KLS

[Gus Mahler]

Agreed. I will say that I was a bit dissappointed with Lou's play while watching the game. That said, I thought she got fouled a few times that were not called that led to a TO. And outside of having 4 more TO than Saniya their stats were similar. Plus both played a role in the full-court press. I recognize that Saniya played a better game, not doubt, but the difference in everyone going crazy over her play vs KLS having a terrible game is interesting. What is also interesting is Kia has zero assists, 0 rebounds and no FT attempts but nothing said of her play.

## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
33 Samuelson, Katie Lou f 5-12 2-8 3-4 1 5 6 1 15 2 6 0 1 40
11 Nurse, Kia..... g 3-5 3-4 0-0 0 0 0 3 9 0 2 0 0 31
12 Chong, Saniya.. g 4-6 3-5 5-6 1 4 5 0 16 3 2 0 0 38

Trust me, I see the games and understand that Kia is a better defender. However, what is interesting is that Lou beats her in steals by quite a bit (51 vs 32,) blocks (8 vs 3 minimal but just pointing out,) and defensive rebounds (113 vs 55.) I realize stats do not tell the entire story but looking at defensive stats and Kia being a great defender and Lou being lousy seems someone is getting a bad wrap.

All that to say, if I were Lou I would train all summer on leg strength, agility, and jumping (pliometrics.) I would also study tape of Pheese in rebound and post positioning.

A follow-up on Lou and steals:

She made a good steal yesterday probably mid-way through the second quarter. She wormed her way down court and charmed in a 4-footer to complete the play. But ESPN was coming out of the studio and of course they had to jabber about pronouncing QU and the play wasn't called at all. And of course no replay, because the next replay had to focus on DB belaboring the backdoor pass that Gabby "called."

Call the friggin' game!!!!!!

 

[CajunHusky]

Lou is one of the players that other teams have targeted.... they cover her like a second shadow to prevent her from going off 10-10 from behind the arc. She is being covered.... don't worry Chicken Little she will be fine.

here is one of those "turnovers" Note ref not blowing his whistle.

 

[JoePgh]

From Referee Bruce Morris's viewpoint, if there was a hack on Lou's arm by Canada, he couldn't have seen it from that angle since Lou's body was between him and the evidence, so you can't expect him to call it. Another official with the same line of sight as the camera would have had to make the call.

But IMHO, the two still photos above don't prove that there was a foul, or that there wasn't. There would have been a foul if and only if Canada's right hand had contacted Lou's left hand during its upward motion between the two images. If it contacted the ball instead of Lou's arm, there was no foul.

 

[augustaTC]

If Katie Lou thinks she might have a chance to play her sister, I think she'll play possessed to have that chance.

 

[eebmg]

If Katie Lou thinks she might have a chance to play her sister, I think she'll play possessed to have that chance.

Not always the best for a player to overhype the game. Best to treat all games in a similar manner.

 

[Ralph]

seems like a lot of times the team gets up 15 playing tough, aggressive but foul causing defense. Then they back off so they don't get too many fouls, just maintain that lead. Gabby and Collier come out for a rest because they have a few fouls and they play harder so they can use the rest. Shows up at the end when we missed a number of foul shots, weak legs. KLS has no fouls so no need to take her out. She plays at a more relaxed pace, so maybe not as tired, but that is because Geno seems to use her more out front so her height and length mess with passing lanes, not going for rebounds, then needles her for her lack of rebounds. That is Geno. Love him or hate him. I love the guy. We also don't see Kia getting too many defensive rebounds because it seems like Geno has her being the one who is running down court for the fast break layup if Gabby or Collier can get the rebound. We can't complain that someone isn't doing something if Geno has them doing something else. I trust him a lot better than me at coaching basketball.

 

[caramel]

If Lou had a sub-par or bad game against the Lady Bruins,then we should be expecting a really good game next from Lou .
The last time Lou had a game where she was short of everyone's expectations,she came out the next game and was on fire.
I would not be surprised if she does that Monday night,and everyone here gives her is a pat on the back,not a kick in the rear.

 

[PAHuskeyFan]

From Referee Bruce Morris's viewpoint, if there was a hack on Lou's arm by Canada, he couldn't have seen it from that angle since Lou's body was between him and the evidence, so you can't expect him to call it. Another official with the same line of sight as the camera would have had to make the call.

But IMHO, the two still photos above don't prove that there was a foul, or that there wasn't. There would have been a foul if and only if Canada's right hand had contacted Lou's left hand during its upward motion between the two images. If it contacted the ball instead of Lou's arm, there was no foul.

Interesting take on the two stills I have no experience as a BB Referee, and admit this is the OPINION of a "layman"... but in the first still, I see Canada striking Lou's right hip/thigh with her left hip...which is normally called a "blocking" foul (if I'm not mistaken)...And...it seems that Referee Morris could have seen that contact... and in same still Canada's left arm is striking Lou's right arm/shoulder and chin...which Referee Morris may have been blocked out of seeing... but then in the second still, Lou's head snapping backward seems like pretty solid evidence that she was smacked pretty solidly in the face/chin... and I would hope that Referee Morris would have been able to see that. And, since Lou had the ball, one would think that one of the other two Referees would have had an angle to have observed any one of the at least 3 contacts on Lou ... Just my Opinion of course... either there was a foul, or Lou should be nominated for an Oscar... Again, I have never been, nor do I ever want to be a Basketball Referee... this is just My OPINION from what the two stills show.

 

[HuskyNan]

From Referee Bruce Morris's viewpoint, if there was a hack on Lou's arm by Canada, he couldn't have seen it from that angle since Lou's body was between him and the evidence, so you can't expect him to call it. Another official with the same line of sight as the camera would have had to make the call.

But IMHO, the two still photos above don't prove that there was a foul, or that there wasn't. There would have been a foul if and only if Canada's right hand had contacted Lou's left hand during its upward motion between the two images. If it contacted the ball instead of Lou's arm, there was no foul.

I could hear the slap up in row P.

 

[PAHuskeyFan]

I could hear the slap up in row P.

and didn't I read in a previous post that you were at the game... ??

 

[Husky fanatic]

I could hear the slap up in row P.

I could hear the slap up in row P.

Also in row P

 

[GoUconn7961]

Lou is Lou - if Geno has faith in her then that's enough for me. She's still just a sophomore playing a game - she's not performing brain surgery. It's great to analyze the game but we need to remember that these are kids essentially playing a game for free for our entertainment and their pride. I get carried away too (a lot) but lately I've tried to take a step back and realize the pressure these kids are under. I just want them all to look back on it w/fondness knowing they worked hard and had fun. Not everyone can be a Kelly Faris on defense.

 

[DefenseBB]

It was the shoes?

Actually it was freaken Napheesa Collier wearing her hair in a poney tail and not a bun! Get back to the good bun Karma!!!

 

[Centerstream]

Bruce Morris has made many calls that he doesn't actually see. It seems like many calls are made under the assumption that there was contact. For example when a defender is standing with their arms straight up in the air and is called for hitting the shooter's arm. But in the post with the two still shots, he saw her get mugged as did at least one of the two other refs.

 

[Lynx23]

Agreed. I will say that I was a bit dissappointed with Lou's play while watching the game. That said, I thought she got fouled a few times that were not called that led to a TO. And outside of having 4 more TO than Saniya their stats were similar. Plus both played a role in the full-court press. I recognize that Saniya played a better game, not doubt, but the difference in everyone going crazy over her play vs KLS having a terrible game is interesting. What is also interesting is Kia has zero assists, 0 rebounds and no FT attempts but nothing said of her play.

## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
33 Samuelson, Katie Lou f 5-12 2-8 3-4 1 5 6 1 15 2 6 0 1 40
11 Nurse, Kia..... g 3-5 3-4 0-0 0 0 0 3 9 0 2 0 0 31
12 Chong, Saniya.. g 4-6 3-5 5-6 1 4 5 0 16 3 2 0 0 38

Trust me, I see the games and understand that Kia is a better defender. However, what is interesting is that Lou beats her in steals by quite a bit (51 vs 32,) blocks (8 vs 3 minimal but just pointing out,) and defensive rebounds (113 vs 55.) I realize stats do not tell the entire story but looking at defensive stats and Kia being a great defender and Lou being lousy seems someone is getting a bad wrap.

All that to say, if I were Lou I would train all summer on leg strength, agility, and jumping (pliometrics.) I would also study tape of Pheese in rebound and post positioning.

Kia doesn't have Lou's height, Gabby's "hops", Saniya's quickness, or Pheesa's nose for the ball. What she does have is a strong basketball IQ and heart. Not that the others don't, but Kia has it in spades in my opinion and makes the most out of the natural talents she does have; no one questions her effort even if she's not putting up the number others do. The problem with KLS is that she has set such a high standard for herself that her fans (and there are many on this board) are disappointed when she doesn't meet their expectations. I would expect that the emergence of Collier and Williams and the attention afforded them might be part of the reason as well. Everyone likes to see his or her favorite player reap accolades. What I object to is the tendency on this board to exalt one's favorite player by diminishing another (as is done here) and Kia's name seems to come up quite often in these instances. BTW, Kia is rarely in a position to make a rebound because she's usually on the perimeter, defensively and offensively. She 's certainly not going to out jump her teammates either. However, she is usually the first one down the floor on a fast break. FWIW, 60% accuracy on general shooting and 75% on 3-pointers is pretty good. Obviously her three fouls didn't help as they resulted in limited minutes but I thought two of them were questionable. She and an opponent went up for a 50-50 ball; one lands on her feet and the other splatters. Kia gets the foul. It also seems like this is one of those games where she deferred to teammates who might have had a better shot and their stats benefitted. Actually, she does that quite often. I think Kia has proven in this tournament that she can toss up 20+ points when she needs to. KLS is a great player. I think all of the negativity on this board about her performance is much ado about nothing. It's a team sport; everyone contributes. She'll be fine.

 

[UcMiami]

From Referee Bruce Morris's viewpoint, if there was a hack on Lou's arm by Canada, he couldn't have seen it from that angle since Lou's body was between him and the evidence, so you can't expect him to call it. Another official with the same line of sight as the camera would have had to make the call.

But IMHO, the two still photos above don't prove that there was a foul, or that there wasn't. There would have been a foul if and only if Canada's right hand had contacted Lou's left hand during its upward motion between the two images. If it contacted the ball instead of Lou's arm, there was no foul.

Note the way Lou's head is thrown back in the second picture after the contact between Jordan's forearm and her face - not only could the ref behind and in the picture could see the play but the other two could as well. And everyone wants to complain about Syracuse and facial contact on Lou!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

“She is one of my favorite players, one of my favorite kids. A week doesn’t go by when I’ll say, ‘man, we’ve got the wrong Samuelson.’ They got the one who plays really hard, is really emotional, dives on loose balls, plays good defense, gets her hands up on shooters. We’ve got the wrong one. I must say that once a week just to get Lou really worked up ... and it works all the time.”

UConn women’s notebook: Samuelson sisters Final Four showdown still in play

What does this have to do with the thread? I don't know. Got Baylor MS ST on my mind.

 

[JoePgh]

Note the way Lou's head is thrown back in the second picture after the contact between Jordan's forearm and her face - not only could the ref behind and in the picture could see the play but the other two could as well. And everyone wants to complain about Syracuse and facial contact on Lou!

If the referee only sees the head jerking backward and does not directly see contact to the face, he should not make a call. It is too easy to fake that reaction, cf. Mabrey The Elder.

Likewise the sound of a slap, even if it is audible in Row P, is not conclusive unless the referee's ear can reliably distinguish a slap on the face from a slap on the ball -- which I doubt.

 

[PAHuskeyFan]

If the referee only sees the head jerking backward and does not directly see contact to the face, he should not make a call. It is too easy to fake that reaction, cf. Mabrey The Elder.

Likewise the sound of a slap, even if it is audible in Row P, is not conclusive unless the referee's ear can reliably distinguish a slap on the face from a slap on the ball -- which I doubt.[/QUOTE

If the referee only sees the head jerking backward and does not directly see contact to the face, he should not make a call. It is too easy to fake that reaction, cf. Mabrey The Elder.

Likewise the sound of a slap, even if it is audible in Row P, is not conclusive unless the referee's ear can reliably distinguish a slap on the face from a slap on the ball -- which I doubt.

This is really fascinating... seriously... One can only wonder what the other refs were looking at, that at least 3 contacts with Lou were missed... and really... faking the reaction ????? in the matter of what was probably a milli second from still one to still two... Regardless this is the kind of defense Lou has had to deal with for much of this season.

 

[UcMiami]

If the referee only sees the head jerking backward and does not directly see contact to the face, he should not make a call. It is too easy to fake that reaction, cf. Mabrey The Elder.

Likewise the sound of a slap, even if it is audible in Row P, is not conclusive unless the referee's ear can reliably distinguish a slap on the face from a slap on the ball -- which I doubt.

Yup, now what world do you live in? The ref sees an arm going at a head, sees the head snap back and see the arm appear over the head he or she is blowing the whistle 99 out of 100 times even if the head is blocking the view of the actual contact. Heck they fall for the head fake with no body contact above the waist 80% of the time.

 

[HuskyNan]

Also in row P

Milford, EricinSanDiego, and AlaskaHusky are all in that row.

 

[Gus Mahler]

I wonder what Kia felt about being asked about "The Big Three"? Probably the same feeling Saniya gets when magazines and ESPN only want to talk about--and show--the "Core Four."

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think maybe you aren't giving UCLA enough credit ... I seem to remember the whole team contribute to an inordinate number of missed bunnies ..... you know what Geno says about missed layups!

maybe UCLA put up a good game?

I'm not sure what you mean regarding missed layups? I wasn't referring to bunnies that KLS or anyone else on UConn missed, more like her shots from distance were off just a bit but the major emphasis of my remarks was on her turnovers. She is usually better with her passes, so I was a bit surprised but there's FEW people on this board who are bigger fans of KLS than I am. I'm confident she's ready to break out and have a big game tomorrow night.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I wonder what Kia felt about being asked about "The Big Three"? Probably the same feeling Saniya gets when magazines and ESPN only want to talk about--and show--the "Core Four."

I think her teammates and her coaches and people "in the know" realize how important Kia is to this team. Her and Gabby are the team leaders and both get a lot of recognition, though maybe not as much as KLS and Pheesa.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Agreed. I will say that I was a bit dissappointed with Lou's play while watching the game. That said, I thought she got fouled a few times that were not called that led to a TO. And outside of having 4 more TO than Saniya their stats were similar. Plus both played a role in the full-court press. I recognize that Saniya played a better game, not doubt, but the difference in everyone going crazy over her play vs KLS having a terrible game is interesting. What is also interesting is Kia has zero assists, 0 rebounds and no FT attempts but nothing said of her play.

## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
33 Samuelson, Katie Lou f 5-12 2-8 3-4 1 5 6 1 15 2 6 0 1 40
11 Nurse, Kia..... g 3-5 3-4 0-0 0 0 0 3 9 0 2 0 0 31
12 Chong, Saniya.. g 4-6 3-5 5-6 1 4 5 0 16 3 2 0 0 38

Trust me, I see the games and understand that Kia is a better defender. However, what is interesting is that Lou beats her in steals by quite a bit (51 vs 32,) blocks (8 vs 3 minimal but just pointing out,) and defensive rebounds (113 vs 55.) I realize stats do not tell the entire story but looking at defensive stats and Kia being a great defender and Lou being lousy seems someone is getting a bad wrap.

All that to say, if I were Lou I would train all summer on leg strength, agility, and jumping (pliometrics.) I would also study tape of Pheese in rebound and post positioning.

I think that Katie Lou had a pretty decent first half yesterday though her second half, with only one point and a few really bad turnovers kind of stuck in peoples minds. She is NOT a particularly good defender but she isn't a major liability either and is improving, though some people don't seem to see it. It was mentioned by someone that she's probably dealing with some injury issues that effect her game to a degree because she tends to get mauled with some frequency, though a lot of referees don't seem to notice and allow that type of play to go on.

 

[Los24]

From Referee Bruce Morris's viewpoint, if there was a hack on Lou's arm by Canada, he couldn't have seen it from that angle since Lou's body was between him and the evidence, so you can't expect him to call it. Another official with the same line of sight as the camera would have had to make the call.

But IMHO, the two still photos above don't prove that there was a foul, or that there wasn't. There would have been a foul if and only if Canada's right hand had contacted Lou's left hand during its upward motion between the two images. If it contacted the ball instead of Lou's arm, there was no foul.

Are you looking at the same pictures that was posted? Canada's arm/elbow is clearly hitting Lou. Lu's body is not that of a flop either, she was hit pretty good.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think maybe you aren't giving UCLA enough credit ... I seem to remember the whole team contribute to an inordinate number of missed bunnies ..... you know what Geno says about missed layups!

maybe UCLA put up a good game?

I was referring to a couple of very sloppy passes in the second half that resulted in turnovers. I'm not suggesting that she didn't also have some nice passes that either resulted in baskets or at least could and should have resulted in baskets. I'm surprised that my post generated a reply that seemed to suggest some serious kind of negativity on my part. I'm a serious KLS fan and who disputes that her shot, particularly in the second half, was a bit off? I'm aware that she had two three point shots that got waved off, one because the 3rd quarter ended and the other, moments later, because a split second before she released the shot, a foul was called. The response about missed bunnies was so weird because I never referred to missed layups of any kind, whether hers or anyone elses.

 

[Los24]

Kia doesn't have Lou's height, Gabby's "hops", Saniya's quickness, or Pheesa's nose for the ball. What she does have is a strong basketball IQ and heart. Not that the others don't, but Kia has it in spades in my opinion and makes the most out of the natural talents she does have; no one questions her effort even if she's not putting up the number others do. The problem with KLS is that she has set such a high standard for herself that her fans (and there are many on this board) are disappointed when she doesn't meet their expectations. I would expect that the emergence of Collier and Williams and the attention afforded them might be part of the reason as well. Everyone likes to see his or her favorite player reap accolades. What I object to is the tendency on this board to exalt one's favorite player by diminishing another (as is done here) and Kia's name seems to come up quite often in these instances. BTW, Kia is rarely in a position to make a rebound because she's usually on the perimeter, defensively and offensively. She 's certainly not going to out jump her teammates either. However, she is usually the first one down the floor on a fast break. FWIW, 60% accuracy on general shooting and 75% on 3-pointers is pretty good. Obviously her three fouls didn't help as they resulted in limited minutes but I thought two of them were questionable. She and an opponent went up for a 50-50 ball; one lands on her feet and the other splatters. Kia gets the foul. It also seems like this is one of those games where she deferred to teammates who might have had a better shot and their stats benefitted. Actually, she does that quite often. I think Kia has proven in this tournament that she can toss up 20+ points when she needs to. KLS is a great player. I think all of the negativity on this board about her performance is much ado about nothing. It's a team sport; everyone contributes. She'll be fine.

I believe we are agreeing, but just want to point out I am not slamming Kia and the reason for bold section in my orginal post to emphasize that... My point is folks acting like Lou was terrible and if you put things in perspective she was just ok minus a couple bad turnovers.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Lou sucks the air out of the opposing defense. As long as she is out there, the other team provides additional slack to the remaining four.

 

[hoophuskee]

Agreed. I will say that I was a bit dissappointed with Lou's play while watching the game. That said, I thought she got fouled a few times that were not called that led to a TO. And outside of having 4 more TO than Saniya their stats were similar. Plus both played a role in the full-court press. I recognize that Saniya played a better game, not doubt, but the difference in everyone going crazy over her play vs KLS having a terrible game is interesting. What is also interesting is Kia has zero assists, 0 rebounds and no FT attempts but nothing said of her play.

## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
33 Samuelson, Katie Lou f 5-12 2-8 3-4 1 5 6 1 15 2 6 0 1 40
11 Nurse, Kia..... g 3-5 3-4 0-0 0 0 0 3 9 0 2 0 0 31
12 Chong, Saniya.. g 4-6 3-5 5-6 1 4 5 0 16 3 2 0 0 38

Trust me, I see the games and understand that Kia is a better defender. However, what is interesting is that Lou beats her in steals by quite a bit (51 vs 32,) blocks (8 vs 3 minimal but just pointing out,) and defensive rebounds (113 vs 55.) I realize stats do not tell the entire story but looking at defensive stats and Kia being a great defender and Lou being lousy seems someone is getting a bad wrap.

All that to say, if I were Lou I would train all summer on leg strength, agility, and jumping (pliometrics.) I would also study tape of Pheese in rebound and post positioning.

Lou is a 1st team a/a. Saniya isn't And Nurse isn't especially when she is hurting.