July 2020 UCONN recruiting thread

[Sluconn Husky]

Inefficient how? That usually means high turnovers & low shooting percentage.

She's a 44% shooter through her sophomore season, just 42% as a soph. That despite her athletic advantages.

Watching her with the US team last year, you could see a lot of her athletic talents, also her rawness and shot-selection issues. I noted both of those issues with Amari Deberry too.

 

[Scud49]

Bill Russell was a great basketball player (most championships) and is probably a better humanitarian. He is not The GOAT of basketball however. Wilt averaged more RPG than Bill (22.9 vs 22.5) and almost twice as many PPG (30.1 vs 15.1). Wilt also has an 80 game season on the books where he averaged 50.4 PPG.

Oh boy, another "Wilt had higher numbers so was better than Bill Russell" person. Amazing, this argument never seems to die. If sheer numbers were always the case, why, Wilt's teams should have always won, should they have not? After all, Wilt's teams averaged 112 PPG against everyone, the Celtics averaged about 110. Russell's Celtics won seven of eight playoff series against Chamberlain's Warriors, 76ers, and Lakers teams, and went 57–37 against them in the regular season and 29–20 in the playoffs. Russell's teams won all four seventh games against Chamberlain's—the combined margin was nine points. For sheer scoring, sure Wilt was THE force in the NBA. But the game entails far more than that, as we UCONN fans know. Bill Russell was cat quick, a leaper, and he could anticipate a shot, sweep in out of nowhere and block it. Or other times just his presence was enough to make an opposing player alter his shot....the guy was incredible. I know, I saw many of the Celtics games back in the 60's. Russell won 11 NBA titles in his career while Chamberlain won two. Chamberlain was named All-NBA first team seven times to Russell's three, but Russell was named league MVP—then selected by players and not the press—five times against Chamberlain's four. Hmmmmm...as selected by the ....players. Think about that. And when Sports Illustrated did their all-time NBA team for the first 50 years a number of years ago, who was the first team center? Yea, you bet, it was Bill Russell. Wilt was 2nd team. Hey, don't get me wrong, Wilt was an awesome player, the greatest physical force the NBA has ever seen.....we were just uber fortunate to have Bill Russell, probably the savviest player ever and the NBA's greatest winner - he made everyone far better, just as Larry Bird did years later for the Celtics.

 

[CocoHusky]

If sheer numbers were always the case, why, Wilt's teams should have always won, should they have not?

No. Basketball is a team sport the best team usually wins. Using your logic the team that had the highest scorer would always win. GOAT is an individual distinction therefore it is perfectly appropriate to use "individual" stats to determine. KC Jones won more championships than Wilt and Robert Horry won more championships than Kobe.

 

[BobbyJ]

Barker has been very inefficient throughout her two years of high school. Perhaps that's the result of youth and inexperience that will improve in the future. She certainly is athletic and talented.

Agree about the youth and inexperience. Just have to hope she gets some good coaching and direction to get her through that. But she looked pretty efficient in this video didn’t she?

 

[Carnac]

Wow. I don't see a weakness here. The skills, strength, and body control are elite for a college player. With the different skill set, she'd be a perfect complement to Brady's power game and IMO would be one of the very top wings in the country as a freshman.

I like players that play with a sense of urgency which she appears to do. They seldom take plays off, and they're always around the ball.

 

[Crossover]

Point taken. I'll try to get us back on track. I have a new crush which is really an old crush. CD visited her in Florida at the conclusion of her Freshman year before USA basketball trials. She made the U16 team, was spectacular in the tryouts but didn't show much in the games. Love the defensive intensity with which she plays. A very complete offensive and defensive tool kit, a great motor, and a "college ready frame" that would allow her to play inside and the skills to play on the perimeter.

Thanks! I had just about given up on this thread. Yes, great intensity, motor, and all around physical game. I also like the fact that she enjoys passing the ball, and takes delight when one of her teammates make a play.

 

[Scud49]

No. Basketball is a team sport the best team usually wins. Using your logic the team that had the highest scorer would always win. GOAT is an individual distinction therefore it is perfectly appropriate to use "individual" stats to determine. KC Jones won more championships than Wilt and Robert Horry won more championships than Kobe.

No, you were inferring the guy with the bigger numbers was the better player - not the case at all. Basketball is a TEAM game all the way, and Bill Russell made his team much better with his contributions than Wilt did with his - hence the outcomes as we have witnessed.

 

[CocoHusky]

No, you were inferring the guy with the bigger numbers was the better player - not the case at all. Basketball is a TEAM game all the way, and Bill Russell made his team much better with his contributions than Wilt did with his - hence the outcomes as we have witnessed.

No. I wasn't inferring, I was stating it. Those aren't just bigger numbers they are superior numbers=2X more points over the course of a career. "Make your teammates better is not quantifiable" for comparison purposes. Bill had better teammates and thus the better team and thus more championships. Could Bill Russell have put up Wilt's numbers playing on Sixers? The NBA record book leads me to believe that not only couldn't Bill put up those numbers NOBODY could. NOBODY has since Wilt left the game almost 5 decades ago. I bet if you put Wilt on those Celtics teams and the Celtics would still win those Championships.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Agree about the youth and inexperience. Just have to hope she gets some good coaching and direction to get her through that. But she looked pretty efficient in this video didn’t she?

I believe she shot 100% in the video

 

[CocoHusky]

She's a 44% shooter through her sophomore season, just 42% as a soph. That despite her athletic advantages.
Watching her with the US team last year, you could see a lot of her athletic talents, also her rawness and shot-selection issues. I noted both of those issues with Amari Deberry too.

The shot mechanics are pretty solid high elevation and release follow through. At the basket she show she can finish with either hand. I would attribute such ta low percentage mostly to poor shot selection. This is correctable by better coaching and playing against a higher level of competition where she can't rely on just her athleticism. She just a sophomore and can be taught shot selection. The elements she bringing to the table athleticism, body control and motor can't be as easily taught.

 

[Scud49]

No. I wasn't inferring, I was stating it. Those aren't just bigger numbers they are superior numbers=2X more points over the course of a career. "Make your teammates better is not quantifiable" for comparison purposes. Bill had better teammates and thus the better team and thus more championships. Could Bill Russell have put up Wilt's numbers playing on Sixers? The NBA record book leads me to believe that not only couldn't Bill put up those numbers NOBODY could. NOBODY has since Wilt left the game almost 5 decades ago. I bet if you put Wilt on those Celtics teams and the Celtics would still win those Championships.

And....who cares if it was 2x 3x, or 4x higher?? Championships count, not much else. Wilt was surrounded by great talent - look at those 76er teams - Hal Grier, Luke Jackson, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker etc holy cow. The level of offensive talent the 6ers had was immense - but did they have the defensive counterbalance like a Bill Russell? No. With a Bill Russell at center I expect they would have won a whole bunch more. Now Elgin Baylor and Jerry West with the Lakers - both of those guys were dying to beat the Celtics- their motivation was super high. Did Wilt make them better? I don't think so. If Wilt was on those Celtic teams, they absolutely would not have won as many. Wilt's primary focus was on offense, Bill focused on the TEAM needs. Massive difference in philosophies. Wilt had the equivalent in basketball talent as compared to the Bill and his Celtic teammates - but Russ's overall approach and focus to the game was far, far, better.

 

[Littlemin]

No. I wasn't inferring, I was stating it. Those aren't just bigger numbers they are superior numbers=2X more points over the course of a career. "Make your teammates better is not quantifiable" for comparison purposes. Bill had better teammates and thus the better team and thus more championships. Could Bill Russell have put up Wilt's numbers playing on Sixers? The NBA record book leads me to believe that not only couldn't Bill put up those numbers NOBODY could. NOBODY has since Wilt left the game almost 5 decades ago. I bet if you put Wilt on those Celtics teams and the Celtics would still win those Championships.

I disagree about team talent, Wilt played with GREAT players and didn’t win, both with the Sixers and the Lakers, the most glaring example being the Knicks in ‘69; even after Reed got injured Wilt found a way to lose while playing with West and Baylor, two of the greatest ever. If you judge by stats, there is no argument, it is Wilt; if winning is your thing, there is also no debate, it is Russell.

 

[Mdoggie]

I got a strange feeling about this one. I think she is gonna surprise many and push others for PT. I’m going out on a limb and calling her our ringer! Love her motor. Hoping she is “nurse” like in her work ethic.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Caroline is a great get. Maybe this has posted before, but it is quite the show of what she brings. New England Class AA Championship.

 

[CocoHusky]

And....who cares if it was 2x 3x, or 4x higher?? Championships count, not much else. Wilt was surrounded by great talent - look at those 76er teams - Hal Grier, Luke Jackson, Billy Cunningham, Chet Walker etc holy cow. The level of offensive talent the 6ers had was immense - but did they have the defensive counterbalance like a Bill Russell? No. With a Bill Russell at center I expect they would have won a whole bunch more. Now Elgin Baylor and Jerry West with the Lakers - both of those guys were dying to beat the Celtics- their motivation was super high. Did Wilt make them better? I don't think so. If Wilt was on those Celtic teams, they absolutely would not have won as many. Wilt's primary focus was on offense, Bill focused on the TEAM needs. Massive difference in philosophies. Wilt had the equivalent in basketball talent as compared to the Bill and his Celtic teammates - but Russ's overall approach and focus to the game was far, far, better.

I care. The bolded part is a severe diss of Red. Red found a way to get the most out of Bill and ALL the other Celtics. Red would have found a way to get the best out of Wilt who was a better individual talent. It is laughable that you don't think Wilt made his teammates better. Once again, GOAT is an individual distinction. Championships is a team distinction. It is clear why you would want throw out the individual stats and that is because Bill decisively loses the race in almost every significant offensive and defensive statistical category. They both played roughly 1000 games in the NBA you don't have to be a mathematician to grasp the concept of statistical significance. Wilt's individual numbers are statistically & significantly better than Bill's. If only championships count then KC Jones ( 8 Championships) and Robert Horry (7 Championships) would be in the GOAT conversation-but they are not.

 

[ABCDFE]

Bill Russell was a great basketball player (most championships) and is probably a better humanitarian. He is not The GOAT of basketball however. Wilt averaged more RPG than Bill (22.9 vs 22.5) and almost twice as many PPG (30.1 vs 15.1). Wilt also has an 80 game season on the books where he averaged 50.4 PPG.

Is there like a WAR statistic for basketball, where defense and everything is counted? It would be good to line a stat like that between the two.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Is there like a WAR statistic for basketball, where defense and everything is counted? It would be good to line a stat like that between the two.

The closest thing is probably Win Shares. Like with WAR, longevity helps, but here is a list. Right column is NBA only.

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the complete list of NBA & ABACareer Leaders and Records for and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[CocoHusky]

If you judge by stats, there is no argument, it is Wilt; if winning is your thing, there is also no debate, it is Russell.

I do judge by individual stats to determine the GOAT. If i judged by "winning" then Brianna Pulito>Maya Moore.

 

[Scud49]

I care. The bolded part is a severe diss of Red. Red found a way to get the most out of Bill and ALL the other Celtics. Red would have found a way to get the best out of Wilt who was a better individual talent. It is laughable that you don't think Wilt made his teammates better. Once again, GOAT is an individual distinction. Championships is a team distinction. It is clear why you would want throw out the individual stats and that is because Bill decisively loses the race in almost every significant offensive and defensive statistical category. They both played roughly 1000 games in the NBA you don't have to be a mathematician to grasp the concept of statistical significance. Wilt's individual numbers are statistically & significantly better than Bill's. If only championships count then KC Jones ( 8 Championships) and Robert Horry (7 Championships) would be in the GOAT conversation-but they are not.

It is laughable that you don't see that Wilt looked primarily to his offense first - no matter who the coach was. It's possible Red could have altered his game to make it more team orientated. Red was the very best of all time. Russ's first thoughts were to the TEAM, and what do I have to do to make US win. The same certainly cannot be said about Wilt.

I'll leave it with this - the basketball writers for Sports Illustrated and the other major publications, the guys who saw the games day in, day out, week in, week out - they knew who was the most valued player in the league was. That's why he was the starting first team center on the First 50 team. Ditto for the players, they felt the same way. You can have your PPG etc etc - I'll take team play and team wins any day of the week. Wilt was tremendous, a great talent and a good person, I'm just glad we had Russ - he was the very best at that position.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't know were things stand with Jillian and UCONN- i would rather doubt it at this point. I say this because her social media was touting/celebrating a recent offer from Georgetown. A few month back I also wrote that she had grown and put on some muscle and was looking more like a legit college 5 vs a skinny perimeter oriented post she was as a HS junior and sophomore. Mississippi State and Georgia are the schools most linked to her.

I found this article and quote interesting
"While most prospects will sign in the early signing period in the winter, don’t count Hollingshead among that group."

Consensus top-30 Jillian Hollingshead taking her time

Consensus top-30 Jillian Hollingshead taking her time

247sports.com

 

[CocoHusky]

It is laughable that you don't see that Wilt looked primarily to his offense first - no matter who the coach was. It's possible Red could have altered his game to make it more team orientated. Red was the very best of all time. Russ's first thoughts were to the TEAM, and what do I have to do to make US win. The same certainly cannot be said about Wilt.

I'll leave it with this - the basketball writers for Sports Illustrated and the other major publications, the guys who saw the games day in, day out, week in, week out - they knew who was the most valued player in the league was. That's why he was the starting first team center on the First 50 team. Ditto for the players, they felt the same way. You can have your PPG etc etc - I'll take team play and team wins any day of the week. Wilt was tremendous, a great talent and a good person, I'm just glad we had Russ - he was the very best at that position.

It would seem that Bill disagrees with you. Sports illustrated says clearly you don't have a subscription and don't know what you are talking about. They have consistently had Wilt ranked ahead of Bill in every ranking they ever did.

 

[HopJim]

No. I wasn't inferring, I was stating it. Those aren't just bigger numbers they are superior numbers=2X more points over the course of a career. "Make your teammates better is not quantifiable" for comparison purposes. Bill had better teammates and thus the better team and thus more championships. Could Bill Russell have put up Wilt's numbers playing on Sixers? The NBA record book leads me to believe that not only couldn't Bill put up those numbers NOBODY could. NOBODY has since Wilt left the game almost 5 decades ago. I bet if you put Wilt on those Celtics teams and the Celtics would still win those Championships.

Sorry. Lived in Phila during the Wilt years and we all knew Russell was the clutch, better player if defined by wins. Rarely has the player with best stats won championships.

 

[Geew1992]

I don't know were things stand with Jillian and UCONN- i would rather doubt it at this point. I say this because her social media was touting/celebrating a recent offer from Georgetown. A few month back I also wrote that she had grown and put on some muscle and was looking more like a legit college 5 vs a skinny perimeter oriented post she was as a HS junior and sophomore. Mississippi State and Georgia are the schools most linked to her.

I found this article and quote interesting
"While most prospects will sign in the early signing period in the winter, don’t count Hollingshead among that group."

Consensus top-30 Jillian Hollingshead taking her time

Consensus top-30 Jillian Hollingshead taking her time

247sports.com

Coach J seems to think since she follows him, it means she’s interested in Tennessee

 

[JonathanXIV]

Sorry. Lived in Phila during the Wilt years and we all knew Russell was the clutch, better player if defined by wins. Rarely has the player with best stats won championships.

Michael Jordan?

 

[diggerfoot]

The closest thing is probably Win Shares. Like with WAR, longevity helps, but here is a list. Right column is NBA only.

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the complete list of NBA & ABACareer Leaders and Records for and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

The list produced results I would not have expected, though I realize that longevity affects it. That prompted me to look into how it was calculated. My one argument with the formula is it appears to account for how a player's production made a team better, but not necessarily how a player might make other players' production better. Players like Taurasi or Bird (man or woman) might get shortchanged by this.

One purely anecdotal account of this would be the time Magic Johnson, the point guard for the Lakers, had to take over playing center because Abdul-Jabbar was hurt. They still won with Magic an impressive factor in that win. The Lakers probably would have found it much harder to win that same playoff game if Magic was hurt instead of Jabbar.

My own approach, which I leave for anyone else to adopt (lol), would be to normalize the +/- for a player for each season, multiply by percentage of wins for that season, then add and average the sums. In theory this calculates relative importance (through normalization) of the player's presence (vs. production) on the team, factoring in as well how well that team has done.