KO's weakness as a coach is apparent

[HuskyHawk]

I think it is going to be tough to take the ball out of Jalen's hands. He does his driving when he has the ball. Unless they can figure out ways to get him mismatches, this sounds like a good idea, but in general I expect Jalen to have the ball mostly. I know Ollie seems him as a scoring guard, but... I think he scores MORE when he is running the offense.

Yes! This was Ollie's mistake in the first two games. Adams was a 100% PG his last year of HS. He isn't good off the ball, doesn't know how to move and get open, and essentially becomes a fairly useless player or at least much less useful. While Gilbert played well to start the year because he was in his natural role, Adams was awful. Our best returning player gave us nothing. Purvis, likewise was thrust out of position and also played like it.

If I have a fault for Ollie it is in trying to make the team he has something it's not. In theory, AG at PG and Adams as a SG is a better lineup, but in reality it isn't. Adams is one of the top assist guys in the game, can penetrate and score around the basket. He's a mediocre shooter, and not a catch and shoot guy. Gilbert, I think, can play off the ball more effectively, as Napier did playing with Walker.

 

[pj]

I don't think it's an oversimplification to say that KO's teams have generally succeeded when he's had a consistent line-up and rotations with clearly defined roles.

This would be true of all coaches at all times. If you're searching for a lineup, your team has not yet gelled and is not going to be as successful as a team that has.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I started off this thread by saying it wasn't a flame post. I wasn't looking for something negative to say, I'm making an observation based on my perceptions of KO's teams and lineups.

Regardless of opponent, there's no arguing that the team has looked better over the past 5 games than they have all year. The players' roles are defined and they look comfortable. I thought back over past years and it seems to be a consistent trend under KO's tenure that this is the case.

I don't think it's an oversimplification to say that KO's teams have generally succeeded when he's had a consistent line-up and rotations with clearly defined roles.

It's not just clearly defined roles, it's putting guys in the right roles. Adams should have been PG all year. Purvis SG. Larrier SF, Facey PF and Brimah C. Gilbert should be backup at both PG and SG, but never PG when Adams is in. That was a mistake. Facey also finally got enough minutes to show what he can do. He was always a plus rebounder, and showed some touch, but only played in spurts.

This team took off really, when Vance was inserted at the SF spot. Not only did it provide needed shooting, but it allowed Purvis to play his position, and not be confused between himself and Vital as to who is doing what.

 

[upstater]

Yes! This was Ollie's mistake in the first two games. Adams was a 100% PG his last year of HS. He isn't good off the ball, doesn't know how to move and get open, and essentially becomes a fairly useless player or at least much less useful. While Gilbert played well to start the year because he was in his natural role, Adams was awful. Our best returning player gave us nothing. Purvis, likewise was thrust out of position and also played like it.

If I have a fault for Ollie it is in trying to make the team he has something it's not. In theory, AG at PG and Adams as a SG is a better lineup, but in reality it isn't. Adams is one of the top assist guys in the game, can penetrate and score around the basket. He's a mediocre shooter, and not a catch and shoot guy. Gilbert, I think, can play off the ball more effectively, as Napier did playing with Walker.

Adams can learn to play off the ball, but just not full time. I agree with you about him needing to run it more.

Adams played with Sterling Gibbs and had some success off the ball.

I think they can switch it around, play to play even, the way Napier and Kemba did.

 

[Milesbran30]

Anyone who could not recognize that Gilbert is a true point guard doesn't know basketball. Adams is improving at handling the point and it will go a long way for UCONN if he returns, but there is no question that Gilbert will be handling the point on most occasions when they are both in together and most definitely in crunch time. That being said the point guard is the hardest position to play well coming out of high school followed by the center position. It is unrealistic to have expected Gilbert to play his first two games as well as would have been playing by now. That is why you start him against the cupcakes as you would expect the experienced players to have enough to handle those teams easily while Gilbert would gain valuable experience. Adams and Purvis played poorly in both two opening games.

Jalen will have 3yrs experience. .u think Ollie takes the ball out his hand or Gilbert will be that good?

 

[usedtoberats]

Your right in your analysis on Ollie. This is what many have attacked him for regarding his constant substitutions in games and playing players out of position. When guys have defined roles they play better. Giving the point guard keys to Alterique was a huge mistake as we saw and was mostly responsible for our horrible losses to Wagner and Northeastern. If Jalen is back for next year, he better make it clear to Gilbert that he will play off the ball and the team should know clearly Adams is the point guard. Vance Jackson should also be starting next year as well on the perimeter as our small forward. Larrier should play the Daniels role and be a stretch 4 as it suits his game better.

first, Gilbert ain't playin off the ball, he is PG first and foremost. JAdams is PG/2G Combo and will be used him as such. You're right Gilbert may not have been in the right role first game of college career, but he woulc've slid over to PG after a few games.

As far as the role finding ability, this is a very fine line needing a LARGE body of work to assess a coach by. We dont have a large body of work to judge. But one thing we need to have (That is is measurable in a short sample size ) is quality assistant coaches that work with these young men and get improvement throughout the year. Not sure if it's been the exasperating injury situation or other factors, but 2 what were considered stalwarts in the lineup are regressing ( or have regressed) and THAT is one of the most disappointing things of this year. Injuries , cant control, but effort and improvement is a personal choice. Effort is there , but mental effort has left these players. IMO they have checked out, that has not happened in the past at UConn.

 

[upstater]

Because the committee doesn't always make a whole lot of sense. I remember the consensus being we better win because you don't want to put your faith in the NCAA committee's hands. We won that and won the next two to win the AAC tourny and still only got a #9 seed. I think we should have no doubt been in before the Cincy game and think we probably would have gotten in but with that committee you never know.

You can say that about every single at large team that isn't a top 5 seed. If the committee is going to do monumental craziness, then of course no one is safe, but here we are talking about reasonable measures. Like how a Tulsa team, with an RPI of 65, and a worse record than UConn, gets in over a UConn team with an RPI of 41 (which is UConn's RPI prior to the Cincy game), better record, and better OOC and SOS.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Jalen needs to be the primary ballhandler and decision maker next year. It will be his 3rd year and he has been putting up monster numbers to this point. Alterique, like many have said, should have a Shabazz role when Shabazz played with Kemba. With the way the team is running offense right now, I would love to see what they'd look like with Alterique and Larrier in there. They key will be how much this team lets Jalen lead next year and plays off him.

 

[King Husky]

Agree on both points.

We've struggled to maintain dominance because we've had way too much turnover in personnel from year to year. UConn teams of the level demanded by the fanbase were always built over multiple seasons. Unless you're Kentucky (and to a lesser extent Duke) and can build a team completely on signing day, that's how it works.

And we've had so much turnover largely because of recruiting sanctions. Ollie used band aids, quick fixes, and longshots to make it through to this point, where he can finally recruit a team from scratch. And there's a vocal minority of malcontents who can't wait to pull the plug on him, just as he's building something again? These people lack perspective (or they have an agenda...).

For what it's worth, no one in this thread has said anything about pulling the plug on him.

 

[Mr. French]

Jalen needs to be the primary ballhandler and decision maker next year. It will be his 3rd year and he has been putting up monster numbers to this point. Alterique, like many have said, should have a Shabazz role when Shabazz played with Kemba. With the way the team is running offense right now, I would love to see what they'd look like with Alterique and Larrier in there. They key will be how much this team lets Jalen lead next year and plays off him.

That's partially what I was saying earlier: In that scenario, Shabazz actually was the PG and Kemba was off the ball, but in our offense he's still able to be "primary handlers" etc.

So again, the PG/not PG issue is inherently nonsense.

 

[pj]

As KO says, he wants to play positionless basketball. Players should be versatile. Jalen can continue to grow as a player by developing his scoring skills and helping Alterique master the PG position. We shouldn't pigeonhole these guys into positions. Remember KO's ultimate goal is to help each player succeed in the NBA. Sometimes that means you work on your weaknesses and turn them into strengths.

 

[superjohn]

You can say that about every single at large team that isn't a top 5 seed. If the committee is going to do monumental craziness, then of course no one is safe, but here we are talking about reasonable measures. Like how a Tulsa team, with an RPI of 65, and a worse record than UConn, gets in over a UConn team with an RPI of 41 (which is UConn's RPI prior to the Cincy game), better record, and better OOC and SOS.

Tulsa had a better league record than us by 1 game and had we lost to Cincy we would have had the same number of losses. We had a better resume but I disagree we were a stone cold lock. Tulsa was their strangest pick last year amongst several, the committee always has a few left out that shouldn't be and few put in who shouldn't be in.

 

[huskymagic]

Anyone who could not recognize that Gilbert is a true point guard doesn't know basketball. Adams is improving at handling the point and it will go a long way for UCONN if he returns, but there is no question that Gilbert will be handling the point on most occasions when they are both in together and most definitely in crunch time. That being said the point guard is the hardest position to play well coming out of high school followed by the center position. It is unrealistic to have expected Gilbert to play his first two games as well as would have been playing by now. That is why you start him against the cupcakes as you would expect the experienced players to have enough to handle those teams easily while Gilbert would gain valuable experience. Adams and Purvis played poorly in both two opening games.

"You're not really that stupid are you?" I am sure that Kemba was seen as more of a combo guard by you and others at the time instead of a "true" point guard. Alterique is more in the Boatright mold than a "true" point guard. Gilbert is a MC'D All Americans and top 35 player, you think beating Wagner and Northeastern is too much to ask with our talent? What u and Mau and a few others are suggesting is take the ball out of the hands of a star guard with NBA potential who is top 10 in the nation in assists and play him off the ball in favor of a 5'9 redshirt freshman guard with a bad shoulder . Brilliant! No one is saying Gilbert is a bad player, but he is not as good as Adams and he needs to play off the ball in the Boatright mold for this team to be good.

 

[HooperScooper]

first, Gilbert ain't playin off the ball, he is PG first and foremost. JAdams is PG/2G Combo and will be used him as such. You're right Gilbert may not have been in the right role first game of college career, but he woulc've slid over to PG after a few games.

Adams has been here 1 1/2 seasons. Tell me when you've seen him flourish as a 2G off the ball?

Last season the offense ran much better when Adams was the primary PG and Gibbs was off the ball. Adams didn't look good when Gibbs was the primary ball handler. And neither did the offense.

This season the team has looked much better when Adams is running the show. And that's when Adams has flourished the most.

I think there's a place for Gilbert to also be a ballhandler in the backcourt. The dual headed PG backcourt that UConn has been so successful with in the past. But Adams is your lead guy.

 

[Deleted at users request]

That's partially what I was saying earlier: In that scenario, Shabazz actually was the PG and Kemba was off the ball, but in our offense he's still able to be "primary handlers" etc.

So again, the PG/not PG issue is inherently nonsense.

I agree. I don't think it's an issue of who is the PG or not, but more of an issue of who the offense is ran through. In that scenario the offense still ran through Kemba even though Shabazz was the "PG" who set up plays. Shabazz made it easier for Kemba to get good looks to attack and set up his teammates. That's what I'd like to see next year. Alterique being an extra handler to get Jalen better looks to attack. Take some pressure off of him.

 

[housekeys]

Jalen has not been a perfect PG, but under the circumstances he has been excellent. However, it is not obvious that he should be our PG next year. Aside from the arguments that both AG and JA can play both, you have to consider a couple of things. Can AG be productive as a 2 guard than as a point? Is JA less productive as a 2?Getting production from one, while not the other is a problem. While many have sung the praises of JA because of his point production (a major plus in a PG - and essential in making deep runs into the NCAA - see KW, Bazz ), the true value is in getting other players involved in the offense and handling/protecting the ball (i.e. assist to TO's). We need production from many spots on the court, and having a super star in JA, whether he is 1 or 2, is not going to be enough. Both of our guards are studs, IMO, so we are in good shape either way. JA has also proven to be clutch. My final thought is that match-ups may be the deciding factor on who starts at the point, and results will be the factor in deciding who finishes.

 

[Candyman]

I see Gilbert taking a Boatright approach and playing most off ball but driving and creating or scoring at every opportunity. Only problem I have is that if Adams drives and finds an open Gilbert can he knock down an open three?

 

[pnow15]

Jalen has a legit shot as an NBA player if Ollie continues to play him at point.
Ollie has to give the ball to Jalen and let him have the team next year.

 

[upstater]

Tulsa had a better league record than us by 1 game and had we lost to Cincy we would have had the same number of losses. We had a better resume but I disagree we were a stone cold lock. Tulsa was their strangest pick last year amongst several, the committee always has a few left out that shouldn't be and few put in who shouldn't be in.

The board here had people looking at all the measures, not only RPI (41) but BPI. Most here looked and said we were a lock. I agreed.

UConn was 23-10 before the Cincy game. Tulsa was 20-12. With a weaker OOC than UConn played. As for league records, I distrust them in unbalanced leagues. Tulsa plays Tulane and East Carolina twice. Just one game separated them, 12-6, 11-7. I feel the same way about the league regular season. Unless you beat the 2nd place team by more than 1 game, the 2nd place team is the real champ if they win the tourney.

Regardless, UConn was far and away ahead of many teams that made it in.
Also, if you recall, the last 4 teams were Tulsa, Michigan, Wichita St, Vandy. The RPI of these last 4 was 62, 57, 48, 63. UConn was at 41 prior to Cincy. And they were way ahead in BPI.

So Tulsa wasn't even the team with the worst RPI. Vandy was at 19-13.

 

[superjohn]

The board here had people looking at all the measures, not only RPI (41) but BPI. Most here looked and said we were a lock. I agreed.

UConn was 23-10 before the Cincy game. Tulsa was 20-12. With a weaker OOC than UConn played. As for league records, I distrust them in unbalanced leagues. Tulsa plays Tulane and East Carolina twice. Just one game separated them, 12-6, 11-7. I feel the same way about the league regular season. Unless you beat the 2nd place team by more than 1 game, the 2nd place team is the real champ if they win the tourney.

Regardless, UConn was far and away ahead of many teams that made it in.
Also, if you recall, the last 4 teams were Tulsa, Michigan, Wichita St, Vandy. The RPI of these last 4 was 62, 57, 48, 63. UConn was at 41 prior to Cincy. And they were way ahead in BPI.

So Tulsa wasn't even the team with the worst RPI. Vandy was at 19-13.

I agree with everything you're saying, it's my lack of trust in the NCAA that makes me a bit hesitant if we are anywhere near the bubble.

 

[Candyman]

The board here had people looking at all the measures, not only RPI (41) but BPI. Most here looked and said we were a lock. I agreed.

UConn was 23-10 before the Cincy game. Tulsa was 20-12. With a weaker OOC than UConn played. As for league records, I distrust them in unbalanced leagues. Tulsa plays Tulane and East Carolina twice. Just one game separated them, 12-6, 11-7. I feel the same way about the league regular season. Unless you beat the 2nd place team by more than 1 game, the 2nd place team is the real champ if they win the tourney.

Regardless, UConn was far and away ahead of many teams that made it in.
Also, if you recall, the last 4 teams were Tulsa, Michigan, Wichita St, Vandy. The RPI of these last 4 was 62, 57, 48, 63. UConn was at 41 prior to Cincy. And they were way ahead in BPI.

So Tulsa wasn't even the team with the worst RPI. Vandy was at 19-13.

Your looking at it after the fact and going by who you know they eventually let in. Going into that game, not knowing what we now know, UConn was not a stone cold lock, they were a bubble team. I know the feeling on this board for the most part was we have to win that game. Especially the doom and gloom of this board.

Even now when college basketball analysts talk about UConn last year they all say Jalen Adams saved UConn's season, that they would have missed the tourney. I read this from quite a few people, Dauster @NBCSports, Norlander @CBS Sports and Eisenberg @Yahoo.

 

[champs99and04]

I absolutely think the OP's theory has merit. Rotations have always been something I've quibbled with in regards to KO, at least over the last couple seasons. If one were to be critical of the 2013-14 team, they could posit that it took him too long to unleash the lineups with Giffey at center, when it had worked so well the year prior (due to necessity). For me, though, it started in 2014-15. I disagree slightly with the OP - I thought we were playing decent basketball by March when injuries had forced his hand. Couple that season with 2013 (when we had no scholarships) and this recent stretch (when we've had seven players) and it's fair to both compliment KO for doing his best work under duress while also wondering if it also might work in his favor.

Last season, he would take players out of the game and seem to forget that they were there. He had a maddening tendency of putting all of his fringe rotation players on the court at one time - the Cassell's, the Nolan's, even Enoch/Facey/Gibbs at times - and opening up an insurmountable rift as his best players look on. His insistence on strictly optimizing a players' minutes based on foul trouble (hey, our point guard picked up two fouls, we should take him out even though it will torpedo our chances of winning!) is also consistent with the overarching problem: occasionally, playing too many guys.

In fairness to him, this has worked in the past - I never would have condoned entrusting Terrence Samuel in 2014, yet the minutes he got throughout the season allowed him to develop to the point where he was a key cog in our run. This season, I was willing to cut back minutes on guys like Facey and Jackson - that ultimately proved untenable because of the injuries, but the point remains that if you cut your rotation too early, you risk compromising development.

But one of the reasons I think this board has been a bit melodramatic about our lack of depth is because they have become accustomed to disjointed rotations geared towards player development rather than team cohesiveness. Personally, I want the best guys out there with each other as much as possible. There are plenty of HOF coaches out there who agree with me. Many don't. The value of a depleted roster is that suddenly, opportunity exists for players to log extended minutes and better themselves - both within the team structure and from an individual standpoint - in a way they may not have been able to with a Terry Larrier occupying 25 front court minutes.

 

[upstater]

Your looking at it after the fact and going by who you know they eventually let in. Going into that game, not knowing what we now know, UConn was not a stone cold lock, they were a bubble team. I know the feeling on this board for the most part was we have to win that game. Especially the doom and gloom of this board.

Even now when college basketball analysts talk about UConn last year they all say Jalen Adams saved UConn's season, that they would have missed the tourney. I read this from quite a few people, Dauster @NBCSports, Norlander @CBS Sports and Eisenberg @Yahoo.

I'm doing anything but looking at it after the fact. I am telling you that on this board we were watching this day by day if not hour by hour, and in that last week, the board was 98% certain before the Cincy game. So to say I am only looking at this in retrospect simply isn't true.

As I wrote earlier, Joe Lunardi's bubble had 17 teams for 11 spots. UConn was one of the top 4 of the 17. And Lunardi wrote that article before the final game of the regular season (which UConn won). After that, UConn was firmly in according to Lunardi. This is long before the AAC championship.

 

[huskymagic]

SO getting back on track to the discussion at hand as no one is worrying about whether us or Tulsa were in the tournament before the AAC tournament. As it turned out from the NCAA committee, we were already in, but Joe Lunardi and other media bums were pushing the narrative that we were in the Last 4 out and needed to beat Cinci.

PS: JALEN IS OUR POINT GUARD IF HE RETURNS NOT ALTERIQUE AND THAT SHOULD NEVER BE MEDDLED WITH AGAIN! SOME OF YOU ARE ARGUING ABOUT TAKING FRESHMAN SHABAZZ(GILBERT) AND HAVING HIM RUN THE TEAM INSTEAD OF KEMBA(JALEN). LET'S BE SERIOUS FOLKS. GILBERT'S ROLE SHOULD BE WHAT BAZZ DID HIS FRESHMAN YEAR AND OR WHAT BOAT DID HIS JUNIOR YEAR.

 

[upstater]

SO getting back on track to the discussion at hand as no one is worrying about whether us or Tulsa were in the tournament before the AAC tournament. As it turned out from the NCAA committee, we were already in, but Joe Lunardi and other media bums were pushing the narrative that we were in the Last 4 out and needed to beat Cinci.

Joe Lunardi, before the last regular season game, which was a win over UCF:

Probable (5). These teams have a 65 percent T.O.P or better and should make the tournament, provided they suffer "no bad losses" down the stretch: Syracuse, Providence, Vanderbilt, Cincinnati, Connecticut.

Coin flip (8). These teams are in the 50/50 T.O.P range and need at least one more "good win" to make the field: Michigan, Butler, Florida, Oregon State, Gonzaga, Tulsa, St. Bonaventure, Alabama.

Possible (4). These teams have a 35 percent T.O.P. or lower and need a really big finish and/or deep conference-tournament run: George Washington, Ohio State, Washington, LSU.

Long shots (7). These teams aren't completely off the board, but they better not lose before their respective conference-championship games. In a typical year, no one from this category actually makes the tournament: BYU, Stanford, Creighton, Clemson, Florida State, Marquette, Georgia Tech.

 

[Matrim55]

Joe Lunardi, before the last regular season game, which was a win over UCF:

Probable (5). These teams have a 65 percent T.O.P or better and should make the tournament, provided they suffer "no bad losses" down the stretch: Syracuse, Providence, Vanderbilt, Cincinnati, Connecticut.

Coin flip (8). These teams are in the 50/50 T.O.P range and need at least one more "good win" to make the field: Michigan, Butler, Florida, Oregon State, Gonzaga, Tulsa, St. Bonaventure, Alabama.

Possible (4). These teams have a 35 percent T.O.P. or lower and need a really big finish and/or deep conference-tournament run: George Washington, Ohio State, Washington, LSU.

Long shots (7). These teams aren't completely off the board, but they better not lose before their respective conference-championship games. In a typical year, no one from this category actually makes the tournament: BYU, Stanford, Creighton, Clemson, Florida State, Marquette, Georgia Tech.

The sane people on the board know you're correct. We're all just wondering why you're still arguing with people who will never admit that...

 

[auror]

The board here had people looking at all the measures, not only RPI (41) but BPI. Most here looked and said we were a lock. I agreed.

UConn was 23-10 before the Cincy game. Tulsa was 20-12. With a weaker OOC than UConn played. As for league records, I distrust them in unbalanced leagues. Tulsa plays Tulane and East Carolina twice. Just one game separated them, 12-6, 11-7. I feel the same way about the league regular season. Unless you beat the 2nd place team by more than 1 game, the 2nd place team is the real champ if they win the tourney.

Regardless, UConn was far and away ahead of many teams that made it in.
Also, if you recall, the last 4 teams were Tulsa, Michigan, Wichita St, Vandy. The RPI of these last 4 was 62, 57, 48, 63. UConn was at 41 prior to Cincy. And they were way ahead in BPI.

So Tulsa wasn't even the team with the worst RPI. Vandy was at 19-13.

The committee wasn't a slave to RPI ranking, but they were paying attention to RPI top 50 wins.

From posts at the time:
"Syracuse's inclusion in the field wasn't close. He said the Orange had five top 50 wins, including at Duke and neutral-site wins over UConn and Texas A&M in the Bahamas that were the difference - Committee chair Joe Castiglione."
"Castiglione said Tulsa got in over its competition because of four top 50 wins. "
"Tulsa got in because they were 4-5 against RPI Top 50, UConn was 2-5 before the tournament, would have been 2-6 with Cincy loss."

I think UConn still gets in, but it definitely wasn't a lock just because Tulsa got in.

 

[upstater]

The committee wasn't a slave to RPI ranking, but they were paying attention to RPI top 50 wins.

From posts at the time:
"Syracuse's inclusion in the field wasn't close. He said the Orange had five top 50 wins, including at Duke and neutral-site wins over UConn and Texas A&M in the Bahamas that were the difference - Committee chair Joe Castiglione."
"Castiglione said Tulsa got in over its competition because of four top 50 wins. "
"Tulsa got in because they were 4-5 against RPI Top 50, UConn was 2-5 before the tournament, would have been 2-6 with Cincy loss."

I think UConn still gets in, but it definitely wasn't a lock.

Much discussed at the time, but how about wins just outside the top 50? They don't get ignored. UConn was 5-8 top 75. Guess what Tulsa was? 5-8.

You can cut this up 100 different ways, especially since the committee explicitly said it would take other rating systems into account, BPI, Pomeroy, and UConn was light years ahead of Tulsa there (UConn actually finished at 18 in BPI).

 

[Robertelamin]

If Jalen doesn't have the ball in his hands the majority of the time next year then his talents are being wasted. AG and MAL are going to have to figure out their roles. Ricky, Shabazz and Boat were all able to make it work and it there is a good chance it will only be for 1 year anyway.

 

[SouthBayHusky]

You can say that about every single at large team that isn't a top 5 seed. If the committee is going to do monumental craziness, then of course no one is safe, but here we are talking about reasonable measures. Like how a Tulsa team, with an RPI of 65, and a worse record than UConn, gets in over a UConn team with an RPI of 41 (which is UConn's RPI prior to the Cincy game), better record, and better OOC and SOS.

When the committee seeds Uconn #9, after beating Cincinnati to win the AAC tournament, you're not a "lock" before you win that game. Yes, you're probably in but calling them a lock prior to the win is inaccurate