Kansas

[BapeKidd88]

It would suck being in the Big 12. Imagine having to play Baylor, Kansas, Iowa State, Ok State, West Virginia? And you’d have solid football and great baseball too. Plus $15-20 million. Give me $5 million and Seton Friggin’ Hall any day of the week, baby. Nothing says power conference like Seton Hall and Providence!

Exactly.

Look at this coaching fraternity.

Bill Self
Scott Drew
Kelvin Sampson
Bob Huggins
Jamie Dixon
Bruce Weber
Mike Boynton
Steve Prohm
Johnny Dawkins
Mark Pope
Wes Miller
Mark Adams

I'm thinking Bill Self is very pleased to see Sampson and Co. come in. He's pretty good friends with Sampson and helped him land Grimes.
Both Texas and OU just replaced their coaches anyway, so this group is as stable as can be.
Bill Self is only 58.
I've always thought that if Jim Calhoun would've had more mileage left on him, UConn may be looking at a P5 invite this round, and better football decisions (with fewer hoops distraction) would've allowed UConn to stay on the horse in the AAC. Calhoun would've loved the challenge of these coaches, who will likely be competing on Big Mondays.

 

[Fishy]

It will continue to be poached, they already lost 6 schools. When a conference no longer looks anything like it used to there is very little to keep it together. It's what happened to the Big East. AAC never even had a chance at surviving, all their schools of worth have already been picked off or bolted. Big 12 has some good enough schools still left that they will be picked off.

lol.

By who?

The valuable parts have been stripped off already.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Losing OU and Texas hurts KU Basketball the most. Playing Baylor, Houston, Iowa State and Cincy are nice, but not quite the same without Texas and OU. What happens to their football doesn't natter because they never cared much about it.

KU basketball will be fine. Losing OU and Texas for basketball was nothing. For football, it matters. Baylor is crushing it in basketball…as is Texas tech, Houston, Kansas, cincy. Big 12 is going to be just fine. AAC got decimated.

They do care about football, just not as much (but probably more than UConn fans). The big losses for football already happened years ago, Nebraska and Missouri. Those two were the closest rivals aside from K-State and filled the stadium. OU and UT not so much. Colorado was arguably a bigger loss than UT and OU. Ever since the SWC/Big 8 Merger, OU has looked to Texas. The other 7 mostly did not.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Money will go down, but not as much as some think.

Bowlsby said down by half, but I think they lose 2/3. Losing TX and perennial national title contender OK are huge blows. I know the schools they added are good, but they're not TX & OU. If football is 80% of the annual TV revenue, losing those 2 teams is a killer and takes away all the made for TV/must see games. I also wonder if they'll deal with ESPN given they likely blame ESPN for the situation. If they don't, that leaves Fox as the only known bidder. That assumes a streaming service like Amazon doesn't try to get involved.
I think they could get hammered and may have to take a shorter contract that allows them to re-establish the league.
I guess we'll see at some point.

 

[BapeKidd88]

Here's an old NCAA Tournament box score from 2005; when UConn (out of the old Big East) took on UCF (out of the ATLANTIC SUN).

Connecticut vs. UCF Box Score (Men), March 18, 2005 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Connecticut vs. UCF Box Score (Men), March 18, 2005

www.sports-reference.com

It's amazing to think that less than 20 years later, the old Big East died and along with it the "Big 6" designation for UConn. Consequently, UConn plays Butler, Creighton, and Xavier. OTOH, UCF is now a P5 and playing Kansas, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Houston, etc, every year in the BIG XII.

 

[Slasher]

What's the point of this thread?



The Big 12 was the #1 conference before and will be the #1 conference afterwards. And that's with some horrific UCF teams bringing down the average.

 

[HuskyHawk]

What's the point of this thread?



The Big 12 was the #1 conference before and will be the #1 conference afterwards. And that's with some horrific UCF teams bringing down the average.

A tweet I saw today suggested that the Pac 10 isn't happy, and that they feel the Big 12 came out of this in decent shape. So they are considering expansion to weaken it. If they wait and these new teams (Cinci is currently top 10 in football) show staying power or get better, then suddenly the Pac is at risk of losing it's eastern most teams.

 

[BuffaloHusky]

Colorado and Utah have no desire to look East. Football money is a drop in the bucket next to the research grants they are procuring from aligning with the other PAC-12 schools.

 

[hank970]

IMO the Big East is where we belong.

Absolutely. But to seal the deal, UConn needs to shed its renowned state-flagship status and become a Jesuit institution.

 

[bendm]

A tweet I saw today suggested that the Pac 10 isn't happy, and that they feel the Big 12 came out of this in decent shape. So they are considering expansion to weaken it. If they wait and these new teams (Cinci is currently top 10 in football) show staying power or get better, then suddenly the Pac is at risk of losing it's eastern most teams.

they had every opp to add TT and TCU. apparently they came close with those 2 but decided otherwise. if the PAC ever has schools poached it's not gonna be to a big12 w/o UT and OU

 

[bendm]

What's the point of this thread?



The Big 12 was the #1 conference before and will be the #1 conference afterwards. And that's with some horrific UCF teams bringing down the average.

how has the addition of UConn not moved the average at all?

 

[uchusky32]

how has the addition of UConn not moved the average at all?

When have we been better than average, lately?

 

[McLovin]

A tweet I saw today suggested that the Pac 10 isn't happy, and that they feel the Big 12 came out of this in decent shape. So they are considering expansion to weaken it. If they wait and these new teams (Cinci is currently top 10 in football) show staying power or get better, then suddenly the Pac is at risk of losing it's eastern most teams.

Wait, so Colorado and Utah left a Big 12 with OU and TX but if Cincy and UCF prove to be “good” they’ll consider rejoining?

Lmao whoever tweeted that must have been high. In no world does Cincy, Houston, UCF and BYU make that conference more appealing (competitively or financially) than it was with OU and TX.

National brands are what drive high dollar tv deals. Unless the “eastern” PAC teams prefer less money, playing in a conference with UCLA and USC will be more lucrative than a conference with Cincy and Houston.

 

[alphasigko]

Wait, so Colorado and Utah left a Big 12 with OU and TX but if Cincy and UCF prove to be “good” they’ll consider rejoining?

Lmao whoever tweeted that must have been high. In no world does Cincy, Houston, UCF and BYU make that conference more appealing (competitively or financially) than it was with OU and TX.

National brands are what drive high dollar tv deals. Unless the “eastern” PAC teams prefer less money, playing in a conference with UCLA and USC will be more lucrative than a conference with Cincy and Houston.

Actually, Utah left the Mountain West Conference to go to the PAC-12.

 

[shizzle787]

It wouldn’t surprise me if in a few years the Pac-12 adds Texas Tech (most popular brand in West Texas) and Kansas.

 

[MU in MKE]

how has the addition of UConn not moved the average at all?

UConn is already baked into the numbers under BE (since they joined last year already and are thus considered an "old" member) and thus already affected the average. Here is the adjust efficiency margin for each year. As you can see, the addition of UConn slightly lowered the average because of the rough Ollie years and the rebuild under Hurley (2016 the exception of course)

2014: 22.13
2015: 9.98
2016: 18.71
2017: 6.53
2018: -0.43
2019: 6.78
2020: 12.97
2021: 20.61

Average over time span: 12.16

 

[BapeKidd88]

Wait, so Colorado and Utah left a Big 12 with OU and TX but if Cincy and UCF prove to be “good” they’ll consider rejoining?

Lmao whoever tweeted that must have been high. In no world does Cincy, Houston, UCF and BYU make that conference more appealing (competitively or financially) than it was with OU and TX.

National brands are what drive high dollar tv deals. Unless the “eastern” PAC teams prefer less money, playing in a conference with UCLA and USC will be more lucrative than a conference with Cincy and Houston.

The Big 12 is better than the Pac 12 in basketball by a mile. (1/2 the final four teams this year, and the Champion)
In football, the Big 12 is better than the Pac 12 by less than a mile.

I don't know what the Pac 12 is thinking but the Big 12 is pleased with the expansion.

 

[John]

Absolutely. But to seal the deal, UConn needs to shed its renowned state-flagship status and become a Jesuit institution.

We did that as soon as we said yes.

 

[alphasigko]

UConn is already baked into the numbers under BE (since they joined last year already and are thus considered an "old" member) and thus already affected the average. Here is the adjust efficiency margin for each year. As you can see, the addition of UConn slightly lowered the average because of the rough Ollie years and the rebuild under Hurley (2016 the exception of course)

2014: 22.13
2015: 9.98
2016: 18.71
2017: 6.53
2018: -0.43
2019: 6.78
2020: 12.97
2021: 20.61

Average over time span: 12.16

Please define the "Adjust Efficiency Margin" and define what it means and how it is calculated

 

[Seamus84]

It will survive unless it is poached. So that's really up to the B1G, Pac and ACC (for WVU perhaps). Money will go down, but not as much as some think. Certainly much higher than the AAC or BigEast.

If the schools they’re bringing in are so valuable, why wasn’t the AAC earning higher media payouts?

 

[MU in MKE]

Please define the "Adjust Efficiency Margin" and define what it means and how it is calculated

Sorry, typo. Should have read as: "Adjusted Efficiency Margin"

Adjusted Efficiency Margin is the final numerical metric that Ken Pomeroy uses to rank the quality of a team. It combines the adjusted offense and defense numbers (points per possession adjusted by opponent), tempo, luck, and strength of schedule. See here: 2021 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

 

[HuskyHawk]

If the schools they’re bringing in are so valuable, why wasn’t the AAC earning higher media payouts?

The notion that schools are "valuable" and must "bring x value" is utter nonsense. What is valuable is matchups. Houston vs Baylor is far more valuable than Houston vs. East Carolina. The AAC stunk because it could rarely create any compelling matchups. The SEC is great in part because almost every game qualifies. Cinci vs West Virginia is going to be something people will watch in a way Cinci vs Temple isn't.

I am not saying UT and OU don't matter, they absolutely do because they drive those watchable matchups and have a lot of fans. But the Pac struggles to create good matchups that have appeal as well.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Wait, so Colorado and Utah left a Big 12 with OU and TX but if Cincy and UCF prove to be “good” they’ll consider rejoining?

Lmao whoever tweeted that must have been high. In no world does Cincy, Houston, UCF and BYU make that conference more appealing (competitively or financially) than it was with OU and TX.

National brands are what drive high dollar tv deals. Unless the “eastern” PAC teams prefer less money, playing in a conference with UCLA and USC will be more lucrative than a conference with Cincy and Houston.

That isn't the point at all. They expected it to fall apart, and would then pick from the ashes. The Pac is already in no better shape than the Big 12 was, it's USC and Oregon, and USC like Texas is underperforming. The games are almost all Pacific time and are less valuable nationally as a result. The Pac desperately needs to move east. The only reason it survived this long is that the west coast teams are too far to be poached. But Colorado could be poached, and Utah, and the Arizona schools.

Remember as well, teams left the Big 12 because they couldn't stand being in a league where Texas dominated.

 

[McLovin]

The notion that schools are "valuable" and must "bring x value" is utter nonsense. What is valuable is matchups. Houston vs Baylor is far more valuable than Houston vs. East Carolina. The AAC stunk because it could rarely create any compelling matchups. The SEC is great in part because almost every game qualifies. Cinci vs West Virginia is going to be something people will watch in a way Cinci vs Temple isn't.

I am not saying UT and OU don't matter, they absolutely do because they drive those watchable matchups and have a lot of fans. But the Pac struggles to create good matchups that have appeal as well.

UCF, Memphis, UConn, SMU, Cincy, Houston, Tulsa and Wichita State were all Top 25 ranked teams, each over multiple seasons during their tenure in the AAC. The top half of the league always had multiple ranked teams. But even for most of the top match-ups (i.e. Houston vs Cincy) the ESPN networks stuck on ESPNU at 9PM on a week night...

I agree that Houston vs Baylor is a better TV match-up than Houston vs ECU, but that doesn't matter. What matters is is that match-up now more marketable than Oklahoma vs Kentucky? Or Texas vs Florida? The networks are going to put their biggest brands on their best networks. That effects viewership. And that effects money.

The Big 12 will do better than the "old" AAC did, mostly because the bottom of the league are larger schools with larger fan bases. But they are going to see their TV contracts and primetime slots cut dramatically. If you want to get fired up for Iowa State vs UCF at 9PM on ESPNU, go for it. Because that's the future for the Big12.

 

[hank970]

It wouldn’t surprise me if in a few years the Pac-12 adds Texas Tech (most popular brand in West Texas) and Kansas.

Texas Tech is the only brand in west Texas, if indeed it's a brand. There's a lot of in-between out there on Llano Estacado (they dubbed it the Staked Plains because the place is so featureless it's almost impossible to navigate without some kind of man-made reference). The only hills are made by ants. Yeah, Lubbock. Even the name is boring.

 

[uconnfan68]

they had every opp to add TT and TCU. apparently they came close with those 2 but decided otherwise. if the PAC ever has schools poached it's not gonna be to a big12 w/o UT and OU

There were rumors for years of Texas going to the Pac-12, and/or to the B1G… and bringing someone with them… but never imagined OU, and not to the SEC.

 

[UCSouth]

Here's an old NCAA Tournament box score from 2005; when UConn (out of the old Big East) took on UCF (out of the ATLANTIC SUN).

Connecticut vs. UCF Box Score (Men), March 18, 2005 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Connecticut vs. UCF Box Score (Men), March 18, 2005

www.sports-reference.com

It's amazing to think that less than 20 years later, the old Big East died and along with it the "Big 6" designation for UConn. Consequently, UConn plays Butler, Creighton, and Xavier. OTOH, UCF is now a P5 and playing Kansas, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Houston, etc, every year in the BIG XII.

Congratulations...you have achieved Troll Status of the Highest Order

 

[BUConn10]

If you guys think Kansas is in a worse spot going forward in college athletics power structure going forward than we are then I have a nice bridge to sell you.

 

[HuskyHawk]

UCF, Memphis, UConn, SMU, Cincy, Houston, Tulsa and Wichita State were all Top 25 ranked teams, each over multiple seasons during their tenure in the AAC. The top half of the league always had multiple ranked teams. But even for most of the top match-ups (i.e. Houston vs Cincy) the ESPN networks stuck on ESPNU at 9PM on a week night...

I agree that Houston vs Baylor is a better TV match-up than Houston vs ECU, but that doesn't matter. What matters is is that match-up now more marketable than Oklahoma vs Kentucky? Or Texas vs Florida? The networks are going to put their biggest brands on their best networks. That effects viewership. And that effects money.

The Big 12 will do better than the "old" AAC did, mostly because the bottom of the league are larger schools with larger fan bases. But they are going to see their TV contracts and primetime slots cut dramatically. If you want to get fired up for Iowa State vs UCF at 9PM on ESPNU, go for it. Because that's the future for the Big12.

You are talking basketball. The Big12 is even better at that. I’m talking football. Houston playing Baylor, TT and TCU, plus OK State is better TV than their AAC games. Iowa State just played Iowa in a matchup of #9 vs #10 in football.

You’re delusional.

 

[Hoophound]

Kansas is definitely better off than us as of today. We need to restore football and we should find a spot in a good all sports conference down the road. If the university chooses not to fund football properly, we should probably just throw in the towel when that happens.