Kevin Ollie | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Kevin Ollie

HuskyHawk said:
I'm going to be brutally honest here: I don't think any player rated higher than the bottom of the 3 star range would have any interest in redshirting. This isn't football. Neither of these two would have redshirted. It's not about missing a year when they transfer, it's about their ego. These kids can barely stand to be told they are coming off the bench.

Here is my prediction for where D1 college ball is going. UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas and maybe one or two others will be able to land top 5* kids each year and have 4* kids who sit until they are ready. The rest of the kids will increasingly go where they will start sooner and play more. The next level programs, like UConn and many others, will have less talent than they have traditionally. The next level down from that, Seton Hall, Alabama, Cal, etc. will get better. It will be very variable. It looks to me like 4* kids don't want to have to compete with other 4* kids and they are willing to go to St. Joes, or Lasalle, or Rutgers if that's what it takes. We see it with transfers now, but I think it will creep into recruiting from the outset.
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I think you are right about this.
 
CL82 said:
I believe the plan was to redshirt Durham until the roster was so depleted that we had more of an "all hands on deck" approach.
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I thought Juwan himself didn't want to redshirt, which is why he didn't.
 
HuskyHawk said:
I'm going to be brutally honest here: I don't think any player rated higher than the bottom of the 3 star range would have any interest in redshirting. This isn't football. Neither of these two would have redshirted. It's not about missing a year when they transfer, it's about their ego. These kids can barely stand to be told they are coming off the bench.

Here is my prediction for where D1 college ball is going. UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas and maybe one or two others will be able to land top 5* kids each year and have 4* kids who sit until they are ready. The rest of the kids will increasingly go where they will start sooner and play more. The next level programs, like UConn and many others, will have less talent than they have traditionally. The next level down from that, Seton Hall, Alabama, Cal, etc. will get better. It will be very variable. It looks to me like 4* kids don't want to have to compete with other 4* kids and they are willing to go to St. Joes, or Lasalle, or Rutgers if that's what it takes. We see it with transfers now, but I think it will creep into recruiting from the outset.
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Which makes it even more critical to find and develop those quality four year guys. A good 4 year guy is worth more than a 5* one and done. Especially late in the tournament.
 
KO

images
 
HuskyHawk said:
I'm going to be brutally honest here: I don't think any player rated higher than the bottom of the 3 star range would have any interest in redshirting. This isn't football. Neither of these two would have redshirted. It's not about missing a year when they transfer, it's about their ego. These kids can barely stand to be told they are coming off the bench.

Here is my prediction for where D1 college ball is going. UK, Duke, UNC, Kansas and maybe one or two others will be able to land top 5* kids each year and have 4* kids who sit until they are ready. The rest of the kids will increasingly go where they will start sooner and play more. The next level programs, like UConn and many others, will have less talent than they have traditionally. The next level down from that, Seton Hall, Alabama, Cal, etc. will get better. It will be very variable. It looks to me like 4* kids don't want to have to compete with other 4* kids and they are willing to go to St. Joes, or Lasalle, or Rutgers if that's what it takes. We see it with transfers now, but I think it will creep into recruiting from the outset.
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I think Avery Johnson is killing it at Alabama. This years class is ridiculous. Johnson & Co. stock through the roof. Last years class with Key was the start of something special at good ole Bama. Sexton & Petty...not to mention a couple other under the radar goodies will make this team one of the most fun teams in America. Beat SC twice last year and return everyone. Avery is such a likesble dude.
 
In this era you aren't landing many AAU all-stars if you start red shirting regardless of whether they would or would not benefit. The occasional guy or someone returning from injury? Sure. But if you told Enoch or Durham you would redshirt them they would be playing elsewhere. This ain't football where 90% or more red shirt.
 
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As far as Ollie goes, he is exactly what I thought he'd be. Utterly unprepared for the job. I didn't think he had put in the effort as an assistant/lower level head coach to truly learn the business. But here's the thing. I wanted a different head coach BECAUSE I WANT UCONN TO SUCCEED. I think the program is in the worst mess it's seen since Perno's final year. Ollie is a very nice guy. As I said elsewhere he could very well be a good NBA coach. But the UConn job is not one where you should get to use training wheels.
 
freescooter said:
As far as Ollie goes, he is exactly what I thought he'd be. Utterly unprepared for the job. I didn't think he had put in the effort as an assistant/lower level head coach to truly learn the business. But here's the thing. I wanted a different head coach BECAUSE I WANT UConn TO SUCCEED. I think the program is in the worst mess it's seen since Perno's final year. Ollie is a very nice guy. As I said elsewhere he could very well be a good NBA coach. But the UConn job is not one where you should get to use training wheels.
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Does winning a national championship in his second season count as succeeding? Asking for a friend
 
upstater said:
How do you think Enoch and Durham would have felt about redshirting?

I know they are effectively redshirting now but I'm talking about before the season.

It would not have gone over well, especially for Durham who hadn't played for 2 years.

Come to think of it, Durham will have played very little basketball over the previous 4 years when he finally steps on the court. Hard to be in good form when you've spent a majority of 4 years not playing in games.
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Durham made it clear he wasn't redshirting. KO's hands were tied.
 
jrazz12 said:
Does winning a national championship in his second season count as succeeding? Asking for a friend
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Well, since he inherited most of the players who contributed to that run, coupled with the last three years of mediocrity and two missed tourneys, sprinkled with the dumpster fire we find ourselves in currently, the strength of that argument has weakened substantially. Sure, it counts for something. But judging on where UConn is now, it will become increasingly more difficult to rest all of his success on that magical 3 week run. Of note, even prior to that run, the team was mediocre. In other words, over five years, that three week Run appears to be the outlier.
 
djct1994 summed it up pretty well. When you look at the whole body of work, from recruiting to won-loss record, especially when it came time to replace Calhoun's recruits, he has not succeeded. He is on the clock.
 
Ollie's record with his first recruiting class is 93-51.

Ollie's record since Shabazz left is 61-43.

Ollie's record in AAC play is 42-30.
 
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freescooter said:
As far as Ollie goes, he is exactly what I thought he'd be. Utterly unprepared for the job. I didn't think he had put in the effort as an assistant/lower level head coach to truly learn the business. But here's the thing. I wanted a different head coach BECAUSE I WANT UConn TO SUCCEED. I think the program is in the worst mess it's seen since Perno's final year. Ollie is a very nice guy. As I said elsewhere he could very well be a good NBA coach. But the UConn job is not one where you should get to use training wheels.
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I think the statue of limitations on "I told you so's" are a few years or winning a National Title, whichever comes first.

Most everyone was enamored with Ollie in his first two seasons. He's shown he can coach. The last three seasons and in particular this season were not up to standard.

I don't know what changed, but regardless of if Ollie has back to back under 500 seasons and we go a different way, I think it's tough to call it a failure given that National Titles don't grow on trees.

P.S. If I recall you were all about Shaka too? How's that working out for Texas?
 
ConnHuskBask said:
I think the statue of limitations on "I told you so's" are a few years or winning a National Title, whichever comes first.

Most everyone was enamored with Ollie in his first two seasons. He's shown he can coach. The last three seasons and in particular this season were not up to standard.

I don't know what changed, but regardless of if Ollie has back to back under 500 seasons and we go a different way, I think it's tough to call it a failure given that National Titles don't grow on trees.

P.S. If I recall you were all about Shaka too? How's that working out for Texas?
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The guy you're responding to savaged Ollie in 2014. And then after he won the NC, he disappeared. The previous poster should forever shut up.
 
upstater said:
The guy you're responding to savaged Ollie in 2014. And then after he won the NC, he disappeared. The previous poster should forever shut up.
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I know I'm on one end of the spectrum when it comes to KO and his future here, but I think I can at least have a reasonable discussion on the topic.

Simply ignoring the great things he's done here does no good for any discussion. Conversely, ignoring the decline is being willfully blind as well.
 
lange10 said:
Yikes
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What's even scarier is that since Shabazz left, Ollie's OOC record is 22-15.

Wins: Bryant, Dayton, CofC, Coppin State, Columbia, CCSU (x2), Florida, Maine, UNH, Furman, Michigan, Syracuse, Sacred Heart, Ohio State, UMass Lowell, Texas, Georgetown, Loyola Marymount, Chaminade, BU, North Florida.

Losses: WVU, Texas, Yale, Duke, Stanford, Syracuse, Gonzaga, Maryland, Wagner, Northeastern, OK State, Oregon, Ohio State, Auburn, Georgetown.
 
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I still think Shaka would have been a good choice for the UConn job. Just a good fit. His 2 years at Texas were 1 good and 1 bad so far. We'll see where he goes from there.

There are a few great coaches who can be really successful anywhere. Anybody doubt that Calhoun would be successful pretty much anyplace? On the other hand there are guys who are just the right fit. Rollie Massimino is an e ample. Great coach at Villanova. Basically flamed out at UNLV and Cleveland State. You see it all the time where a coach has success in one place them moves andnever quite clicks
 
freescooter said:
I still think Shaka would have been a good choice for the UConn job. Just a good fit. His 2 years at Texas were 1 good and 1 bad so far. We'll see where he goes from there.

There are a few great coaches who can be really successful anywhere. Anybody doubt that Calhoun would be successful pretty much anyplace? On the other hand there are guys who are just the right fit. Rollie Massimino is an e ample. Great coach at Villanova. Basically flamed out at UNLV and Cleveland State. You see it all the time where a coach has success in one place them moves andnever quite clicks
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So a coach who just finished 11-22 deserves more respect than a national championship winning coach who in his worst yr did better than that. All your credibility is officially lost
 
Rollie had a weird career. He was never a great coach - he had some very good years early at Nova and he had the '85 title. But after that, he wasn't really all that effective and Nova was happy to move him on.

UNLV was a disaster off the court - the UNLV prez concocted some scheme to pay Rollie more than what they were reporting and that is what got him fired in his second year. Cleveland State was just a dumpster fire - bad teams, arrests, drugs, violations. Really a disaster.

But the guy is still coaching! He's like 80-something and he's been killing it for a decade at some NAIA school in Florida.
 
CTBasketball said:
Ollie's record with his first recruiting class is 93-51.

Ollie's record since Shabazz left is 61-43.

Ollie's record in AAC play is 42-30.
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This makes perfect sense. As I've said before, that's what happens when you don't have a stud, experienced point guard in MCBB. This is a pretty simple concept to grasp. Possible to win without it, but not common.

And some semblance of supporting cast. We got the experience stud next year; hopefully there's enough of the supporting cast left to get it done.
 
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Fishy said:
Rollie had a weird career. He was never a great coach - he had some very good years early at Nova and he had the '85 title. But after that, he wasn't really all that effective and Nova was happy to move him on.

UNLV was a disaster off the court - the UNLV prez concocted some scheme to pay Rollie more than what they were reporting and that is what got him fired in his second year. Cleveland State was just a dumpster fire - bad teams, arrests, drugs, violations. Really a disaster.

But the guy is still coaching! He's like 80-something and he's been killing it for a decade at some NAIA school in Florida.
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Really? Damn, I could of sworn he was dead. That's amazing.
 
intlzncster said:
This makes perfect sense. As I've said before, that's what happens when you don't have a stud, experienced point guard. And some semblance of supporting cast. We got the experience stud next year; hopefully there's enough of the supporting cast left to get it done.
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I'm thinking we have 2 stud point guards next season, plus Vital's outside shooting, so our cupboard is not exactly bare in that area.
 
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jibsey said:
I'm thinking we have 2 stud point guards next season, plus Vital's outside shooting, so our cupboard is not exactly bare in that area.
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Technically yes, but don't discount experience. I put that word in there for a reason. Look at Kemba as a freshman vs junior. Even soph vs junior. Same thing for Bazz. Totally different players.

The only guys who were legit out the gate were KEA and Doron. And Doron was an older dude coming in.
 
intlzncster said:
Technically yes, but don't discount experience. I put that word in there for a reason. Look at Kemba as a freshman vs junior. Even soph vs junior. Same thing for Bazz. Totally different players.

The only guys who were legit out the gate were KEA and Doron. And Doron was an older dude coming in.
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A lot of Kemba's confidence and experience came from practicing against the USA FIBA Team in the summer preceding his junior year.
 
freescooter said:
I think the program is in the worst mess it's seen since Perno's final year. Ollie is a very nice guy. As I said elsewhere he could very well be a good NBA coach. But the UConn job is not one where you should get to use training wheels.
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No, it was in far, far worse straights in 2011/12.

And Shaka was more experienced, but from what I've seen, doesn't appear to be better.
 
intlzncster said:
Technically yes, but don't discount experience. I put that word in there for a reason. Look at Kemba as a freshman vs junior. Even soph vs junior. Same thing for Bazz. Totally different players.

The only guys who were legit out the gate were KEA and Doron. And Doron was an older dude coming in.
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If Jalen and Gilbert can hit the 3 which I think they can, we have a devastating backcourt next year. They are both already very good on the midrange and can get to the rim or dish. Larrier can do it all including rebounding so with a couple more pieces we can be talented.
 
If we get Waters, Williams and a little depth, and if things gel, this can be a very exciting team next year.
 
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