KLS

[UcMiami]

From Referee Bruce Morris's viewpoint, if there was a hack on Lou's arm by Canada, he couldn't have seen it from that angle since Lou's body was between him and the evidence, so you can't expect him to call it. Another official with the same line of sight as the camera would have had to make the call.

But IMHO, the two still photos above don't prove that there was a foul, or that there wasn't. There would have been a foul if and only if Canada's right hand had contacted Lou's left hand during its upward motion between the two images. If it contacted the ball instead of Lou's arm, there was no foul.

Note the way Lou's head is thrown back in the second picture after the contact between Jordan's forearm and her face - not only could the ref behind and in the picture could see the play but the other two could as well. And everyone wants to complain about Syracuse and facial contact on Lou!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

“She is one of my favorite players, one of my favorite kids. A week doesn’t go by when I’ll say, ‘man, we’ve got the wrong Samuelson.’ They got the one who plays really hard, is really emotional, dives on loose balls, plays good defense, gets her hands up on shooters. We’ve got the wrong one. I must say that once a week just to get Lou really worked up ... and it works all the time.”

UConn women’s notebook: Samuelson sisters Final Four showdown still in play

What does this have to do with the thread? I don't know. Got Baylor MS ST on my mind.

 

[JoePgh]

Note the way Lou's head is thrown back in the second picture after the contact between Jordan's forearm and her face - not only could the ref behind and in the picture could see the play but the other two could as well. And everyone wants to complain about Syracuse and facial contact on Lou!

If the referee only sees the head jerking backward and does not directly see contact to the face, he should not make a call. It is too easy to fake that reaction, cf. Mabrey The Elder.

Likewise the sound of a slap, even if it is audible in Row P, is not conclusive unless the referee's ear can reliably distinguish a slap on the face from a slap on the ball -- which I doubt.

 

[PAHuskeyFan]

If the referee only sees the head jerking backward and does not directly see contact to the face, he should not make a call. It is too easy to fake that reaction, cf. Mabrey The Elder.

Likewise the sound of a slap, even if it is audible in Row P, is not conclusive unless the referee's ear can reliably distinguish a slap on the face from a slap on the ball -- which I doubt.[/QUOTE

If the referee only sees the head jerking backward and does not directly see contact to the face, he should not make a call. It is too easy to fake that reaction, cf. Mabrey The Elder.

Likewise the sound of a slap, even if it is audible in Row P, is not conclusive unless the referee's ear can reliably distinguish a slap on the face from a slap on the ball -- which I doubt.

This is really fascinating... seriously... One can only wonder what the other refs were looking at, that at least 3 contacts with Lou were missed... and really... faking the reaction ????? in the matter of what was probably a milli second from still one to still two... Regardless this is the kind of defense Lou has had to deal with for much of this season.

 

[UcMiami]

If the referee only sees the head jerking backward and does not directly see contact to the face, he should not make a call. It is too easy to fake that reaction, cf. Mabrey The Elder.

Likewise the sound of a slap, even if it is audible in Row P, is not conclusive unless the referee's ear can reliably distinguish a slap on the face from a slap on the ball -- which I doubt.

Yup, now what world do you live in? The ref sees an arm going at a head, sees the head snap back and see the arm appear over the head he or she is blowing the whistle 99 out of 100 times even if the head is blocking the view of the actual contact. Heck they fall for the head fake with no body contact above the waist 80% of the time.

 

[HuskyNan]

Also in row P

Milford, EricinSanDiego, and AlaskaHusky are all in that row.

 

[Gus Mahler]

I wonder what Kia felt about being asked about "The Big Three"? Probably the same feeling Saniya gets when magazines and ESPN only want to talk about--and show--the "Core Four."

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think maybe you aren't giving UCLA enough credit ... I seem to remember the whole team contribute to an inordinate number of missed bunnies ..... you know what Geno says about missed layups!

maybe UCLA put up a good game?

I'm not sure what you mean regarding missed layups? I wasn't referring to bunnies that KLS or anyone else on UConn missed, more like her shots from distance were off just a bit but the major emphasis of my remarks was on her turnovers. She is usually better with her passes, so I was a bit surprised but there's FEW people on this board who are bigger fans of KLS than I am. I'm confident she's ready to break out and have a big game tomorrow night.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I wonder what Kia felt about being asked about "The Big Three"? Probably the same feeling Saniya gets when magazines and ESPN only want to talk about--and show--the "Core Four."

I think her teammates and her coaches and people "in the know" realize how important Kia is to this team. Her and Gabby are the team leaders and both get a lot of recognition, though maybe not as much as KLS and Pheesa.

 

[Buzzyboy]

Agreed. I will say that I was a bit dissappointed with Lou's play while watching the game. That said, I thought she got fouled a few times that were not called that led to a TO. And outside of having 4 more TO than Saniya their stats were similar. Plus both played a role in the full-court press. I recognize that Saniya played a better game, not doubt, but the difference in everyone going crazy over her play vs KLS having a terrible game is interesting. What is also interesting is Kia has zero assists, 0 rebounds and no FT attempts but nothing said of her play.

## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF Tyler Phommachanh A TO BLK S MIN
33 Samuelson, Katie Lou f 5-12 2-8 3-4 1 5 6 1 15 2 6 0 1 40
11 Nurse, Kia..... g 3-5 3-4 0-0 0 0 0 3 9 0 2 0 0 31
12 Chong, Saniya.. g 4-6 3-5 5-6 1 4 5 0 16 3 2 0 0 38

Trust me, I see the games and understand that Kia is a better defender. However, what is interesting is that Lou beats her in steals by quite a bit (51 vs 32,) blocks (8 vs 3 minimal but just pointing out,) and defensive rebounds (113 vs 55.) I realize stats do not tell the entire story but looking at defensive stats and Kia being a great defender and Lou being lousy seems someone is getting a bad wrap.

All that to say, if I were Lou I would train all summer on leg strength, agility, and jumping (pliometrics.) I would also study tape of Pheese in rebound and post positioning.

I think that Katie Lou had a pretty decent first half yesterday though her second half, with only one point and a few really bad turnovers kind of stuck in peoples minds. She is NOT a particularly good defender but she isn't a major liability either and is improving, though some people don't seem to see it. It was mentioned by someone that she's probably dealing with some injury issues that effect her game to a degree because she tends to get mauled with some frequency, though a lot of referees don't seem to notice and allow that type of play to go on.

 

[Los24]

From Referee Bruce Morris's viewpoint, if there was a hack on Lou's arm by Canada, he couldn't have seen it from that angle since Lou's body was between him and the evidence, so you can't expect him to call it. Another official with the same line of sight as the camera would have had to make the call.

But IMHO, the two still photos above don't prove that there was a foul, or that there wasn't. There would have been a foul if and only if Canada's right hand had contacted Lou's left hand during its upward motion between the two images. If it contacted the ball instead of Lou's arm, there was no foul.

Are you looking at the same pictures that was posted? Canada's arm/elbow is clearly hitting Lou. Lu's body is not that of a flop either, she was hit pretty good.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think maybe you aren't giving UCLA enough credit ... I seem to remember the whole team contribute to an inordinate number of missed bunnies ..... you know what Geno says about missed layups!

maybe UCLA put up a good game?

I was referring to a couple of very sloppy passes in the second half that resulted in turnovers. I'm not suggesting that she didn't also have some nice passes that either resulted in baskets or at least could and should have resulted in baskets. I'm surprised that my post generated a reply that seemed to suggest some serious kind of negativity on my part. I'm a serious KLS fan and who disputes that her shot, particularly in the second half, was a bit off? I'm aware that she had two three point shots that got waved off, one because the 3rd quarter ended and the other, moments later, because a split second before she released the shot, a foul was called. The response about missed bunnies was so weird because I never referred to missed layups of any kind, whether hers or anyone elses.

 

[Los24]

Kia doesn't have Lou's height, Gabby's "hops", Saniya's quickness, or Pheesa's nose for the ball. What she does have is a strong basketball IQ and heart. Not that the others don't, but Kia has it in spades in my opinion and makes the most out of the natural talents she does have; no one questions her effort even if she's not putting up the number others do. The problem with KLS is that she has set such a high standard for herself that her fans (and there are many on this board) are disappointed when she doesn't meet their expectations. I would expect that the emergence of Collier and Williams and the attention afforded them might be part of the reason as well. Everyone likes to see his or her favorite player reap accolades. What I object to is the tendency on this board to exalt one's favorite player by diminishing another (as is done here) and Kia's name seems to come up quite often in these instances. BTW, Kia is rarely in a position to make a rebound because she's usually on the perimeter, defensively and offensively. She 's certainly not going to out jump her teammates either. However, she is usually the first one down the floor on a fast break. FWIW, 60% accuracy on general shooting and 75% on 3-pointers is pretty good. Obviously her three fouls didn't help as they resulted in limited minutes but I thought two of them were questionable. She and an opponent went up for a 50-50 ball; one lands on her feet and the other splatters. Kia gets the foul. It also seems like this is one of those games where she deferred to teammates who might have had a better shot and their stats benefitted. Actually, she does that quite often. I think Kia has proven in this tournament that she can toss up 20+ points when she needs to. KLS is a great player. I think all of the negativity on this board about her performance is much ado about nothing. It's a team sport; everyone contributes. She'll be fine.

I believe we are agreeing, but just want to point out I am not slamming Kia and the reason for bold section in my orginal post to emphasize that... My point is folks acting like Lou was terrible and if you put things in perspective she was just ok minus a couple bad turnovers.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

Lou sucks the air out of the opposing defense. As long as she is out there, the other team provides additional slack to the remaining four.

 

[hoophuskee]

Agreed. I will say that I was a bit dissappointed with Lou's play while watching the game. That said, I thought she got fouled a few times that were not called that led to a TO. And outside of having 4 more TO than Saniya their stats were similar. Plus both played a role in the full-court press. I recognize that Saniya played a better game, not doubt, but the difference in everyone going crazy over her play vs KLS having a terrible game is interesting. What is also interesting is Kia has zero assists, 0 rebounds and no FT attempts but nothing said of her play.

## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF Tyler Phommachanh A TO BLK S MIN
33 Samuelson, Katie Lou f 5-12 2-8 3-4 1 5 6 1 15 2 6 0 1 40
11 Nurse, Kia..... g 3-5 3-4 0-0 0 0 0 3 9 0 2 0 0 31
12 Chong, Saniya.. g 4-6 3-5 5-6 1 4 5 0 16 3 2 0 0 38

Trust me, I see the games and understand that Kia is a better defender. However, what is interesting is that Lou beats her in steals by quite a bit (51 vs 32,) blocks (8 vs 3 minimal but just pointing out,) and defensive rebounds (113 vs 55.) I realize stats do not tell the entire story but looking at defensive stats and Kia being a great defender and Lou being lousy seems someone is getting a bad wrap.

All that to say, if I were Lou I would train all summer on leg strength, agility, and jumping (pliometrics.) I would also study tape of Pheese in rebound and post positioning.

Lou is a 1st team a/a. Saniya isn't And Nurse isn't especially when she is hurting.

 

[j66kicker]

I wonder what Kia felt about being asked about "The Big Three"? Probably the same feeling Saniya gets when magazines and ESPN only want to talk about--and show--the "Core Four."

I was thinking that too. When she went off for 29 against Syracuse the other day I wondered if she was just tired of hearing all the awards talk and not being included - or at least "reminding" people that she's a key part of the team. Whatever it was, like to see it again tonight...

 

[hjoerring]

One thing is clear, however. She is needed on the floor. The others are being asked to do a lot more-- hence the breaks. Lou has, at times, put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket with success. Whether she can do it consistently at this time against equally talented players-- maybe(not). About a month ago when many here were bragging about her carrying the team on her back to our next NC, I begged for caution. It will be a team effort and Gabby + Pheesa cannot be watching from the bench. It is way too early to speculate but defensively she is where Chong were, but the latter sat because we had Kia. With the people coming in next year, defense may very well determine who play, when and why. Today, we need all 5+ to pull things off. So, go Lou, Kia, Pheesa, Chong, Gabby and Subs.

 

[CajunHusky]

I was referring to a couple of very sloppy passes in the second half that resulted in turnovers. I'm not suggesting that she didn't also have some nice passes that either resulted in baskets or at least could and should have resulted in baskets. I'm surprised that my post generated a reply that seemed to suggest some serious kind of negativity on my part. I'm a serious KLS fan and who disputes that her shot, particularly in the second half, was a bit off? I'm aware that she had two three point shots that got waved off, one because the 3rd quarter ended and the other, moments later, because a split second before she released the shot, a foul was called. The response about missed bunnies was so weird because I never referred to missed layups of any kind, whether hers or anyone elses.

My point I think is contained in the first sentence .... maybe UConn looked sloppy because UCLA played a really good game. I was struck by a more than one pass that bounced off a player's back or out of bounds because the player for whom it was intended wasn't there. I think UCLA did a really good job of disrupting UConn's flow. The missed bunnies comment is meant to highlight they were off their game but I choose to give UCLA credit for knocking them off their game.

In the second half without the transition game (lack of UCLA turnovers) UConn settled in to a half court offense (not UConn's #1 strength)

 

[Papa33]

But IMHO, the two still photos above don't prove that there was a foul, or that there wasn't. There would have been a foul if and only if Canada's right hand had contacted Lou's left hand during its upward motion between the two images. If it contacted the ball instead of Lou's arm, there was no foul.

Kind of late to respond, but today, while looking through photos of that UCLA game, I came across the full four-picture sequence of that encounter. An earlier shot in the sequence shows— even more clearly than the first one appearing in this thread— that Canada's left arm and shoulder came across KLS's shoulder and into her body. Very much a foul, and given the postion of the elbow, worth a look at a flagrant. Canada violates more than one principle of defensive posture and position, which should increase the likelihood of a penalty call. I told my players that reaching in/or across a ballhandler's body was a sure invitation to a whistle. But I guess none of the three refs saw this one.

 

[hoophuskee]

One thing is clear, however. She is needed on the floor. The others are being asked to do a lot more-- hence the breaks. Lou has, at times, put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket with success. Whether she can do it consistently at this time against equally talented players-- maybe(not). About a month ago when many here were bragging about her carrying the team on her back to our next NC, I begged for caution. It will be a team effort and Gabby + Pheesa cannot be watching from the bench. It is way too early to speculate but defensively she is where Chong were, but the latter sat because we had Kia. With the people coming in next year, defense may very well determine who play, when and why. Today, we need all 5+ to pull things off. So, go Lou, Kia, Pheesa, Chong, Gabby and Subs.

Defense isn't the only thing. We've also heard Geno say things like it can't be 4 on 5 offensively. And we know Geno loves free-flowing offense. Next years lots of teams going to paly us zone. And I'm not so sure Collier is guard-like when going against a zone with her passing if she were forced to go to the perimeter. She'll need other perimeter help- maybe. Nurse wasn't shooting well before this latest hot steak in the she was in a mini-slump. And the same with Stevens outside game - the 3ball is questionable. Lou is 6'3. She starts to hit her 3-shots no way you can play UCONN a zone.

 

[HopJim]

From Referee Bruce Morris's viewpoint, if there was a hack on Lou's arm by Canada, he couldn't have seen it from that angle since Lou's body was between him and the evidence, so you can't expect him to call it. Another official with the same line of sight as the camera would have had to make the call.

But IMHO, the two still photos above don't prove that there was a foul, or that there wasn't. There would have been a foul if and only if Canada's right hand had contacted Lou's left hand during its upward motion between the two images. If it contacted the ball instead of Lou's arm, there was no foul.

LOL