John A: Team needs a vocal leader

[John Fryer]

Geno quote from the CoC write-up on the Uconn website. Haven't seen this elsewhere.

"It's an ongoing process. Three days ago we were beating the No; 1 team in the county with four minutes left in the game," Huskies coach Geno Auriemma said. "Now we're trying to find out how we get 11 new players in here because none of them are motivated."

Could someone please explain this comment by coach A:

"Now we're trying to find out how we get 11 new players in here because none of them are motivated."

Was that comment intended to be motivational?

IMO, it sounded very hurtful to the entire team.

Peace,

John Fryer

 

[JS]

Could someone please explain this comment by coach A:

"Now we're trying to find out how we get 11 new players in here because none of them are motivated."

Was that comment intended to be motivational?

IMO, it sounded very hurtful to the entire team.

Peace,

John Fryer

Typical Geno sarcasm. In part he's satirizing overreactions (probably including his own) to the most recent game. One minute we're near world beaters (leading at the #1 team's place with four min. left), the next (C of C game) we're unmotivated bums who should all get the boot.

But he's also, as usual, pushing for more consistency. Human nature is such that it's impossible for players to have the same motivation for Charleston that they had for Baylor. But pursuit of impossible perfection is the Geno way. You aren't going to achieve it because it's, well, impossible. But you'll achieve more than anybody else.

He certainly didn't mean the bolded comment seriously.

 

[pap49cba]

Typical Geno sarcasm. In part he's satirizing overreactions (probably including his own) to the most recent game. One minute we're near world beaters (leading at the #1 team's place with four min. left), the next (C of C game) we're unmotivated bums who should all get the boot.

But he's also, as usual, pushing for more consistency. Human nature is such that it's impossible for players to have the same motivation for Charleston that they had for Baylor. But pursuit of impossible perfection is the Geno way. You aren't going to achieve it because it's, well, impossible. But you'll achieve more than anybody else.

He certainly didn't mean the bolded comment seriously.

Totally agree. Just Geno dripping sarcasm in the wake of a listless performance. He is cranking up the mind-games control knob in anticipation of the BE season.

 

[attaboy]

The press wants a comment. They got one. It is doubtful to me that even the coaches prepared for this game like they did for Baylor. It is hard to come down from the mountain and head right back up. As a coach, you just don't want to believe that your guys are capable of laying an egg. Thus a comment rooted in the moment of frustration.

 

[Icebear]

Typical Geno sarcasm. In part he's satirizing overreactions (probably including his own) to the most recent game. One minute we're near world beaters (leading at the #1 team's place with four min. left), the next (C of C game) we're unmotivated bums who should all get the boot.

But he's also, as usual, pushing for more consistency. Human nature is such that it's impossible for players to have the same motivation for Charleston that they had for Baylor. But pursuit of impossible perfection is the Geno way. You aren't going to achieve it because it's, well, impossible. But you'll achieve more than anybody else.

He certainly didn't mean the bolded comment seriously.

Absolutely. Reading Geno is always a perilous activity since he conveys so much by tone of voice.

 

[DaddyChoc]

I wouldn't characterize it as calling someone out because nobody is identified. However, it will certainly generate fan speculation as to who the player(s) are that "aren't getting it".

I haven't read about anything like this since Charde Houston.

Heather comes close but since she plays good D against BG she gets a pass...

 

[vtcwbuff]

so are you going to clarify or should I continue to assume Charde was "purposefully resisting"?

Again we get into interpretation of what was said, or in this case written. Thomas wrote "Too often Charde doesn't buy into what coach is saying, so she thinks he is out to get her". I can see where that might lead some to think she was resisting and that it was purposeful. I don't know squat about what happened with Houston and I won't pretend to, but I think Thomas' next sentence is revealing. "On the other hand, when coach gets on Maya, she uses it as motivation"

However, that's on her and not the coach. IMO it is not the coach's job to adapt his methods to a player, especially an incoming freshman. Auriemma has always tweaked his coaching style as a player matured. Unfortunately if there was ever a chance to do so with Houston it was much too late. "As a senior Charde still doesn't understand that coach challenges us for good reasons" At least in Thomas' opinion - Houston never got "it".

 

[Icebear]

Again we get into interpretation of what was said, or in this case written. Thomas wrote "Too often Charde doesn't buy into what coach is saying, so she thinks he is out to get her". I can see where that might lead some to think she was resisting and that it was purposeful. I don't know squat about what happened with Houston and I won't pretend to, but I think Thomas' next sentence is revealing. "On the other hand, when coach gets on Maya, she uses it as motivation"

However, that's on her and not the coach. IMO it is not the coach's job to adapt his methods to a player, especially an incoming freshman. Auriemma has always tweaked his coaching style as a player matured. Unfortunately if there was ever a chance to do so with Houston it was much too late. "As a senior Charde still doesn't understand that coach challenges us for good reasons" At least in Thomas' opinion - Houston never got "it".

vtc, page and chapter?

If what you post is an accurate quote and I have no reason to believe it isn't it strongly calls Cafe's choice of words into question unless he is speaking of different material and makes JS analysis based on less than solid footing.

What you posted is closer to material I remember.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Again we get into interpretation of what was said, or in this case written. Thomas wrote "Too often Charde doesn't buy into what coach is saying, so she thinks he is out to get her". I can see where that might lead some to think she was resisting and that it was purposeful. I don't know squat about what happened with Houston and I won't pretend to, but I think Thomas' next sentence is revealing. "On the other hand, when coach gets on Maya, she uses it as motivation"

However, that's on her and not the coach. IMO it is not the coach's job to adapt his methods to a player, especially an incoming freshman. Auriemma has always tweaked his coaching style as a player matured. Unfortunately if there was ever a chance to do so with Houston it was much too late. "As a senior Charde still doesn't understand that coach challenges us for good reasons" At least in Thomas' opinion - Houston never got "it".

so does this explain "purposefully resisting"... I mean if Geno told Charde to dribble left and hand it off to Ketia BUT she was dribbling right and handing off to Renee and then giggled about it I would agree she was "purposefully resisting".

If Geno was telling her to set a pick at the top of the key then roll into the paint, look for the pass then kick it out to Renee for the open 3.... but Charde could never get it because she thought she was open and twirl to the basket and get called for the charge. I wouldnt call that "purposefully resisting"... she would be thinking at the time her option looked better IMO.

I could live with "didnt get it" before I would agree on "purposefully resisting"

BTW JS Im for the player MOST of the time because as adults we think as 60yr old educated adults and not 19yr olds... so its woulda coulda shoulda etc. If we never went thru what they went thru at 18 we have no clue on how it is. If you did but it was in the 60's and you want to compare it to 2007 thats not fair to the child.
we have no clue on their upbringing, sexual issues, financial needs, family illnesses etc. All we know is that Charde didnt bring a championship home to Storrs and thats a shame IMO

thats sort of why I defend the player, any player... EDD, AStrother, McCormick, Samarie or EPip

 

[vtcwbuff]

The quote is at the top of page 151.

DaddyChoc - I don't know if you read Thomas' book but there are a few paragraphs describing an off court meeting between team captains Mel Thomas, Renee Montgomery with Charde Houston. According to Thomas they went to Houston to offer their help. After asking several questions about how she was doing or if anything were wrong - and not getting any response, Thomas admits she sort of lost it. "She just sat there and stared at me. I wanted to punch her." We never figured out what was wrong with her. So it seems that the fans that were puzzled by Houston's behavior were not alone.

In any case this thread has wandered a long way from the original leadership topic. My own personal feeling is that there may not be a floor leader (at least how I think of one) on the team.

I can still see diminuative Montgomery all up in Tina Charles' grill - and Charles paying attention to her. That last part is the leadership bit.

 

[RadyLady]

Insight...Walking in another's shoes...I really like JS' post about Charde, because it offers well thought out insight on what possibly may have gone on with Charde during her tenure at UConn. For me the reader and fan, I think that it also illustrates why the UConn program is for some players, but not for others. There is no ill intent against Charde in this last sentence at all. It just is what it is.

I would like to take a crack at Caroline's predicament, from a personal experience of my own.

Last year around this time, I lost my voice completely. I was unable to utter any sound whatsoever - if I needed to give a cabbie instructions, I had to write them down (and hope that the driver could read english), I couldn't use the telephone, and as it was during that bad stretch of weather in NYC, if I fell down and got hurt, I could not call out for help. Let me add here that I am a professional singer. Needless to say, I was unable to sing and lost quite a bit of work, not to mention that singing was something I did all the time, where ever I went. It is as much a part of my existance as breathing.

Four weeks after the onset of this illness, I was able to make myself understood, but my voice as I knew it was still a long way from returning. In fact, I didn't start to speak in a semi-normal voice until about late March, and as for singing, to this day I am still not fully recovered. I started taking singing jobs in early fall, but lost my voice again during Yom Kippur services for which I was hired to sing. My voice is not the same, I do not have the same control oover it or confidence I once had for when it feels like it, the voice just quits on me.

I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating it is to know how to sing properly and with emotion and expression, but when I try, the voice does not cooperate. I have to be careful and cautious when I sing, and I cannot take risks and let 'er rip as I once did. I am limited by this problem.

I feel like a part of me is missing, and I struggle with this every day. Technically I am cured, healthy and able, yet I know that I do not enjoy the facility I once posessed. It is a loss.

I look at Caroline's struggles and I see myself. Part of some of my jobs as a singer is to be a leader of a section or group. I know that from personal experience the difficulty if leading when internally struggling/dealing with technical issues. This makes it easier to understand her situation and sympathize.

When she was recovering, it was easy to lead, but now that she, too must perform her tasks on the floor , it may be asking quite a lot to do both.

Caroline would not accept my sympathy because of who she is so I won't offer it up, yet she certainly has my understanding.

 

[DaddyChoc]

The quote is at the top of page 151.

DaddyChoc - I don't know if you read Thomas' book but there are a few paragraphs describing an off court meeting between team captains Mel Thomas, Renee Montgomery with Charde Houston. According to Thomas they went to Houston to offer their help. After asking several questions about how she was doing or if anything were wrong - and not getting any response, Thomas admits she sort of lost it. "She just sat there and stared at me. I wanted to punch her." We never figured out what was wrong with her. So it seems that the fans that were puzzled by Houston's behavior were not alone.

In any case this thread has wandered a long way from the original leadership topic. My own personal feeling is that there may not be a floor leader (at least how I think of one) on the team.

I can still see diminuative Montgomery all up in Tina Charles' grill - and Charles paying attention to her. That last part is the leadership bit.

Renee was an awesome leader... I wonder if Bria has atleast some of her leadership qualities. Bria could definitely lead by exampple on the court, she fearless!

 

[vtcwbuff]

Renee was an awesome leader... I wonder if Bria has atleast some of her leadership qualities. Bria could definitely lead by exampple on the court, she fearless!

I think that of the current players, Hartley is the one most likely to mature into a leadership role.

 

[Icebear]

This is an excellent analysis!

If I may, I would just like to attempt a small addition:

In a previous post, I reacted strongly to a poster's suggestion that Coach A might attempt to change Moriah's game. And I referenced the horrible experience we all had had to live through when he had tried to change Charde's game.

Most of us are able and willing to accept change, if it comes is small doses. And if it doesn't threaten
things that we consider to be our core and fundamental values.

I would argue that, for highly successful players, their game and their skill sets are essential elements of their core and fundamental values.

For some, any attempt to change their skill sets maybe viewed as an attempt to change and to de-value them.

After all, Charde had been highly recruited because of her skill sets. It most have come as an unexpected and unwelcome surprise for her to be told that those skill sets were inadequate and/or unwanted.

These are, of course, just my opinions.

Peace,

John Fryer

Moriah's experience will be completely different because she is an entirely different person than Charde was with all of the different experiences to shape it.

JS 's long post and its postulations demonstrate the impact of two of a number of possibilities of understanding the use of the term "purposeful" that could completely alter the understanding of "purposefully resisting." It is, also, highly likely as in the episode vtc posted that Charde may well have been completely obtuse to the situation as Renee and Mel were to her thoughts. The passage is, also, what leads me to think the resistance was not likely a purposeful resisting at all but was rather a unconscious event.

 

[vtcwbuff]

John - IMO it is the coaches primary job to change a high school players game when they arrive at UConn. It's part of preparing the player for big time bball. How much it needs changing is up to the coach. On balance I would suggest that his overwhelming success in player development supports that.

I think that it is a mistake to characterize Houston's problems that way. It wasn't so much changing her game but the demands and the criticism. She was unable to respond the same way as players like Charles, Lobo, Bird Cash and so many others. They grew from it, Houston withdrew. Or maybe she was just "a jerk that didn't care about the team" as Thomas wondered.

 

[msf22b]

A most interesting thread, going in many directions

1. As a teacher and a conductor I were always taught the if things go askew, its the fault of the adult in charge. Don't
blame the kids, don't blame the sidemen in the orchestra, the dancers on stage, the singers et al if they don't follow you.
Blame yourself! I always thought that Charde was Geno's greatest failure...his responsibility.

2. At the beginning of the season there was a lot of talk of Caroline and loosey-goosey Stef leading the team. It's still
possible though each is going through their own little moments of doubt at the moment. I certainly remember Geno
instructing Steff not to shoot uncontested layups...it'll run up the score. Maybe a mistake.

3. Sometimes, a team with a lot of great players doesn't jell. It must make a coach tear their hair out. Look at the Tennessee

 

[msf22b]

A most interesting thread, going in many directions.

When I was trying to learn conducting, a wise man told me that if things go askew its the fault of the adult in charge, not the sidemen, not the singers who never follow a conductor, not the dancers, who go whichever way they please, its your fault stupid! When I started teaching, I heard the same refrain....I always thought that Charde was one of Geno's great failures.

Remember the pre and early season. It was assumed the Caroline and that surprise loosey-goosey big girl would lead the team. Well, they found some roadblocks and it hasn't materialized; still could! Would be good. I distinctly remember Geno admonishing Steff for taking uncontested layups early. Maybe that was a mistake too.

I agree with those who in this post-Maya year cannot quite sense the team's identity and note that the team probably feeld the same way. Who's identity is clear? Kelly, KLM (mostly) Bria, the rest: not so much although Heather is getting close.

Team leadership is a big question mark. Remember item one. If no one shows up naturally, then the brain-trust has to make that decision (it seems like they already have).

Sometimes a team with lots of good players just doesn't come together. We all belittle Pat, but it could happen here as well, even next year.

And lastly and most controversially: It is not impossible that the many outside pressures on Geno|+ of course the absence of a Miss Moore, could have affected the team, slightly negatively (at least in the early going)? This is pure conjecture and not intended to start a food-fight.

 

[Cafe Poliziano]

It is to me beyond obvious that Charde purposefully resisted Geno's promptings, Mel as stated in her book wanted to punch her over the FACT that Charde would not buy into Geno's scheme. That this is even being debated is absurd to me, The announcers at the games stated as much, Mel stated this in her book, hell even my wife who is a rabid fan says as much. If you want to play the Schrodenger's(sp) cat game with this fine it is after all your prerogative. Me I'm moving on and am going to thoroughly enjoy this wonderful single malt scotch that is just in front of me.

Happy New Year to you and your loved ones, may the new year shine brightly upon you.

GO UCONN !!!!!!!

 

[Icebear]

It is to me beyond obvious that Charde purposefully resisted Geno's promptings, Mel as stated in her book wanted to punch her over the FACT that Charde would not buy into Geno's scheme. That this is even being debated is absurd to me, The announcers at the games stated as much, Mel stated this in her book, hell even my wife who is a rabid fan says as much. If you want to play the Schrodenger's(sp) cat game with this fine it is after all your prerogative. Me I'm moving on and am going to thoroughly enjoy this wonderful single malt scotch that is just in front of me.

Happy New Year to you and your loved ones, may the new year shine brightly upon you.

GO UCONN !!!!!!!

Are you speaking of the section VTC cited on page 151?

 

[blackbird]

"purposefully resisted"

I do not think it means, what you think it means.

 

[vtcwbuff]

"Mel as stated in her book wanted to punch her over the FACT that Charde would not buy into Geno's scheme."

Cafe - I gotta' call BS on this one. You are 100% wrong. Thomas never wrote that she wanted to punch Houston because she (Houston) would not "buy into Geno's scheme" and that is FACT not your misread.
If what I posted is beyond your comprehension then read the book. Thomas said she wanted to punch Houston because she (Houston) was not responding to the help they (Thomas and Montgomery) were offering. That particular comment was very clear and I don't see how it could be misinterpreted. Scotch maybe?

 

[vtcwbuff]

Msf22b - The dynamic between a high level coach and their players is way too complex to pass off a failure as attibutable to the adult. It's not grade school and it's not tee ball. Houston is in no way Auriemma's fault. Probably his greatest failure, but not his responsibility. That rests entirely on a person who for whatever reason was not willing or able to understand.

"Gee coach, I don't want to play your way and sometimes I get too tired doing all that running that the other players do. I'm a star and I deserve a break."

 

[DaddyChoc]

"Mel as stated in her book wanted to punch her over the FACT that Charde would not buy into Geno's scheme."

Cafe - I gotta' call BS on this one. You are 100% wrong. Thomas never wrote that she wanted to punch Houston because she (Houston) would not "buy into Geno's scheme" and that is FACT not your misread.
If what I posted is beyond your comprehension than read the book. Thomas said she wanted to punch Houston because she (Houston) was not responding to the help they (Thomas and Montgomery) were offering. That particular comment was very clear and I don't see how it could be misinterpreted. Scotch maybe?

once I read that... I understood what I was dealing with! (throwing my hands up)

and thanks for the clarification

 

[Cafe Poliziano]

KML and Heather need to be leaders. Surprised? They knows how to play ball and makes efforts to make plays all the time (I don't mean they are the only one who play hard, no, I said "make an effort to make plays all the time").
Since that won't happen, I'll take over the role and here is what I say:

Geno - play Heather, don't play zone, play more two bigs at same time, teach how to press and stop dribbler (Sims and Diggins will kill Uconn otherwise), make Tiff the point guard.
Dailey - teach Stef to rebound out of her area, get her have wider base and more balance.
Shea - make Harley carry Stef twice around the gym for every time she walks or carries the ball in a game and it gets called (once for each time it doesn't get called); teach all guards to dribble; make all guards watch ND vs. Baylor game and how ND players used rim/reverse shots to free themselves on drives.
Marissa - teach Stef to be aware of where opposing players are so when she catches ball she doesn't freeze up not knowing what to do, advise Kiah that its ok to get close enough to opponent to get their sweat on her uni.

Stef - lose some weight and get in better shape, spread that butt and those legs out to make space, move, jump.
Tiff - don't step up by making bad plays early and late in games when you teammated hide, go find them; keep working on that mid range game, aim on layups; drive down middle so better angle for dish to bigs.
Doty - you will not play another minute if you pass up another opportunity to fast break or make a move on player isolated one on one from the wing; shoot the Sue/Renee mid range shot more.
KF - stop over passing and putting pressure on other players to make shots, finish, finish, and when in doubt finish.
Hartley - walk = sit; carry ball = sit.
KML - freshman can lead.
Heather - red shirt juniors who know how to play and are effective in what they know how to do and keep at it at all times, can lead; regardless of how the coach uses you against ND or Stanford or anyone else. Playing right is on you, not playing you is on Geno.
Kiah - call Tina.
Lauren - stop playing like a girl, stop dribbling over your shoulders, play like you are trying to win not run the clock, play like team needs you.
Michala - keep at it, seeing signs of getting job done, Bonner was skinny too and she did alright at Auburn.
Banks - watch Dixon defensive tapes, make layups.

When it comes to being a teams leader you are likely more on the spot with your thoughts than some may think. A teams leader must be vocal without diminishing a teammates value to the team, but at the same time make their point about what is not going in the right direction, not always an easy thing to do, but imo must be done.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Husky68 wrote - "Stef - lose some weight and get in better shape, spread that butt and those legs out to make space, move, jump."

Exactly how will spreading one's butt improve defensive posture? Is there a no hands butt spreading technique? If not the defender has both hands occupied in the butt spreading process and won't be able to block shots or rebound.