Ken Pomeroy goes after Syracuse's ridiculous scheduling practice...

[caw]

So funny how when it comes to bball UConn is all about Championships but then on football the posters here are all "we went bluh bluh bluh from 2004-2011 or whatever and were the 3rd best team in the BE over that span!"

Anyway, for awhile in the 90's Cuse did play a really bad OOC schedule. part of this was JB insisting on doing favors to Lemoyne, Colgate, Cornell (and now Eastern Michigan) to support other schools/coaches that get big paydays from playing Cuse. The past 10 years or so Cuse has done a lot more fall tournaments and gotten out there a bit more. They haven't had any of those headline Top 5 OOC matchups bc the scheduling is done years in advance and it just hasn't turned out that way. Indiana was #1 in the country for good stretches of last year, but they suck this year when Cuse played them. Not JB's fault. And the ACC scheduling this year is just weird with a down year for the conference and frontloading all their home games.

KenPom is usually pretty good, and yes the home/away disparity (i.e. hc advantage) is more statistically significant in college bball than any other major pro or college sport. I would quibble that @St Louis is a higher quality win the Duke, given how Duke was playing going into that game and other contextual factors that don't go into stats. Realistically, Cuse would not be favored over Kansas or Kentucky in March. Talent almost always wins out in bball (far more reliably than football or baseball), and those rosters dripping with lottery picks that will have their heads into the game playing defense in March are still the favs.

Cuse hasn't won more than 1 tourney because besides they've never had multiple 5-star talents on the roster. Their exits over the past 10 years (besides the Vermont fiasco) were almost always to Final Four-bound teams. So the fall scheduling has little to do with it.

Wait, Cuse has had more (if sightly) McDAAs than UConn the past ten years. Cuse and UConn have probably had very similary high school ranked players the past 15 years.

The problem with Cuse is simple, the deeper you go in March the more likely you are to play 1) a talented team with talented guards you can't press and b) very good coaches who know how to coach against the zone. That said, I do Ike the Cuse defense this yet more than most bc Fair and Grant are pretty good on the wings. Not weaknesses like Southerland was.

 

[Mots010]

So funny how when it comes to bball UConn is all about Championships but then on football the posters here are all "we went bluh bluh bluh from 2004-2011 or whatever and were the 3rd best team in the BE over that span!"

Anyway, for awhile in the 90's Cuse did play a really bad OOC schedule. part of this was JB insisting on doing favors to Lemoyne, Colgate, Cornell (and now Eastern Michigan) to support other schools/coaches that get big paydays from playing Cuse. The past 10 years or so Cuse has done a lot more fall tournaments and gotten out there a bit more. They haven't had any of those headline Top 5 OOC matchups bc the scheduling is done years in advance and it just hasn't turned out that way. Indiana was #1 in the country for good stretches of last year, but they suck this year when Cuse played them. Not JB's fault. And the ACC scheduling this year is just weird with a down year for the conference and frontloading all their home games.

KenPom is usually pretty good, and yes the home/away disparity (i.e. hc advantage) is more statistically significant in college bball than any other major pro or college sport. I would quibble that @St Louis is a higher quality win the Duke, given how Duke was playing going into that game and other contextual factors that don't go into stats. Realistically, Cuse would not be favored over Kansas or Kentucky in March. Talent almost always wins out in bball (far more reliably than football or baseball), and those rosters dripping with lottery picks that will have their heads into the game playing defense in March are still the favs.

Cuse hasn't won more than 1 tourney because besides they've never had multiple 5-star talents on the roster. Their exits over the past 10 years (besides the Vermont fiasco) were almost always to Final Four-bound teams. So the fall scheduling has little to do with it.

The biggest beef Uconn fans have with Cuse is that Uconn goes out and schedules Home and Homes with top programs, every single year. Name a top program. We've probably done a home and home with them in the last 15 years. This is in addition to all the preseason tournaments. Every year it seems like Syracuse plays a few preseason tourneys against good comp, then feasts on Lemoyne for 6 weeks. They never challenge themselves out of conference, on another teams court unless forced to in a conference challenge. As a fan base, some of our fondest memories are going out to places like Arizona, Mich St, UNC, Kansas, Indiana etc and challenging the best of the best, on their turf. I would actually be pissed if we scheduled our seasons like Syracuse, just from a fan perspective. One can argue the merits of this, but a lot here would argue its toughened up our team in many cases. Syracuse is having a great year so far, and that was a solid win on the road last night, and few would argue that here. We just always questioned the way they setup their schedule. Duke does the same thing, and we've busted their balls on it often.

 

[adbern7]

Wait, Cuse has had more (if sightly) McDAAs than UConn the past ten years. Cuse and UConn have probably had very similary high school ranked players the past 15 years.

The problem with Cuse is simple, the deeper you go in March the more likely you are to play 1) a talented team with talented guards you can't press and b) very good coaches who know how to coach against the zone. That said, I do Ike the Cuse defense this yet more than most bc Fair and Grant are pretty good on the wings. Not weaknesses like Southerland was.

The Cuse zone is one of the most overblown ESPN angles out there. What beats a zone? As you said, great ball handling guards, strong outside shooting, and bigs that can pass and rebound (exhibit A: McGary in the Cuse/Michigan Final Four game). Guess what - the same stuff that beats a man defense! Great players win games, that's it. Maybe the zone helps out here and there and adds 2-3 reg season wins.

If you go back to '03 (I didn't feel like scrolling down Wikipedia further back, but the same logic probably holds), almost every NCAA Champion was loaded with NBA talent. The '04 UConn team was stacked even if some of those guys, like Villaneuva, didn't end up being great pros. The exception was the Kemba team, but that team is the exception that proves the rule.

 

[James]

Nolan is a rich mans rakeem christmas

 

[Jerry1714]

The Cuse zone is one of the most overblown ESPN angles out there. What beats a zone? As you said, great ball handling guards, strong outside shooting, and bigs that can pass and rebound (exhibit A: McGary in the Cuse/Michigan Final Four game). Guess what - the same stuff that beats a man defense! Great players win games, that's it. Maybe the zone helps out here and there and adds 2-3 reg season wins.

If you go back to '03 (I didn't feel like scrolling down Wikipedia further back, but the same logic probably holds), almost every NCAA Champion was loaded with NBA talent. The '04 UConn team was stacked even if some of those guys, like Villaneuva, didn't end up being great pros. The exception was the Kemba team, but that team is the exception that proves the rule.

That Kemba team has had 2 lottery picks and a 2nd rounder and likely two other draft picks on it (Bazz and Scoe). That will be 5 total picks, that is NBA talent.

You make no sense, your excuses are fails, move on. Cuse is underachiever and has not accomplished near what UConn has. Go back to your board with your tail between your legs.

 

[adbern7]

You make no sense, your excuses are fails, move on. Cuse is underachiever and has not accomplished near what UConn has. Go back to your board with your tail between your legs.[/quote]

thanks for proving my point even more about how scheduling is irrelevant when it comes to crowning a champ. coming to this board is just too much fun to stop. it would be awesome for Cuse and UConn to meet at MSG this March. it would be like the Super Bowl times 10 for you losers. when you lose that game, you can all complain about how that was a home game for us too.

 

[caw]

The Cuse zone is one of the most overblown ESPN angles out there. What beats a zone? As you said, great ball handling guards, strong outside shooting, and bigs that can pass and rebound (exhibit A: McGary in the Cuse/Michigan Final Four game). Guess what - the same stuff that beats a man defense! Great players win games, that's it. Maybe the zone helps out here and there and adds 2-3 reg season wins.

If you go back to '03 (I didn't feel like scrolling down Wikipedia further back, but the same logic probably holds), almost every NCAA Champion was loaded with NBA talent. The '04 UConn team was stacked even if some of those guys, like Villaneuva, didn't end up being great pros. The exception was the Kemba team, but that team is the exception that proves the rule.

Well yes and no. The zone Cuse runs (with the payers they recruit for it) is better than most zones because of its length.

My point about good guards was that the only time I've seen Cuse go outside the zone recently is when an inferior team (like say Albany) is staying close. In those cases they switch to an aggressive press. That works against teams without good guards but you will rarely(never) see them try to press against high majors.

Cuse gets a good amount of highly ranked high schoolers. The proven is they don't always develop. Coleman and Christmas being the latest examples.

You mention the 2004 team as an example of NBA guys and I agree but some comes from the development of the players. Only Charlie was a McDAA and drafted. Okafor/Boone/Armstrong were not highly rated and even Gordon was only in the 40s or so. The Cuse system doesn't allow for a lot of growth to stardom.

 

[CTBasketball]

Defense wins championships. Therefore, the Syracuse zone sucks.

 

[Scot-e]

Yawn. Enjoy it while you can.

Calling us losers on our board and coming from a Quse fan (whose team has won nearly nothing compared to us)- just screams 15 year old or NY hick hayseed. I'll take our past - present and future anytime over Quse's. Go pump some gas or whatever it is you do.

 

[August_West]

It's really this simple.

Over past 20 years Syracuse has had more mcd AA's than uconn.

So who is loaded with talent?

In that that time uconn has sent a boatload if players to the NBA. Way more than exCuse.

Uconn has also won 3 NC's to exCuse's 1

Yet we are the losers?

To me the losers are the teams that obviously can't develop talent and win the big games.

If the above simple facts don't scream to you that Boeheim couldn't ever carry Calhouns jock strap, then I can't help you, except to point out where the short bus stops.

 

[Jerry1714]

You make no sense, your excuses are fails, move on. Cuse is underachiever and has not accomplished near what UConn has. Go back to your board with your tail between your legs.

thanks for proving my point even more about how scheduling is irrelevant when it comes to crowning a champ. coming to this board is just too much fun to stop. it would be awesome for Cuse and UConn to meet at MSG this March. it would be like the Super Bowl times 10 for you losers. when you lose that game, you can all complain about how that was a home game for us too.[/quote]
I could care less about your schedule, its JB's and the universities problem that he is afraid to leave the state until January, not mine or UConn fans, if he wants pad his resume fine I don't care.

I do care about the holier than thou stance of all Cuse fans and how you think your program is some great model of success, when in fact it has accomplished less than UConn on the court.

More NCAA Titles? UConn
Big East Tournament Titles? UConn
Big East Regular Season Titles? UConn

And you claim that your underachievement is due to lack of talent right? And NBA talent wins championships?

In 2013 you had 3 players drafted, 2 in 2011. There has been a steady stream, about 10 over the last decade, similar to UConn, just because your players are failures in the league (outside Melo and MCW) does not mean you have not had the talent. Why then have you not won a title in the last decade? Or how about the early 90s when you were producing a ton of good NBA talent why were you not winning anything then?

 

[adbern7]

Over past 20 years Syracuse has had more mcd AA's than uconn.

So who is loaded with talent?

In that that time uconn has sent a boatload if players to the NBA. Way more than exCuse.

Uconn has also won 3 NC's to exCuse's 1

Yet we are the losers?

To me the losers are the teams that obviously can't develop talent and win the big games.

If the above simple facts don't scream to you that Boeheim couldn't ever carry Calhouns jock strap, then I can't help you, except to point out where the short bus stops.[/quote]

My first post was about OOC scheduling, the point of the thread. Then someone responded by telling me to get lost. Then I got salty and called you losers. Hey it's an internet message board, it's all good.

In another 10 years those 3 championships of yours will start to look more and more like Harvard talking about all their football championships from prehistoric days.

 

[upstater]

A mid major team from the AAC? Like say Houston or SMU, Memphis? or even the Huskies. If UCONN played in a real league they would not be a 500 team. God next year you lose your legit contender in Louisville. UCONN better hope it gets an offer to join the ACC or in a few years the women will be able to beat the men.

5 AAC teams in the top 25. How many ACC? Also, UConn played Cuse last year. It worked out.

 

[upstater]

In another 10 years those 3 championships of yours will start to look more and more like Harvard talking about all their football championships from prehistoric days.

Or Helms championships or #1 tee-shirts.

Face it, we've replaced our legend well, while you guys are replacing your (underperforming) legend with a guy that will drop you into the dregs of the ACC.

 

[Jerry1714]

Over past 20 years Syracuse has had more mcd AA's than uconn.

So who is loaded with talent?

In that that time uconn has sent a boatload if players to the NBA. Way more than exCuse.

Uconn has also won 3 NC's to exCuse's 1

Yet we are the losers?

To me the losers are the teams that obviously can't develop talent and win the big games.

If the above simple facts don't scream to you that Boeheim couldn't ever carry Calhouns jock strap, then I can't help you, except to point out where the short bus stops.

My first post was about OOC scheduling, the point of the thread. Then someone responded by telling me to get lost. Then I got salty and called you losers. Hey it's an internet message board, it's all good.

In another 10 years those 3 championships of yours will start to look more and more like Harvard talking about all their football championships from prehistoric days.[/quote]

You know you have lost when your only comeback is "well in the future...".

It is pretty sad that two schools we have surpassed, PC and Cuse, are limited to pathetically grasping at straws as to why one day it will all be different..............

 

[upstater]

Well yes and no. The zone Cuse runs (with the payers they recruit for it) is better than most zones because of its length.

My point about good guards was that the only time I've seen Cuse go outside the zone recently is when an inferior team (like say Albany) is staying close. In those cases they switch to an aggressive press. That works against teams without good guards but you will rarely(never) see them try to press against high majors.

Cuse gets a good amount of highly ranked high schoolers. The proven is they don't always develop. Coleman and Christmas being the latest examples.

You mention the 2004 team as an example of NBA guys and I agree but some comes from the development of the players. Only Charlie was a McDAA and drafted. Okafor/Boone/Armstrong were not highly rated and even Gordon was only in the 40s or so. The Cuse system doesn't allow for a lot of growth to s om.

The guy is saying the 2011 team was an exception when it comes to the NBA--he's not even aware that after next year, Kemba, Lamb and Shabazz will be in the NBA. Hardly an exception at all.

Besides, Kevin Ollie is proving himself as a recruiter.

 

[adbern7]

5 AAC teams in the top 25. How many ACC? Also, UConn played Cuse last year. It worked out.

I wasn't even bringing conference affiliation into it. If you want to trumpet the AAC, have at it hoss. Yes, UConn played Cuse last year. I guess we have you to thank for "toughening" us with a challenging reg season game which prepared us to make the Final Four.

 

[adbern7]

My first post was about OOC scheduling, the point of the thread. Then someone responded by telling me to get lost. Then I got salty and called you losers. Hey it's an internet message board, it's all good.

In another 10 years those 3 championships of yours will start to look more and more like Harvard talking about all their football championships from prehistoric days.

You know you have lost when your only comeback is "well in the future...".

It is pretty sad that two schools we have surpassed, PC and Cuse, are limited to pathetically grasping at straws as to why one day it will all be different....[/quote]
You win dude. Let's only talk present. Cuse is coming off a Final Four season and is ranked #1 in the country. I don't even know what UConn is doing.

 

[upstater]

I wasn't even bringing conference affiliation into it. If you want to trumpet the AAC, have at it hoss. Yes, UConn played Cuse last year. I guess we have you to thank for "toughening" us with a challenging reg season game which prepared us to make the Final Four.

Next time you make the F4, try to win a championship.

Secondly, I wasn't even responding to you. Holy cow, can you read?

 

[upstater]

You know you have lost when your only comeback is "well in the future...".

It is pretty sad that two schools we have surpassed, PC and Cuse, are limited to pathetically grasping at straws as to why one day it will all be different....

You win dude. Let's only talk present. Cuse is coming off a Final Four season and is ranked #1 in the country. I don't even know what UConn is doing.[/quote]

UConn: 2 years after a national championship, and kicked Syracuse's rear end last they played.

 

[Mots010]

You know you have lost when your only comeback is "well in the future...".

It is pretty sad that two schools we have surpassed, PC and Cuse, are limited to pathetically grasping at straws as to why one day it will all be different....
You win dude. Let's only talk present. Cuse is coming off a Final Four season and is ranked #1 in the country. I don't even know what UConn is doing.

You don't know what Uconn is doing, but just spent the better part of your afternoon on a Uconn board. Congrats dude. #1 in February. You guys can hang a banner and make another t-shirt for it. Maybe you can sell pieces of the net for every game you play in Feb while #1. Let's get creative here.

 

[ZenConn]

Most regular season T-shirts printed. Syracuse.

Clearly the most important stat.

Most T-shirts donated to the kids in Africa.

 

[Jerry1714]

You know you have lost when your only comeback is "well in the future...".

It is pretty sad that two schools we have surpassed, PC and Cuse, are limited to pathetically grasping at straws as to why one day it will all be different....

You win dude. Let's only talk present. Cuse is coming off a Final Four season and is ranked #1 in the country. I don't even know what UConn is doing.[/quote]
You do not know what UConn is doing? But you have been here all day, obviously you do and you care about it a lot. Man, you are just not that bright. You had a decent come back then you threw it all away at the end...........

#1 in February congrats........... I know that is a huge deal up there. I hear you guys make sweet shirts to celebrate it too! Try being #1 at the end of the year, like UConn was in 2011, 2004, and 1999. It is nice to have little brothers and give them something to aspire to be.

 

[mauconnfan]

You know you have lost when your only comeback is "well in the future...".

It is pretty sad that two schools we have surpassed, PC and Cuse, are limited to pathetically grasping at straws as to why one day it will all be different....

You win dude. Let's only talk present. Cuse is coming off a Final Four season and is ranked #1 in the country.I don't even know what UConn is doing.[/quote]

That's because you're a dope and know little outside of Orangeville pal…….how did you do in the FF? Just wondering aren't you supposed to win that when you get there? Congrats on the moral victory…..did you buy last years "WE WERE TIED FOR 3RD" FF tee shirt? Funny stuff….

3 to 1 ! Live with it!

 

[Walker11]

Or Helms championships or #1 tee-shirts.

Face it, we've replaced our legend well, while you guys are replacing your (underperforming) legend with a guy that will drop you into the dregs of the ACC.

This is the best point. Uconn may be in the inferior conference, but we have successfully replaced our Hall of Fame coach with Kevin Ollie who has already established himself tactically, as a motivator and a recruiter and our future looks great regardless of conference affiliation.

Everyone says you want to be the guy after the guy when it comes to replacing a legend but UCONN has proven that wrong with KO. Me thinks Mike (?) Hopkins is not quite the answer. Good luck with that.