitely limited his minutes and tried to confine his role to "energy guy" (Facey's own words) before this season. I don't know what Ollie was seeing during practice. Last season, Ollie rightfully played Miller as much as possible, but that limited Facey's development. Facey was NYC Player of the Year as a senior in high school, but he looked raw, and he was always going to need time to grow into a player.

This season, he finally got a chance. Without Larrier and Gilbert, and with Purvis and Brimah struggling, Facey finally made it to the top of the depth chart. And to his credit, he's stepped up like a senior should.

What could have been.

I really don't know where this narrative is coming from. Facey's playing time has always tracked very closely to his fouling. He averaged almost 7 fouls per 40 minutes last year, so I don't know how people think he's going to be playing a lot. If he played the large majority of any half last year, on average he would have finished that half with 3-4 fouls.

This year he averages 3 fouls per 40 minutes, so he plays a lot, just like he played over 20 minutes a game his sophomore year when he averaged 4 fouls per 40 minutes.

 

[Candyman]

Wrong

Tulsa got in with an RPI in the 60s after losing the first game.

UConn was a lock by the Cincy game.

And they improved a lot over the year.

UConn was def not a lock by the Cincy game regardless what Tulsa RPI was. Going into the game the consensus was UConn needed to win that game after losing 2 of their last 3 games and going 4-4 in the last 8 games. Maybe the would have gotten in but they were not a lock if they lost to Cincy.

 

[upstater]

UConn was def not a lock by the Cincy game regardless what Tulsa RPI was. Going into the game the consensus was UConn needed to win that game after losing 2 of their last 3 games and going 4-4 in the last 8 games. Maybe the would have gotten in but they were not a lock if they lost to Cincy.

How would Tulsa with a first round loss have gotten in, but UConn have been left out with a Cincy loss?

The consensus on this site was that they were a lead-pipe cinch to be in.

Before the final regular season game (which UConn won), Joe Lunardi had UConn as one among 17 teams vying for 11 spots left. UConn was in the first group of likelies, 4 teams, that had a much better than 50% chance of already being in. And this was BEFORE they won their final regular season game, and two games prior to the Cincy game.

 

[4in16]

The truth of the matter is that AAC teams travel badly. UConn destroyed UCF, but UCF has played good games. Houston was obliterated by other teams, but then looked good. This league is full of Jekyll and Hydes.

By the way, I saw Georgetown thoroughly dominated a ranked Creighton team this week. It just seems that UConn can get up for certain games, but in the conference, it is a "slog" as someone recently wrote.

I agree with you, my post was responding to another asking why someone didn't include Temple specifically. I know we could just as easily win v Houston and Memphis at home as easily as we could lose to UCF on the road, that wasn't my point.

 

[Mr. French]

I will go against the grain on the rotations argument. Consistent rotations is a cause and effect issue. Most coaches would love to have consistent rotations, but they have to play the hand they are dealt. Most times a coach is not playing a consistent rotation it is because his roster doesn't let him play one. Maybe he has a bunch of players that are similar in ability or he has to play matchups. It is a lot more complicated than just picking a rotation and sticking with it.

Coaching basketball, and most sports for that matter, is always more complicated than the "average fan" believes.

You hear these theories all the time and you'd think it was the most simplistic thing ever.

Especially in major college ball where there's the added responsibility of recruiting, you essentially have to be ambassador for the athletic program, GM, head coach, etc.

It's not nearly the simple job everyone makes it out to be.

 

[TRUCONN76]

Anyone who could not recognize that Gilbert is a true point guard doesn't know basketball. Adams is improving at handling the point and it will go a long way for UCONN if he returns, but there is no question that Gilbert will be handling the point on most occasions when they are both in together and most definitely in crunch time. That being said the point guard is the hardest position to play well coming out of high school followed by the center position. It is unrealistic to have expected Gilbert to play his first two games as well as would have been playing by now. That is why you start him against the cupcakes as you would expect the experienced players to have enough to handle those teams easily while Gilbert would gain valuable experience. Adams and Purvis played poorly in both two opening games.

 

[ctchamps]

Coaching basketball, and most sports for that matter, is always more complicated than the "average fan" believes.

You hear these theories all the time and you'd think it was the most simplistic thing ever.

Especially in major college ball where there's the added responsibility of recruiting, you essentially have to be ambassador for the athletic program, GM, head coach, etc.

It's not nearly the simple job everyone makes it out to be.

It really is simple if you sit behind a computer screen and there is no way to prove if your opinions are helpful or detrimental. I think most of us get that we're second guessing things. That our opinions are just opinions and nothing else. Some people unfortunately really struggle separating opinions and fact.

The OP took some time and went into a lot of detail in his post. But he is among a group that is lobbying others to replace KO or at the very least consider it. This group consistently ignores or underweights circumstances that reduce or refute their arguments.

We can all find a corollary to circumstances. I'm thinking that the level of play has degenerated with the stupidity that has increased in this forum. It must be that stupid posters send stupid vibrations to coaches and players infecting their abilities. I'm sure there are one or two people in this thread who think my corollary has some merit even as they recognize the postulation is meant as a parody.

 

[ctchamps]

Anyone who could not recognize that Gilbert is a true point guard doesn't know basketball. Adams is improving at handling the point and it will go a long way for UCONN if he returns, but there is no question that Gilbert will be handling the point on most occasions when they are both in together and most definitely in crunch time. That being said the point guard is the hardest position to play well coming out of high school followed by the center position. It is unrealistic to have expected Gilbert to play his first two games as well as would have been playing by now. That is why you start him against the cupcakes as you would expect the experienced players to have enough to handle those teams easily while Gilbert would gain valuable experience. Adams and Purvis played poorly in both two opening games.

I wouldn't go as far as saying they don't know bb but I agree with everything else you say.

I would give Alterique the nod to be the primary guard with Jalen the off guard. It took 1 and 1/2 years for Jalen to develop. He's done an incredible job but there is no way of knowing if it is better in the long run to have him play the off position with Alterique.

This forum will hit KO for trying but Alterique, if he regains his pre injury form, just might allow Jalen to thrive even more than he's accomplished this season. The early season is the time to find out.

 

[Mr. French]

The fact is, most of our offense works exactly the same way with 2 "PGs" as it does with 1...

There isn't much delineation between those positions in this offense other than dribbling the ball up the court and initiating the offense .. But the REAL initiation of the offense can be done by any of the G/Wings, it doesn't matter if there are 2 PGs...people seem to differentiate between who's the PG, Adams or Gilbert...

Both Guard positions are generally tasked with doing the same things in this offense, so it doesn't really matter as much as it seems the debate lends.

 

[auror]

This is not a flame post, hear me out...

Our team right now has a 6-man rotation out of necessity due to injuries to major contributors and a lack of bodies. Coincidentally, over the past few games, we've put out the same lineup of guys and they've played the best basketball we've seen all year.

(2015-2016) Last year, it was obvious that the team got comfortable with it's roles and found an identity in the 2nd half of the season. Adams sliding into PG with Gibbs moving to the 2 solidified the rotations and line-up. It also took KO almost half the year to realize that playing through Miller in the post was our best offense. As a result, they had a nice second half and an AAC tourney championship run. But their early season struggles forced them into a tough seed and a tough early NCAA tourney draw in the 2nd rd.

(2014-2015) 2 years ago, the team didn't have much talent beyond a senior Boatright and inexperienced freshman Hamilton. T-Sam couldn't fill the secondary ball-handler role. KO changed the starting rotation constantly... switching between starting Brimah/Nolan at center, T-Sam/Purvis at SG, Purvis/Calhoun at SF, Facey/Hamilton at PF.... it was a mess. The team could never find a groove, never strung together more than 3 wins in a row. 1st round NIT exit.

(2013-2014) In KO's 2nd year as a head coach, he had nearly the exact same roster as the year before, Kromah the only addition, but only as a reserve. The starting line-up and roles were clearly defined. KO had the same rotations consistent throughout the year. The result was a 26-8 season, no bad losses (@HOU, maybe?). As we all know, the team won a national championship despite some obvious front-court deficiencies.

Let's call KO's first year a mulligan... the team played very well while playing under a ban, and suffered a lot of injuries.

What's the common thread of success throughout KO's tenure as head coach? CONSISTENT LINE-UPS AND ROTATIONS WITH CLEARLY DEFINED ROLES.

I think it's become apparent that KO has struggled to find the right line-ups and rotations to form a consistent and cohesive team. TEAM CHEMISTRY cannot be understated. Once KO's teams become familiar with and comfortable in their roles in his pro-style philosophies, they shine. However, we have seen that it takes KO a while to put together all of the pieces of the puzzle with his teams.

I love KO and I have no doubt that he's the man for the job despite terrible arguments by wingnuts on this board. However, it is obvious that he does have weaknesses as a coach. Finding his strongest line-up is one... working the officials is another. Is my theory an oversimplification, or does it have merit?

I think you're confusing correlation and causation. He didn't have to jigger the lineups because we were winning.

 

[upstater]

I wouldn't go as far as saying they don't know bb but I agree with everything else you say.

I would give Alterique the nod to be the primary guard with Jalen the off guard. It took 1 and 1/2 years for Jalen to develop. He's done an incredible job but there is no way of knowing if it is better in the long run to have him play the off position with Alterique.

This forum will hit KO for trying but Alterique, if he regains his pre injury form, just might allow Jalen to thrive even more than he's accomplished this season. The early season is the time to find out.

I think it is going to be tough to take the ball out of Jalen's hands. He does his driving when he has the ball. Unless they can figure out ways to get him mismatches, this sounds like a good idea, but in general I expect Jalen to have the ball mostly. I know Ollie seems him as a scoring guard, but... I think he scores MORE when he is running the offense.

 

[superjohn]

How would Tulsa with a first round loss have gotten in, but UConn have been left out with a Cincy loss?

The consensus on this site was that they were a lead-pipe cinch to be in.

Before the final regular season game (which UConn won), Joe Lunardi had UConn as one among 17 teams vying for 11 spots left. UConn was in the first group of likelies, 4 teams, that had a much better than 50% chance of already being in. And this was BEFORE they won their final regular season game, and two games prior to the Cincy game.

Because the committee doesn't always make a whole lot of sense. I remember the consensus being we better win because you don't want to put your faith in the NCAA committee's hands. We won that and won the next two to win the AAC tourny and still only got a #9 seed. I think we should have no doubt been in before the Cincy game and think we probably would have gotten in but with that committee you never know.

 

[UChusky916]

I feel that people here are looking for something negative to say about Ollie. He keeps proving them wrong and they keep coming up with some new criticism.

I started off this thread by saying it wasn't a flame post. I wasn't looking for something negative to say, I'm making an observation based on my perceptions of KO's teams and lineups.

Regardless of opponent, there's no arguing that the team has looked better over the past 5 games than they have all year. The players' roles are defined and they look comfortable. I thought back over past years and it seems to be a consistent trend under KO's tenure that this is the case.

I don't think it's an oversimplification to say that KO's teams have generally succeeded when he's had a consistent line-up and rotations with clearly defined roles.

 

[Matrim55]

there is no question that Gilbert will be handling the point on most occasions when they are both in together and most definitely in crunch time.

lol