KO - Victim of discrimination and denied due process?

[UConnNick]

There have been other coaches who did not win at UConn. I sat at the games and suffered too. But, nobody sniffed around to find cause to fire Diaco or the others and it is highly likely that there was something as significant to find. Firing a losing coach I don't object to, but some here say KO is a loser so he deserves this. Firing maybe, but not for cause.

If Diaco was an NCAA cheater, he sucked at it way worse than Ollie did, considering two of his three teams were way worse than any of Ollie's teams.

 

[CL82]

If Diaco was an NCAA cheater, he sucked at it way worse than Ollie did, considering two of his three teams were way worse than any of Ollie's teams.

Sort of different facts. There was an ongoing NCAA investigation of Ollie at the time of the termination, not doing utilizing the just cause language would have been grounds for someone losing their job, in my opinion.

 

[Rico444]

I just want this to end. The homers on both sides of the coin are out of control and it's driving me crazy reading their rationalizations.

 

[uconndogs]

Wait, let me get this right... you tried to warn KO in person regarding GM’s plan? How about the time/year and general location for us (and on the Boneyard and claiming the “gag order” won’t cut it).

No it's completely legit. Whenever Chief posts in the third person I am totally convinced of his credibility.

 

[Chief00]

Absolutely! Well except that the "just cause" is a defined term under the contract and Ollie has met the elements of it... but other than that spot on.

Ok - Chief will make the the offer to be mediator between Benedict and KO. No one else in the room. We will agree within an hour - then have drinks.

 

[DMIL]

Sort of different facts. There was an ongoing NCAA investigation of Ollie at the time of the termination, not doing utilizing the just cause language would have been grounds for someone losing their job, in my opinion.

An investigation more than likely initiated by GM and any other conspirators in secret.

 

[DMIL]

Ok - Chief will make the the offer to be mediator between Benedict and KO. No one else in the room. We will agree within an hour - then have drinks.

Let’s make that happen Chief!

 

[Chief00]

Let’s make that happen Chief!

They need to suspend their legal representatives - then we can get it done.

 

[UCDaveD]

I have yet to hear a single argument in favor of Kevin Ollie receiving the $10M that couldn’t be torn apart by the average 1L student.

 

[Huskybass]

I have yet to hear a single argument in favor of Kevin Ollie receiving the $10M that couldn’t be torn apart by the average 1L student.

A coherent, bright 8th grader could succesfully demonstrate that "cause" has been met. The converse is impossible though.

 

[champs99and04]

Race has absolutely played a role in our reaction to everything that's happened.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Race has absolutely played a role in our reaction to everything that's happened.

Oh please. That's so tired and ridiculous.

Edit: if you want to look for an external factor, look at conference realignment. If UConn was awash in Big Ten money, maybe the notion of paying millions to an under-performing former player turned coach would be more well received. Instead, we are struggling to fund the department. As a fan, I don't want them to spend a dime (intentional reference) that they don't have to. To anyone. For anything. It wouldn't matter if that failed coach was Pikiell or Ollie.

 

[temery]

Oh please. That's so tired and ridiculous.

Edit: if you want to look for an external factor, look at conference realignment. If UConn was awash in Big Ten money, maybe the notion of paying millions to an under-performing former player turned coach would be more well received. Instead, we are struggling to fund the department. As a fan, I don't want them to spend a dime (intentional reference) that they don't have to. To anyone. For anything. It wouldn't matter if that failed coach was Pikiell or Ollie.

UConn was "awash in Big East money" in its prime, yet retained Calhoun even after a bad season or two.

I'm not saying he was fired because he's black, but Calhoun had bad seasons, and he was retained without question.

I believe a new coach was needed, and Ollie could be as successful elsewhere, if given a fresh start. I also believe Ollie is owed every penny of the contract signed by the university.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

I have yet to hear a single argument in favor of Kevin Ollie receiving the $10M that couldn’t be torn apart by the average 1L student.

Here, the "reasonable standard of care" will suffice. The *average* leaves fully 50% unqualified. But remember, those same 1Ls learn that "Arbitration" shares the same linguistic roots as "arbitrary," so no legal decision either way is guaranteed.

 

[CL82]

I believe a new coach was needed. I also believe Ollie is owed every penny of the contract signed by the university.

Me too, since he's owed nothing under the contract but I'm guessing that's not what you mean.

Tom can you explain what your reasoning is? Here's the contract language:

Given what we now know, it seems pretty clear that Ollie isn't "owed" that money. There is no de minimus exception. And in any event, paying for the hotel rooms, food and transportation to Atlanta, is pretty significant. It typically is avoided by Ollie's defenders who like to focus on the Ray Allen call or the shooting hoops.

 

[Huskymagic]

KO’s work ethic stood out to me. I have told the story how I encountered KO with Patrick Knight on more than one occasion, doing an early morning weekend workout during his CT Pride days.
I really think managing a program was a different skill set and one he did not enjoy or quite frankly had a clue about and therefore he kind of disengaged.

As for Miller, KO was tone deaf at first and naive - Miller really put the knife in his back. Chief tried to warn him and only after it was too late did he realize he had a rat on his hands.

Chief you've been highly concerned and working overdrive to convince people that Miller was a Benedict Arnold the entire time, and convincing us that Ollie should be payed the buyout money because he's a good guy.

Ollie should be thanking Calhoun and UCONN for making him tens of millions over his career.

PS: It came to this from UCONN's side because Ollie would not leave voluntarily and wouldn't cooperate with the university. That's typically what happens everywhere in life when you don't cooperate with your employer. Don't feel sorry for Ollie: he's good. He never has to work a day in his life again.

 

[superjohn]

Race has absolutely played a role in our reaction to everything that's happened.

You've got issues.

 

[superjohn]

UConn was "awash in Big East money" in its prime, yet retained Calhoun even after a bad season or two.

I'm not saying he was fired because he's black, but Calhoun had bad seasons, and he was retained without question.

I believe a new coach was needed, and Ollie could be as successful elsewhere, if given a fresh start. I also believe Ollie is owed every penny of the contract signed by the university.

I know very little.

You should have just left it at this.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Oh please. That's so tired and ridiculous.

If you're in a position to label the notion of race "tired and ridiculous," offer up some prayers of thanks. Doesn't even matter who you send them to. The universe could always use a touch more humble appreciation.

I can't locate the case to support a $10 million obligation, but I continue to believe there is ample basis for legal settlement prior to an arbitrator's award or a judge's decision. And I further believe that both parties should be motivated to pursue this path without delay.

Is today the close of the 15 day period within which KO can chose arbitration? Is it calendar days, business days, or what?

 

[temery]

Me too, since he's owed nothing under the contract but I'm guessing that's not what you mean.

Tom can you explain what your reasoning is? Here's the contract language:
View attachment 32704
Given what we now know, it seems pretty clear that Ollie isn't "owed" that money. There is no de minimus exception. And in any event, paying for the hotel rooms, food and transportation to Atlanta, is pretty significant. It typically is avoided by Ollie's defenders who like to focus on the Ray Allen call or the shooting hoops.

Many years ago I mistakingly attended a workshop for school administrators. All presenters were lawyers, with administrators in the chairs.

I stayed to hear what they had to say, mostly because I wasn't supposed to be there.

A common theme was, "be consistent when enforcing rules and regulations. Failure to do so will likely result in legal action, and you'll lose."

No university would look favorably when put under a microscope. My guess is UConn will not only settle, the NCAA will make it worth their time in doing do.

 

[Pudge]

KO is getting more than $0.

Purely because the State of Connecticut and UCONN does not want to go through the excruciating process of discovery and public disclosure beyond what has already been placed in public. And ... unlike some on the Boneyard, it is simply not pro forma. It is penny ante stuff in the whole realm of litigation. You can make this into a mountain ... from its molehill beginnings; but, KO has a NC and several good years of records. Simply put: He was not fired - clearly - because of the compliance issues.

I think he should be placed in the "Huskies of Honor" for the NC. And there ... 90% of you can get upset. But, what's our $ output on that. And probably gives this recently divorced recently fired tough times Kevin Ollie a saving grace. And it is deserved.

There is nothing comparable to Kevin Ollie in my years of watching CBB. Since the Astrodome Game of Elvin Hayes and Lew Alcindor. Steve Fisher (?) at Michigan and then resurrected at San Diego State. But, you simply don't have an Alum lead you to a unreal National Championship and then fall so dramatically. Settle. Whatever he turned down in February is probably acceptable today.

 

[BlueMAB]

Many years ago I mistakingly attended a workshop for school administrators. All presenters were lawyers, with administrators in the chairs.

I stayed to hear what they had to say, mostly because I wasn't supposed to be there.

A common theme was, "be consistent when enforcing rules and regulations. Failure to do so will likely result in legal action, and you'll lose."

No university would look favorably when put under a microscope. My guess is UConn will not only settle, the NCAA will make it worth their time in doing do.

Ollie's lawyer has a legitimate argument that the school was inconsistent in their treatment of the coaches.

However; UConn has a legitimate defense by arguing 1) due to NCAA sanctions, they had to change the way they responded to violations; 2) the NCAA sanctions stemmed from, and specifically applied to, the men's basketball program, 3) further violations by the men's program would lead to increasingly harsh punishments, and 4) these are the reasons the contract language in Ollie's contract is/was stronger than prior contracts; and a zero-tolerance policy was required.

Ollie's only argument at that point is, "show us Hurley's contract".

If it doesn't have the same/very similar language, then the school is inconsistent, and Ollie finally has a shot at actually winning something again.

 

[CL82]

Many years ago I mistakingly attended a workshop for school administrators. All presenters were lawyers, with administrators in the chairs.

I stayed to hear what they had to say, mostly because I wasn't supposed to be there.

A common theme was, "be consistent when enforcing rules and regulations. Failure to do so will likely result in legal action, and you'll lose."

No university would look favorably when put under a microscope. My guess is UConn will not only settle, the NCAA will make it worth their time in doing do.

The argument that other coaches were not fired for secondary offenses is probably Ollie's best should at this point in time. I doubt it will carry the day though. It may not even be addressed in arbitration.

I don't see how the NCAA will be involved in this grievance. They aren't a party and in any event they are unlikely to act while it is pending.

 

[temery]

Ollie's lawyer has a legitimate argument that the school was inconsistent in their treatment of the coaches.

However; UConn has a legitimate defense by arguing 1) due to NCAA sanctions, they had to change the way they responded to violations; 2) the NCAA sanctions applied stemmed from, and specifically applied to, the men's basketball program, 3) further violations by the men's program would lead to increasingly harsh punishments, and 4) these are the reasons the contract language in Ollie's contract is/was stronger than prior contracts; and a zero-tolerance policy was required.

Ollie's only argument at that point is, "show us Hurley's contract".

If it doesn't have the same/very similar language, then the school is inconsistent, and Ollie finally has a shot at actually winning something again.

Ollie's lawyer has a legitimate argument that the school was inconsistent in their treatment of the coaches.

However; UConn has a legitimate defense by arguing 1) due to NCAA sanctions, they had to change the way they responded to violations; 2) the NCAA sanctions applied stemmed from, and specifically applied to, the men's basketball program, 3) further violations by the men's program would lead to increasingly harsh punishments, and 4) these are the reasons the contract language in Ollie's contract is/was stronger than prior contracts; and a zero-tolerance policy was required.

Ollie's only argument at that point is, "show us Hurley's contract".

If it doesn't have the same/very similar language, then the school is inconsistent, and Ollie finally has a shot at actually winning something again.

It's not Hurley's contract that matters as much as Calhoun's. If Calhoun wasn't fired after the loss of scholarships and post season play, then Ollie has a solid case.

Pay Ollie, and let's move on.

 

[mrl2016]

It's not Hurley's contract that matters as much as Calhoun's. If Calhoun wasn't fired after the loss of scholarships and post season play, then Ollie has a solid case.

Pay Ollie, and let's move on.

His entire post was about how it's not Calhoun's contract that matters. You either missed or ignored the point he was trying to make. I for one think he's making an extremely objective argument.

 

[BlueMAB]

It's not Hurley's contract that matters as much as Calhoun's. If Calhoun wasn't fired after the loss of scholarships and post season play, then Ollie has a solid case.

Pay Ollie, and let's move on.

You're right, I'm operating under the assumption that Calhoun didn't have that language in his contract. If it did, which IMO is very unlikely, then Ollie should be paid.

 

[BlueMAB]

His entire post was about how it's not Calhoun's contract that matters. You either missed or ignored the point he was trying to make. I for one think he's making an extremely objective argument.

No, he made a fair point, Calhoun's contract matters. He broke the rules and wasn't fired. But I'm assuming his contract didn't contain language as strong as Ollie's. I think that's a very safe assumption, but I've never seen his contract.

 

[HuskyHawk]

UConn was "awash in Big East money" in its prime, yet retained Calhoun even after a bad season or two.

I'm not saying he was fired because he's black, but Calhoun had bad seasons, and he was retained without question.

I believe a new coach was needed, and Ollie could be as successful elsewhere

, if given a fresh start. I also believe Ollie is owed every penny of the contract signed by the university.

I was at UConn when Calhoun arrived. I watched Perno coach for several years, and saw Calhoun's two worst teams up close. None of those teams, not Calhoun's first two, or those Perno teams, were as poorly coached as UConn was the last two years. Some were less talented, and JC certainly faced a much tougher schedule.

This wasn't "had bad seasons". He was the worst coach in D1 basketball last year. After the injuries of 2016-17, I was hoping he'd pull together and make the changes in his approach that he talked about in the offseason. He didn't. The team was unprepared for almost every opponent, the personnel usage was incredibly bad, and the team was completely lacking in discipline, energy, toughness and every other hallmark of a well coached team.

He violated the terms of the contract quite clearly, and so is not owed a penny.

 

[DMIL]

Chief you've been highly concerned and working overdrive to convince people that Miller was a Benedict Arnold the entire time, and convincing us that Ollie should be payed the buyout money because he's a good guy.

Ollie should be thanking Calhoun and UCONN for making him tens of millions over his career.

PS: It came to this from UCONN's side because Ollie would not leave voluntarily and wouldn't cooperate with the university. That's typically what happens everywhere in life when you don't cooperate with your employer. Don't feel sorry for Ollie: he's good. He never has to work a day in his life again.

That is not the argument he was making "because he's a good guy". Are you a corporation or are you a human being? Do you believe human beings should have rights as well as employees of corporations? Who are you to say or determine if he is "Good" or not. That's not your call.

We should be thankful for Ollie's contribution to the University and the great state of Connecticut. He never had to come across the country to Storrs. Ollie had plenty of options. He contributed 4 years as a player for a number of those successful teams in the early 90's. He contributed as an Alumni, as a UCONN advocate in the NBA for 13 years, as a recruiter, as a Connecticut resident, as a sponsor and chair of numerous charitie, as an Assistant Coach on our 2011 National Title, as our Head Coach in a penalty ridden banned from the tournament year as Head Coach literally stopping our program from falling completely on it's face acting as a bridge for the post Calhoun years, as a Head Coach for our 2014 National Title. Kevin should be getting a plaque from UCONN within 10 to 15 years and not when he is 85 years old.

To the contrary....he's not only thanked UCONN, UCONN NATION, the state of Connecticut and Jim Calhoun but has contributed significantly and none of that can be erased with a couple of bad years. JC knew what he was getting when he recruited K.O. and our Great University and the state of Connecticut benefited greatly. 2 tough years with K.O. as head coach is not going to erase all of his contributions. This is a UCONN family dispute. Don't make it more than what it is. We should be grateful for Ollie's contribution and continued support of the state, University and his charities. The last few years has been a stain, that's it.

 

[mrl2016]

No, he made a fair point, Calhoun's contract matters. He broke the rules and wasn't fired. But I'm assuming his contract didn't contain language as strong as Ollie's. I think that's a very safe assumption, but I've never seen his contract.

I see. I missed the part about assuming Calhoun's contract had similar just cause language. If that's what he's assuming it is a fair point- just something I find highly unlikely.